Black Lives Matter Protest.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

No you don't, as you've just blithely said it is there for all to see, yet not actually linked it - you gave me plenty of dodgy links to establish that the killing of Floyd was done by a racist but none of them actually established that at all...Now you refuse to support your prejudiced claims against me. You've also said you are prejudiced against all policemen... Dude, you are VERY prejudiced indeed!

I could prove it all day long but you won’t admit it or believe so what’s the point. Let’s leave it to the JKB collective to come in and defend you. I am a hypocrite, I have chips on both shoulders, at least I can admit it and see what’s right and wrong.

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Its still not clear who actually build the pyramids.? It might have been " slaves" or it might have been people who were paid and wanted to also be able to go to " the afterlife".   The pyramids are an incredible feat of architecture and its actually not even clear how the hell they manage to build them as they are almost perfect examples of architecture. ( technically ) 

I dunno man I used to build them with Lego when I was 6...

[redjambo]

Just now, Spellczech said:

I dunno man I used to build them with Lego when I was 6...

 

With internal passages and chambers?

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Its still not clear who actually build the pyramids.? It might have been " slaves" or it might have been people who were paid and wanted to also be able to go to " the afterlife".   The pyramids are an incredible feat of architecture and its actually not even clear how the hell they manage to build them as they are almost perfect examples of architecture. ( technically ) 

Nobody can tell for sure, the Egyptians are adamant it wasn’t apparently. They rely heavily on them for tourism, I’m not sure if anyone comes to the UK to see a statue.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I could prove it all day long but you won’t admit it or believe so what’s the point. Let’s leave it to the JKB collective to come in and defend you. I am a hypocrite, I have chips on both shoulders, at least I can admit it and see what’s right and wrong.

Aha you are trying to assert superiority over me with your humbleness. That is very devious and underhand. I don't need the JKB collective to defend me. I am perfectly capable of defending myself but  not against specious and empty accusations, even from self-confessed hypocrites...

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

With internal passages and chambers?

Ya, of course - Lego men need to be able to get in to see their pal the builder (they didn't make Pharoah Legomen in the 70s/80s...). In those days you had to use your imagination with Lego...

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Nobody can tell for sure, the Egyptians are adamant it wasn’t apparently. They rely heavily on them for tourism, I’m not sure if anyone comes to the UK to see a statue.

True we dont have anything as impressive as the Pyramids in the UK.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

True we dont have anything as impressive as the Pyramids in the UK.

Speaking from experience it takes a pretty big ego to build a pyramid, some might even go so far as to say a God-complex...😁

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

Who?

😂

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

😂

Very informative, cheers.

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, The Brow said:

Most racists use lines like 'this country is finished'. 

 

We have one properly outed racist here. Insinuating Enoch Powell was correct ffs. Silly *****. 

 

 

Indeed, welcome back. Sorry for being a lockdown arsehole in the past.

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Very informative, cheers.

I went through this for 20 minutes today with FA and the Guv, I come back from my voluntary job driving essential supplies for disabled black kids and there you are asking the same questions.  If you can't be bothered catching up with the thread at least have the good grace not to mug me off. 

[SE16 3LN]

26 minutes ago, The Brow said:

Most racists use lines like 'this country is finished'. 

 

We have one properly outed racist here. Insinuating Enoch Powell was correct ffs. Silly *****. 

 

 

Never mind, the Welsh scouts are defending his statue.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

I went through this for 20 minutes today with FA and the Guv, I come back from my voluntary job driving essential supplies for disabled black kids and there you are asking the same questions.  If you can't be bothered catching up with the thread at least have the good grace not to mug me off. 

I can't see who you've named as those condoning the killing, if you have and I've missed it I apologies, so, who have condoned the killing, a quick answer and you can get back to polishing your halo.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Has anyone associated with BLM suggested taking down buildings? 

 

On TV earlier there were two paid up members of thgae Gammonati throwing up straw men like their lives depended on it. They said that if Baden-Powell's statue was removed then the Pyramids and the Colosseum would have to be taken down too.

Eh, naw.

Gammonati? A tad racist maybe?

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Speaking from experience it takes a pretty big ego to build a pyramid, some might even go so far as to say a God-complex...😁

 

[The Brow]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Gammonati? A tad racist maybe?

 

The Gammons are not a race 

[SE16 3LN]

5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I can't see who you've named as those condoning the killing, if you have and I've missed it I apologies, so, who have condoned the killing, a quick answer and you can get back to polishing your halo.

Maybe take a break, or **** off, its up to you.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

Maybe take a break, or **** off, its up to you.

No ta, I'll decide what and when I do things, now, who have condoned the killing?

[Ray Gin]

45 minutes ago, The Brow said:

Most racists use lines like 'this country is finished'. 

 

We have one properly outed racist here. Insinuating Enoch Powell was correct ffs. Silly *****. 

 

 

 

[Beni]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

So far the proof that it was not a racially-motivated crime is that there is no information out there yet which indicates that it was a racially-motivated crime!!!! Surely that is obvious?

 

I find it bizarre that only others can decide if I am racist or not!!! Is that the same for everyone? If me and a fellow white person moved to the Moon to live. Would he be the one to decide if I am living there as a racist?

 

Here's what the CPS says about it.

 

The CPS uses definitions agreed with the National Police Chiefs' Council to identify racist or religious incidents/crimes and to monitor the decisions and outcomes:

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race"

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

 

[Spellczech]

54 minutes ago, The Brow said:

Most racists use lines like 'this country is finished'. 

 

We have one properly outed racist here. Insinuating Enoch Powell was correct ffs. Silly *****. 

 

 

Hmmn Have you read the "Rivers of Blood" speech? I've never been of the opinion that Powell was a racist - have you ever heard of a racist who bothered to learn 14 languages? - rather he was conservative as well as a Conservative. He was resistant to and afraid of change as it was an unknown prospect to him. Many people get like that as they get older. It's part of human nature. The Conservative Party is built upon it.

 

What is being waged at the moment is a culture war, whereby a few extreme left agitators and activists (basically zealots) are making a lot of noise about things that most of us are not really that concerned by, but it chips away at the history and identity of the nation. The question is whether this is for good or ill? If I was a tourist visiting the UK and went to Plymouth and instead of a statue of Sir Francis Drake I saw a statue of Nelson Mandela or Frank Bruno would I think, yeah cool, now for a cream tea...? The one thing that would not happen is that I would jump onto the internet and read all about Sir Francis Drake, for good or bad...Personally I'd rather hear about Nelson Mandela when visiting S Africa than Glasgow. Frank Bruno, well he was kinda cool in the 80s but I think Anthony Joshua is a bit more current - do I need a statue of either? I think I'll leave that debate to the City of Philapelphia and where they have  statues of boxers Joe Frazier and er, Rocky Balboa

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[Beni]

20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Gammonati? A tad racist maybe?

 

The only people who could possibly find it offensive would be fully paid up Gammonati members...

 

            

[Spellczech]

13 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Here's what the CPS says about it.

 

The CPS uses definitions agreed with the National Police Chiefs' Council to identify racist or religious incidents/crimes and to monitor the decisions and outcomes:

"Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race"

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

 

But that does not preclude me from deciding for myself if I am racist or not. Indeed, to the extent that only I can choose what to say or do dictates that I myself am the true arbiter of whether I am racist or not. The only exception to this is people with Tourettes Syndrome surely, and even then there must be some sort of external stimulus or experience which would make someone with Tourettes shout racist insults?

[Cade]

UK Demographics.

White 87.2%

Black 3%

Indian 2.3%

Pakistani 1.9%

Mixed 2%

Other 3.6%

 

Get a bit of perspective.

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

But that does not preclude me from deciding for myself if I am racist or not. Indeed, to the extent that only I can choose what to say or do dictates that I myself am the true arbiter of whether I am racist or not. The only exception to this is people with Tourettes Syndrome surely, and even then there must be some sort of external stimulus or experience which would make someone with Tourettes shout racist insults?

 

It certainly doesn't preclude you from having your own opinion, but taking account what I posted above, arguing that you are the only true arbiter of whether you are a racist or not is rather fanciful.

[Spellczech]

7 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

It certainly doesn't preclude you from having your own opinion, but taking account what I posted above, arguing that you are the only true arbiter of whether you are a racist or not is rather fanciful.

Only if you believe people can be unknowingly racist. The law is merely designed to allow them to deny intent but still be found guilty.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[Francis Albert]

53 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

The Gammons are not a race 

Insulting people by reference to their skin colour is a bit frowned upon in other contexts.

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Only if you believe people can be unknowingly racist

 

 

Said this in a different thread, hearing a Chinese takeaway referred to in a way that rhymes with slinky, I never thought "well there's an out and out racist." They were being ignorantly racist. There's no debate there. Not intending racist harm but still causing it is pretty common. Being aware that it can happen and actually listening to the people affected, and how, is how you end it.

 

That's the basic difference between someone who's anti-racism and someone who is not.

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, The Brow said:

 

The Gammons are not a race 

Neither are the Scots

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Said this in a different thread, hearing a Chinese takeaway referred to in a way that rhymes with slinky, I never thought "well there's an out and out racist." They were being ignorantly racist. There's no debate there. Not intending racist harm but still causing it is pretty common. Being aware that it can happen and actually listening to the people affected, and how, is how you end it.

 

That's the basic difference between someone who's anti-racism and someone who is not.

How many people have been successfully prosecuted for calling a Chinese takeaway a word that rhymes with slinky? Next time you hear it, tell the police and come back to us.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Spellczech said:

How many people have been successfully prosecuted for calling a Chinese takeaway a word that rhymes with slinky? Next time you hear it, tell the police and come back to us.

 

You really need to start reading, dude.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Its still not clear who actually build the pyramids.? It might have been " slaves" or it might have been people who were paid and wanted to also be able to go to " the afterlife".   The pyramids are an incredible feat of architecture and its actually not even clear how the hell they manage to build them as they are almost perfect examples of architecture. ( technically ) 

 

It's been known who the Pyramid builders were for over 20 years now, since the late 1990's, they were ordinary Egyptians who were neither slaves nor free men but were obliged to give their time & labor to the Pharaoh for projects such as the building of the pyramids, whilst most probably were not paid in the form of money they were looked after in return for their service as they were well fed, they had a rich diet of meat and plenty of beer and it looks like they even received medical care because skeletons have been found with broken bones tended to and fixed, for example.

 

Here is a good summary of the Pyramid Builders.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/history/the-pyramid-builders-village-in-egypt.aspx

[Spellczech]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

You really need to start reading, dude.

Why? He quoted a legal definition. I asked for a legal precedent to back up his example.

 

The law may imply that ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, but I noted the purpose of that definition above. It is so that someone can still be found guilty whilst denying intention.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[Francis Albert]

43 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The only people who could possibly find it offensive would be fully paid up Gammonati members...

 

            

And only black people can find the N word offensive?

My skin colour bears some resemblance to gammon. So if the term offends me ...?

 

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And only black people can find the N word offensive?

My skin colour bears some resemblance to gammon. So if the term offends me ...?

 

Legally you have the right to call him racist. Up to you if you want to take this further.

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Why? He quoted a legal definition. I asked for a legal precedent to back up his example.

 

A quick Google reveals the CPS made 9500 successful prosecutions using that definition last year, plenty of info out there if you want to look for it.

[Beni]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And only black people can find the N word offensive?

My skin colour bears some resemblance to gammon. So if the term offends me ...?

 

 

...you've proven my point.

Thanks 👍

 

[Spellczech]

Just now, fancy a brew said:

 

A quick Google reveals the CPS made 9500 successful prosecutions using that definition last year, plenty of info out there if you want to look for it.

Ok I'll take your word for that. However, do you believe that the 9500 people who said the term really didn't know it is offensive to Chinese people. Indeed, if that was the case who made the complaints. Do they ask their Chinese friends, "let's get some food in, You want to call the [word that rhymes with slinky] or shall I?" I suspect that the vast majority if not all of these instances the word was directed at people, not takeaway restaurants...?

[Pasquale for King]

58 minutes ago, weehammy said:

‘Many occasions’? What are you - a crime reporter? If so, you obviously weren’t there when unarmed police officers tackled armed criminals and terrorists and, sometimes, lost their lives. To characterise tens of thousands of cops with that sort of lazy stereotyping is exactly what racists do in an ethnic context.

I didn’t mean to denigrate them all, there’s bound to many good ones.  Just someone who’s been around the police in various ways, you have no idea if those unarmed police officers were good people in other ways. A bit like how you and others bring up George Floyds crimes but fail to mention how he seems to have been well liked by his friends and family. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Ok I'll take your word for that. However, do you believe that the 9500 people who said the term really didn't know it is offensive to Chinese people. Indeed, if that was the case who made the complaints. Do they ask their Chinese friends, "let's get some food in, You want to call the [word that rhymes with slinky] or shall I?" I suspect that the vast majority if not all of these instances the word was directed at people, not takeaway restaurants...?

 

Just to clarify the 9500 is all hate crimes. You can accept the CPS definition of racism or not, your choice. I just thought it might be helpful for you to know that it's different from yours.

[JudyJudyJudy]

23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It's been known who the Pyramid builders were for over 20 years now, since the late 1990's, they were ordinary Egyptians who were neither slaves nor free men but were obliged to give their time & labor to the Pharaoh for projects such as the building of the pyramids, whilst most probably were not paid in the form of money they were looked after in return for their service as they were well fed, they had a rich diet of meat and plenty of beer and it looks like they even received medical care because skeletons have been found with broken bones tended to and fixed, for example.

 

Here is a good summary of the Pyramid Builders.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/history/the-pyramid-builders-village-in-egypt.aspx

Thanks for that link. Ill read it later. I'm always had an interest in Egyptology and even thought about studying it at Uni but life got in the way.  Channel 4 recently aired a good documentary about the Pyramids . Cant recall the name now. 

[Spellczech]

Just now, fancy a brew said:

 

Just to clarify the 9500 is all hate crimes. You can accept the CPS definition of racism or not, your choice. I just thought it might be helpful for you to know that it's different from yours.

Where do you get that I don't accept the CPS definition. What I don't accept is the idea that people are ignorantly racist. Not in this day and age. You gave what you considered to be an example of ignorant racism - I disagreed and say that the word is offensive to people not restaurants. Calling a restaurant by that term is a lazy abbreviation - the "Informal" below. Very different from using it as a pejorative or derogatory term for a Chinese person - the "Offensive" below. I strongly doubt that any court would find that a restaurant can be racially abused, even on Trip Advisor.

 

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Where do you get that I don't accept the CPS definition. What I don't accept is the idea that people are ignorantly racist. Not in this day and age. You gave what you considered to be an example of ignorant racism - I disagreed and say that the word is offensive to people not restaurants. Calling a restaurant by that term is a lazy abbreviation - the "Informal" below. Very different from using it as a pejorative or derogatory term for a Chinese person - the "Offensive" below. I strongly doubt that any court would find that a restaurant can be racially abused, even on Trip Advisor.

 

 

Read back the thread and what I've posted, you're getting a bit confused.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

But that does not preclude me from deciding for myself if I am racist or not. Indeed, to the extent that only I can choose what to say or do dictates that I myself am the true arbiter of whether I am racist or not. The only exception to this is people with Tourettes Syndrome surely, and even then there must be some sort of external stimulus or experience which would make someone with Tourettes shout racist insults?

 

Where I disagree, and this will influence basically everything we think about this topic, is that I believe racism should be judged by how it was received, not by the intent of who delivers it. So any of us could be inadvertently racist and not seen maliciously. 

[Spellczech]

15 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Read back the thread and what I've posted, you're getting a bit confused.

Eh?  I just summarised what you said and what bit I disagree with. You quoted it! Where is it wrong? 

 

The law does not convict people for ignorance. It simply says that ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If the prisons are full of stupid people it is because they were not clever enough to escape justice for breaking the law...

 

The law does not believe people can be ignorantly racist. For the third time, it is phrased the way it is so that people cannot deny intention to offend by taking the intention away from the offender. It assumes  people know when they are being racist...because they do.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech

[Beni]

13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Eh?  I just summarised what you said and what bit I disagree with. You quoted it! Where is it wrong? 

 

Nah, you summarised what Justin Z said, like I say, have a wee look back and see where you're getting confused.

Edited June 11, 2020 by fancy a brew
Sp

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

No ta, I'll decide what and when I do things, now, who have condoned the killing?

As you can't be arsed reading back, nobody that I know on JKB, although there are some using fairly shite deflection tactics. Around the world Millions. Is that clear enough or do you want names and addresses?

[Spellczech]

12 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Nah, you summarised what Justin Z said, like I say, have a wee look back and see where your getting confused.

Ok there are two discussions going on. Anyway I made my point.

[Dawnrazor]

12 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

As you can't be arsed reading back, nobody that I know on JKB, although there are some using fairly shite deflection tactics. Around the world Millions. Is that clear enough or do you want names and addresses?

I read back and couldn't see anyone condoning the killing as you said, I asked you to point out where someone had and you couldn't and you've acted like an arse, so no, I don't want "names and addresses" as you couldn't produced your own claims I very much doubt you could get the names and addresses.