SE16 3LN Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Funny In Love Thy Neighbour the white man always ended up looking like a dick. Its a matter of huge debate. For me it was radical to have black characters in a sitcom, let alone characters who were mainly seen to be more intelligent (see also rising damp) than their white counterparts. OFAH has a plethora of language that would seem to be incorrect when judged today, and the fact that black characters were often cast as criminals would also struggle to get past the PC police. However, they usually explored another side to these characters at some point in the series. Tony Osoba in Porridge would be an even better example. Personally I think it was start of a process towards tackling racism rather than an example of Racism itself, but others may disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Why do we get to have a say in whether the killing was racist or not? Surely black people should judge that. It's for the oppressed to say they're oppressed. And millions of them are saying that right now. Seems a bit churlish at the least for a handful of white guys on this thread to tell them "nah, actually, that wasn't a racist killing". Edited June 11, 2020 by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, doctor jambo said: Waiting for every pope statue to be hauled down due to the crusades every crucifix and church due to the genocides in the Old Testament and Manchester City ground turned to dust due to their owners homophobic persecutions and perpetuation of modern slavery and misogyny Has anyone associated with BLM suggested taking down buildings? On TV earlier there were two paid up members of the Gammonati throwing up straw men like their lives depended on it. They said that if Baden-Powell's statue was removed then the Pyramids and the Colosseum would have to be taken down too. Eh, naw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, fancy a brew said: Has anyone associated with BLM suggested taking down buildings? On TV earlier there were two paid up members of the Gammonati throwing up straw men like their lives depended on it. They said that if Baden-Powell's statue was removed then the Pyramids and the Colosseum would have to be taken down too. Eh, naw. British Lives Matters on a poster. Folk travelled from Wales to protect it as it was supposed to come down today. Naughty naughty. This guy was raging about it. Edited June 11, 2020 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Thanks for the timely reminder, red. It's always reassuring to know that the good guys are looking out for us. 👍 Ach we're just being argumentative *******s, SE. I'd blame the lockdown blues but we're probably just argumentative *******s. 👍 I'm the same mate. Sometimes I need to remember that we've all got a bit extra to argue about though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said: FFS, Yes, if they're defending the killing I'm referring to them. Is that clearer? Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 hours ago, DETTY29 said: But by number of population per million (2015 through to 2020) Blacks 30 Hispanics 23 White 12 Other 4 Can you do the same for crimes committed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, graygo said: Can you do the same for crimes committed? Why? More black people commit crimes, as poor people do in any country, what are you trying to get at? Spit it out, you’re in good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 hours ago, kila said: Even with the race part removed you have a police officer acting as jury, judge and executioner. Something common in the US. If you want law and order, first make sure your law enforcement is in order which sadly is lacking in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Why? More black people commit crimes, as poor people do in any country, what are you trying to get at? Spit it out, you’re in good company. Well you've pretty much said it for me. You make the point that more blacks are killed by police per million and I'm pointing out that more crimes are committed by blacks per million, stands to reason that their chances of having interaction with the police are higher. And yes, I'm well aware of the link between the number of black people and the poorer in society. 21 hours ago, graygo said: Maybe a reason for that. The focus is too much on the colour of the skin, most crimes are committed by poorer classes and blacks make up a higher percentage of the poor unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: If you want law and order, first make sure your law enforcement is in order which sadly is lacking in the US. Is there any police force in the world that’s in order and trusted by all its citizens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, graygo said: Well you've pretty much said it for me. You make the point that more blacks are killed by police per million and I'm pointing out that more crimes are committed by blacks per million, stands to reason that their chances of having interaction with the police are higher. And yes, I'm well aware of the link between the number of black people and the poorer in society. You said that earlier in the thread, it’s a fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, graygo said: Can you do the same for crimes committed? Sorry, don't have that info. I was provided it on a WhatsApp discussion when the other diagrm was put up. It would need to go down to level of crime too. Getting shot for running away from a minor crime (even one you commited) compared to being shot by police after you have killed 20 school kids is still one black and one one white killed by the police. Or conversely if a terrorist has been shot in the act of carying out a horrendous act, if the terrorist is non white, another religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) More black people are arrested and prosecuted for crimes than whites Doesn't mean black people actually commit more crimes. You have to look deeper as the situation is more nuanced and racism more ingrained than it looks at first glance. Edited June 11, 2020 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Is there any police force in the world that’s in order and trusted by all its citizens? No, but I have far more faith in ours than theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Cade said: More black people are prosecuted for crimes than whites Doesn't mean black people actually commit more crimes. Need more info. Where about? Numbers of those prosecuted. Numbers of crimes committed by colour. By the way I'm not even remotely trying to justify what happened the other week (or what happens on a daily basis) I just like to see stats to back up claims like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Stats in England and Wales. https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/courts-sentencing-and-tribunals/prosecutions-and-convictions/latest#by-ethnicity-and-sex-of-defendant Whites the highest conviction rate, so innocent black people and minority ethnic groups are more likely to be wrongfully arrested and charged. Edited June 11, 2020 by Ray Gin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Stats in England and Wales. https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/courts-sentencing-and-tribunals/prosecutions-and-convictions/latest#by-ethnicity-and-sex-of-defendant Whites the highest conviction rate, so innocent black people and minority ethnic groups are more likely to be wrongfully arrested and charged. Courts scared to convict blacks in case they get labelled as racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Why do we get to have a say in whether the killing was racist or not? Surely black people should judge that. It's for the oppressed to say they're oppressed. And millions of them are saying that right now. Seems a bit churlish at the least for a handful of white guys on this thread to tell them "nah, actually, that wasn't a racist killing". It's for a court to decide based on evidence!! FFS... I assume the US has laws relating to racially aggravated crimes, but as far as I am aware the policeman has been charged with second degree homicide. Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Depends on what you see as racist, you have a different view of that and that’s fine. I don't think it is that at all. It is simply that I am not willing to pre-judge the policeman based on social media and internet articles, which don't even establish what you say they establish, whereas you are. That is not a different view on what is racism -I'm pretty confident I know exactly what racism is - Our difference is simply prejudiced vs unprejudiced... Based on the evidence I've seen, the video, Floyd was killed unlawfully and second degree murder looks like the correct charge. Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Is there any police force in the world that’s in order and trusted by all its citizens? I’d say Police Scotland is in order and trusted by the majority. Police in UK Police by consent of the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: No, but I have far more faith in ours than theirs. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, spirt of 98 said: I’d say Police Scotland is in order and trusted by the majority. Police in UK Police by consent of the public. I didn’t ask about a majority. Most folk that have dealt with them or know or any police officers might say different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, spirt of 98 said: I’d say Police Scotland is in order and trusted by the majority. Police in UK Police by consent of the public. The police in Glasgow are tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Spellczech said: It's for a court to decide based on evidence!! FFS... I assume the US has laws relating to racially aggravated crimes, but as far as I am aware the policeman has been charged with second degree homicide. It's up to a court to decide? Up to a point, I suppose. But then by the same argument, it was up to a police officer to decide who needed a knee in the neck for nine minutes. If we don't question these processes, we're helping deny systemic and structural racism. And millions of black people all over the world are questioning them right now. My point was, who are we, as a bunch of white men, to tell them they're wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: The police in Glasgow are tops. To be fair the Police in Glasgow are saints compared to the States. The Police in Glasgow are let’s say robust but am sure their hard skin builds up after dealing with Old Firm fans for years. Edited June 11, 2020 by spirt of 98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I don't think it is that at all. It is simply that I am not willing to pre-judge the policeman based on social media and internet articles, which don't even establish what you say they establish, whereas you are. That is not a different view on what is racism -I'm pretty confident I know exactly what racism is - Our difference is simply prejudiced vs unprejudiced... Based on the evidence I've seen, the video, Floyd was killed unlawfully and second degree murder looks like the correct charge. I’m not sure what other proof I can give you to show why I believe him to be a racist, just as much you have no proof that he isn’t. Whether you know what constitutes being a racist is for other to decide not you are I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: I didn’t ask about a majority. Most folk that have dealt with them or know or any police officers might say different. You're asking if there is any country where the criminals trust the police? There is some bonkers stuff on here today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: It's up to a court to decide? Up to a point, I suppose. But then by the same argument, it was up to a police officer to decide who needed a knee in the neck for nine minutes. If we don't question these processes, we're helping deny systemic and structural racism. And millions of black people all over the world are questioning them right now. My point was, who are we, as a bunch of white men, to tell them they're wrong? Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: I didn’t ask about a majority. Most folk that have dealt with them or know or any police officers might say different. That probably because they’ve done something wrong and blame the Police for doing their jobs and catching them. Never been charged in my life and can I say any interactions I have had with the Police they have been fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Spellczech said: You're asking if there is any country where the criminals trust the police? There is some bonkers stuff on here today! Not just criminals though, I certainly don’t and I’ve met a fair few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: I’m not sure what other proof I can give you to show why I believe him to be a racist, just as much you have no proof that he isn’t. Whether you know what constitutes being a racist is for other to decide not you are I. So far the proof that it was not a racially-motivated crime is that there is no information out there yet which indicates that it was a racially-motivated crime!!!! Surely that is obvious? I find it bizarre that only others can decide if I am racist or not!!! Is that the same for everyone? If me and a fellow white person moved to the Moon to live. Would he be the one to decide if I am living there as a racist? Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, spirt of 98 said: That probably because they’ve done something wrong and blame the Police for doing their jobs and catching them. Never been charged in my life and can I say any interactions I have had with the Police they have been fair. Not at all, I’ve only been caught once and it wasn’t their fault. As I grow older and have experienced them in different ways I see them differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Spellczech said: So far the proof that it was not a racially-motivated crime is that there is no information out there yet which indicates that it was a racially-motivated crime!!!! Surely that is obvious? I find it bizarre that only others can decide if I am racist or not!!! Is that the same for everyone? No I have given you what I believe to be proof, you don’t. The law decides who’s racist not you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said: To be fair the Police in Glasgow are saints compared to the States. The Police in Glasgow are let’s say robust but am sure their hard skin builds up after dealing with Old Firm fans for years. They also treat fans outside the OF with utter disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said: Not at all, I’ve only been caught once and it wasn’t their fault. As I grow older and have experienced them in different ways I see them differently. What have the Police done to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: No I have given you what I believe to be proof, you don’t. The law decides who’s racist not you. I've never been told by the law if I am racist or not? Does that mean I am racist or not racist? As a prejudiced person, can you help? Since you have pre-empted the law by deciding that this killing was racist... Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirt of 98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: They also treat fans outside the OF with utter disrespect. To be fair never spoken to the Police at the football, that must be because I just go and watch the game and when I am told this roads closed walk this way or what ever I just follow the instruction and don’t cause them hassle. I’ve seen loads of folk arguing etc about road closure etc like they’ve just done it for a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Spellczech said: I've never been told by the law if I am racist or not? Does that mean I am racist or not racist? As a prejudiced person, can you help? If you say racist things but don’t think they’re racist would that stand up in court as a defence? There’s a few on here that don’t realise and you might just be one of them. You don’t even realise you are prejudiced 🙈, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, MR INCREDIBLE said: 2 of our cops attacked in Hackney last night by feral f*****g savages but all we hear on the news this morning is about ripping down statues all brought about by the death of a drug fuelled career criminal from another continent. This country is finished. A certain politician told us 50 years ago what would happen in this country and nobody listened. I know people get annoyed when the racist tag gets thrown around but there's a balance. Real racism will continue unabated as long as good people don't call it out. And claiming Enoch Powell was right is racist in my book. No debate. This is a racist post. Edit- should say I'm assuming that's who you meant, unless you're being really cryptic (deliberately so in that case to get folk riled). Edited June 11, 2020 by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said: To be fair never spoken to the Police at the football, that must be because I just go and watch the game and when I am told this roads closed walk this way or what ever I just follow the instruction and don’t cause them hassle. I’ve seen loads of folk arguing etc about road closure etc like they’ve just done it for a laugh. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Pasquale for King said: If you say racist things but don’t think they’re racist would that stand up in court as a defence? There’s a few on here that don’t realise and you might just be one of them. You don’t even realise you are prejudiced 🙈, Of course not, but I've never been to court since I studied law...Do you have any support for your claim that I am pre-judiced? Sounds like you are now being prejudiced against me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said: What have the Police done to you? I’ve seen them on many occasions act in a way that doesn’t befit what we hold them up to be. Useless and incompetent, dodgy and criminal in some instances. I’m sure most people would have had the same experiences as a working class person. I’ve met many and I wouldn’t trust a single one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Spellczech said: Of course not, but I've never been to court since I studied law...Do you have any support for your claim that I am pre-judiced? Sounds like you are now being prejudiced against me... The proof is there for all to see. I am being prejudiced against you, but I have a good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Pasquale for King said: I’ve seen them on many occasions act in a way that doesn’t befit what we hold them up to be. Useless and incompetent, dodgy and criminal in some instances. I’m sure most people would have had the same experiences as a working class person. I’ve met many and I wouldn’t trust a single one of them. That's weird. I know one policeman and he is a decent bloke as far as I know...are you perhaps a criminal or have criminal tendencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Funny In Love Thy Neighbour the white man always ended up looking like a dick. Yeah that's true. But it still perpetuated stereotypes ( black and white i suppose looking back now) But even then it was still awful. I couldn't stand Jack Smethurst...Always had a leery creepy expression on his face....I think he is still around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: The proof is there for all to see. I am being prejudiced against you, but I have a good reason. No you don't, as you've just blithely said it is there for all to see, yet not actually linked it - you gave me plenty of dodgy links to establish that the killing of Floyd was done by a racist but none of them actually established that at all...Now you refuse to support your prejudiced claims against me. You've also said you are prejudiced against all policemen... Dude, you are VERY prejudiced indeed! Edited June 11, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, fancy a brew said: Has anyone associated with BLM suggested taking down buildings? On TV earlier there were two paid up members of the Gammonati throwing up straw men like their lives depended on it. They said that if Baden-Powell's statue was removed then the Pyramids and the Colosseum would have to be taken down too. Eh, naw. Its still not clear who actually build the pyramids.? It might have been " slaves" or it might have been people who were paid and wanted to also be able to go to " the afterlife". The pyramids are an incredible feat of architecture and its actually not even clear how the hell they manage to build them as they are almost perfect examples of architecture. ( technically ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brow Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Most racists use lines like 'this country is finished'. We have one properly outed racist here. Insinuating Enoch Powell was correct ffs. Silly *****. Edited June 11, 2020 by The Brow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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