SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[1874robbo]

2 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

So Hearts goals in order of priority are...

 

1. Play SPL football next season because we have been evicted by Covid rather than sport.  Solution : An interim 14 team SPL that needs the support of SPFL members, who all have self interest at heart.

 

2. Play Championship football next season  thus accepting the eviction after some appropriate pay-off/ court award. Problem:   Covid May prevent competition and jeopardise league.

 

3. Reconstruct the whole damn thing! Addressing the duopoly and make the game in Scotland more attractive.

 

So 1 needs the support of the members and the threat of court action has not yet resulted in that support albeit discussions are on going even though unlikely to result in 1 occurring.

 

2 is the next best solution for Hearts, and JA’s money is the mechanism by which 2 happens. So a donation to help Scottish Football is really is the guarantee of competitive football for Hearts next season - clever!

 

3 is what must happen after 1 or 2, as undoubtedly some clubs (from all 4 divisions) will go bust - JA’s money is not there to solve ‘hand-to-mouth’ existence some clubs operate under.

So if the JA money is not there to solve “hand to mouth existence as you put it, and I hope it isn’t tbh how is point 2 then “clever”? 
clubs in the championship having their Covid testing paid for them whilst great news for them I don’t see how it will allow a lot of these clubs who are struggling to play a full season BCD.

[Beast Boy]

The Anderson money may well be pledged unconditionally, but what happens when it’s spent?

 

He donates money to causes where he sees something that he likes in terms of principles and morals. That’s why he’s been helping Hearts, because Budge has shown all of these things.

 

How greedy vindictive harpies like the fat gammon-faced money-grabber at Ayr respond to that philanthropy will no doubt determine whether or not he puts any more money their way afterwards. I’d suggest snidely having a pop at the woman who brought those investors in to Scottish football in the first place might not be a great starting position... 🤔

 

Anderson has pledged to keep helping us for five years. He likes what Hearts are all about under Budge. Let’s just see if he feels the same about Ayr, Clyde, Ross County, Stenhousemuir, Celtic, Hibs or Dundee. 
 

 

“It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off... “

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

how is it clever to make the monies unconditional? Putting aside that it should have been conditional on no clubs being unfairly relegated! It should have been conditional on no funds going to SPL, and conditional on all championship clubs guaranteeing they can fulfill fixtures. 
 

feels like we’ve gone all in with a pair of 8’s and hoped everyone would fold and see sense

 

Has Anderson said the money is unconditional? 

[SUTOL]

3 minutes ago, Deevers said:

If we land up in court with them and the Championship is not up and running I reckon they are going to have to have a very substantial figure at their disposal to cover their liability to us and costs.  At the end of the day it’s the clubs that will suffer. There’s a growing number now that I won’t be sorry to see fail and fade into obvlivion. 

 

£28 million due from Sky. I'm sure that should cover it. 

[No longer active]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

how is it clever to make the monies unconditional? Putting aside that it should have been conditional on no clubs being unfairly relegated! It should have been conditional on no funds going to SPL, and conditional on all championship clubs guaranteeing they can fulfill fixtures. 
 

feels like we’ve gone all in with a pair of 8’s and hoped everyone would fold and see sense

The JA money is purely providing the funds to ensure the appropriate testing at the lower levels to ensure that clubs who would normally not be able to afford testing can and thus play next season. 
 

Apparently ND briefed the SPL teams what the money was donated for.

 

Clubs which are not viable will still go bust and thus reconstruction will happen after Covid has been dealt with

Edited June 2, 2020 by George Cowie

[Anything2]

The whole 'would anyone care if it were Hamilton or St Mirren' chat is such an illogical argument. It's like he is saying that because they wouldn't have the clout to defend themselves he would shaft them, and so Hearts should accept a shafting because other teams would have to if it were them. Or you could just stop shafting teams unfairly? 

[Darth Sidious]

I find it hard to believe why Budge, who knows we are getting shafted, would take an active role in bringing money to Doncaster and the SPFL.  Surely she is not niave enough to think it will change Hibs or Ayr United's vote. 

 

As soon as the money is in the bank, next order of business will be to give Celtic their fixture list.  Hearts are not even a consideration with Doncaster, etc. 

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Has Anderson said the money is unconditional? 

the SPFL have said it is yes.

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

The JA money is purely providing the funds to ensure the appropriate testing at the lower levels to ensure that clubs who would normally not be able to afford testing can and thus play next season. 
 

Apparently ND briefed the SPL teams what the money was donated for.

Makes sense, but the SPFL keep saying it’s for the 42 clubs.

[Deevers]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

£28 million due from Sky. I'm sure that should cover it. 

That would do us just fine. 😁

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Anything2 said:

The whole 'would anyone care if it were Hamilton or St Mirren' chat is such an illogical argument. It's like he is saying that because they wouldn't have the clout to defend themselves he would shaft them, and so Hearts should accept a shafting because other teams would have to if it were them. Or you could just stop shafting teams unfairly? 

Also, the opposite is true. If it was St Mirren or Hamilton in our position, folk wouldn’t be gleefully insisting they should be expelled. It’s BECAUSE it’s Hearts, that folk are so insistent on us being ‘punished’. 

[No longer active]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

Makes sense, but the SPFL keep saying it’s for the 42 clubs.

It will be because the SPL clubs will benefit from Covid tests being paid for too! The Sky pot won’t have to provide so their precious prize money won’t be diminished to pay for the lower leagues.

 

It also ensures 9 other Championship clubs for us to compete against!

[Anything2]

1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Also, the opposite is true. If it was St Mirren or Hamilton in our position, folk wouldn’t be gleefully insisting they should be expelled. It’s BECAUSE it’s Hearts, that folk are so insistent on us being ‘punished’. 

Absolutely agree with that also. They seem to think that our extra budget means we deserve to be punished for having a bad season and don't deserve the chance to save our selves during the remaining fixtures. No way people would be happy with plucky Hamilton being denied a fair chance at survival given how hard they had worked for it all season. 

[Whatever]

Just now, George Cowie said:

 

It also ensures 9 other Championship clubs for us to compete against!

I’d be surprised. 
 

There will still be clubs in the Championship who say they cannot play bcd.

 

Some sort of forced reconstruction will still be required for a Championship campaign to complete.

[MCW1976]

13 hours ago, communist said:

 

In an unprecedented time with an unprecedented case?  Not sure. 

 

Donald findlay defended rangers in the ebt case, no doubt knowing it would fail, as one example of QCs defending a sinking ship. 

 

It could only bring reputational damage if it was a supposed clear cut, easy case, this won't be, it would drag on for ages, and at huge expense, that's from Ann's own mouth.

 

 

I hear you, mate.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a law firm taking on all and any case because money is money (to them). I guess some firms body swerve certain cases, as it doesn’t fit into their business model?

 

Who knows?

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

It will be because the SPL clubs will benefit from Covid tests being paid for too! The Sky pot won’t have to provide so their precious prize money won’t be diminished to pay for the lower leagues.

 

It also ensures 9 other Championship clubs for us to compete against!

I’m aware how it benefits the SPL - how on earth does it benefit hearts in our current fight ? why on earth would a hearts fan, Ann Budge friend help the likes of Celtic, rangers, hibs, stmirren to pay for their testing . Why do we care of the SPL clubs are hit in the pocket

Edited June 2, 2020 by kingantti1874

[SUTOL]

10 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

the SPFL have said it is yes.

 

Where have they said that? I can't see it on their website or their twitter. 

[MCW1976]

17 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

Who said it was ? We appear to be doing alot of donkey work for no benefit when other clubs have sat on their arse and will now receive a bailout.

Yes, but that’s separate from the philanthropic gesture.

 

[rip van tinkle]

Weirdly this money almost guarantees we will be in the championship next season, anything else will be seen as a bribe 

[No longer active]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

I’m aware how it benefits the SPL - how on earth does it benefit hearts in our current fight ? why on earth would a hearts fan, Ann Budge friend help the likes of Celtic, rangers, hibs, stmirren to pay for their testing . 

Because it’s not Hearts’ money and it is the right thing to do IF you want the perception that there are no strings attached. It is the difference between life and death for the lower teams 

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’m aware how it benefits the SPL - how on earth does it benefit hearts in our current fight ? why on earth would a hearts fan, Ann Budge friend help the likes of Celtic, rangers, hibs, stmirren to pay for their testing . Why do we care of the SPL clubs are hit in the pocket

AB said it was to help the lower leagues but looks like that has changed.  At the end of the day, it’s not her money. 

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

Where have they said that? I can't see it on their website or their twitter. 

widely reported after yesterday’s video call.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, rip van tinkle said:

Weirdly this money almost guarantees we will be in the championship next season, anything else will be seen as a bribe 

I think that is the point of this - to ensure we have a Championship to play in.  Although it doesn’t do that - if some clubs can’t afford to pay their players with no income it doesn’t really matter if they have free Covid testing.  They’ll have to reconstruct the lower leagues if there’s any  chance of getting 10 teams in the Championship.

[jamboinglasgow]

21 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

I'm surprised no one has picked up on the misogynistic undertones of Lachlan Cameron's interview... "Smug and condescending" are surely just code words for I don't like a woman having an opinion or trying to tell me what to do.

 

its funny I just saw that and was thinking that. A man who every year gets a topless woman with the Ayr top painted on to advertise their strip. I am starting to wonder if misogyny is playing part in the words and actions of chairmen (and managers.) As you say that wording is definately giving that impression.

[Whatever]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’m aware how it benefits the SPL - how on earth does it benefit hearts in our current fight ? why on earth would a hearts fan, Ann Budge friend help the likes of Celtic, rangers, hibs, stmirren to pay for their testing . Why do we care of the SPL clubs are hit in the pocket

Is it not the case that any money being brought into the SPFL must be distributed amongst the 42 clubs?

 

Unfortunately, the Premiership clubs benefitting from JA’s money is something we can’t avoid if the purpose of it is to help the lower league clubs be able to function, and thus giving us a league to play in come August.

 

I don’t get it, or agree with it. The whole episode has confused the shit out of me. I’d let everyone burn, personally. But it’s his money to do as he likes.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, George Cowie said:

Because it’s not Hearts’ money and it is the right thing to do IF you want the perception that there are no strings attached. It is the difference between life and death for the lower teams 

Most of whom voted us into this shit show, but that aside - how does it square with Ann Budge staying categorically we will be going to court presumably for compensation. 
 

id rather sit out this season than help any of these teams survive, and especially to give money to enemies of the club.. and let’s make no mistake - Celtic, Hibs, Stmirren are no friends of HMFC. 
 

it feels like a knife in the back 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

AB said it was to help the lower leagues but looks like that has changed.  At the end of the day, it’s not her money. 

MacLennan sitting there in a mhanky old Sellic top, whistling the Fields of Athenry, probably set the tone for what the SPFL’s position would be.

[Whatever]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

AB said it was to help the lower leagues but looks like that has changed.  At the end of the day, it’s not her money. 

I don’t think any aid that comes in can only be given to certain clubs, lower league or not.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Whatever

[MCW1976]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Donkey won’t think he has done anything wrong - he will do doing hee haw 

That’s certainly the noise that donkey’s make!

[Rods]

6 minutes ago, rip van tinkle said:

Weirdly this money almost guarantees we will be in the championship next season, anything else will be seen as a bribe 

 

I am not sure how you are working that out.

 

Reconstruction was on the table long before the money was even mentioned

 

😜

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

widely reported after yesterday’s video call.

 

 

BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52881608

He added: "The offer from James is an extremely generous one and we have committed to work together to quickly iron out the details and develop a concrete proposal which could make a significant difference to our 42 clubs."

 

No mention anywhere of unconditional, and if it was what details would need to be ironed out? 

[DETTY29]

18 minutes ago, Darth Sidious said:

I find it hard to believe why Budge, who knows we are getting shafted, would take an active role in bringing money to Doncaster and the SPFL.  Surely she is not niave enough to think it will change Hibs or Ayr United's vote. 

 

As soon as the money is in the bank, next order of business will be to give Celtic their fixture list.  Hearts are not even a consideration with Doncaster, etc. 

We don't know if its part of an overall joint strategy, a Budge request to JA or a JA request  AB to act as introducer to SPFL.

 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Whatever said:

I don’t think many aid that comes in can only be given to certain clubs, lower league or not.

 

 

Surely he could just have sponsored specifically the lower leagues

[Whatever]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Surely he could just have sponsored specifically the lower leagues

I dunno mate. Just my interpretation. I could well be wrong.

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52881608

He added: "The offer from James is an extremely generous one and we have committed to work together to quickly iron out the details and develop a concrete proposal which could make a significant difference to our 42 clubs."

 

No mention anywhere of unconditional, and if it was what details would need to be ironed out? 

Not a direct quote

A source close to the discussions said: “There was an obvious concern that James might be looking at this with his Hearts hat on.

“But it does seem as if he is genuinely trying to do something altruistic on behalf of the Scottish game as a whole and what he is proposing is an incredible gesture.

[Whatever]

5 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

I am not sure how you are working that out.

 

Reconstruction was on the table long before the money was even mentioned

 

😜

Reconstruction to a 14 team prem looks completely dead to me.

 

If it wasn’t before, and it probably was. It most certainly is now.

[SUTOL]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Not a direct quote

A source close to the discussions said: “There was an obvious concern that James might be looking at this with his Hearts hat on.

“But it does seem as if he is genuinely trying to do something altruistic on behalf of the Scottish game as a whole and what he is proposing is an incredible gesture.

 

So no mention of unconditional then. 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Mr Anderson rattles the feed bag, and all the wee fat piggies come running as fast as their little trotters can carry them, squealing as they jostle for position at the trough.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

So no mention of unconditional then. 

 

 

sorry I could have posted the full article, the sentiment it was conveying was there were no conditions.. certainly none which were designed to benefit hearts..

 

stated it the offer was not contingent on hearts situation or reconstruction 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Mr Anderson rattles the feed bag, and all the wee fat piggies come running as fast as their little trotters can carry them, squealing as they jostle for position at the trough.

😂

[Biffa Bacon]

44 minutes ago, Walrus said:

Killie hater and fan of loud music.

 

I am not sure stacks of Hearts fans calling him a dick on Twitter, is the best plan to get him on board with our way of thinking.

[Tasavallan]

If reconstruction requires to be voted on by all 42 clubs then it will fail.  There are too many clubs with "owners" who run their clubs as their own personal fiefdom.  Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

Personally, offer them feck all and take the drop.  In parallel, litigate the *******s.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Ayr United rocket to the top of the boycott league!!

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-hearts-reconstruction-pitch-22122441

 

Ann Budge's Hearts reconstruction pitch branded 'condescending and smug' as Ayr chairman launches withering blast

Lachlan Cameron has rounded on the Tynecastle supremo as she attempts to convince clubs to sign up for a proposed SPFL revamp.

 

Ayr chairman Lachlan Cameron has launched a withering blast at Ann Budge and revealed he’ll block any attempt to save Hearts from relegation.

 

Cameron slammed Tynecastle owner Budge’s attempts to force through league reconstruction and keep her club in a new-look 14-team top flight as ‘condescending and smug”.

 

He admits it would be better for his own club not to be competing against the Jambos for promotion next season but is adamant Scottish football should not be remodelled just to keep Hearts happy.

 

Cameron said: “I just think this proposal, in its timing, seemed very condescending and smug to me to be honest. ‘Because we are Hearts we should be in the Premiership’ and so on and so forth.

 

“I understand why she might feel that but expressing it was harsh. We are a sporting competition and Hearts got relegated.

 

“I do feel sorry for Hearts but I would feel sorry for St Mirren if they were in the same spot and I’d feel sorry for Hamilton if they were in the same spot but I’m not sure everyone else would. If St Mirren were in this spot would anyone care? Would there be the fuss?

 

“I recognise that Hearts are a huge club. They are probably the third biggest club in Scotland, I’m guessing.

 

“You’re losing the Edinburgh derby and a few other things with Hearts going down.

 

“But, again, we are a sporting competition and Hearts ended up getting relegated so I don’t think you can change the rules just because it’s Hearts. It’s not right. It has to be right for any of the 42 clubs that could be in that position.”

 

Cameron was part of Budge’s Reconstruction Task Force which was sunk by a gang of six top flight clubs just last month.

 

Now he insists he will vote against any new proposal to rejig the league before the new season begins.

 

He said: “Reconstruction is a great idea, obviously. I was part of the reconstruction group that was disbanded a couple of weeks ago so I am for reconstruction, although not in the way it is being proposed right now by Hearts and Ann Budge.

 

“As of right now, Ayr United would be a pretty strong ‘no’ on the current proposals.

 

“I just think it’s too messy and there are too many things going on.

 

“We should set the structure and put it in place for 21/22 because everyone will know what they are playing for at that point. It would be much better for all the clubs involved.

 

 

 

 

Doesn't seem very concerned about going down the toilet 

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Mr Anderson rattles the feed bag, and all the wee fat piggies come running as fast as their little trotters can carry them, squealing as they jostle for position at the trough.

Using knives and forks

To eat their bacon

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Using knives and forks

To eat their bacon

I should have added a fork in his pudgey wee trotter actually. 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

I am not sure stacks of Hearts fans calling him a dick on Twitter, is the best plan to get him on board with our way of thinking.

he isn’t getting on board with our way of thinking .. that much is clear. 
 

the obvious errors on his argument can be highlighted. As can the fact that a huge percentage of hearts fans will not be going to Somerset park 

[Goodfella]

4 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Reconstruction to a 14 team prem looks completely dead to me.

 

If it wasn’t before, and it probably was. It most certainly is now.

 

Yep, it's dead. As much as it pains me to say it, the money provided by Anderson will hopefully give us a full/close to full Championship card next season.

 

Hopefully provided there's no freeze on promotion/relegation, we will go back up first time of asking. Just have to deal with it. I'm not fussed about the court case if she even decides to go ahead with it. If she does and it wins, great, it hurts clubs in the pocket. If she doesn't, well she has already said we have benefactors to cover our shortfall for this period, and I'm sure fans will continue to support the club financially.

 

The Ayr United chairman and his pals won't be enjoying money from Hearts, or certainly not nearly as much as they would have hoped for. Bring on the Championship.

[Deevers]

Rumours that there might only be sixteen teams able to commit to being able to start in August and being able to complete a full season.  If that is the case it’s an interesting proposition as to how Doncaster and Co go about things now. It also shows up how much hot air is coming out of some of these roaster in charge of lower division clubs.

[TheBigO]

1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

I should have added a fork in his pudgey wee trotter actually. 

I didn't know about the topless strips actually. Just, ahem, researched that.

 

This is a guy who has a vote on the future of our game.

 

It's ludicrous.

 

Change must come out of this no matter what happens with regards our expulsion

[Balders]

15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think that is the point of this - to ensure we have a Championship to play in.  Although it doesn’t do that - if some clubs can’t afford to pay their players with no income it doesn’t really matter if they have free Covid testing.  They’ll have to reconstruct the lower leagues if there’s any  chance of getting 10 teams in the Championship.

I agree. My gut feel is this is to guarantee we have a league to play in next season that can start in a reasonable timeframe. It removes excuses from other clubs saying the testing costs are prohibitive to them being able to play.  They have possibly done the maths and realised that he would  have to put the equivalent cost of the testing into Hearts to keep us going if there are no games for months.