SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Jambo66]

1 hour ago, annushorribilis III said:

There isn't going to be a shortfall from the 19/20 tv deal - the SPFL lawyers told them there was two clauses in the TV deal that would allow the SPFL to avoid any repayment (in their view). Doncaster could go to Sky any time after 20 April (IIRC) to cancel the contract - that means he should already know by now where the SPFL stands. But for some reason what was a massive problem for the clubs (and something the media kept banging on about) has NEVER been discussed in weeks. Not a single mention. 

 

The new TV deal has similar clauses but when Holyrood give the thumbs up to -restart , the SPFL top div will HAVE to step up  & deliver OR the SPFL will be in breach of contract. And the £28 million payable in August, when the season starts , will be in jeopardy. 

 

If this new money IS about making good a shortfall due to 19/20 repayments to Sky  (it's chickenfeed - equivalent to what Sky pay to cover one game in the EPL) we'll find out when it goes to court , I'm sure. 

 

The Prem not playing is not an option - it has to go ahead (in some form, at least) because if it doesn't ALL the clubs are going to be starved of cash. So for all the poison from clubs like StMirren & Motherwell, they are clubs with a massive problem (or is it ?) - because if the testing costs ARE circa £100K p.a then really, it's peanuts. Their TV money more than covers this (Hearts could maybe screw that up by demanding a portion of the damages sought are ringfenced which would stop the SPFL disbursing those much needed funds to the clubs)  -

the question is , how long can these Prem clubs  sustain themselves with no match day income ?

 

Would any club in the Prem be prepared to drop down into the Champ and play a shortened season , not starting until Jan 2021 ?  That might save some of them - but then the SPFL will have a  massive problem if that happens because they've put Hearts in the Champ and are refusing to go with recon . But they've also allowed clubs to voluntarily drop out (and save their own skins) while denying Hearts a chance to save THEIRS. 

 

The media is banging on about the Prem being the be all & end all but I think it's the Champ that is the headache (you could mothball L 1 & 2). 

 

If reports of Celtic asking for league fixtures to be released are true then maybe it's to force the hands of the diddy clubs : get ready for a full season , show us how you propose to finance it and be prepared for expulsion if you fail to complete the season. There is zero possibility of clubs taking a chance and then just going down the admin route (and taking a points deduction)  Hearts will see to that in court. 

 

But whatever way you look at it - the August £28M disappears/reduces  if there is no full programme of Prem fixtures  - unless Doncaster  can renegotiate otherwise.

But even if he does work his magic he's going to have a massive problem (and Hearts QC will know it) because the SPFL QC warned him not to risk the new season start date because there was a risk that would lead to the TV deal being renegotiated  - and that  was unlikely to go well in the Covid situation. So he didn't take the risk. 

They then used that legal opinion to shoehorn the clubs into voting to end the season - to protect the TV deal that is right now at risk if the current prem clubs can't deliver. 

 

The SPFL legal opinion was all about starting the new season on time and getting the precious TV money. It never foresaw the SPFL being unable to deliver because  of a lack of  competing teams or additional overheads like testing. I'll bet the SPFL are very busy right now getting a revised legal opinion and it won't just be about the Hearts scenario. In fact I'd say , right now, Hearts aren't even their biggest headache , it's the prem clubs. 

The bottom line is that we can guarantee that we can fulfill a complete season of fixtures.

How many other clubs can do that?

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, annushorribilis III said:

Spoiler

 

There isn't going to be a shortfall from the 19/20 tv deal - the SPFL lawyers told them there was two clauses in the TV deal that would allow the SPFL to avoid any repayment (in their view). Doncaster could go to Sky any time after 20 April (IIRC) to cancel the contract - that means he should already know by now where the SPFL stands. But for some reason what was a massive problem for the clubs (and something the media kept banging on about) has NEVER been discussed in weeks. Not a single mention. 

 

The new TV deal has similar clauses but when Holyrood give the thumbs up to -restart , the SPFL top div will HAVE to step up  & deliver OR the SPFL will be in breach of contract. And the £28 million payable in August, when the season starts , will be in jeopardy. 

 

If this new money IS about making good a shortfall due to 19/20 repayments to Sky  (it's chickenfeed - equivalent to what Sky pay to cover one game in the EPL) we'll find out when it goes to court , I'm sure. 

 

The Prem not playing is not an option - it has to go ahead (in some form, at least) because if it doesn't ALL the clubs are going to be starved of cash. So for all the poison from clubs like StMirren & Motherwell, they are clubs with a massive problem (or is it ?) - because if the testing costs ARE circa £100K p.a then really, it's peanuts. Their TV money more than covers this (Hearts could maybe screw that up by demanding a portion of the damages sought are ringfenced which would stop the SPFL disbursing those much needed funds to the clubs)  -

the question is , how long can these Prem clubs  sustain themselves with no match day income ?

 

Would any club in the Prem be prepared to drop down into the Champ and play a shortened season , not starting until Jan 2021 ?  That might save some of them - but then the SPFL will have a  massive problem if that happens because they've put Hearts in the Champ and are refusing to go with recon . But they've also allowed clubs to voluntarily drop out (and save their own skins) while denying Hearts a chance to save THEIRS. 

 

The media is banging on about the Prem being the be all & end all but I think it's the Champ that is the headache (you could mothball L 1 & 2). 

 

If reports of Celtic asking for league fixtures to be released are true then maybe it's to force the hands of the diddy clubs : get ready for a full season , show us how you propose to finance it and be prepared for expulsion if you fail to complete the season. There is zero possibility of clubs taking a chance and then just going down the admin route (and taking a points deduction)  Hearts will see to that in court. 

 

But whatever way you look at it - the August £28M disappears/reduces  if there is no full programme of Prem fixtures  - unless Doncaster  can renegotiate otherwise.

But even if he does work his magic he's going to have a massive problem (and Hearts QC will know it) because the SPFL QC warned him not to risk the new season start date because there was a risk that would lead to the TV deal being renegotiated  - and that  was unlikely to go well in the Covid situation. So he didn't take the risk. 

They then used that legal opinion to shoehorn the clubs into voting to end the season - to protect the TV deal that is right now at risk if the current prem clubs can't deliver. 

 

The SPFL legal opinion was all about starting the new season on time and getting the precious TV money. It never foresaw the SPFL being unable to deliver because  of a lack of  competing teams or additional overheads like testing. I'll bet the SPFL are very busy right now getting a revised legal opinion and it won't just be about the Hearts scenario. In fact I'd say , right now, Hearts aren't even their biggest headache , it's the prem clubs. 

 

 

In that first paragraph, is it actually BT we're talking about with the old tv deal?

[Bickfest]

2 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

There isn't going to be a shortfall from the 19/20 tv deal - the SPFL lawyers told them there was two clauses in the TV deal that would allow the SPFL to avoid any repayment (in their view). Doncaster could go to Sky any time after 20 April (IIRC) to cancel the contract - that means he should already know by now where the SPFL stands. But for some reason what was a massive problem for the clubs (and something the media kept banging on about) has NEVER been discussed in weeks. Not a single mention. 

 

The new TV deal has similar clauses but when Holyrood give the thumbs up to -restart , the SPFL top div will HAVE to step up  & deliver OR the SPFL will be in breach of contract. And the £28 million payable in August, when the season starts , will be in jeopardy. 

 

If this new money IS about making good a shortfall due to 19/20 repayments to Sky  (it's chickenfeed - equivalent to what Sky pay to cover one game in the EPL) we'll find out when it goes to court , I'm sure. 

 

The Prem not playing is not an option - it has to go ahead (in some form, at least) because if it doesn't ALL the clubs are going to be starved of cash. So for all the poison from clubs like StMirren & Motherwell, they are clubs with a massive problem (or is it ?) - because if the testing costs ARE circa £100K p.a then really, it's peanuts. Their TV money more than covers this (Hearts could maybe screw that up by demanding a portion of the damages sought are ringfenced which would stop the SPFL disbursing those much needed funds to the clubs)  -

the question is , how long can these Prem clubs  sustain themselves with no match day income ?

 

Would any club in the Prem be prepared to drop down into the Champ and play a shortened season , not starting until Jan 2021 ?  That might save some of them - but then the SPFL will have a  massive problem if that happens because they've put Hearts in the Champ and are refusing to go with recon . But they've also allowed clubs to voluntarily drop out (and save their own skins) while denying Hearts a chance to save THEIRS. 

 

The media is banging on about the Prem being the be all & end all but I think it's the Champ that is the headache (you could mothball L 1 & 2). 

 

If reports of Celtic asking for league fixtures to be released are true then maybe it's to force the hands of the diddy clubs : get ready for a full season , show us how you propose to finance it and be prepared for expulsion if you fail to complete the season. There is zero possibility of clubs taking a chance and then just going down the admin route (and taking a points deduction)  Hearts will see to that in court. 

 

But whatever way you look at it - the August £28M disappears/reduces  if there is no full programme of Prem fixtures  - unless Doncaster  can renegotiate otherwise.

But even if he does work his magic he's going to have a massive problem (and Hearts QC will know it) because the SPFL QC warned him not to risk the new season start date because there was a risk that would lead to the TV deal being renegotiated  - and that  was unlikely to go well in the Covid situation. So he didn't take the risk. 

They then used that legal opinion to shoehorn the clubs into voting to end the season - to protect the TV deal that is right now at risk if the current prem clubs can't deliver. 

 

The SPFL legal opinion was all about starting the new season on time and getting the precious TV money. It never foresaw the SPFL being unable to deliver because  of a lack of  competing teams or additional overheads like testing. I'll bet the SPFL are very busy right now getting a revised legal opinion and it won't just be about the Hearts scenario. In fact I'd say , right now, Hearts aren't even their biggest headache , it's the prem clubs. 

Great post. And I think it summarises, in a way, the strength of Hearts' position. I think we WOULD apply for an interim interdict for relief from the effects of the first ultra-vires vote if reconstruction is dismissed. The interdict would prevent any action which might prejudice our position, including fixture planning for next season (thus jeopardising the first payment). I think the interdict would be granted and, after some huffing and puffing, the SPFL would have to conduct a second vote (which would have the mandatory 28 day voting period). This will by no means be a certainty to confirm the first. My friend Gary Deans at Falkirk (whom I've known for over 30 years - great guy) is spitting blood about the chicanery involved in the first vote and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Falkirk vote no second time round. Perhaps not, but a chance.

 

Assuming the worst, however, and the second vote were to confirm the first, we would then seek compensation - bad faith, lack of governance etc etc. Consequences as discussed above - either SPFL pays (out of Sky payment presumably) or it's down to individual clubs. 

 

I think Dungcaster knows all this and is relaying it to the clubs. I'm not at all sure that reconstruction is dead in the water............

[manaliveits105]

Donkey won’t think he has done anything wrong - he will do doing hee haw 

[Biffa Bacon]

7 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

 

Fair points - basically agree with you.  It's about the only logical reason I can see for Ann introducing JA to the situation - they both seem to adhere to honourable values and behaviour.    And you're right, us fans  should be proud that Hearts will have played a part in helping Scottish football survive the crisis.  Total shame on Celtic for having done feck all.

 

That's grossly unfair they did call for the fixtures to be released! 

[Deevers]

6 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'm not saying the clubs wouldn't be affected, I'm saying that in terms of legal liability the SPFL is liable for the SPFL's debts. If it can't pay them it'll go bust.

 

The clubs are the SPFL. The financial liability will fall on the clubs.

[Biffa Bacon]

51 minutes ago, Bickfest said:

My friend Gary Deans at Falkirk (whom I've known for over 30 years - great guy) is spitting blood about the chicanery involved in the first vote

Falkirk along with the other clubs had an opportunity to call for an independent (free) investigation into the governance by the spfl board. For every angry chairman, there were 3 others who are either happy enough with the way things are done, or at least not unhappy enough to challenge.

[gashauskis9]

4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Can't see it.

This week (Friday) top 12 decided with status quo. 11-1 vote.

Celtic get the fixtures released the following week. Once this is done.

There will be no reconstruction done even if clubs go bust between now and 1st August (imo).

 

 

 

Just read Keef's new piece

Snippets

 

League chief executive Neil Doncaster gave all 12 top-flight clubs a briefing on Anderson’s generosity at an online conference call last night.

But he also asked each one to declare their position on a possible league reconstruction
by email before the end of this week.

It is hoped Anderson’s cash offer could help the second tier afford the testing and sterilising measures required to get the league up and running quicker then expected.  (Imo This would have to be July, surely?).

Cue a couple of emails tactically going missing 

[Holyrood_Hearts]

I see the boy at Ayr Utd has been mouthing off about Budge again. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Holyrood_Hearts said:

I see the boy at Ayr Utd has been mouthing off about Budge again. 

Enlighten us please. The man is a buffoon.

[David McCaig]

Just now, Holyrood_Hearts said:

I see the boy at Ayr Utd has been mouthing off about Budge again. 

Ayr United rocket to the top of the boycott league!!

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-hearts-reconstruction-pitch-22122441

 

Ann Budge's Hearts reconstruction pitch branded 'condescending and smug' as Ayr chairman launches withering blast

Lachlan Cameron has rounded on the Tynecastle supremo as she attempts to convince clubs to sign up for a proposed SPFL revamp.

 

Ayr chairman Lachlan Cameron has launched a withering blast at Ann Budge and revealed he’ll block any attempt to save Hearts from relegation.

 

Cameron slammed Tynecastle owner Budge’s attempts to force through league reconstruction and keep her club in a new-look 14-team top flight as ‘condescending and smug”.

 

He admits it would be better for his own club not to be competing against the Jambos for promotion next season but is adamant Scottish football should not be remodelled just to keep Hearts happy.

 

Cameron said: “I just think this proposal, in its timing, seemed very condescending and smug to me to be honest. ‘Because we are Hearts we should be in the Premiership’ and so on and so forth.

 

“I understand why she might feel that but expressing it was harsh. We are a sporting competition and Hearts got relegated.

 

“I do feel sorry for Hearts but I would feel sorry for St Mirren if they were in the same spot and I’d feel sorry for Hamilton if they were in the same spot but I’m not sure everyone else would. If St Mirren were in this spot would anyone care? Would there be the fuss?

 

“I recognise that Hearts are a huge club. They are probably the third biggest club in Scotland, I’m guessing.

 

“You’re losing the Edinburgh derby and a few other things with Hearts going down.

 

“But, again, we are a sporting competition and Hearts ended up getting relegated so I don’t think you can change the rules just because it’s Hearts. It’s not right. It has to be right for any of the 42 clubs that could be in that position.”

 

Cameron was part of Budge’s Reconstruction Task Force which was sunk by a gang of six top flight clubs just last month.

 

Now he insists he will vote against any new proposal to rejig the league before the new season begins.

 

He said: “Reconstruction is a great idea, obviously. I was part of the reconstruction group that was disbanded a couple of weeks ago so I am for reconstruction, although not in the way it is being proposed right now by Hearts and Ann Budge.

 

“As of right now, Ayr United would be a pretty strong ‘no’ on the current proposals.

 

“I just think it’s too messy and there are too many things going on.

 

“We should set the structure and put it in place for 21/22 because everyone will know what they are playing for at that point. It would be much better for all the clubs involved.

 

 

 

 

[stuart500]

With the Anderson cash not yet finalised and dangling like a carrot for all 42 clubs, I wonder how many Premiership clubs will come out today saying no to reconstruction? They were quick enough off the mark to kill the proposal last time.

 

Would they risk the ire of the smaller teams should this jeopordise the cash?

 

They would surely be concerned at the consequences of shafting Hearts when it's Hearts benefactor giving these clubs a lifeline. 

 

We will see today those who's sole aim is to damage Hearts and who don't give a shit about the potential consequences for anyone else.

 

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, Deevers said:

The clubs are the SPFL. The financial liability will fall on the clubs.

The legal liability of a court case would be with the SPFL, it's a corporation, a distinct legal entity.

The clubs are shareholders and would be affected, but they're not legally liable in a court case. 

[David McCaig]

With reference to Ayr's comments firstly I fully intend to post this article in advance of an  visits to Somerset Park this season.  This arse clearly thinks we will be filling his coffers... If we aren't "in the huff"!!

 

Seccondly, I would love it if James Anderson read those comments and walked away from talks with the SPFL and cited Lachlan Cameron as a reason.

 

Finally, the whole issue here is that the rules stated relegation happens after 38 games, that is the whole.crux here!! It's worth noting that last season in SPL, Championship and L1 none of the sides bottom after 30 games were bottom after 38.

Edited June 2, 2020 by David McCaig

[Manny1874]

1 minute ago, David McCaig said:

Ayr United rocket to the top of the boycott league!!

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-hearts-reconstruction-pitch-22122441

 

Ann Budge's Hearts reconstruction pitch branded 'condescending and smug' as Ayr chairman launches withering blast

Lachlan Cameron has rounded on the Tynecastle supremo as she attempts to convince clubs to sign up for a proposed SPFL revamp.

 

Ayr chairman Lachlan Cameron has launched a withering blast at Ann Budge and revealed he’ll block any attempt to save Hearts from relegation.

 

Cameron slammed Tynecastle owner Budge’s attempts to force through league reconstruction and keep her club in a new-look 14-team top flight as ‘condescending and smug”.

 

He admits it would be better for his own club not to be competing against the Jambos for promotion next season but is adamant Scottish football should not be remodelled just to keep Hearts happy.

 

Cameron said: “I just think this proposal, in its timing, seemed very condescending and smug to me to be honest. ‘Because we are Hearts we should be in the Premiership’ and so on and so forth.

 

“I understand why she might feel that but expressing it was harsh. We are a sporting competition and Hearts got relegated.

 

“I do feel sorry for Hearts but I would feel sorry for St Mirren if they were in the same spot and I’d feel sorry for Hamilton if they were in the same spot but I’m not sure everyone else would. If St Mirren were in this spot would anyone care? Would there be the fuss?

 

“I recognise that Hearts are a huge club. They are probably the third biggest club in Scotland, I’m guessing.

 

“You’re losing the Edinburgh derby and a few other things with Hearts going down.

 

“But, again, we are a sporting competition and Hearts ended up getting relegated so I don’t think you can change the rules just because it’s Hearts. It’s not right. It has to be right for any of the 42 clubs that could be in that position.”

 

Cameron was part of Budge’s Reconstruction Task Force which was sunk by a gang of six top flight clubs just last month.

 

Now he insists he will vote against any new proposal to rejig the league before the new season begins.

 

He said: “Reconstruction is a great idea, obviously. I was part of the reconstruction group that was disbanded a couple of weeks ago so I am for reconstruction, although not in the way it is being proposed right now by Hearts and Ann Budge.

 

“As of right now, Ayr United would be a pretty strong ‘no’ on the current proposals.

 

“I just think it’s too messy and there are too many things going on.

 

“We should set the structure and put it in place for 21/22 because everyone will know what they are playing for at that point. It would be much better for all the clubs involved.

 

 

 

 

 

So essentially, no sound reasoning. It's just because it's Hearts.

[David McCaig]

7 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Enlighten us please. The man is a buffoon.

I've posted the article so others don't need to sully themselves 😎

[Disco Dave]

1 minute ago, stuart500 said:

With the Anderson cash not yet finalised and dangling like a carrot for all 42 clubs, I wonder how many Premiership clubs will come out today saying no to reconstruction? They were quick enough off the mark to kill the proposal last time.

 

Would they risk the ire of the smaller teams should this jeopordise the cash?

 

They would surely be concerned at the consequences of shafting Hearts when it's Hearts benefactor giving these clubs a lifeline. 

 

We will see today those who's sole aim is to damage Hearts and who don't give a shit about the potential consequences for anyone else.

 

The Anderson money has apparently been pledged unconditionally though.

[Nookie Bear]

7 minutes ago, Manny1874 said:

 

So essentially, no sound reasoning. It's just because it's Hearts.

No, it’s not that. That **** is just saying what a lot of other people are saying: that Hearts deserves to be expelled and it was a ‘fair’ relegation. 
 

I don’t think anything other than a court case is going to convince people otherwise now. 

[No longer active]

4 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Can't see it.

This week (Friday) top 12 decided with status quo. 11-1 vote.

Celtic get the fixtures released the following week. Once this is done.

There will be no reconstruction done even if clubs go bust between now and 1st August (imo).

 

 

 

Just read Keef's new piece

Snippets

 

League chief executive Neil Doncaster gave all 12 top-flight clubs a briefing on Anderson’s generosity at an online conference call last night.

But he also asked each one to declare their position on a possible league reconstruction
by email before the end of this week.

It is hoped Anderson’s cash offer could help the second tier afford the testing and sterilising measures required to get the league up and running quicker then expected.  (Imo This would have to be July, surely?).

So this snippet it looks as though Neil Doncaster has told the SPL 12 that the JA money is there to get the second tier up and running quicker. Has he said there will be cash for the 12 ? Don’t think so! 
 

So the JA money once again is really there to ensure the Championship goes ahead   (we have a league to compete in) and that the smaller teams can afford to test / play BCD.

 

The ability to test players/staff will help the SPL 12, but it’s really been donated to ensure Hearts play meaningful football next season..... and have a promotion campaign goal. 

[BelgeJambo]

If Celtic have officially asked for the fixtures to be released(early), have they implicated themselves in this sordid affair?

[Deevers]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The legal liability of a court case would be with the SPFL, it's a corporation, a distinct legal entity.

The clubs are shareholders and would be affected, but they're not legally liable in a court case. 

Little doubt though that given the circumstances leading to the court case the costs would be passed down sequentially to the clubs. I have no doubt that Doncaster will be pointing that out to club chairmen fir them to digest the consequences.

[stuart500]

6 minutes ago, Disco Dave said:

The Anderson money has apparently been pledged unconditionally though.

'Apparantly' being the key word. It was mentioned in the thread earlier that the timing of the benefactor appearing is part of our strategy.

 

My guess is it's been thrown into the hat now to stop clubs just dismissing reconstruction out of hand. Not quite a bribe but just a subtle influence. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

So this snippet it looks as though Neil Doncaster has told the SPL 12 that the JA money is there to get the second tier up and running quicker. Has he said there will be cash for the 12 ? Don’t think so! 
 

So the JA money once again is really there to ensure the Championship goes ahead   (we have a league to compete in) and that the smaller teams can afford to test / play BCD.

 

The ability to test players/staff will help the SPL 12, but it’s really been donated to ensure Hearts play meaningful football next season..... and have a promotion campaign goal. 

yet according to Ann Budge we  will 100%  persue a legal case against the exact same clubs

 

I don’t get it. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by kingantti1874

[kingantti1874]

Just now, stuart500 said:

'Apparantly' being the key word. It was mentioned in the thread earlier that the timing of the benefactor appearing is part of our strategy.

 

My guess is it's been thrown into the hat now to stop clubs just dismissing reconstruction out of hand. Not quite a bribe but just a subtle influence. 

 

 

well it doesn’t look like it will work.. it should have been conditional on a restoration of common sense. 

[Koolkeith]

Just bin reconstruction and take them to court. If they want it the following season, vote it down. 

[Riccarton3]

17 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Ayr United rocket to the top of the boycott league!!

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-hearts-reconstruction-pitch-22122441

 

Ann Budge's Hearts reconstruction pitch branded 'condescending and smug' as Ayr chairman launches withering blast

Lachlan Cameron has rounded on the Tynecastle supremo as she attempts to convince clubs to sign up for a proposed SPFL revamp.

 

Ayr chairman Lachlan Cameron has launched a withering blast at Ann Budge and revealed he’ll block any attempt to save Hearts from relegation.

 

Cameron slammed Tynecastle owner Budge’s attempts to force through league reconstruction and keep her club in a new-look 14-team top flight as ‘condescending and smug”.

 

He admits it would be better for his own club not to be competing against the Jambos for promotion next season but is adamant Scottish football should not be remodelled just to keep Hearts happy.

 

Cameron said: “I just think this proposal, in its timing, seemed very condescending and smug to me to be honest. ‘Because we are Hearts we should be in the Premiership’ and so on and so forth.

 

“I understand why she might feel that but expressing it was harsh. We are a sporting competition and Hearts got relegated.

 

“I do feel sorry for Hearts but I would feel sorry for St Mirren if they were in the same spot and I’d feel sorry for Hamilton if they were in the same spot but I’m not sure everyone else would. If St Mirren were in this spot would anyone care? Would there be the fuss?

 

“I recognise that Hearts are a huge club. They are probably the third biggest club in Scotland, I’m guessing.

 

“You’re losing the Edinburgh derby and a few other things with Hearts going down.

 

“But, again, we are a sporting competition and Hearts ended up getting relegated so I don’t think you can change the rules just because it’s Hearts. It’s not right. It has to be right for any of the 42 clubs that could be in that position.”

 

Cameron was part of Budge’s Reconstruction Task Force which was sunk by a gang of six top flight clubs just last month.

 

Now he insists he will vote against any new proposal to rejig the league before the new season begins.

 

He said: “Reconstruction is a great idea, obviously. I was part of the reconstruction group that was disbanded a couple of weeks ago so I am for reconstruction, although not in the way it is being proposed right now by Hearts and Ann Budge.

 

“As of right now, Ayr United would be a pretty strong ‘no’ on the current proposals.

 

“I just think it’s too messy and there are too many things going on.

 

“We should set the structure and put it in place for 21/22 because everyone will know what they are playing for at that point. It would be much better for all the clubs involved.

 

 

 

 

Love these guys. Carefully avoid the words pandemic and season cut short. 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

well it doesn’t look like it will work.. it should have been conditional on a restoration of common sense. 

Or Scottish Football following a policy of zero detriment!!

[GinRummy]

19 minutes ago, Manny1874 said:

 

So essentially, no sound reasoning. It's just because it's Hearts.

Commenting on reconstruction while constantly referring to relegation and using the word sporting yet completely ignoring the fact hearts, Partick and Stranraer were bombed out their leagues with more than enough points available to save themselves.  It’s absolutely fundamental to the argument that nobody was relegated they were expelled and there is nothing sporting about clubs voting to expel other clubs to protect their own position. 
 

Meanwhile, all these chairmen know the vote itself was rotten to the core but would rather work within a stinking, corrupt system until it’s their club that suffers. They’re nothing short of a disgrace and should be ashamed to come out their house let alone go sooking up to the weegie press In a desperate bid for significance before things eventually get back to normal and their clubs sink back into irrelevance.

Edited June 2, 2020 by GinRummy

[hibsarepants]

1 minute ago, Deevers said:

Little doubt though that given the circumstances leading to the court case the costs would be passed down sequentially to the clubs. I have no doubt that Doncaster will be pointing that out to club chairmen fir them to digest the consequences.

 

If Hearts were to raise an action which was looking for Joint & Several Liability - naming the SPFL and the member clubs as the parties who inflicted the damages then the damages will be shared.

Even if the action was against the SPFL alone , I cannot see clubs like Celtic etc saying yes please top slice the Sky monies. They will be saying divide the damages by 41 and deduct from each clubs Sky monies. Either way its a potential holocaust for the small clubs. 

[stuart500]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

well it doesn’t look like it will work.. it should have been conditional on a restoration of common sense. 

Time will tell. We can only hope they've called it correctly. 

 

I still think we've a trump card up our sleeve. No one wants a court case.

[Deevers]

2 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Love these guys. Carefully avoid the words pandemic and season cut short. 

And I bet the shit won’t baulk at accepting the money on offer.

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, hibsarepants said:

 

If Hearts were to raise an action which was looking for Joint & Several Liability - naming the SPFL and the member clubs as the parties who inflicted the damages then the damages will be shared.

Even if the action was against the SPFL alone , I cannot see clubs like Celtic etc saying yes please top slice the Sky monies. They will be saying divide the damages by 41 and deduct from each clubs Sky monies. Either way its a potential holocaust for the small clubs. 

Of course it is -  it’s a Holocaust of their own making though.

[18Jambo_dave74]

I’m now at the stage where I’d take being a championship club if it meant clubs like Ayr Utd and Peterhead go bust. 
 

Reading the comments from that fat **** of a chairman has got me spitting blood. I understand that there are some fans who have said they will continue to go to away games to support Hearts but how any Hearts fan can read his comments and ever want to give Ayr Utd a single penny would amaze me. 
 

“But, again, we are a sporting competition and Hearts ended up getting relegated so I don’t think you can change the rules just because it’s Hearts“.

 

You’ve literally CHANGED THE RULES to “relegate” Hearts you utter cretin. 
 

Asked if it might be good for business to have such a well supported club in the division Cameron said: “Yes unless their supporters take the huff and decide to protest every away ground because they feel aggrieved.

 

Admitting that voting to “relegate” is in their financial interests then goading Hearts supporters about taking “the huff” as if we don’t have just cause to do so.

 

I regularly go to away games and enjoy the trips to these different clubs but absolutely no chance now. I would rather Hearts were in the East or Scotland league if it meant all these wee tinpot clubs went in to oblivion. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

Ayr United chairman is on Twitter, don’t miss jambos. And let’s make sure this fool knows not only will they not be getting up, they won’t be getting any away day revenues.

 

 

[stuart500]

If Hearts ever need to prove in court that there was malicious intent in their vote by a fellow SPFL member, a copy of that article will do nicely.

 

Cheers ya fat 'Ayr soul'.

Edited June 2, 2020 by stuart500

[rory78]

I can only see out of all this reconstruction being voted against - JA saving all the clubs from going bust and us playing in the Championship whenever that may be,pretty gutted that this guy is coming in to help all these clubs that have effectively just thrown us under a bus - we'll end up with a pittance of compensation which will probably be undeclared then asked to move on - Anne has had some baffling decisions over the last few year's and I'm beginning to think with all this its going to be the same

[Walrus]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Ayr United chairman is on Twitter, don’t miss jambos. And let’s make sure this fool knows not only will they not be getting up, they won’t be getting any away day revenues.

 

 

Killie hater and fan of loud music.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Walrus said:

Killie hater and fan of loud music.

 

What an ABSALUTE ROASTER

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

100k a season 

 

 

Cheers. 

Makes more sense. 

[SUTOL]

11 minutes ago, hibsarepants said:

 

If Hearts were to raise an action which was looking for Joint & Several Liability - naming the SPFL and the member clubs as the parties who inflicted the damages then the damages will be shared.

Even if the action was against the SPFL alone , I cannot see clubs like Celtic etc saying yes please top slice the Sky monies. They will be saying divide the damages by 41 and deduct from each clubs Sky monies. Either way its a potential holocaust for the small clubs. 

 

The SPFL is a legal entity, with its own income streams which can easily afford to pay any damages awarded by a court. 

Its Articles of Association state that before it makes any payments to clubs, that it keeps back money to pay all its current and future bills. 

 

So if there is a potential court case looming and they know how much £'s may be involved thya have to withhold that from any payments to clubs. 

[No longer active]

So Hearts goals in order of priority are...

 

1. Play SPL football next season because we have been evicted by Covid rather than sport.  Solution : An interim 14 team SPL that needs the support of SPFL members, who all have self interest at heart.

 

2. Play Championship football next season  thus accepting the eviction after some appropriate pay-off/ court award. Problem:   Covid May prevent competition and jeopardise league.

 

3. Reconstruct the whole damn thing! Addressing the duopoly and make the game in Scotland more attractive.

 

So 1 needs the support of the members and the threat of court action has not yet resulted in that support albeit discussions are on going even though unlikely to result in 1 occurring.

 

2 is the next best solution for Hearts, and JA’s money is the mechanism by which 2 happens. So a donation to help Scottish Football is really is the guarantee of competitive football for Hearts next season - clever!

 

3 is what must happen after 1 or 2, as undoubtedly some clubs (from all 4 divisions) will go bust - JA’s money is not there to solve ‘hand-to-mouth’ existence some clubs operate under.

[Anything2]

3 minutes ago, rory78 said:

I can only see out of all this reconstruction being voted against - JA saving all the clubs from going bust and us playing in the Championship whenever that may be,pretty gutted that this guy is coming in to help all these clubs that have effectively just thrown us under a bus - we'll end up with a pittance of compensation which will probably be undeclared then asked to move on - Anne has had some baffling decisions over the last few year's and I'm beginning to think with all this its going to be the same

Yeah, I feel like the Championship going ahead actually weakens our position, not morally but in terms of we would have the 'safe landing place' that some of the chairmen talked about earlier. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s £50 a test, on 30 tests 3 times a week that’s £4.5k,  say £20k a month, x 30 that’s £600k x 9 months that’s £5.4m if it’s needed for the whole season.  Do I get a gold star 😜?

 

 

Cheers, more sensible, I read it as a £100k a month per club. 

Maybe that was an American price 🤔

 

Gold star for you you.!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I look forward to Ayr being able to play a full season....

[David McCaig]

I'm surprised no one has picked up on the misogynistic undertones of Lachlan Cameron's interview... "Smug and condescending" are surely just code words for I don't like a woman having an opinion or trying to tell me what to do.

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, Bickfest said:

Great post. And I think it summarises, in a way, the strength of Hearts' position. I think we WOULD apply for an interim interdict for relief from the effects of the first ultra-vires vote if reconstruction is dismissed. The interdict would prevent any action which might prejudice our position, including fixture planning for next season (thus jeopardising the first payment). I think the interdict would be granted and, after some huffing and puffing, the SPFL would have to conduct a second vote (which would have the mandatory 28 day voting period). This will by no means be a certainty to confirm the first. My friend Gary Deans at Falkirk (whom I've known for over 30 years - great guy) is spitting blood about the chicanery involved in the first vote and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Falkirk vote no second time round. Perhaps not, but a chance.

 

Assuming the worst, however, and the second vote were to confirm the first, we would then seek compensation - bad faith, lack of governance etc etc. Consequences as discussed above - either SPFL pays (out of Sky payment presumably) or it's down to individual clubs. 

 

I think Dungcaster knows all this and is relaying it to the clubs. I'm not at all sure that reconstruction is dead in the water............

I’m pretty sure Falkirk were one of the 8 no voters anyway?

[jambopilms]

So instead of the genuine chance of winning promotion, he would rather us in their league because of a few hundred extra supporters twice a year. Sums up Scottish football and it is the same all throughout the leagues.

Don't care about winning just asking as there is a big club to hang onto.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

Strange how people read differently into a situation. I believe the testing money is a masterstroke.

 

I can’t see how the testing money would diminish our position.

 

The aim throughout is to be playing in the top league. If not, then the championship and compensation.

 

Removing the financial burden of testing for all clubs serves two purposes.

 

Firstly it removes some financial uncertainty where can commit to start dates and a season ( full or otherwise) as able to meet the associated costs for the season. If that is agreed without reconstruction the threat is that the members are taken to court to potentially catastrophic cost for some clubs.

 

Secondly, if this does go to court, the money removes the extra financial burden in cost of the pandemic ( the cost to test) for every club. Every club could argue that there are restrictions to trade if testing is enforced and they are not able to trade because they cannot afford it. If that burden is removed then the restriction to trade comes down to the expulsion by the board based on members votes. 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

So Hearts goals in order of priority are...

 

1. Play SPL football next season because we have been evicted by Covid rather than sport.  Solution : An interim 14 team SPL that needs the support of SPFL members, who all have self interest at heart.

 

2. Play Championship football next season  thus accepting the eviction after some appropriate pay-off/ court award. Problem:   Covid May prevent competition and jeopardise league.

 

3. Reconstruct the whole damn thing! Addressing the duopoly and make the game in Scotland more attractive.

 

So 1 needs the support of the members and the threat of court action has not yet resulted in that support albeit discussions are on going even though unlikely to result in 1 occurring.

 

2 is the next best solution for Hearts, and JA’s money is the mechanism by which 2 happens. So a donation to help Scottish Football is really is the guarantee of competitive football for Hearts next season - clever!

 

3 is what must happen after 1 or 2, as undoubtedly some clubs (from all 4 divisions) will go bust - JA’s money is not there to solve ‘hand-to-mouth’ existence some clubs operate under.

how is it clever to make the monies unconditional? Putting aside that it should have been conditional on no clubs being unfairly relegated! It should have been conditional on no funds going to SPL, and conditional on all championship clubs guaranteeing they can fulfill fixtures. 
 

feels like we’ve gone all in with a pair of 8’s and hoped everyone would fold and see sense

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, SUTOL said:

 

The SPFL is a legal entity, with its own income streams which can easily afford to pay any damages awarded by a court. 

Its Articles of Association state that before it makes any payments to clubs, that it keeps back money to pay all its current and future bills. 

 

So if there is a potential court case looming and they know how much £'s may be involved thya have to withhold that from any payments to clubs. 

If we land up in court with them and the Championship is not up and running I reckon they are going to have to have a very substantial figure at their disposal to cover their liability to us and costs.  At the end of the day it’s the clubs that will suffer. There’s a growing number now that I won’t be sorry to see fail and fade into obvlivion.