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SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )


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jambopilms

With all the talk of a reduced championship, would that not have to be voted on by the club's involved ? Not sure why any full time clubs would vote for it.

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6 hours ago, Last Laff said:


If it was that simple and that easy it would be done by now.  What you’re doing is guessing.  If the against vote originally did have the clause of voting for after 28 days we are goosed and now there’s no independent enquiry the courts if it went to it will look at the investigation done who had no issue with wrongdoing and we will be goosed.  
 

If the SPFL broke any law at all do you not think they will be paying a lot, lot more than we can for legal advice?  Do you not think they will be told by the same legal team how likely any lawsuit against them will conclude?  They don’t even seem to give a shit about it.  If we take them to court and get even £2m compensation it’s a miracle.  

You are the one who is guessing, my friend.

Whether 28 days had passed or not...

 

"In particular, in terms of Article 185, the Dundee Rejection Vote was deemed to have been cast when it was sent:
“Any notice or other document [sent]1 otherwise than by post, or sent by facsimile transmission or telex or email or other instantaneous means of transmission, shall be deemed to have been served or delivered when it was left or sent.”

 

Furthermore, the investigation you refer to had a very narrow brief, and that was to find if the SPFL board had indeed not seen the emailed vote from Dundee, because it was in the spam folder. Which it was. As you can see from the above...that is irrelevant. The vote is cast when it has either been sent or delivered.

"A unilateral written notice apparently sent for and on behalf of Dundee that “any attempted vote from the club should not be considered as cast”. The subsequent conversations in terms of which it is said that the vote has not yet been cast, are inconsistent with the actual vote having been executed and having had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on Friday 10 April.

 

Please have a read of the legal advice given to PTFC. It's pretty unequivocal.

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Ethan Hunt
10 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Total non story. Winnie obviously hasn't read the resolution or even kept abrest of the situ.

 

Unlike a few QCs up here who've poured over it properly.

 

Its a headline, no more.

It’s also a non story that - despite his obvious lack of in-depth knowledge of the full circumstances - he still provides three separate avenues that Hearts could pursue legal action down, will all three strands making the case stronger. 

 

The media are really failing in their attempt to discredit our legal chances.

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BelgeJambo
7 hours ago, Drumjambo said:

 

The bowling club (SPFL) cannot speak to UEFA its the SFA as our association that must

Doncaster is on both, is he not?
many people with two hats you know 😃

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So Winnie saying legal action would be difficult. I don’t think even the most optimistic Jambo thinks it’ll be a slam dunk. 

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David McCaig
2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

It’s also a non story that - despite his obvious lack of in-depth knowledge of the full circumstances - he still provides three separate avenues that Hearts could pursue legal action down, will all three strands making the case stronger. 

 

The media are really failing in their attempt to discredit our legal chances.

In which case Hearts need to sort their PR out and start taking control of the narrative.

 

At the moment it seems like Ann Budge has once again been diverted down the reconstruction rabbit hole.

 

We've now got Championship clubs dictating terms of when they might bother turning up to play us!!

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4 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

Doncaster is on both, is he not?
many people with two hats you know 😃

All part of the problem. Really it’s time for one Governing bodywith an executive made up of people with no affiliation to any team here. Running the game properly should be that mantra and not not exclusively just looking after the best interests of only two clubs. The present predicament lays bare the cancer at the heart of the game here.

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3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So Winnie saying legal action would be difficult. I don’t think even the most optimistic Jambo thinks it’ll be a slam dunk. 

Winnie's also got some of his facts wrong tho...he's saying that Hearts voted to end the season, and that weakens any case we may have...we didn't.

We voted against ending the season in the original resolution. The only thing we agreed to was that there was no realistic prospect of completing the fixtures. Thereafter, the SPFL board ended the season based on the power created by the original resolution.

 

I honestly think our case will rest on the Dundee vote switch.

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11 minutes ago, jambmoz said:

I think she needs to get this paper presented ASAP,  get it over with.

My guess is the paper was ready then when all these teams started saying they can't play, it blew its chances, so it was back to the drawing board.

 

We need to give our resolution a chance, so consideration probably now going into what will get it votes and get us what webwant/deserve.

 

Again, such a joke that Ann is heading this and not the SPFL themselves.

 

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Clubs declining to play BCD is a potential gift to everyone involved in this. If the SPFL board don’t see an opportunity here to put this all to bed without court or compensation then we need to give up.

 

Mothball those who can’t play or refuse to play BCD from August. Those piss ant clubs trying to tell everyone else when the season is starting at lower league level. ‘Aye we can maybe start in October etc etc’  - ‘Piss off, you’ll start in August when the season starts or you’ll mothball for a year and come back in at the lowest level’

 

2 leagues from what is left. Hearts happy. Partick happy. Stranraer with a decision to make. No one goes to court. No one pays compensation. Bad governance is swept under the carpet and we all go back to perfectly normal levels of corruption, incompetence and bullying. Then we see who is still around in a year. Job done!!

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Ann should be saying she’ll back reconstruction but isn’t doing the donkey work. And that if it fails Hearts will be going to court. That’s all the bargaining power we have.

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Fozzyonthefence
1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

My guess is the paper was ready then when all these teams started saying they can't play, it blew its chances, so it was back to the drawing board.

 

We need to give our resolution a chance, so consideration probably now going into what will get it votes and get us what webwant/deserve.

 

Again, such a joke that Ann is heading this and not the SPFL themselves.

 


Agreed, but get it done quickly.  It’s just a case of going through the motions so we can say well, we tried.  But has zero chance of getting voted through so let’s not waste much time on it and get the vote done and out the way, so we can move onto some action we might actually have a chance of winning.

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2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Clubs declining to play BCD is a potential gift to everyone involved in this. If the SPFL board don’t see an opportunity here to put this all to bed without court or compensation then we need to give up.

 

Mothball those who can’t play or refuse to play BCD from August. Those piss ant clubs trying to tell everyone else when the season is starting at lower league level. ‘Aye we can maybe start in October etc etc’  - ‘Piss off, you’ll start in August when the season starts or you’ll mothball for a year and come back in at the lowest level’

 

2 leagues from what is left. Hearts happy. Partick happy. Stranraer with a decision to make. No one goes to court. No one pays compensation. Bad governance is swept under the carpet and we all go back to perfectly normal levels of corruption, incompetence and bullying. Then we see who is still around in a year. Job done!!

Too sensible

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41 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

2. This is now just the Ann Budge Show


The bare-faced irony of this statement here, from a guy who tries to turn every single thread he trolls on, in to the I8 show.

 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy
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2 minutes ago, cb1874 said:

Winnie's also got some of his facts wrong tho...he's saying that Hearts voted to end the season, and that weakens any case we may have...we didn't.

We voted against ending the season in the original resolution. The only thing we agreed to was that there was no realistic prospect of completing the fixtures. Thereafter, the SPFL board ended the season based on the power created by the original resolution.

 

I honestly think our case will rest on the Dundee vote switch.

I don't mate. That's part of it, yeah, but all that means is the resolution failed. Big, yes, but doesn't save us as such. That's about the mechanics of the vote, really.  Important but not the crux of the matter, as much as a chapter of it.

 

The bigger part of the case is the duty of care. Have the SPFL done all they can to protect all members? Did the resolution present the full truth and lay out all the viable options in s fair manner? We know it didn't. They rushed a paper full of half truths and ultimatums, while hiding other avenues behind semantics. This caused three clubs to be expelled. That's our case imo and whelat would get us a suitable resolution.

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6 minutes ago, cb1874 said:

The only thing we agreed to was that there was no realistic prospect of completing the fixtures. Thereafter, the SPFL board ended the season based on the power created by the original resolution.

 

We should have voted against that IMO. Would have made no difference to the outcome but it’s an inconsistency waiting to be exposed if you ask me.

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Captain Canada
9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Clubs declining to play BCD is a potential gift to everyone involved in this. If the SPFL board don’t see an opportunity here to put this all to bed without court or compensation then we need to give up.

 

Mothball those who can’t play or refuse to play BCD from August. Those piss ant clubs trying to tell everyone else when the season is starting at lower league level. ‘Aye we can maybe start in October etc etc’  - ‘Piss off, you’ll start in August when the season starts or you’ll mothball for a year and come back in at the lowest level’

 

2 leagues from what is left. Hearts happy. Partick happy. Stranraer with a decision to make. No one goes to court. No one pays compensation. Bad governance is swept under the carpet and we all go back to perfectly normal levels of corruption, incompetence and bullying. Then we see who is still around in a year. Job done!!

 

Agree 100% but the SPFL isn't known for its common sense. 

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jambopilms

I'm totally baffled at how much drama there has been about potential reconstruction or no relegation but then some championship clubs can just throw out there when their league will start and how many games they will decide to play.

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Unknown user
30 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So Winnie saying legal action would be difficult. I don’t think even the most optimistic Jambo thinks it’ll be a slam dunk. 

Correct, difficult's fine, I'm happy with long, painful and inconvenient if we foot the bill. If it ends up all we can do is piss them off and inconvenience then that'll have to do.

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ford donald
5 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

 

Agree 100% but the SPFL isn't known for its common sense. 

 SPFL holding emergency meeting thie week,wed/thurs.

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Ethan Hunt
5 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

In which case Hearts need to sort their PR out and start taking control of the narrative.

 

At the moment it seems like Ann Budge has once again been diverted down the reconstruction rabbit hole.

 

We've now got Championship clubs dictating terms of when they might bother turning up to play us!!

Hearts have control of the narrative. The media have ill informed people speculating about what grounds Hearts will be pursuing action on, and what chances we have in relation to that speculation.  Meanwhile, Hearts are quietly preparing their case, with a legal team drilling down on all the detail, and as you would expect, giving nothing away.

 

The reconstruction “rabbit hole” is a necessary part of the whole process. Reconstruction will determine whether we need to pursue legal action. Even though Winnie clearly doesn’t have intimate knowledge of the circumstances he does state that the original resolution could go against the clubs duty to protect each other. If reconstruction fails Hearts can evidence in court that SPFL clubs have now failed twice in that duty, once with the original resolution, and secondly when voting against reconstruction, which is essentially a way of correcting the first breach of duty.

 

No clubs are “dictating” anything to us. Use of that language is unhelpful. Clubs are stating their position, and how the pandemic is/will financially affect their ability to operate. These are football clubs, founded to play games of football. The financial impacts of COVID19 is affecting them, like it is affecting us, and that is another argument that strengthens our case. Not only has the pandemic weakened us financially, but a flawed resolution will place us in a league where we will be financially weakened even more. A league that will restrict us from doing what we were founded to do, play football, while potentially the Premiership, that we have been expelled from, may go ahead behind closed doors.

 

I’ve said previously it’s about making sure that all your guns are pointing at the same target. You can win a battle by pointing a gun rather than firing it

 

 

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David McCaig
1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Hearts have control of the narrative. The media have ill informed people speculating about what grounds Hearts will be pursuing action on, and what chances we have in relation to that speculation.  Meanwhile, Hearts are quietly preparing their case, with a legal team drilling down on all the detail, and as you would expect, giving nothing away.

 

The reconstruction “rabbit hole” is a necessary part of the whole process. Reconstruction will determine whether we need to pursue legal action. Even though Winnie clearly doesn’t have intimate knowledge of the circumstances he does state that the original resolution could go against the clubs duty to protect each other. If reconstruction fails Hearts can evidence in court that SPFL clubs have now failed twice in that duty, once with the original resolution, and secondly when voting against reconstruction, which is essentially a way of correcting the first breach of duty.

 

No clubs are “dictating” anything to us. Use of that language is unhelpful. Clubs are stating their position, and how the pandemic is/will financially affect their ability to operate. These are football clubs, founded to play games of football. The financial impacts of COVID19 is affecting them, like it is affecting us, and that is another argument that strengthens our case. Not only has the pandemic weakened us financially, but a flawed resolution will place us in a league where we will be financially weakened even more. A league that will restrict us from doing what we were founded to do, play football, while potentially the Premiership, that we have been expelled from, may go ahead behind closed doors.

 

I’ve said previously it’s about making sure that all your guns are pointing at the same target. You can win a battle by pointing a gun rather than firing it

 

 

If what you are saying is true that’s great... but emphasises the point that we have lost control of the narrative.

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Ethan Hunt
29 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So Winnie saying legal action would be difficult. I don’t think even the most optimistic Jambo thinks it’ll be a slam dunk. 

Legal action, by its very nature, is always difficult. I’d be amazed if Winnie has ever told a client otherwise.

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14 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


The bare-faced irony of this statement here, from a guy who tries to turn every single thread he trolls on, in to the I8 show.

 

 

 

 

I don't but many on here do.  I make a post and the same old suspects come on and either abuse me or post the same old shit.  Even though I make very valid points it gets turned into the i8 show.

 

Society just likes to get obsessed to reputations and focus on it.  Donal Trump is a class example of this.  The worldwide obsession with this man is quite laughable.  

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11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

We should have voted against that IMO. Would have made no difference to the outcome but it’s an inconsistency waiting to be exposed if you ask me.

We formally voted against the following key areas of the resolution....

 

A) Complete the non Premiership season on a PPG basis

B ) Scrap play offs

C) Give the SPFL Board the autonomy to complete the season whenever IT wanted to, albeit the board would talk to clubs and consider reconstruction.

 

We agreed outside of formal resolution that it was likely the current season could not be completed ahead of the new one starting.

 

 

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Fxxx the SPFL
4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I don't but many on here do.  I make a post and the same old suspects come on and either abuse me or post the same old shit.  Even though I make very valid points it gets turned into the i8 show.

 

Society just likes to get obsessed to reputations and focus on it.  Donal Trump is a class example of this.  The worldwide obsession with this man is quite laughable.  

Irish Trump lol

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doctor jambo

If clubs cannot play from August then that is honestly not our problem, it is theirs.

THey need to put their hands up and state they cannot complete the fixture list for the season, and take what is coming to them.

Otherwise you have a league where half of it is F'd if we start in august, and half is f'd if we dont.

They voted for this shit storm, well now they will need to live with it

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Nookie Bear
6 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If what you are saying is true that’s great... but emphasises the point that we have lost control of the narrative.


Unfortunately the narrative is very much that Hearts are pushing reconstruction to save their SPL status  

 

The fact the very future of the professional game in Scotland is in doubt seems to be a sideshow. 

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Brian Fantana
1 minute ago, DETTY29 said:

We formally voted against the following key areas of the resolution....

 

A) Complete the non Premiership season on a PPG basis

B ) Scrap play offs

C) Give the SPFL Board the autonomy to complete the season whenever IT wanted to, albeit the board would talk to clubs and consider reconstruction.

 

We agreed outside of formal resolution that it was likely the current season could not be completed ahead of the new one starting.

 

 

This is the part of the narrative that seems to have taken hold with people online. I've had people on twitter call me out by saying "Hearts shouldn't have voted to end the season" but this is utter nonsense. Hearts didn't want to end the season, just agreed that the current season couldn't be completed. 

 

The other online myth being spouted about "financial mismanagement" from Celtic, Hibs and St Mirren fans also boils my urine. We are arguably in the best financial shape we have been in in my lifetime. Only reason finances are now not working is the massive hit in income that we have been FORCED to take by the other member clubs. 

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Nookie Bear
1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

If clubs cannot play from August then that is honestly not our problem, it is theirs.

THey need to put their hands up and state they cannot complete the fixture list for the season, and take what is coming to them.

Otherwise you have a league where half of it is F'd if we start in august, and half is f'd if we dont.

They voted for this shit storm, well now they will need to live with it


First thing we should be saying at these meetings is that we will be there to play in whatever league on the proper start date. We’ll see you there. 
 

Nothing to stop clubs offering expenses only to players to fill their squads for the coming season. 

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27 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Clubs declining to play BCD is a potential gift to everyone involved in this. If the SPFL board don’t see an opportunity here to put this all to bed without court or compensation then we need to give up.

 

Mothball those who can’t play or refuse to play BCD from August. Those piss ant clubs trying to tell everyone else when the season is starting at lower league level. ‘Aye we can maybe start in October etc etc’  - ‘Piss off, you’ll start in August when the season starts or you’ll mothball for a year and come back in at the lowest level’

 

2 leagues from what is left. Hearts happy. Partick happy. Stranraer with a decision to make. No one goes to court. No one pays compensation. Bad governance is swept under the carpet and we all go back to perfectly normal levels of corruption, incompetence and bullying. Then we see who is still around in a year. Job done!!

Its so simplistic for some bizarre reason no-one can see it.

 

Our football leaders are so damned useless.

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doctor jambo
Just now, Nookie Bear said:


First thing we should be saying at these meetings is that we will be there to play in whatever league on the proper start date. We’ll see you there. 
 

Nothing to stop clubs offering expenses only to players to fill their squads for the coming season. 

Quite, you dont turn up and we will take the 3-0.

 

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doctor jambo
Just now, doctor jambo said:

Quite, you dont turn up and we will take the 3-0.

 

And I'd also be at pains to point out that every single championship club bar ICT voted us down so can f- right off if they start "squealing like pigs" as their fiscal overlords in Maroon drive them out of business

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hibsarepants

David Winnie is NOT a Commercial Dispute / Litigation specialist and he is certainly not a QC versed in the Scottish Courts and how they deal with Damage claims.

Its fairly simple:

Hearts QC     - Mr Donaldson did your organisation propose this course of action

Mr Donaldson - Yes , it was agreed by...….

Hearts QC   - Did this action cause damages to my client

Mr Donaldson - Yes but......…...

Hearts QC   - Were there alternative actions that could have caused little if any damages to my client and why did you not take the action which caused least damage to your member clubs

Mr Donaldson - Yes but...…..

Hearts QC  - m'lud , the prosecution rests

 

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1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Total non story. Winnie obviously hasn't read the resolution or even kept abrest of the situ.

 

Unlike a few QCs up here who've poured over it properly.

 

Its a headline, no more.

Just wish people would understand that there is a difference between English and Scottish civil law. Clearly Whinnie is struggling to understand that.

Edited by OldGorgie
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Ethan Hunt
10 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If what you are saying is true that’s great... but emphasises the point that we have lost control of the narrative.

And who is the narrative supposed to influence? What the media say in general, or Hearts say at this point, will have no impact on the actual court proceedings themselves. Hearts need to remain in control of what Hearts do, the media won’t influence that and the media can’t be controlled anyway, well certainly not by Hearts. 

 

The constant negative media narrative is only to undermine Hearts case in the eyes of those willing to be negatively influenced. I’d suggest you are one of those people.

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Clerry Jambo
20 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 SPFL holding emergency meeting thie week,wed/thurs.

these twats couldn't hold the proverbial piss up in a brewery

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Ethan Hunt
16 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We formally voted against the following key areas of the resolution....

 

A) Complete the non Premiership season on a PPG basis

B ) Scrap play offs

C) Give the SPFL Board the autonomy to complete the season whenever IT wanted to, albeit the board would talk to clubs and consider reconstruction.

 

We agreed outside of formal resolution that it was likely the current season could not be completed ahead of the new one starting.

 

 

Correct. Our argument won’t be that the season was ended, it’ll be the way it was ended and the negative impact that had on three clubs in particular.

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7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:


First thing we should be saying at these meetings is that we will be there to play in whatever league on the proper start date. We’ll see you there. 
 

Nothing to stop clubs offering expenses only to players to fill their squads for the coming season. 


Correct, every club (I think) could invoke article 12 to clear them of all current contracts and then resign/sign players on expense only/vastly reduced terms, they players may not be of the same standard but almost everyone Would be in the same boat. Also nothing to prevent teams signing players that have wages that vary depending on whether or not games are behind closed doors or not

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1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Several reasons:

 

1. A decision has already been made. No it hasn't.

2. This is now just the Ann Budge Show. Aye, she's never off the TV or out the papers right enough.

3. She should maybe have cared a bit more about being in the top flight about four years ago when the decline started and she was too concerned about a young lassies team and  free digital innovation centres for the community. She has backed financially every manager in that time.

4. It is embarrassing watching this. No it's not, it's embarrassing watching what the SPFL and other clubs are doing.

5. We put ourselves in this position. No, the other clubs voted to end the season and the board decided to expel us into this position.

6. We were the shitest team in the league. This is no-ones fault bar ours. The shitest team in the league gets relegated if they are the shitest team in the league after 38 games not 30.

7. She is ****ing clueless at all things football so like one of her teams over the past four years she will win **** all. Apart from Celtic nobody has won anything over the past 4 years.

 

 

Step down please with immediate effect. Take your loser staff with you (all 4 million of the duds). Take this on the chin, rebuild, grow back our bollocks and start being a football club again.

 

 

 

:facepalm:

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1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

The constant negative media narrative is only to undermine Hearts case in the eyes of those willing to be negatively influenced. I’d suggest you are one of those people

Very true. The Daily Record in particular has run a large number of negative stories, the worst one being that we are in deep financial trouble. Absolute rag that portrays knife crime as a normal part of life.

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53 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

In which case Hearts need to sort their PR out and start taking control of the narrative.

 

At the moment it seems like Ann Budge has once again been diverted down the reconstruction rabbit hole.

 

We've now got Championship clubs dictating terms of when they might bother turning up to play us!!


Are rules not in place to cover this?

If a Championship side is unable to honour a fixture then a 3-0 win is awarded to the other side.

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south morocco
25 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

If what you are saying is true that’s great... but emphasises the point that we have lost control of the narrative.

I think what he’s saying is, their  narrative is being played out in the media. We haven’t discussed or set a narrative in the media yet. We are still waiting on events to unfold? Please correct me if that’s wrong 

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Ethan Hunt
48 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


Agreed, but get it done quickly.  It’s just a case of going through the motions so we can say well, we tried.  But has zero chance of getting voted through so let’s not waste much time on it and get the vote done and out the way, so we can move onto some action we might actually have a chance of winning.

We can’t argue a flawed resolution then put forward a flawed and ill though out reconstruction resolution. If nothing else we need to evidence we have been diligent, consultative and considerate in our proposals, everything the SPFL board were not.

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Ethan Hunt
27 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:


Unfortunately the narrative is very much that Hearts are pushing reconstruction to save their SPL status  

 

The fact the very future of the professional game in Scotland is in doubt seems to be a sideshow. 

We are pushing reconstruction to save our, and other clubs, very existence.

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So 18 or 27 game championship in  20/21. If we are stuck in it, i take it if its 27 games it will be A third of games at Tynecastle and 2 away trips to everyone else...hoping our supporters boost their pockets.

 

How about no away fans at any ground? We can then spread out totally around Tynecastle.

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54 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

Ann should be saying she’ll back reconstruction but isn’t doing the donkey work. And that if it fails Hearts will be going to court. That’s all the bargaining power we have.

Yeah, she should never have been the main face of this. Now it's all about Ann's proposals when it was supposed to a be a collective.

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glynnlondon
19 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Very true. The Daily Record in particular has run a large number of negative stories, the worst one being that we are in deep financial trouble. Absolute rag that portrays knife crime as a normal part of life.

Centre page spreads glorifying Glaswegian lowlifes is par for the course

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Jamboelite
4 hours ago, David McCaig said:

It is now 8 days since we were expelled and bar one cursory statement we have done nothing.

 

It now seems that we are accepting Championship sides not being prepared to play us?

 

Surely the solution is a 13 team SPL with 1 down next season and no promotion from a truncated Championship.

Just because Ann isnt giving you a personal phonecall doesnt mean we are doing nothing.
 

And no promotion next season for the Championship, so basically we shaft them over to get what we want......sounds familiar and exactly what we are having a pop at other clubs for doing.

 

 

 

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  • jkbmod 9 changed the title to SPFL declare league (2019/20) due to Covid (Arbitration panel upholds SPFL decision )
  • davemclaren changed the title to SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

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