SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Except they can't arbitrarily do that. See Jean-Marc Bosman.

Probably not but that is what they have said. 

[Last Laff]

3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

This idea sticks in the craw a lot but what if Rangers and Hearts agreed they would resign from membership of the SPFL if the vote goes ahead as is?

 

If the SPFL are going to be complete ******s the league being without 2 of the top 3 supported teams ****s the SPFL and the other teams right over

 

Also. We are in uncharted territory now. The Championship in England and English football in general may just be open to restructure with new teams from over the border....

Not a chance they would threaten to resign.  The huns live for Celtic matches and Budge wouldn’t take us out the league to start a way down the bottom of the league in England even if some miracle the agreed to it.  Why would the English Championship want Hearts in their league? The huns perhaps but it’s not as if the clubs would come as some kind of package. 

[Victorian]

Yeah.    Just wait until we see the next stage of this stitch up.     An amnesty of insolvency event sanctions is most likely.    That and other related snakery.

[Slim1874]

If we accept this without a fight, I am done with Scottish football.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Slim1874 said:

If we accept this without a fight, I am done with Scottish football.

Likewise.

[oi oi]

30 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I don’t know if it is or not, without studying the SFA rulebook. I’m hoping that the club lawyers will have a good idea if it is or not. 

It's the SPFL rulebook that is required. https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Articles of Association of 20-Jan-20 (clean).pdf

[Alan_R]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Fifa have already said that contracts expiring in May/June, now expire in January instead. 

 

I dont see that the contracts question is a big deal.

 

League registration more important here. Long as they are registered till end of season(whenever that may be) ie an extension

 

Then they can either leave when current contract expires or go on to a rolling contract till they do

 

Now that will mean some players will be released or leave technically before end of season but given all clubs in same boat it shouldnt pose too many issues? Most players will stay on the extra few months or sign pre contracts elsewhere.

 

[tightrope]

Hi Anne, FIFA say my contract is extended to January, not giving a flying one that we have been told we are relegated, I want my £3000 a week.....

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, sac said:

Not according to Gordon Smith, who said that clubs who might go into admin as a result of Coronavirus should not be penalised. ( no doubt to protect his beloved huns)

If that is the case, then there is an immediate amendment to rules, that the SFA/SPFL boards are saying they cant amend immediately. Funny that.

[Bunny Munro]

Not mentioning legal action and the phrase 'not the time for rules' is worrying. Perhaps AB has been told that we'll lose in court.

 

I'd have no issue with us pushing for a delaying tactic. We have the cash to survive, others will want this dealt with quickly.

[Squirt]

7 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

This idea sticks in the craw a lot but what if Rangers and Hearts agreed they would resign from membership of the SPFL if the vote goes ahead as is?

 

If the SPFL are going to be complete ******s the league being without 2 of the top 3 supported teams ****s the SPFL and the other teams right over

 

Also. We are in uncharted territory now. The Championship in England and English football in general may just be open to restructure with new teams from over the border....

 

I mean that's just not going to happen though is it. A warm thought to stick tqo fingers up to the SPFL and the other clubs but we need to keep our feet on the ground and discuss reasonable scenarios.

 

Nobody is dropping out of the SPFL and nor should they, IMO anyway.

[Squirt]

1 minute ago, tightrope said:

Hi Anne, FIFA say my contract is extended to January, not giving a flying one that we have been told we are relegated, I want my £3000 a week.....

 

Ooft, now there's a thought.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

Without reposting the long Lachlan Cameron Twitter statement think it’s fair to say that if the season is declared null and void then the SPFL has to refund sponsors. 
 

I read that English Premiership clubs were told to stop using the Statement Null and void for predictably the same reason.

 
Looks like Doncaster has sold us down the rivers and created this farcical situation by failing to read the small print.

That’s what I assumed but is there any substance to this?  I can’t see how it makes a shred of a difference to sponsors,  advertisers, tv broadcasters or ST holders whether it’s null and void after 30 games or called as is after 30 games - they’ve still broadcast, sponsored, advertised or attended a sporting event at the end of the day. It shouldn’t make any difference at all.  This argument that it didn’t take place so we want our money back is bullshit imo.  Will they be taking the goals off all the goal scorers if it’s null and void?  Will they ****!

[Uche]

Will be completely and utterly raging if we aren't exhausting every single angle conceivable in fighting automatic relegation.  Can kiss goodbye to Daniel if we go down. 

[Last Laff]

20 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

The same reasons they let Welsh teams join.

You would have thought some kind of Old Firm sides would have done this previously then. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s what I assumed but is there any substance to this?  I can’t see how it makes a shred of a difference to sponsors,  advertisers, tv broadcasters or ST holders whether it’s null and void after 30 games or called as is after 30 games - they’ve still broadcast, sponsored, advertised or attended a sporting event at the end of the day. It shouldn’t make any difference at all.  This argument that it didn’t take place so we want our money back is bullshit imo.  Will they be taking the goals off all the goal scorers if it’s null and void?  Will they ****!

By the same argument, they are maybe arguing that ST holders could ask for their full money back too. Utter nonsense.

[Yoda]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You must think Hibs didn't get relegated in 2014

I don't get your point.

 

If the season resumes I think we'll still finish bottom.  At which point, we'll only get saved if one of the other bottom 3 or 4 teams go into admin and get a points deduction.

 

Grim times.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

You would have thought some kind of Old Firm sides would have done this previously then. 

 

Nah.   Both wanted to join in the top division... and Celtic insisted on being reigning champions.

[jambopilms]

Can folk stop making out the club won't be fighting this as much as humanly possible. Mental to suggest the won't be fighting it.

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Fifa have already said that contracts expiring in May/June, now expire in January instead. 

How can that even be legal?

[Hectormasson]

7 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Not a chance they would threaten to resign.  The huns live for Celtic matches and Budge wouldn’t take us out the league to start a way down the bottom of the league in England even if some miracle the agreed to it.  Why would the English Championship want Hearts in their league? The huns perhaps but it’s not as if the clubs would come as some kind of package. 

But the SFA are f....g us right over ?   Next step ??

[Squirt]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

By the same argument, they are maybe arguing that ST holders could ask for their full money back too. Utter nonsense.

 

I'm doubtful anyone will even get their money back for the Livingston game, the one that genuinely didn't take place, let alone season tickets regardless of how this pans out.

[The Roller]

15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I agree. Despite previous statements mentioning it, this time there is no mention of taking legal advice (in fact it even says it’s no time for rules - surely if we were going down a legal route it would have to be on the grounds of rules being broken otherwise what would our reason for complaint be?).

 

I think AB is pinning all her hopes on the Rangers proposal but deep down is resigned to our fate.  There didn’t sound a lot of fight in that statement.

Yep.

[oi oi]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yes.    At the moment the rules say the games must be played before we are relegated.     If we insist that rules can be changed or ignored then others will say we can't rely on the rules that are in our favour.    We should push for pragmatism without insisting the rules can be overridden.    

In the SPFL Articles of Association read the section called Powers of the Board. We are signed up to these rules so I fear we are gubbed.

[luckydug]

27 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

This Club needs relegation like a hole in the head!! It will be a financial disaster as Budge knows!

Agreed ! 

It would be bad enough under normal circumstances but after a prolonged period of no income then the loss of income due to dropping down a league. 

Not even a windfall payment to help cover the losses. 

We've been done up like a kipper. 

However that doesn't mean we can't look after our club and **** everyone else. 

If we do end up getting shafted we could help OUR Club out by not attending away games and donating the equivalent cost of tickets to Hearts via FOH. 

At a rough guess we would have been taking a minimum 1500 fans to away grounds. 

At say £20 average price of a ticket gives 30k to our club 18 times a season by my sums 540k.

Not an insignificant amount and on top of FOH subscriptions could make the difference between sink or swim. 

Nobody else gives a **** about us we should return the sentiment and help ourselves in the process. 

[oi oi]

1 minute ago, Hectormasson said:

But the SFA are f....g us right over ?   Next step ??

Nothing to do with SFA. This is SPFL jurisdiction. 

[Hectormasson]

Just now, oi oi said:

Nothing to do with SFA. This is SPFL jurisdiction. 

Them then ?

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

By the same argument, they are maybe arguing that ST holders could ask for their full money back too. Utter nonsense.

Surely ST holders could ask for a refund either way though?  I don’t know if there is small print saying it is non refundable.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, oi oi said:

In the SPFL Articles of Association read the section called Powers of the Board. We are signed up to these rules so I fear we are gubbed.

 

If so then I go back to what I said before.    Privately accept where we are going but make things very nasty for the rest before we do.     

Edited April 8, 2020 by Victorian

[oi oi]

1 minute ago, Hectormasson said:

Them then ?

Absolutely but we are signed up to and bound by their articles of association so it will be mighty tough to get anything out of them. It's a joke.

[Morgan]

51 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Crap statement weak as piss.

 

It’s not crap, it’s sensible at this very early stage.

 

39 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

It’s called diplomacy.

 

That is very much the correct word 

 

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's a very strong statement. 

 

Maybe lost on many. 

 

That’s the way I read it, too.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, oi oi said:

In the SPFL Articles of Association read the section called Powers of the Board. We are signed up to these rules so I fear we are gubbed.

Is that the vague wording about 38 games or otherwise determined by the Board?  And how would that be affected now that the  Board are not making the call and instead passing the buck to the clubs?!

[Diadora Van Basten]

6 minutes ago, oi oi said:

In the SPFL Articles of Association read the section called Powers of the Board. We are signed up to these rules so I fear we are gubbed.

Coming to that conclusion if the SPFL declare the season is over (as is their power) then us as club 12 will be relegated. Would explain Ann trying to negotiate a better outcome for us rather than fighting it.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Diadora Van Basten

[Diadora Van Basten]

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Rules and Regulations 20-Jan-20 (MASTER COPY) CLEAN.pdf

 

C14 The Clubs for the time being entitled in terms of these Rules to participate in the Premiership shall, disregarding any abandoned or postponed matches, play in 38 League Matches in any one Season.

C17 At the end of each Season (following completion of all League Matches in the Premiership in that Season) the Club in position 12 in the Premiership shall be relegated to play and be eligible to participate in the Championship for and during the next Season.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Diadora Van Basten

[Cruyff]

15 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

 

I dont see that the contracts question is a big deal.

 

League registration more important here. Long as they are registered till end of season(whenever that may be) ie an extension

 

Then they can either leave when current contract expires or go on to a rolling contract till they do

 

Now that will mean some players will be released or leave technically before end of season but given all clubs in same boat it shouldnt pose too many issues? Most players will stay on the extra few months or sign pre contracts elsewhere.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How can that even be legal?

Who knows chaps. 

 

Fifa and UEFA should have taken charge of everything and decided all these things for member associations and clubs to agree on. Instead each one of them has kicked the can down the road on to the clubs to make all the decisions, probably to avoid litigation. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Cruyff

[oi oi]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

Is that the vague wording about 38 games or otherwise determined by the Board?  And how would that be affected now that the  Board are not making the call and instead passing the buck to the clubs?!

No. It is about how the board can change rules in unprecedented times. I suggest folk read the rules that bind us before lazily speculating. None of us want relegation but it's very tricky to see how we can avoid it other than reconstruction which us pie in the sky.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Surely ST holders could ask for a refund either way though?  I don’t know if there is small print saying it is non refundable.

I think those of us with a season  ticket should get a voucher for the shop or money off cup game next season 

[Deevers]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

The sound of scuttling would be deafening as they scurry back to their nest. Filth mongering Hibs scum. This place needs Rentokil. 

This place needs a deep clean.

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, Bunny Munro said:

Not mentioning legal action and the phrase 'not the time for rules' is worrying. Perhaps AB has been told that we'll lose in court.

 

I'd have no issue with us pushing for a delaying tactic. We have the cash to survive, others will want this dealt with quickly.

I fear you’re correct.

[Bunny Munro]

We should come out and say that we will refuse to accept any away briefs indefinitely if this is voted through. 

[oi oi]

Just now, Diadora Van Basten said:

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Rules and Regulations 20-Jan-20 (MASTER COPY) CLEAN.pdf

Yep. That and the Articles of association: https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Articles of Association of 20-Jan-20 (clean).pdf

[martoon]

Just now, Deevers said:

This place needs a deep clean.

 

👏

 

Pronto. 

[HMFC01]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

Who knows chaps. 

 

Fifa and UEFA should have taken charge of everything and decided all these things for member associations and clubs to agree on. Instead each one of them has kicked the can down the road on to the clubs to make all the decisions, probably to avoid litigation. 

You got a link where it says January, please.  All I got is this; 

With many player contracts scheduled to expire at the end of June, it has been agreed those deals will automatically extend until whenever the season eventually ends - with new deals beginning before the 2020-21 season starts.

[Dagger Is Back]

3 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

I think those of us with a season  ticket should get a voucher for the shop or money off cup game next season 

 

I think those of us with a ST have such a strong affinity with the club, despite this seasons woes, that we wouldn't even contemplate looking for or expecting, any kind of refund in any way shape or form

[HMFC01]

All this Fifa contract extention crap explains why we're doing deals.  Only the SPFL seem to have other ideas.  It's defineately interesting.

[Morgan]

7 minutes ago, Deevers said:

This place needs a deep clean.

[Kidd’s Boots]

5 minutes ago, oi oi said:

Yep. That and the Articles of association: https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL Articles of Association of 20-Jan-20 (clean).pdf

This is an interesting Power of the Board;

1. 103.3.  exercise all the powers of the Company to borrow or raise money and to mortgage or charge its assets and to issue debenture stock and other debt securities as security for any debt, liability or obligation of the Company or of any third party; 

[132goals1958]

3 hours ago, 2205ian said:

vs ICT? 

 

2 games played between them this season to date, both won by Partick Thistle.

 

Pools Panel - ICT win

 

Nuff said 

[heartandsoul]

4 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

I think those of us with a ST have such a strong affinity with the club, despite this seasons woes, that we wouldn't even contemplate looking for or expecting, any kind of refund in any way shape or form

This

[Morgan]

6 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

I think those of us with a ST have such a strong affinity with the club, despite this seasons woes, that we wouldn't even contemplate looking for or expecting, any kind of refund in any way shape or form

He’s stirring it again, Dagger.