SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Kidd’s Boots]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Was supposed to start tomorrow but delay upto a week apparently 

If the Arbitration panel has been appointed, I'd expected the Chairman will be keeping Lord Clark up to speed regarding timescales or any delaying tactics, and I'd imagine it won't  be just as a courtesy to His Lordship.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Kidd’s Boots

[jamboinglasgow]

17 minutes ago, Jambo Mac said:

If this is true then as I said previously it’s obvious it’s simply stalling tactics by SPFL to avoid reinstatement and get closer to 1st August in the hope of a stronger case, not in the fact the fixtures have been announced but we have not started training and will not be Covid testing-not sure if there is a period required of testing negative prior to being allowed to play

 

It does feel like that. Desperate to get to the start of August so it kicks off then they will turn round and say "sorry we cant just stop the league and start again." Then negotiate down compensation. People have also said on here that Doncaster is due a hefty bonus when the league kicks off from the Sky deal.

[wavydavy]

3 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

 

All part of the "Cummings" style ploy to sneak through full control for the SPFL Board, sorry, Llawell, for next season.

 

It means if football is stopped they can award 10 in a row and prevent promotion.

 

Exactly.

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It does feel like that. Desperate to get to the start of August so it kicks off then they will turn round and say "sorry we cant just stop the league and start again." Then negotiate down compensation. People have also said on here that Doncaster is due a hefty bonus when the league kicks off from the Sky deal.

 

That is what will happen in a nutshell. That is why Celtic were so desperate to get the fixtures published and out there then they have to get on with things and we will be nowhere near ready to kick a ball by August 1.

[McCrae]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

It does feel like that. Desperate to get to the start of August so it kicks off then they will turn round and say "sorry we cant just stop the league and start again." Then negotiate down compensation. People have also said on here that Doncaster is due a hefty bonus when the league kicks off from the Sky deal.

This won’t be allowed by the CoS. Part of the decision to allow arbitration to proceed was an undertaking the process would be over by 1st of August. No legal reason why the start of the season cannot be delayed if required.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Makes you wonder why they didn’t use this discretion to include no relegation in the Good Friday resolution.

Maybe couldn’t care less, at that time, as long as Celtic got their asterisk title, and Hamilton and St Mirren weren’t bottom.

 

That is why this all happened in the first place.

[Spellczech]

7 minutes ago, McCrae said:

This won’t be allowed by the CoS. Part of the decision to allow arbitration to proceed was an undertaking the process would be over by 1st of August. No legal reason why the start of the season cannot be delayed if required.

Indeed - It is in both parties interest to crack on. Hearts can get COS to stop the league on 31st July if they need to, but cannot do it unless the arbitration is still unresolved.

[Rogue Daddy]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Indeed - It is in both parties interest to crack on. Hearts can get COS to stop the league on 31st July if they need to, but cannot do it unless the arbitration is still unresolved.

If the SPFL are stalling, it would only strengthen our argument for an interdict if it came to that... which I hope it does!

[gashauskis9]

6 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

If the SPFL are stalling, it would only strengthen our argument for an interdict if it came to that... which I hope it does!

Would love for us to spoil all the pundits excitement about 1st August by doing this.  Getting on my tits how everything seems to be getting swept under the carpet ahead of that date.  

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Starting 2 weeks on Saturday this will be some spanner in the works.

 

Seems very unlikely now 

[Newton51]

Looking more like an out of court arbitration settlement 

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

What's so special about 65%, as opposed to, say, 79%? At least next season we'd all be playing knowing that the season might be curtailed after only, say, 65% of the season played, and budget accordingly, but that's a lot different than curtailing a season, completely out of the blue, but still relegating clubs who still had plenty of games to go to avoid relegation, while promoting clubs who hadn't yet won their leagues. Even if your reasoning is sound, it would still be very unreasonable and cruel to enforce some sort of double jeopardy on clubs like Hearts and Partick. At the same time, those clubs who'd been promoted would be handed a nice little reward of a reduced threat of relegation (along with all those clubs who voted to relegate us etc).

Sorry Ally ... not understanding your point.   I was just using 65% as an example  ........ but some criteria has to be in place to determine what happens next, in the event of an enforced indefinite curtailment  ... or else you end up with what's happened here.

 

At the root of the SPFL debacle is that the identity of the affected clubs was known prior to the vote on the April resolution -  and most clubs breathed a huge sigh of relief that  it wasn't them being disadvantaged and voted "yes".     If we play in the Championship and another big outbreak of Covid  occurs which curtails the season in January or February , then that's just tough - no-one will have deserved promotion or relegation at that stage anyway.     That's the basis of our current petition (along with breaches of company law by SPFL)

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Looking more like an out of court arbitration settlement 

 

I doubt you have anything to corroborate that post. 

[Boris]

14 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Sorry Ally ... not understanding your point.   I was just using 65% as an example  ........ but some criteria has to be in place to determine what happens next, in the event of an enforced indefinite curtailment  ... or else you end up with what's happened here.

 

At the root of the SPFL debacle is that the identity of the affected clubs was known prior to the vote on the April resolution -  and most clubs breathed a huge sigh of relief that  it wasn't them being disadvantaged and voted "yes".     If we play in the Championship and another big outbreak of Covid  occurs which curtails the season in January or February , then that's just tough - no-one will have deserved promotion or relegation at that stage anyway.     That's the basis of our current petition (along with breaches of company law by SPFL)

 

 

But if we are expelled, then the SPFL turn volte face and do that, why couldn't they have done the same now?

Edited July 13, 2020 by Boris

[Newton51]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I doubt you have anything to corroborate that post.  

Look at Belgium and France. They won against the leagues and neither team reinstated. 

 

new season in less than 3 weeks!  Even if we win at arbitration the league could just have another vote and status quo remains.

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Forrest said:

 

I fundamentally disagree with this bit. The sponsor is getting the exposure for 70% of the session, say, so they can have 30%, but IMO, there's no case for giving them a full refund. 

 

Any reason why seasons can't be played over whatever period is required to complete the fixtures, so eg we play this season over 2020-22?

It was a legal opinion (an opinion which suited the SPFL Board desire for an early end to the season based on PPG that allowed them to elect Celtic as "winners").

 

Question is : did the clubs then or now ever take their own legal advice on this point - because it remains relevant for this season given the risks of a 2nd outbreak. 

 

Re your final para : SPFL legal advice warned them Sky had paid for exclusive rights for 20/21 so if they planned to complete the 19/20 season it needed to be completed before 20/21 started or there might be refunds due on the new TV deal. 

That's why they never had any intention of completing the 19/20 season : the £32 million due under the new media contracts. No way was this to be put at risk. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

new season in less than 3 weeks!  Even if we win at arbitration the league could just have another vote and status quo remains.

 

In other words just like the rest of us you have no idea what is happening. 

[DETTY29]

Complete paranoia but the SPF L has picked someone who is in holiday.

 

Or Moynihan and Boreland can't make it because there is an air bubble agreement with where they were meant to be going which wasn't in place 10 days ago.😀

[HMFC01]

Mikey Stewart signing for Celtics punditry team.  Some folk were wondering where he went to.

Edited July 13, 2020 by HMFC01

[Riccarton3]

5 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

new season in less than 3 weeks!  Even if we win at arbitration the league could just have another vote and status quo remains.

Another vote on what??

[DETTY29]

22 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Looking more like an out of court arbitration settlement 

Out of court is out of arbitration too.

[jack D and coke]

7 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Jesus, imagine whoring yourself for those disgusting minks. 

Just when you think he can’t be a bigger knob and he does that. 
Is that all he could get? Working for that filth?

[busby1985]

Interdict. The arbitration will take a few days, maybe even a week. This all seems like delaying tactics to get the new season started before the arbitration starts. 

[Lone Striker]

25 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Looking more like an out of court arbitration settlement 

   What do you mean ?

[Newton51]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Another vote on what??

original vote to end the league. Even if we win the Dundee argument then could just have another vote. Delays the whole process even further. 

[Zinc Finger]

Surely if Hearts are relegated, the same logic dictates that the next team up should have to take part in play offs? Another exaple of hearts and only hearts being victimised by their SPFL  "colleagues"

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Newton51 said:

original vote to end the league. Even if we win the Dundee argument then could just have another vote. Delays the whole process even further. 

If Hearts won other than conpensation, the only vote would be for reconstruction to appease Cove etc

[OTT]

6 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Interdict. The arbitration will take a few days, maybe even a week. This all seems like delaying tactics to get the new season started before the arbitration starts. 

 

I agree. Its a big trigger to pull though as if we lose, can we not end up on the hook for any losses relating to a delay? 

 

To me, it absolutely stinks. We are still playing for reinstatement, so it looks like they are trying to run down the clock so that becomes no longer an option and can then try and low ball us a settlement amount. A two week delay via an interdict to starting the season will ensure this matter is concluded. 

[JTJ]

The Arbitration is being done on Company Law. If we win our case we are reinstated, we start training, the SPFL have to introduce a new fixture list and our first fixtures will have to be postponed.........  Our European "foursome" will be out of those Cups early with only one leg to play (anyone fancy Aberdeen away in Baku for a one-off game?) so free midweeks abound. I'm sure they'll make it hard for us, but if we're in the top league then we'll deal with it. No point in wetting the bed

[hearts00]

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

[jambo-in-furness]

7 hours ago, Heartsofgold said:

It's pure profit it, as we always do, the Jambo army turn up in significant numbers at Tynecastle and spend loads in the shop etc.

 

Compensation,  noun,   Something, typically money, awarded to someone In recognition of loss, suffering or injury.

 

 

 

 

[Mysterion]

30 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

Mikey Stewart signing for Celtics punditry team.  Some folk were wondering where he went to.

Not really a surprise that Stewart is involved. Celtic signed a deal with Sunset & Vine who produced all the BT Sport Scottish football coverage to do their match day coverage for the Virtual Season ticket stuff. The standards for Club TV output will be pretty high and possibly the best in Scotland.

[S Form]

6 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

Given the amount spent on legal fees £1m wouldn’t be much of a victory. Anything less than £2m would be a let down, to be honest.

[graygo]

21 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I agree. Its a big trigger to pull though as if we lose, can we not end up on the hook for any losses relating to a delay? 

 

To me, it absolutely stinks. We are still playing for reinstatement, so it looks like they are trying to run down the clock so that becomes no longer an option and can then try and low ball us a settlement amount. A two week delay via an interdict to starting the season will ensure this matter is concluded. 

 

I'm not sure how we could be liable for any losses. We have to argue to the court why an interdict should be issued and if they agree that it is an acceptable request then I can't see how we could then be punished for it.

[graygo]

11 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

 

Without doing an audit of our finances you have no idea what our losses might be. 

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

£1 million !!! Barely covers our fees and wouldn’t be any kind of victory. Our chances of reinstatement are exactly the same as they were the day we lodged the petition. The fact that the SPFL are carrying on as if this isn’t happening and the SFA seem to be acting along with them to delay the hearing, and the fixtures are out and the government has confirmed football can start and Sky TV think we’re starting in less than 3 weeks -  all totally irrelevant to the likelihood of reinstatement.

Edited July 13, 2020 by JimmyCant

[south morroccan]

45 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

new season in less than 3 weeks!  Even if we win at arbitration the league could just have another vote and status quo remains.

Lord Clark asked the SPFL counsel what would happen if we won at arbitration but the season had begun. He was assured that it would have to be stopped and restarted.

[Captain Canada]

£1 million compensation and playing in the Championship would be an awful result. We were £400k down on projected income last season even before football shut down and while that's not the SPFL's fault, it shows our finances weren't quite on track. We'll have lost/will lose a huge amount more if we're playing 27 league games maximum next season. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Captain Canada

[Jambo66]

37 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

original vote to end the league. Even if we win the Dundee argument then could just have another vote. Delays the whole process even further. 

Extremely unlikely. In the first place, if we win, there is every possibility that we succeed in the "unfairly prejudicial" argument as well. If that is the case, the SPFL won't be able run another vote at all. If they tried to do so, there would be the fastest interdict ever.

 

Even if we only win on the Dundee vote, it is doubtful that there is enough time to force another vote. We would probably seek an interdict to prevent it from happening anyway.

 

Finally, there is little prospect to my mind that they would even win such a vote. Remember, it only succeeded by one (dodgy) vote the last time and the clubs now know that they were told a pack of lies.

[Jambo66]

10 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

£1 million !!! Barely covers our fees and wouldn’t be any kind of victory. Our chances of reinstatement are exactly the same as they were the day we lodged the petition. The fact that the SPFL are carrying on as if this isn’t happening and the SFA seem to be acting along with them to delay the hearing, and the fixtures are out and the government has confirmed football can start and Sky TV think we’re starting -  all totally irrelevant to the likelihood ood of reinstatement.

This

[Diadora Van Basten]

9 minutes ago, south morroccan said:

Lord Clark asked the SPFL counsel what would happen if we won at arbitration but the season had begun. He was assured that it would have to be stopped and restarted.

I don’t think that’s right I think it was the Calpol 3 QC who said that.

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

£1 million compensation and playing in the Championship would be an awful result. We were £400k down on projected income last season even before football shut down and while that's not the SPFL's fault, it shows our finances weren't quite on track. We'll have lost/will lose a huge amount more if we're playing 27 league games maximum next season. 

Some people go on like this is a free box of money we’re looking for. What we are looking for, if it’s compensation only, is every single penny we can prove is lost And will be lost because of an erroneous and illegal decision taken in bad faith. I doubt we can prove £8 million right enough but we’re certainly not going to accept an amount that pats us on the head and sends us back to our corner. 

[Thomaso]

25 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

What data did you use to ascertain your 5% calculation?

[south morroccan]

6 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I don’t think that’s right I think it was the Calpol 3 QC who said that.

There is no way a judge in the Court of Session would ask that question of the Calpol 3 as they could not possibly give an answer.  He asked the SPFL counsel who responded as I stated that the season would have to be stopped.

[niblick1874]

7 hours ago, Martin_T said:

 

Time will tell.

 

We don't have time.  

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Sorry Ally ... not understanding your point.   I was just using 65% as an example  ........ but some criteria has to be in place to determine what happens next, in the event of an enforced indefinite curtailment  ... or else you end up with what's happened here.

 

At the root of the SPFL debacle is that the identity of the affected clubs was known prior to the vote on the April resolution -  and most clubs breathed a huge sigh of relief that  it wasn't them being disadvantaged and voted "yes".     If we play in the Championship and another big outbreak of Covid  occurs which curtails the season in January or February , then that's just tough - no-one will have deserved promotion or relegation at that stage anyway.     That's the basis of our current petition (along with breaches of company law by SPFL)

 

 

Sorry, too,  but I just don't get the idea that it can be alright to set a criteria after the fact. Surely if it is wrong to relegate/promote when less than 65% (or whatever) it is equally wrong to do it when only 79% has been played. Added to which, to say, on the season following a relegation/promotion after only 79% of games played that the league is setting a criteria below which promotion won't be allowed, surely highlights the unfairness of the original decision while putting the relegated teams in a form of double jeopardy. What you are saying might be fine if there had been no relegation this time, ie reconstruction, but to deny any club just relegated under the circumstances that occurred the season just finished the right to return under the same circumstances would be more than cruel. I'd suggest that should the same disaster befall us next season that it should be set up before the season starts to, either, have the top two clubs promoted, or the top four play off for two promotions with reconstruction then implemented. It has to be something where the clubs relegated now retain the right to gain promotion next season, or, as I say, it is a form of double jeopardy of the cruelest kind (in sporting terms)..

[manaliveits105]

Well everyone seems to having a prediction so I’ve no doubts it will be a win and reinstatement  

[Jambo-Fox]

At 3:30pm this Friday 17th verdict delivered - full squad briefing light training Saturday & Sunday 18th/19th! Followed by 2 weeks intensive training before 1st game on 1st August!

[Drumjambo]

1 hour ago, hearts00 said:

Anything over £1m in compensation I would view as a victory here. 
 

The chances of reinstatement must be less than 5% now. 

 

That very much depends if the panel find the SPFL shenanigans legal or not 

[Maple Leaf]

54 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Some people go on like this is a free box of money we’re looking for. What we are looking for, if it’s compensation only, is every single penny we can prove is lost And will be lost because of an erroneous and illegal decision taken in bad faith. I doubt we can prove £8 million right enough but we’re certainly not going to accept an amount that pats us on the head and sends us back to our corner. 

 

Correct.  A point that should never be overlooked!