SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[1874robbo]

16 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

So if the clubs vote to give Doncaster the power to do what he wants, they're bonkers.  You'd expect the bottom (Championship) club next season to say "no relegation" but the top club will say "yes promotion" and the others will filter into one camp or other depending on where they are and whether there would be play-offs.  However, any discussion about clubs deciding would be off the table as ND will decide (after checking with Celtic and maybe Rangers).

 

Obvs, as a Hearts fan, I'm not saying member club votes always give the best results but would we rather have Doncaster and his cronies decide things - particularly after the "the SPFL will push through reconstruction regardless" chat?

 

 

I wouldn’t trust either the clubs or Doncaster on that one.

this whole farce has shown us all that we can never ever trust most chairmen and any of the spfl or sfa board 

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

That compound interest, as I understand it, relies on none of the original sum being repaid until end of year 4 which would be braw (if we could stand it) but with some being repaid as we  go the overall total decreases with each payment...I think...we need a money whizz-kid to do the sums!

 

 

That sounds right to be fair.

[Beast Boy]

28 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Its the only way to get ahead in Scottish Football. 

[Martin_T]

5 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ahh, Sorry you`re one of them. "This is not the Flu" but you base your scaremongering on a flu, that happened 100 years ago. 

 

What is one of them? The likelihood of a second wave is unknown, but given that the level of antibodies present in the population is ranging at 5 to 7%, it is likely that the virus will be with us until a vaccine is found. Hence we are being required to wear face masks in shops etc.

[Andrew Gilbert Wauchope]

4 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ahh, Sorry you`re one of them. "This is not the Flu" but you base your scaremongering on a flu, that happened 100 years ago. 

Influenza and Covid-19 are both viral infections which spread in very simalr ways, have similar impacts and both can - and do - kill, where no treatment is available or where the person catching it is vulnerable.  The comparision with the 1918 flu epidemic is therefore valid and you're not doing anyone any favours with your disdainful attitude.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, willie wallace said:

I am sure it was a proposal by the SPFL if there was another outbreak of  Covid or any other extraordinary circumstances.

Don't think it had gone any further than that.

 

 

Yes it was proposed but as you say it has gone no further at the moment. Guaranteed if we lose and are in the Championship then they will be desperate to have their vote to try and get approval to stop promotion and relegation.

[Beast Boy]

52 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

2nd wave based on what? The media?

The experts that say it is likely, I suppose. Of course others say it’s not likely, but nobody is in a position to say either way for sure.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you?

 

That is not part of what our case is about unfortunately it is about our relegation/expulsion from the league this season.

 

I am sure we would hope that a deal could be struck on this but it has nothing to do with the Arbitration Panel that I am aware of.

[Beast Boy]

13 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Ahh, Sorry you`re one of them. "This is not the Flu" but you base your scaremongering on a flu, that happened 100 years ago. 

Are you an epidemiologist, Walter?

[Walter Bishop]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

What is one of them? The likelihood of a second wave is unknown, but given that the level of antibodies present in the population is ranging at 5 to 7%, it is likely that the virus will be with us until a vaccine is found. Hence we are being required to wear face masks in shops etc.

And if it is, it is. Ongoing T-Cell studies show these to be more of a defence than antibodies. A vaccine is not the be all and end all here and holding out for one will ruin more lives than covid-19. 

 

Facemask in shops is a placebo, An attempt in trying to encourage those that have been frightened to death by government propaganda and the media  to get out and spend money. 

[Walter Bishop]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Are you an epidemiologist, Walter?

Are you? 

[AndrewB]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Yes it was proposed but as you say it has gone no further at the moment. Guaranteed if we lose and are in the Championship then they will be desperate to have their vote to try and get approval to stop promotion and relegation.

Yes, it has gone further than that.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/spfl-board-seeks-power-deal-covid-19-emergencies-2894267

 

[Martin_T]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

And if it is, it is. Ongoing T-Cell studies show these to be more of a defence than antibodies. A vaccine is not the be all and end all here and holding out for one will ruin more lives than covid-19. 

 

Facemask in shops is a placebo, An attempt in trying to encourage those that have been frightened to death by government propaganda and the media  to get out and spend money. 

 

Time will tell.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Walter Bishop said:

Are you? 

No, and that’s why I wouldn’t presume to know whether or not a second wave is likely. Actual virologists and epidemiologist disagree on the likelihood of a second wave, so I’d say it’s legitimate to prepare for the possibility. 
 

On the one hand the other coronavirus outbreaks of SARS and MERS didn’t do a second wave, but on the other hand, C19 is far more infectious.

[Walter Bishop]

2 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

No, and that’s why I wouldn’t presume to know whether or not a second wave is likely. Actual virologists and epidemiologist disagree on the likelihood of a second wave, so I’d say it’s legitimate to prepare for the possibility. 
 

On the one hand the other coronavirus outbreaks of SARS and MERS didn’t do a second wave, but on the other hand, C19 is far more infectious.

Agree with all of that, though infection rate of c19 is is not really comparable as not everyone who has symptons for other viral/bacterial diseases are tested. 

 

[wavydavy]

9 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

Yes, it has gone further than that.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/spfl-board-seeks-power-deal-covid-19-emergencies-2894267

 

 

No it hasn't. The vote to give them the powers has not taken place as yet. If it has then I am not aware of it and have never seen what the outcome is.

 

That article you put the link for just says that Doncaster ahs written to all the clubs asking to give the Board the power to make the decision but can you show me the results of that vote please?

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Walter Bishop said:

Agree with all of that, though infection rate of c19 is is not really comparable as not everyone who has symptons for other viral/bacterial diseases are tested. 

 

Definitely. It’s pretty uncharted territory since it’s such a different strain of virus. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst I’d say. 😬

[mitch41]

6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

No, and that’s why I wouldn’t presume to know whether or not a second wave is likely. Actual virologists and epidemiologist disagree on the likelihood of a second wave, so I’d say it’s legitimate to prepare for the possibility. 
 

On the one hand the other coronavirus outbreaks of SARS and MERS didn’t do a second wave, but on the other hand, C19 is far more infectious.

Long term effects of this virus could be worse than originally anticipated. Nobody can know if football can survive this because former Covid-19 Patients have had issues with Psychosis, Insomnia, Kidney Disease, Spinal Infections and Mobility Issues.

[AndrewB]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

No it hasn't. The vote to give them the powers has not taken place as yet. If it has then I am not aware of it and have never seen what the outcome is.

 

That article you put the link for just says that Doncaster ahs written to all the clubs asking to give the Board the power to make the decision but can you show me the results of that vote please?

I posted a link to the BBC site earlier (an hour or so ago).  The 28 days hasn't been reached yet (in the next week or so).  So, they haven't yet reached the threshold for votes.

 

We're probably splitting hairs a bit about whether it has "gone any further" or not.  It has in as much it is more than kite flying as the clubs have been asked to approve it but then it hasn't in as much as it hasn't (yet) happened.

 

Just hoping clubs haven't been thick enough to give Doncaster any more powers.

 

[graygo]

26 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Yes it was proposed but as you say it has gone no further at the moment. Guaranteed if we lose and are in the Championship then they will be desperate to have their vote to try and get approval to stop promotion and relegation.

 

It has gone further, the clubs have till Friday to vote on it 

 

Edit: Sorry, already stated by AndrewB

Edited July 13, 2020 by graygo

[OmiyaHearts]

19 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

And if it is, it is. Ongoing T-Cell studies show these to be more of a defence than antibodies. A vaccine is not the be all and end all here and holding out for one will ruin more lives than covid-19. 

 

Facemask in shops is a placebo, An attempt in trying to encourage those that have been frightened to death by government propaganda and the media  to get out and spend money. 

So, you're saying tens of millions of people in Japan, who wear masks in flu season and when they are ill, are wasting their time?

 

Someone better let them know..

[wavydavy]

8 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It has gone further, the clubs have till Friday to vote on it 

 

Edit: Sorry, already stated by AndrewB

 

I wonder if any votes will go missing or be changed?

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Walter Bishop said:

Confirmed, Reason you havent heard much of Michael Stewart on BBC. 

 

Celtic Football Club (from 

@CelticFC

59m

 

Exciting matchday line-up confirmed for your Pass to Paradise! These stars will join our existing

@CelticTV

presentation team and will feature across the season:

 

@chris_sutton73

@JohnHartson10

Gordon Strachan

@mstewart_23

@HamiltonRory

**** you, Stewart 🙂

[Walter Bishop]

6 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

So, you're saying tens of millions of people in Japan, who wear masks in flu season and when they are ill, are wasting their time?

 

Someone better let them know..

The same Japan that had one of its worst flu seasons in 2018/19? 

 

[wavydavy]

12 minutes ago, AndrewB said:

I posted a link to the BBC site earlier (an hour or so ago).  The 28 days hasn't been reached yet (in the next week or so).  So, they haven't yet reached the threshold for votes.

 

We're probably splitting hairs a bit about whether it has "gone any further" or not.  It has in as much it is more than kite flying as the clubs have been asked to approve it but then it hasn't in as much as it hasn't (yet) happened.

 

Just hoping clubs haven't been thick enough to give Doncaster any more powers.

 

 

I very much doubt it. They will give him the backing he requires especially if they think it can keep us down for more than one season assuming we were to win the league and be in the Championship.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Whilst it has not been mentioned officially it has been suggested this will happen due to the Championship not completing a full season. Would you happily take the money not knowing whether or not there will be promotion? Should it transpire compo is the way forward we MUST get it in writing there will be promotion, as with all the ill will floating about, you can bet they would vote no should it come to that. I personally wouldn't take the risk, would you?

There really is a simple solution to this.

 

If the panel decides we have been “wronged”, and for whatever reason, they deem reinstatement is not possible for this season, then we should receive compensation for each and every season we remain outside of the top flight, until such times as we return to the Premier. Full compensation to come out of the broadcasting deals at the start of each and every season.

 

If the above  happens, I think you will find that none of the clubs would relish the prospect of large chunks of their share of that pot being ring-fenced and we would pretty quickly find ourselves back where we belong.

 

I hope that sort of compensation has been spelled out in our claim.

[Benny Factor]

1 hour ago, 1874robbo said:

You can guarantee that if a vote comes about to have no promotion or relegation it’ll get a big thumbs up!! What a lovely way for them to get one over us!

If their argument was/is that it’s only a 27 game league so not right to have promotion we can always say it was only 30 this season and you relegated and promoted on the strength of that.

Utd, Raith and Cove were all promoted having only played 28 games, so that blows their argument right out of the water. 

[Benny Factor]

.

Edited July 13, 2020 by EarnockJambo
double post

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

We had a Sporting Director in the Championship last time, so don't see what your point is?

 

Ann needs someone to be a bridge between the Board and Football side.

No great point, just that we have stopped searching for one at the start of a week in which our immediate to short term future will be decided, and often the decision to do away with a high earning position, in any company, comes at a time of projected reduced earning capacity. I'd suggest that in a league we might expect to find less of a challenge, the need for a bridge between the Board and Football is less of a priority. It goes without saying that I hope I am 100% wrong, and I'd be delighted if you could convince me I am, but of all the indications as to how things might be going, this, to me, is the first that has caused me to doubt our chances of success, other than my own natural pessimism.

[Jambo66]

5 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

No great point, just that we have stopped searching for one at the start of a week in which our immediate to short term future will be decided, and often the decision to do away with a high earning position, in any company, comes at a time of projected reduced earning capacity. I'd suggest that in a league we might expect to find less of a challenge, the need for a bridge between the Board and Football is less of a priority. It goes without saying that I hope I am 100% wrong, and I'd be delighted if you could convince me I am, but of all the indications as to how things might be going, this, to me, is the first that has caused me to doubt our chances of success, other than my own natural pessimism.

I make a point of never, ever believing anything that is reported by The Sun newspaper, until and unless it has been confirmed independently by a reliable source.

 

Has that happened yet?

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

It's not up to me or Hearts but the votes of the other 41 clubs if there is to be promotioon at the end of next season.

And that's the same 41 clubs that had the vote that brought us to where we are now...before they viewed us as the villains of the piece. If we end up in the Championship this coming season, I'd have no confidence we'd be promoted, even if we'd already secured it at the time of any similar Covid problems as the season progresses.

[manaliveits105]

promotion/relegation/expulsion is ok this year in a shortened season but if it happens again it wont be allowed and you will just have to stay in the lower division - hmmmm - would that include no league titles being awarded - no 9.79 iar ?

I would happily get involved in civil unrest if this bullshit were to come to pass,

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

promotion/relegation/expulsion is ok this year in a shortened season but if it happens again it wont be allowed and you will just have to stay in the lower division - hmmmm - would that include no league titles being awarded - no 9.79 iar ?

I would happily get involved in civil unrest if this bullshit were to come to pass,

Who is proposing this?

[Bazzas right boot]

Strachan not dof at Dundee or something like that. 

Surely he's not working for Dundee and celtic TV.... 

 

Xx He's technical director at Dundee and a celtic TV pundit, Ffs. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Hungry hippo]

Even though I could not trust the SPFL any less I still think the likelihood of the board using powers to block us being promoted next season is really remote. They would be leaving themselves so open to challenge it would be unreal.

 

I also think it's unlikely that the virus will get to such a stage in the UK again that football will need to be stopped for months. Reverting to BCD is very possible but I'll be very surprised if we can't complete the season.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

We had a Sporting Director in the Championship last time, so don't see what your point is?

 

Ann needs someone to be a bridge between the Board and Football side.

Why does Ann need a bridge between the manager/head coach and the Board?. Sporting/Football Directors are generally relatively low paid administrators compared the the manager/head coach (cerrtainly at the level we operate). and are often virtual unknowns, (the Guardian published a list of head coaches/managers and sporting/football Directors in the English leagues together with their salaries which bore that out). The manager/head coach should report directly to and be accountable to the Board.  Otherwise as we have seen to our cost the dual role with manager reporting through an FD or SD just breeds confusion and lack of accountability and gets in the way of taking action quickly when the manager/head coach is not delivering performances and results on the pitch. If Ann needs advice on football matters she should appoint a Board Director or two who is qualified to give her and the other Board members that advice. Separate of course from employees and the reporting structure of club employees.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Francis Albert

[hughesie27]

Am I right in think we are currently in the middle of the 28 day period for teams to vote for the SPFLs resolution on handing them emergency powers for next season?

[wavydavy]

7 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

And that's the same 41 clubs that had the vote that brought us to where we are now...before they viewed us as the villains of the piece. If we end up in the Championship this coming season, I'd have no confidence we'd be promoted, even if we'd already secured it at the time of any similar Covid problems as the season progresses.

 

Well we should know the outcome of the vote after Friday according to some of the guys on here.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

promotion/relegation/expulsion is ok this year in a shortened season but if it happens again it wont be allowed and you will just have to stay in the lower division - hmmmm - would that include no league titles being awarded - no 9.79 iar ?

I would happily get involved in civil unrest if this bullshit were to come to pass,

 

Tbh, games should just be played behind closed doors. 

It's been proven it can be done relatively easy. 

 

If they done this, I wouldn't go to a game next season( St bought) and I'd give up on Scottish football after that. I'd become a barcelona sky boy fan and not put another penny into the game in this country. 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

19 minutes ago, Jambo66 said:

I make a point of never, ever believing anything that is reported by The Sun newspaper, until and unless it has been confirmed independently by a reliable source.

 

Has that happened yet?

As I said, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, and maybe the fact that it is being reported in the Sun means it's not true, but then, what if it is true? Again, though, if it's true, hopefully I am 100% wrong in what I am reading into halting the search for a sports director.

[graygo]

12 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well we should know the outcome of the vote after Friday according to some of the guys on here.

 

 

 

I mentioned Friday, according to this article from the 22nd June they have 28 days so 19th or 20th July.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/spfl-board-seeks-power-deal-covid-19-emergencies-2894267

Edited July 13, 2020 by graygo

[wavydavy]

18 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Who is proposing this?

 

SPFL letter from Doncaster to all clubs.

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I mentioned Friday, according to this article from the 22nd June they have 28 days so 19th or 20th July.

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/spfl-board-seeks-power-deal-covid-19-emergencies-2894267

👍

[MattyK82]

I didn’t hear this on the radio, but Mr Black is suggesting, arbitration kicks off on Thursday.

 

If true, and if all material documentation was indeed lodged by last Friday, perhaps that means there’s quite a lot to examine 👀 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by MattyK82

[Beast Boy]

Hand the SPFL emergency powers in a time of crisis? Where have I seen this before? 🤔

 

"So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause."

 

Frankly Peter Sidious and Darth Doncaster can shove that right up their farters.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, MattyK82 said:

I didn’t hear this on the radio, but Mr Black is suggesting, arbitration kicks off on Thursday.

 

If true, and if all necessary documentation was indeed lodged by last Friday, perhaps that means there’s quite a lot to examine 👀 

 

 

Wonder how long its expected to take?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Why does Ann need a bridge between the manager/head coach and the Board?. Sporting/Football Directors are generally relatively low paid administrators compared the the manager/head coach (cerrtainly at the level we operate). and are often virtual unknowns, (the Guardian published a list of head coaches/managers and sporting/football Directors in the English leagues together with their salaries which bore that out). The manager/head coach should report directly to and be accountable to the Board.  Otherwise as we have seen to our cost the dual role with manager reporting through an FD or SD just breeds confusion and lack of accountability and gets in the way of taking action quickly when the manager/head coach is not delivering performances and results on the pitch. If Ann needs advice on football matters she should appoint a Board Director or two who is qualified to give her and the other Board members that advice. Separate of course from employees and the reporting structure of club employees.

 

The SD isn't going to be a bridge. Under the new structure both the manager and SD report directly to Budge.

[Flimsy]

16 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

Even though I could not trust the SPFL any less I still think the likelihood of the board using powers to block us being promoted next season is really remote. They would be leaving themselves so open to challenge it would be unreal.

 

I also think it's unlikely that the virus will get to such a stage in the UK again that football will need to be stopped for months. Reverting to BCD is very possible but I'll be very surprised if we can't complete the season.

I might be extremely naive, but I think one of the reasons the SPFL are wanting executive power over Covid ending 2020/21 season early is so that the clubs don't put the boot into Hearts again.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

41 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

No great point, just that we have stopped searching for one at the start of a week in which our immediate to short term future will be decided, and often the decision to do away with a high earning position, in any company, comes at a time of projected reduced earning capacity. I'd suggest that in a league we might expect to find less of a challenge, the need for a bridge between the Board and Football is less of a priority. It goes without saying that I hope I am 100% wrong, and I'd be delighted if you could convince me I am, but of all the indications as to how things might be going, this, to me, is the first that has caused me to doubt our chances of success, other than my own natural pessimism.

 

Maybe the candidates so far have indicated they'd rather wait until we know what's what after the case. Their job is largely dependent on working with the transfer budget as well as shaping the youth academy etc. Depending how the court case goes, they could be working in the championship with no compensation and serious cuts, or in the championship with some money to work with or in the premiership with a decent budget. That's 3 different jobs almost.

Edited July 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

14 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well we should know the outcome of the vote after Friday according to some of the guys on here.

 

 

The thing is, this upcoming vote, regardless of which way it goes, it doesn't secure us promotion (if we win it) if we have the same curtailment of the season as we had this time. There would be, in all likelihood, another vote to decide what happens, and this time round, with only a 27 game competition, we could see it ending with only, say, 20 games played, leaving the 'not enough games played to merit promotion' argument with plenty of backers. In other words, should the season end prematurely, we will face a lottery whether the SPFL find this proposal accepted, or not.