SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Pistol1874]

52 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

**** you, Stewart 🙂

Presumably Bonner missed out for being too partisan?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Walter Bishop said:

And if it is, it is. Ongoing T-Cell studies show these to be more of a defence than antibodies. A vaccine is not the be all and end all here and holding out for one will ruin more lives than covid-19. 

 

Facemask in shops is a placebo, An attempt in trying to encourage those that have been frightened to death by government propaganda and the media  to get out and spend money. 

 

If you sneeze or cough near someone while you are out and about with COVID, but are asymptomatic so don't know, is there more chance of you infecting someone else if you are not wearing a face mark. Yes or no?

Edited July 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Beast Boy]

Anyway, there is no virus. It is all a big ‘War of the Worlds’ style scam by 3M to take over the galaxy.

[tian447]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Anyway, there is no virus. It is all a big ‘War of the Worlds’ style scam by 3M to take over the galaxy.

 

Sounds like a sticky situation!

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Maybe the candidates so far have indicated they'd rather wait until we know what's what after the case. Their job is largely dependent on working with the transfer budget as well as shaping the youth academy etc. Depending how the court case goes, they could be working in the championship with no compensation and serious cuts, or in the championship with some money to work with or in the premiership with a decent budget. That's 3 different jobs almost.

You could be correct, and it's quite a good hypothesis you suggest. Maybe I'm just looking for something to reduce my expectations.

[davemclaren]

12 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

SPFL letter from Doncaster to all clubs.

Proposing no promotion/relegation next season?

[Lovecraft]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

If you sneeze or cough near someone while you are out and about with COVID, but are asymptomatic so don't know, is there more chance of you infecting someone else if you are not wearing a face mark. Yes or no?

Everyone in America knows that face masks do nothing to protect people from the spread of COVID.

 

Face masks are just the propaganda of the left to take away civil liberties.

 

 

People with asymptomatic COVID should be allowed to go about coughing, sneezing and SPREADING wherever they like.

 

 

 

[wavydavy]

8 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

The thing is, this upcoming vote, regardless of which way it goes, it doesn't secure us promotion (if we win it) if we have the same curtailment of the season as we had this time. There would be, in all likelihood, another vote to decide what happens, and this time round, with only a 27 game competition, we could see it ending with only, say, 20 games played, leaving the 'not enough games played to merit promotion' argument with plenty of backers. In other words, should the season end prematurely, we will face a lottery whether the SPFL find this proposal accepted, or not.

 

Yes I know what the outcome would be unfortunately there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We are in the hands of the other clubs. The Premiership clubs are all going to vote for it to keep themselves safe. The only ones who will vote the other way are those that think they will be in contention to win their leagues which will be nowhere near the 75% majority required.

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

I might be extremely naive, but I think one of the reasons the SPFL are wanting executive power over Covid ending 2020/21 season early is so that the clubs don't put the boot into Hearts again.

 

[Rods]

I cant see that resolution getting passed. 

 

Teams have been stung already with their last mess up. Also it may pass in the premier league but no way will it happen in the championship and lower divisions you are effectively voting to say Doncaster and the current board are in charge of promotion. 

[John Findlay]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Proposing no promotion/relegation next season?

No proposing that if a future pandemic or any other crisis needs the curtailment of the season, the SPFL board can do this without the need of a vote from the members. I.E. the clubs.

[wavydavy]

11 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Proposing no promotion/relegation next season?

 

It is to grant the SPFL Board the power to do various things in the event of another Covid 19 effect on the league games which includes no promotion or relegation.

 

https://news.stv.tv/sport/spfl-asks-clubs-to-grant-board-emergency-powers-for-next-season?noq

Edited July 13, 2020 by wavydavy

[Lovecraft]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

I cant see that resolution getting passed. 

 

Teams have been stung already with their last mess up. Also it may pass in the premier league but no way will it happen in the championship and lower divisions you are effectively voting to say Doncaster and the current board are in charge of promotion. 

 What was the % of clubs asking for an independent inquiry?

 

What % of clubs need to approve changes to the latest request?

 

 

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Rods said:

I cant see that resolution getting passed. 

 

Teams have been stung already with their last mess up. Also it may pass in the premier league but no way will it happen in the championship and lower divisions you are effectively voting to say Doncaster and the current board are in charge of promotion. 

Exactly! Who in their right minds would look at the mess they created with their first resolution and every massive **** up and lie since, and think: “aye, let’s let these ****ers make the decisions for us, without any input from us”. 
 

I mean Jesus ****ing Christ!

[neilnunb]

I see the joe_black twitter account is saying Thursday for the arbitration starting.

 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Yes I know what the outcome would be unfortunately there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We are in the hands of the other clubs. The Premiership clubs are all going to vote for it to keep themselves safe. The only ones who will vote the other way are those that think they will be in contention to win their leagues which will be nowhere near the 75% majority required.

And that is why, regardless of what compensation we might get, I dread the thought of relegation. Well, actually, I dread the thought of relegation anyway as it is sickening at any time, and no amount of money could ever make up for that loss of status and blight on our record.

[Bazzas right boot]

If top flight teams can vote to protect themselves from relegation then the competition is done. 

 

[Jambo Mac]

8 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Proposing no promotion/relegation next season?

I’m still not getting this. I thought it was extra powers should the season be ended early again. If it is to have these powers even should a full season be played then we could have a full season of friendlies  I must be missing something

[indianajones]

26 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Hand the SPFL emergency powers in a time of crisis? Where have I seen this before? 🤔

 

"So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause."

 

Frankly Peter Sidious and Darth Doncaster can shove that right up their farters.

 

'I AM THE SENATE' - Doncaster. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, Martin_T said:

A concern that I have regarding a Championship season with an October start, is that the timing could coincide with emergence of a second wave of Covid-19. It would surely be better just to start in August and then shorten the season if necessary?

 

I'm far more worried about Dungcaster and his cronies get the power they want to control the game and make decisions without club involvement. 

[DETTY29]

28 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The SD isn't going to be a bridge. Under the new structure both the manager and SD report directly to Budge.

Maybe Levein and MacPhee are reporting to AB on a consultancy retainer basis....

 

Sure the invoices could get hidden somewhere.

 

(Kidding........)

Edited July 13, 2020 by DETTY29

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No proposing that if a future pandemic or any other crisis needs the curtailment of the season, the SPFL board can do this without the need of a vote from the members. I.E. the clubs.

Yes, I know. People seem to think this will necessarily mean no promotion or relegation. No different risk if the clubs vote on it imo. 

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

I see the joe_black twitter account is saying Thursday for the arbitration starting.

 

 

Where did you see that? Peebles town notice board? 😉

[JimmyCant]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Yes, I know. People seem to think this will necessarily mean no promotion or relegation. No different risk if the clubs vote on it imo. 

So no promotion or relegation is right and fair if a season finishes early due to a pandemic.........except in the case of the season just ended for that very reason ?

[neilnunb]

4 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Where did you see that? Peebles town notice board? 😉

 

🤣 in fairness, I have been dozing off quite a bit today. 🤭

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yes, I know. People seem to think this will necessarily mean no promotion or relegation. No different risk if the clubs vote on it imo. 

 

If it affects us then you can be sure the clubs will make sure we stay down.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

So no promotion or relegation is right and fair if a season finishes early due to a pandemic.........except in the case of the season just ended for that very reason ?

No, but leaving any decision in the hands of the board is just as safe/risky as leaving it up to the self interested clubs imo.  The Process to be followed on an unplanned suspension needs to be agreed up front but there is clear precedent set for this season coming imo. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

If it affects us then you can be sure the clubs will make sure we stay down.

Won’t the board?

[wavydavy]

18 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 What was the % of clubs asking for an independent inquiry?

 

What % of clubs need to approve changes to the latest request?

 

 

 

I don't know the answer to the first question but on the second the answer is 75% which equates to 32 clubs need to approve.

[wavydavy]

4 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

No, but leaving any decision in the hands of the board is just as safe/risky as leaving it up to the self interested clubs imo.  The Process to be followed on an unplanned suspension needs to be agreed up front but there is clear precedent set for this season coming imo. 

 

 

Just a reminder of the faith AB has in the SPFL. Below is an extract taken from her recent comments.

 

This is about these two clubs battling against the organisation, which is meant to look after all of our interests, and holding them accountable for their prejudicial actions. We would contend that any club in our position would be taking similar action.

Edited July 13, 2020 by wavydavy

[Lone Striker]

11 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

If top flight teams can vote to protect themselves from relegation then the competition is done. 

 

Indeed so.   The opposite of sporting integrity happened this time........ and giving executive power to the SPFL board to make the decisions next time without a club vote will be a continuation of that.   It's utter nonsense.   Surely at the very least,  there has to be some simple boundaries & parameters put around whatever future rules exist on how to handle a curtailed season.     

 

Something like - 

 

1) Curtailment when less than 75% season is complete  = season is null & void ... and no relegation/promotion

2) Curtailment beyond 75% of season completed = remainder of season to be played as soon as  government  allows a re-start.

 

 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

28 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Yes I know what the outcome would be unfortunately there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. We are in the hands of the other clubs. The Premiership clubs are all going to vote for it to keep themselves safe. The only ones who will vote the other way are those that think they will be in contention to win their leagues which will be nowhere near the 75% majority required.

Which is exactly why, regardless of how much compensation comes our way, relegation would still range somewhere between a lottery and a disaster.

[Jambo66]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

Indeed so.   The opposite of sporting integrity happened this time........ and giving executive power to the SPFL board to make the decisions next time without a club vote will be a continuation of that.   It's utter nonsense.   Surely at the very least,  there has to be some simple boundaries & parameters put around whatever future rules exist on how to handle a curtailed season.     

 

Something like - 

 

1) Curtailment when less than 75% season is complete  = season is null & void ... and no relegation/promotion

2) Curtailment beyond 75% of season completed = remainder of season to be played as soon as  government  allows a re-start.

 

 

That was pretty easy. Why couldn't Doncaster come up with something like that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No answer required 🤨

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Won’t the board?

 

Probably but the clubs definitely would, I thought I was backing you up, now I'm confused. 🥴

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

Just a reminder of the faith AB has in the SPFL. Below is an extract taken from her recent comments.

 

This is about these two clubs battling against the organisation, which is meant to look after all of our interests, and holding them accountable for their prejudicial actions. We would contend that any club in our position would be taking similar action.

Yet we have others saying the clubs themselves would keep us down. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Probably but the clubs definitely would, I thought I was backing you up, now I'm confused. 🥴

There's no easy answer in this. 

[graygo]

Just now, davemclaren said:

There's no easy answer in this. 

 

There is, Lone Striker posted it a few minutes ago.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Indeed so.   The opposite of sporting integrity happened this time........ and giving executive power to the SPFL board to make the decisions next time without a club vote will be a continuation of that.   It's utter nonsense.   Surely at the very least,  there has to be some simple boundaries & parameters put around whatever future rules exist on how to handle a curtailed season.     

 

Something like - 

 

1) Curtailment when less than 75% season is complete  = season is null & void ... and no relegation/promotion

2) Curtailment beyond 75% of season completed = remainder of season to be played as soon as  government  allows a re-start.

 

 

So next season stops after 65% of games and we are stuck in the lower division? Careful what you wish for. 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

There is, Lone Striker posted it a few minutes ago.

So next season stops after 65% of games and we are stuck in the lower division? Careful what you wish for. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, davemclaren said:

So next season stops after 65% of games and we are stuck in the lower division? Careful what you wish for. 

 

My worry is that arbitration rules relegation - however unfair - happened within the rules at that time. The voting system won't change and the same unfairness will happen next time.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

So next season stops after 65% of games and we are stuck in the lower division? Careful what you wish for. 

 

That would be 17 games, hard to argue the case for promotion from that imo.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

That would be 17 games, hard to argue the case for promotion from that imo.

 

This is probably exactly why we're asking for such high compensation. A curtailed Championship - with us unfairly in it - would make it hard to just follow the same process. They'd have an excuse not to relegate and promote again. I think the high compensation is not really to cover for this relegation as we were facing that anyhow, but the losses due to a cut down league and potentially promotion blocked the following season for.... SPFL made up reasons.

Edited July 13, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

That would be 17 games, hard to argue the case for promotion from that imo.

Aye, they changed from gosl average due to its unfairness as well. 😎

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yet we have others saying the clubs themselves would keep us down. 

 

If you believe what Doncaster says then he thinks that the SPFL Organisation is the 42 member clubs. 

 

Looking at that comment you would think well that seem fair enough but then who is it that writes the rules and articles and sends out the letters for the clubs to vote on and then try and influence their decisions? The SPFL Board not the individual Clubs apart from one which holds all the power.

[Jambo Mac]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I don't know the answer to the first question but on the second the answer is 75% which equates to 32 clubs need to approve.

If the voting rules are the usual ,at least 9-3 in the premier,8-2 In the championship and 15-5 in L1 and 2 then you could have up to 39 yes votes and it would still fail if the championship teams voted 7-3. 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Aye, they changed from gosl average due to its unfairness as well. 😎

 

Way before my time. 😁

[NANOJAMBO]

13 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Indeed so.   The opposite of sporting integrity happened this time........ and giving executive power to the SPFL board to make the decisions next time without a club vote will be a continuation of that.   It's utter nonsense.   Surely at the very least,  there has to be some simple boundaries & parameters put around whatever future rules exist on how to handle a curtailed season.     

 

Something like - 

 

1) Curtailment when less than 75% season is complete  = season is null & void ... and no relegation/promotion

2) Curtailment beyond 75% of season completed = remainder of season to be played as soon as  government  allows a re-start.

 

 

Based on the legal advice Moynihan gave the SPFL on winding last season up, you will never get a N&V season because the legal risks would be massive for the SPFL & the clubs -  "it would be as though the season never happened"  - meaning the clubs would potentially have to repay sponsors & ST holders. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, Jambo Mac said:

If the voting rules are the usual ,at least 9-3 in the premier,8-2 In the championship and 15-5 in L1 and 2 then you could have up to 39 yes votes and it would still fail if the championship teams voted 7-3. 

 

Not the same, straight 75% needed..

[davemclaren]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Way before my time. 😁

My main point is I see little reduced or increased risk allowing the board or the clubs en masse to agree the outcome. Both carry risks of detriment if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Indeed so.   The opposite of sporting integrity happened this time........ and giving executive power to the SPFL board to make the decisions next time without a club vote will be a continuation of that.   It's utter nonsense.   Surely at the very least,  there has to be some simple boundaries & parameters put around whatever future rules exist on how to handle a curtailed season.     

 

Something like - 

 

1) Curtailment when less than 75% season is complete  = season is null & void ... and no relegation/promotion

2) Curtailment beyond 75% of season completed = remainder of season to be played as soon as  government  allows a re-start.

 

 

 

Yeah, Tbh if the rule was set at the start, that after 75% of the games are complete the league ends and titles, promotion/ play offs happen as is I wouldn't have a problem as it's clear. 

More importantly, clear from the start of the competition and not just introduced ad hoc, then I'm OK with it. 

 

The making it up as you go and selecting the parts to keep and leave out randomly are what makes me want to set things on fire.