SPFL and Covid ( Leagues 1 and 2 to restart )

[Jambo-Fox]

21 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

The real elephant in the room is what happens should we win…by whatever margin?

text removed to abbreviate.

So should we win?  Compo or re-instatement the reputational damage for the SPFL board makes all their jobs untenable.

Text removed to abbreviate 

I think you have just successfully argued that compensation is not an option!

And the only option for the arbitration panel if Hearts win the case  is reinstatement!

[Angry Haggis]

The Arbitration process (when it happens) is completely confidential right? So am I correct at some point over the coming weeks there will be an outcome but generally speaking we will not really have a view on how we (the panel) got to it? Only than some cursory commentary to support the outcome...? 

 

Looking ahead to an actual outcome that raises so many problems in itself.... 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

This was from the EEN on 2 July.

 

Gerry Moynihan QC, speaking for the SPFL’s legal team at Shepherd and Wedderburn, told the court yesterday: “Shepherd and Wedderburn have the list of panel members and have offered these to the other parties on Friday, an offer which has not yet been taken up.

“The only issue is an understanding that the list will be kept confidential because people should not be exposed to media interest in relation to these matters.”

The hearing continues from 2pm today.

 

 

 

 

 

remember that as there was discussion that all the surnames on their list would begin with O' 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

On the source of funds to pay out any compensation. We are suing the SPFL, a limited company in it's own right. That means, if we win £10m in compensation, then the SPFL must pay it to us (and Partick). The money will come from whatever funds the SPFL hold, and if they don't hold enough at the time the court order is handed down, then the balance will have to be to be paid by a certain date with interest at 8% pa. It will be up to the SPFL to sort out which club owes what but I suspect that the compensation and court costs will be viewed as an expense of the company (the SPFL) and so a legitimate reduction from income and the pot from which the dividend/prize money is paid. It will be up to any club that feels unfairly dealt with to take the matter to the Court of Sessions.

 

The only way I can think that this might not be the case would be if the prize money is held in an account designated as a client account and basically held in trust for the clubs competing in the company's competition. The SPFL would not then be able to pay the compensation from there and would have to try to get the money from the clubs, and have a lot of fun doing that.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

I did and still do wonder why no provision was made in May when Ann intimated that she was prepared to go legal with our claim...It could be claimed the directors were wrong to pay out all the TV money from last year knowing that a legal case was likely.

That's something I've been thinking about - how could they pay out money when they KNEW there was a risk of not having it due to the repayment dispute ? Why didn't ND send the lawyers to Sky and negotiate in advance of the resolution ? 

 

The problem then is,  he wouldn't have had a hold over the clubs in forcing them to vote quickly to get their money. Simples. 

 

It is utterly bizarre  when you read the SPFL legal advice they warned the clubs of potential commercial issues arising from N&V - in short, don't take the risk !

 

But then, in ending the season, knowing the risk the Board itself faced in potentially having to repay TV monies, simply IGNORED that risk and carried on paying out money that in reality they never had. 

And I know we're all bored to death with it, but I still cannot understand why there was such a song & dance about the end of season payments being so important : for the vast majority of clubs they were miniscule amounts (Forfar is often quoted as being £3K or thereabouts). 

[graygo]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

This was from the EEN on 2 July.

 

Gerry Moynihan QC, speaking for the SPFL’s legal team at Shepherd and Wedderburn, told the court yesterday: “Shepherd and Wedderburn have the list of panel members and have offered these to the other parties on Friday, an offer which has not yet been taken up.

“The only issue is an understanding that the list will be kept confidential because people should not be exposed to media interest in relation to these matters.”

The hearing continues from 2pm today.

 

 

That just confirms a list exists, I think we all knew that. Our QC has been on the list for several years.

Moynihan was just being facetious by saying we hadn't accepted the list, why should we have? It wasn't declared that it was going to arbitration at that point.

[No longer active]

10 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Correct, but that is not our worry?  What I am saying is Celtic will be screaming like pigs already if they have to pay more than everybody else?  So will say ICT where Brechin if they finish last pay next to naff all when they were a huge part of this conspiracy?

 

 

Does the TV money even cover  the max £10m?  My Gut instinct if its compensation only, forget all other sceanrios for now?  If we get compensation it will need to be paid by a certain timescale, probably in equal installments say over 12 month in 3 or for equal payments?  we should be argueing for the lot now?

It is our worry! Because if clubs go bust  when paying an equal share (unlikely) we will not see their share of the award and our compensation award will diminish.

 

Celtic won’t PAY anything - they will just win what’s left of a much smaller prize pot. (More likely and they will be annoyed no doubt)

Edited July 13, 2020 by George Cowie

[Thought Police]

20 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Was that not to the Court of Session?

Yes, which is what the poster said when asking about lodging an appeal to the CoS.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Thought Police said:

Yes, which is what the poster said when asking about lodging an appeal to the CoS.

 

Sorry, I thought he'd said appeal to CAS in Switzerland. 

[wavydavy]

Better article here.

 

Who’s on the judicial panel?

Article 99 of the SFA’s articles of association says that the two parties – Hearts/Thistle and the SPFL – will each nominate an individual from the tribunal candidate list as its arbitrator, and these two people will appoint a third arbitrator from a legal background who will act as chairman.

 

“The SFA itself will not judge the issue in the arbitration,” Lord Clark explained. “The independent arbitral tribunal will be presided over by an experienced lawyer or a member of the judiciary.”

He added that the tribunal may be required to obtain evidence from witnesses and said that “if required, the court can make appropriate orders in that regard”.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Just now, Jambo-Fox said:

I think you have just successfully argued that compensation is not an option!

And the only option for the arbitration panel if Hearts win the case  is reinstatement!

This is why I've said all along that I think, should we win, that the order to the SPFL will be to either pay compensation or reinstate the clubs to their respective leagues. Or, either to reinstate the clubs, with no alternative, or to pay compensation with the choice of reinstatement if they can't pay the compensation. In other words, if the money's not there, there is an alternative solution.

[Thought Police]

12 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Sorry, I thought he'd said appeal to CAS in Switzerland. 

Yeah, in hindsight I think that’s probably what he meant.

[I.T.K]

1 hour ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Quality mate. That’s the spirit. 100%

 

 

We've got to stick together this week...

 

They can take their dodgy vote, but the'll never stop.......  our revocation! 

[One five]

54 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

 

Great points there HTH  
Point 7 is dead on for me I would love us to win and if we did get the compensation we deserved I would like all clubs have to pay there share but we refund the cash back to ICT etc on what there share was and make it public for there sporting integrity.
I know this could maybe not happen but it would really stick it right up the farters of the rest of the f*****s. I like to dream 😂

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Correct, I wish we had a sticky with facts like this so people could stop repeating the same nonsense over and over 

 

 

Although, if we are successful I can see a civil war breaking out. 

Clubs that voted for reconstruction will not be happy losing money because others were selfish arseholes. 

 

If we win, the costs and how it's paid imo will not be that straight forward. 

 

The aftermath if we win compensation will be glorious. Ofc reinstatement or reconstruction saves all that as well and is still the best all round option. 

 

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

39 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Correct, but that is not our worry?  What I am saying is Celtic will be screaming like pigs already if they have to pay more than everybody else?  So will say ICT where Brechin if they finish last pay next to naff all when they were a huge part of this conspiracy?

 

 

Does the TV money even cover  the max £10m?  My Gut instinct if its compensation only, forget all other sceanrios for now?  If we get compensation it will need to be paid by a certain timescale, probably in equal installments say over 12 month in 3 or for equal payments?  we should be argueing for the lot now?

Neil Doncaster said all SPFL expenses are paid out of monies received before they are distributed to the clubs. On this basis the clubs that normally receive the most money like Celtic will take the biggest hit. 

 

I would be surprised if the SPFL are able to pay Hearts and Partick Thistle the full £10 million. They are due to receive £10m from Sky but are due to refund BT and sky £3m. 
 

In the event that the SPFL could not afford to pay then interest will accrue at a rate of 8% per annum so it is in the SPFL interest to pay up at the earliest opportunity.

 

Having said that we still need to win first.

[Hagar the Horrible]

23 minutes ago, George Cowie said:

It is our worry! Because if clubs go bust  when paying an equal share (unlikely) we will not see their share of the award and our compensation award will diminish.

 

Celtic won’t PAY anything - they will just win what’s left of a much smaller prize pot. (More likely and they will be annoyed no doubt)

The mechanism is not our worry, we get paid regardless, or clubs die, Ah well?   Do you think all clubs will just accept that the pot is smaller? Why should Rangers accept a smaller pot and lose say £1m when Brechin lose £5k? 

 

I think the fallout which we get to NOT be involved will be spectacular? 

 

 

[Sooperstar]

51 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Well I listened in to the 3 court sessions and read Lord Clark's judgement and never saw anything like that.

One of the QC's definitely said that a list had already been shared. Then 5 minutes later he came back and clarified that it hadn't been shared, but that in fact they had offered to share it with the offer not yet having been taken up at that time.

[Jamboelite]

This shitshow any closer to a conclusion ? Do we actually have a date yet ?

[Thomaso]

3 hours ago, luckydug said:

Yep I know. 

I'm just joining in with the mood of apprehension. 

Let's look on the bright side no matter what happens our support is more united than for a long time. 

We can hold our heads high as a club and support. 

Absolutely! 👍

[Boof]

9 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

The mechanism is not our worry, we get paid regardless, or clubs die, Ah well?   Do you think all clubs will just accept that the pot is smaller? Why should Rangers accept a smaller pot and lose say £1m when Brechin lose £5k? 

 

I think the fallout which we get to NOT be involved will be spectacular? 

 

 

 

They could always have a vote on it...

[HMFC01]

https://eastfifefc.info/latest-news/822-chairmans-update-13th-july-2020

Just thought I'd post this for anyone bored that might find it interesting.  

Quote

As things stand, we expect the players & management to commence ‘preseason’ training in the last week of August, initially back at the Oriam in Edinburgh, augmented with weekend seasons at Bayview. The most onerous part of the return to training is undoubtedly the testing of the players for Covid-19 both financially and practically. At the moment we are being advised that all players & staff will require to be tested once a week which could be a logistical nightmare for not only us, but all part time teams in Scotland. The financial implications of this is also very onerous but this is a cost we will have to bear

 

[1953]

51 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

On the source of funds to pay out any compensation. We are suing the SPFL, a limited company in it's own right. That means, if we win £10m in compensation, then the SPFL must pay it to us (and Partick). The money will come from whatever funds the SPFL hold, and if they don't hold enough at the time the court order is handed down, then the balance will have to be to be paid by a certain date with interest at 8% pa. It will be up to the SPFL to sort out which club owes what but I suspect that the compensation and court costs will be viewed as an expense of the company (the SPFL) and so a legitimate reduction from income and the pot from which the dividend/prize money is paid. It will be up to any club that feels unfairly dealt with to take the matter to the Court of Sessions.

 

The only way I can think that this might not be the case would be if the prize money is held in an account designated as a client account and basically held in trust for the clubs competing in the company's competition. The SPFL would not then be able to pay the compensation from there and would have to try to get the money from the clubs, and have a lot of fun doing that.

Is it at all conceivable that if we win and are awarded compensation that the SPFL don't have, then they go into administration and essentially walk away from it and we get nothing or very little? 

[Jambo Mac]

2 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

This shitshow any closer to a conclusion ? Do we actually have a date yet ?

The only people who know will be the legal teams of both sides.Everything else is pure guesswork with statements from various sources saying ' we hope to start next week '  or we should know by Friday. My GUESS  would be that everything the SPFL or the C3 have done up to now is stalling tactics-the SPFL wanting to get as near as possible to 1st August thinking this gives them a stronger case and the C3 claiming they need time to raise the funds for their defence

[Hagar the Horrible]

2 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

They could always have a vote on it...

Joking aside they will have to?  and we will get a vote too?

 

Doncaster has already lied in all of this, more so the TV money having to be paid back?

 

he has negotiated a worse deal than the last one

No sponsorship yet, and how hard will getting one be if Celtic are hammered in court?  Who want to associate with  a Stein?  Ep, Wine and the other one?

He has also negotiate more games than last year thus devaluing our deal from £500k per game to £400k per game, and we are about to hoover up whats left if thats the outcome.

 

They are all gampling on us winning outright or losing outright, anything in the middle kills clubs

[graygo]

29 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Although, if we are successful I can see a civil war breaking out. 

Clubs that voted for reconstruction will not be happy losing money because others were selfish arseholes. 

 

If we win, the costs and how it's paid imo will not be that straight forward. 

 

The aftermath if we win compensation will be glorious. Ofc reinstatement or reconstruction saves all that as well and is still the best all round option. 

 

 

 

Your last point is probably why the SPFL are going all the way with this, what have they got to lose other than the legal costs?

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, 1953 said:

Is it at all conceivable that if we win and are awarded compensation that the SPFL don't have, then they go into administration and essentially walk away from it and we get nothing or very little? 

Not really, we're asking less than they'll have.

 

And even if that was the case then great, we tore the ****** down. We warned them.

 

[graygo]

17 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

One of the QC's definitely said that a list had already been shared. Then 5 minutes later he came back and clarified that it hadn't been shared, but that in fact they had offered to share it with the offer not yet having been taken up at that time.

 

Yes, I think wires have been crossed. Without checking back I thought someone said there was a list but it had been rejected.

[Horatio Caine]

17 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

This shitshow any closer to a conclusion ? Do we actually have a date yet ?

Is there any chance that it's actually under way, just that it's all BCD and very hush hush?

[primrose]

1 hour ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

The real elephant in the room is what happens should we win…by whatever margin?

 

Ok we lose, the whole league breathes a huge sigh of relief, but the consequences of that is long term.  We have a guy in charge that is beyond inept.  And at some point for each club, it WILL be them.

 

So should we win?  Compo or re-instatement the reputational damage for the SPFL board makes all their jobs untenable.

 

If we win Re-instatement I bet in their hubris they have not bothered with an alternative fixture list and as the season has already started as pre-season is underway? Can we have it delayed until we get a couple of extra weeks to prepare?  The consequences and the what ifs we can come to that later?

 

But the biggest elephant in this heard in the room, is what happens with compensation?  I have already stated it’s a sliding scale  £10m is £250k per club, 10% is £25k  So how is this going to be paid?  By whom? And by when?

 

The SPFL are liable, but they have entered into this arbitration without consulting other member clubs.  But as they claim its members club, but the law has stated it is owned by shareholders?

 

So sticking with compensation nobody has asked Doncaster the mechanism for this pay-out?  People have already assumed it will just come out of the Sky TV money, and what’s left will be divvied up as reduced remunerations by league placing’s?  Is that fair?  If Celtic win, are they unfairly punished by inadvertently paying the bulk of it?  (please remove the maroon coloured specs and put yourself in their position?)

 

So what about these questions?

 

1.       Will it come off the TV and erhmm sponsorship money?

 

2.       How long will the adjudicators give to pay it out and in full?

 

3.       When does the TV money come in?

 

4.       Can we even negotiate this?  Why should we accept 10 bob per month for ever?

 

5.       If it comes from the TV money all clubs are affected disproportionately from Celtic to Brechin the latter getting off pretty much Scot free and they voted for maximum harm while keeping themselves in the league.

 

6.       Should all clubs be liable equally and the payment made from their own accounts?

 

7.       Why should ICT, Falkirk and even Rangers etc,  be liable when it was all other clubs who voted for this?  I will not be happy if I were them, Should their share be met by the clubs who voted for this?  Will they go to court to enforce this?

 

8.       Should clubs go into admin? Not our worry, but as they would escape being liable, should it just be classed as footballing debt which they will need to pay to come out of admin?

 

9.       Should a club go bust will their share be transferred to all non-dead clubs equally?

 

10.   If we are forced still into the championship and win it, can we ensure that we are paid our full league placing entitlement as agreed before the season kicks off, thus taking an even bigger slice of the remaining pot?

 

It’s all a mess and as the Board lied about the repayment to the TV companies already, what are the chances they have warned and prepped all shareholder clubs of their individual Liabilities?  I bet your bottom dollar NONE?

 

Clubs can prepare a year in advance for a reduced income? You budget accordingly. But hit with a massive bill that has not been factored is life threatening?  Cash flow is the killer!  SDM killed Airdrieonians for thirty grand.  If it comes down to some or most can’t pay, should we have a list of clubs to make an example of? After all It’s just business, Nothing personal!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The prize money last season was £25m between all clubs. 13.4% to the premiership winners so £3.35m to Celtic - then a sliding scale all the way down the leagues. 

 

The only fair way to pay compensation would be in a similar fashion. If I was Neil Doncaster I would be looking at my options here, either urgent reconstruction or doing a deal with Hearts and Thistle at say £2.5m per year for 4 years. That way the prize money is only reduced by 10% based on last seasons money. With the new sky deal it will probably be a higher figure than last season so the reduction could be budgeted for over the next 4 seasons.

 

But a solution like this takes leadership, strategy, influence and decision making, skills which lets face it he may not actually possess. 

[graygo]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Yes, I think wires have been crossed. Without checking back I thought someone said there was a list but it had been rejected.

 

This post.

 

1 hour ago, kila said:

 

Wasn't their original list thrown out by Lord Clark? Maybe I am remembering wrong, but I'm sure the SPFL said they had a list ready when they didn't, and then the list they finally compiled wasn't good enough?

 

 

[7628mm]

9 minutes ago, HMFC01 said:

https://eastfifefc.info/latest-news/822-chairmans-update-13th-july-2020

Just thought I'd post this for anyone bored that might find it interesting.  

 

 

Considering that a "benefactor" has made money available to cover all 42 clubs Covid 19 testing you have to wonder what East Fife have actually done with the money.

 

[Ribble]

43 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Although, if we are successful I can see a civil war breaking out. 

Clubs that voted for reconstruction will not be happy losing money because others were selfish arseholes. 

 

If we win, the costs and how it's paid imo will not be that straight forward. 

 

The aftermath if we win compensation will be glorious. Ofc reinstatement or reconstruction saves all that as well and is still the best all round option. 

 

 

 

Sure someone with more lyrical talent than me will come up with our season 20/21 ditty of choice and ensure it references said compensation, perhaps a take on Abba's 'Thank you for the music' with money replacing music? 

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Just now, 1953 said:

Is it at all conceivable that if we win and are awarded compensation that the SPFL don't have, then they go into administration and essentially walk away from it and we get nothing or very little? 

No, if they don't have the money at the time of the order they will have time to pay it, hence the 8% pa interest charge. The balance will then be paid from future revenues. Besides, as I said in another post, if they can't pay they will have the alternative to reinstate us, and Partick, to our rightful places. The court/arbitration panel are not going to insist on only compensation, even if they feel that is the correct remedy. They are not so far from reality that they assume that every person, or business, can pay out large amounts of cash and so they will always look for a way to satisfy both parties. Rest assured, if the SPFL goes bust, then it won't be because of us or the court/arbitration panel's ruling, it will be because of the intransigence of Doncaster and his mates.

[HMFC01]

7 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Considering that a "benefactor" has made money available to cover all 42 clubs Covid 19 testing you have to wonder what East Fife have actually done with the money.

 

 

No idea what they've done with their money.  I've read a few club statements, most of them don't have sponsors yet.  Albion rovers just lost their sponsor.  I think some/most lower league clubs have to use a lot of investment models to survive, I think clyde was one example.  

 

We shouldn't be anywhere near getting delayed until October with the size of club we have, compared to the part-timers.

[Zico's left foot]

IF the panel was to award full compensation as opposed to reinstate ment, and the SPFL decided they couldn't afford it so offered reconstruction instead, would we have to accept it? Or could we insist on the compensation?

 

Personally I'd prefer to be "back" in the top league by any means possoble but just wondering.

[brunoatemyhamster]

13 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Sure someone with more lyrical talent than me will come up with our season 20/21 ditty of choice and ensure it references said compensation, perhaps a take on Abba's 'Thank you for the music' with money replacing music? 

Thank you for the readies

The cash youre bringing

laughed so hard

Ma pants are ringing?

 

Or The Beatles

Money don't get everything its true

 

Tried to fxxk us? , we fxxked you

Now give mooooney

That's what I want. 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by brunoatemyhamster

[Ribble]

15 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Considering that a "benefactor" has made money available to cover all 42 clubs Covid 19 testing you have to wonder what East Fife have actually done with the money.

 

 

Wasn't the money for either Covid testing or community programmes linked to the club? If EF have applied to fund their community programme rather than covid testing then while well intentioned it may then threaten the future of the whole club

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just now, Zico's left foot said:

IF the panel was to award full compensation as opposed to reinstate ment, and the SPFL decided they couldn't afford it so offered reconstruction instead, would we have to accept it? Or could we insist on the compensation?

 

Personally I'd prefer to be "back" in the top league by any means possoble but just wondering.

8 million for what is potentially 6/7 months in the championship?

 

Show me the money.

[Zico's left foot]

2 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

8 million for what is potentially 6/7 months in the championship?

 

Show me the money.

They would do everything they could to make sure there was no promotion/relegation next summer if we got the full amount we're looking for.

[Shanks]

1 minute ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

8 million for what is potentially 6/7 months in the championship?

 

Show me the money.

Exactly! 
 

If the choice is either £8m, few months in championship, financially harm clubs and hopefully cause a few to go bust.

 

or

 

back in top division.

 

I would much much rather the first option.  

[Montgomery Brewster]

22 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Considering that a "benefactor" has made money available to cover all 42 clubs Covid 19 testing you have to wonder what East Fife have actually done with the money.

 

Hookers and marching powder

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just now, Zico's left foot said:

They would do everything they could to make sure there was no promotion/relegation next summer if we got the full amount we're looking for.

Probably. Then we would take them to court again.

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Your last point is probably why the SPFL are going all the way with this, what have they got to lose other than the legal costs?

 

And why utd etc got their own qc! 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Why all this talk of compensation? Compo will only be paid if we end up in the Championship, a league that won't start soon and will not have any promotion next season meaning we stay down for 2 at least. This is no way what we want or is fair. THE only fair and just outcome is A) stay in the Premiership with Utd in the Championship or  reconstruction that sees all promoted and no relegation. There can be no other outcome that suits us.

[jambo-in-furness]

3 minutes ago, Neil Dongcaster said:

8 million for what is potentially 6/7 months in the championship?

 

Show me the money.

 

Compensation is not profit,  the only benefit compensation brings is the hardship it might cause the clubs that have to come up with the readies.

[Neil Dongcaster]

Just now, jambo-in-furness said:

 

Compensation is not profit,  the only benefit compensation brings is the hardship it might cause the clubs that have to come up with the readies.

Of course compensation can be profitable.

[wavydavy]

Just now, Neil Dongcaster said:

8 million for what is potentially 6/7 months in the championship?

 

Show me the money.

 

I would very much doubt that we would be awarded £8 million. It is a bit like negotiating a pay rise you maybe want 5% but ask for 10% knowing that it is going to be knocked down.

 

We would have to have supporting evidence to show how much we estimate we will lose from the reduced number of games in the Championship and presumably lower prices at the turnstiles to the lost revenue from our commercial actiivities.

 

The overheads are the same no matter what league you play in so I am sure we will have a dossier of figures supporting our claim should the need arise.

[Jamboelite]

36 minutes ago, Jambo Mac said:

The only people who know will be the legal teams of both sides.Everything else is pure guesswork with statements from various sources saying ' we hope to start next week '  or we should know by Friday. My GUESS  would be that everything the SPFL or the C3 have done up to now is stalling tactics-the SPFL wanting to get as near as possible to 1st August thinking this gives them a stronger case and the C3 claiming they need time to raise the funds for their defence

Thanks for that.

[eyesandears]

2 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

Hookers and marching powder

Think I'll make them my new second team