Jim Panzee Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, August Landmesser said: I was being facetious - 2.30am and full of wine and feeling ever so witty and pleased with myself! I enjoy the different opinions on here too - makes for an entertaining time of it lol - I did spot the time of your post and wondered personally I do marvel at some of the absolute bampots on here - I8 is a huge favourite of mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said: Forgive me if this is a silly question but you know this stuff a lot better than I do! With regards to the Dundee vote. Can the ruling from the panel be that the SPFL broke their own procedures (by announcing the result) but complied with the rules (28 days to change vote) I'm pretty sure that a vote being flawed doesn't necessarily mean it is invalid, such as the example.you have given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrae Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: It will hinge on this I think, they must be confident that Dundee were allowed to change their vote- hence no illegality. and that they did so with no pressure applied. THink that will be the nitty gritty The Dundee vote IMO is not the key issue. It's now all about company and contract law. Hearts entered a contract with the league at the beginning of the season, that contract has not been completed as a result of the league being called early. It's now all about what is the correct remedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, David McCaig said: I fail to see how the panel can consider the revocation of Dundee's vote to be allowable without the decision being referred back to the Court of Session as a serious error in law. If Dundee's vote is, as it has to be, considered irrevocable... The resolution failed and Hearts are still a Premiership side. The decision on prejudice and unfairness really relates to what future resolutions the SPFL can table to end the 19/20 season. Is it a serious error in law or just poor practice/ due dilliegence and the resolution itself , even although unfair, biased, carried out too quickly etc just that, but still legal? Is the process of the vote not being 100% sound enough to overturn everything or worth £millions? I hope so, but common sense would say otherwise. There seems to be a lot of hope pinned on the Dundee vote unravelling the whole thing. Has this happened before in sport or even business? Imo the competition act being broken and the restriction of trade issues seems more plausible routes but the "majority voted" for it defence comes into play which takes you back to the vote and the process! Frustrating stuff Tbh. If it was about fairness, mitigation etc I think we'll win but on the law it's still too 50/50 for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No longer active Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: Everybody else: Deferred wages and coming off furlough. And a potential compensation bill from us? Lets be clear 100% compensation of £10m is £250k per club. even 10% is £25k per club, that’s Albion Rovers entire income? How many clubs are lying about their ability to play out the season, They are supposed to guarantee that. A £10 million bill is not going to screw the likes of Albion Rovers to the tune of 250k or 25k. What it will do is reduce the prize money available to all clubs, so the more successful the team the less money they will unfortunately receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David McCaig Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Smith's right boot said: Is it a serious error in law or just poor practice/ due dilliegence and the resolution itself , even although unfair, biased, carried out too quickly etc just that, but still legal? Is the process of the vote not being 100% sound enough to overturn everything or worth £millions? I hope so, but common sense would say otherwise. There seems to be a lot of hope pinned on the Dundee vote unravelling the whole thing. Has this happened before in sport or even business? Imo the competition act being broken and the restriction of trade issues seems more plausible routes but the "majority voted" for it defence comes into play which takes you back to the vote and the process! Frustrating stuff Tbh. If it was about fairness, mitigation etc I think we'll win but on the law it's still too 50/50 for my liking. I would imagine the precedent of the validity of a legally cast vote, is much more than an issue of practise or diligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, McCrae said: The Dundee vote IMO is not the key issue. It's now all about company and contract law. Hearts entered a contract with the league at the beginning of the season, that contract has not been completed as a result of the league being called early. It's now all about what is the correct remedy. I agree with this, seems far more important than a process of a vote that even if not carried out 100%, the majority never complained about and accepted. The competition rules being changed/adapted in a pic n mix fashion seems a more serious action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Jambo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 58 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Not me, mate. I’m fully aware that we could get **** all out of arbitration. That no longer matters to me now though. We fought our position, and didn’t just take a beasting quietly and gratefully. We fought, and that is all I demand of HMFC at any level, be it owners, players or supporters. Quality mate. That’s the spirit. 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 40 minutes ago, RENE said: Would an appeal to CoS not be a sporting issue. We are fighting a legal issue at the moment. CoS i assume he means court of session, rather than CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, David McCaig said: I would imagine the precedent of the validity of a legally cast vote, is much more than an issue of practise or diligence. Cheers I hope so, just seems such a small thing to pin our hopes on Tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said: I believe that the arbitration panel will be conducted properly the only downside is that they will act in good faith by taking everyone at their word. I don’t trust the SPFL in any shape or form, telephone conversations are not taped so what two individuals tell us the discussion was about will be taken at face value. I also don’t think for one minute the SPFL will volunteer all the subject matter information but will only hand over what Hearts ask for. Would it surprise anyone if further down the line (when this is over) conversations are discovered to have gone on via another method, for example Facebook messenger, but were not declared to arbitration panel because we hadn’t specifically asked for them? Like many I am not confident in the outcome but I am glad our club has taken this the whole way. Whilst I don't doubt for one second that the SPFL will endeavour to reveal as little as possible, i'm not sure that they have the balls to deliberately perjure themselves. Remember that the discovery documents have been court ordered and that we are entitled to cross examination if necessary, while Doncaster, nelms et al are dodgy, can a fabricated story between them stand up to cross examination by an experienced QC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Aussie Jambo said: Quality mate. That’s the spirit. 100% Ha! True though. The club came through for the fans, and that’s all I expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, graygo said: Lord Nimmo Smith conducted a commission, a bit different from an arbitration hearing. But it was still the only SFA inquiry that any of us have any real knowledge of and it gave just cause for us not to trust the game's governors, even when they bring in legal minds. As I said, though, that while I accept there is good reason to suspect skullduggery from the football authorities, there is no evidence that this arbitration tribunal will not deal with it fairly, especially as this tribunal has been ordered by the CoS and not solely by the SPFL. Of course, it's secret nature does lend credence to the stitch up narrative, and I'd be much happier, myself, if it was being heard in an open court. But we have what we have and the SPFL and SFA know that a serving law lord, not on their payroll this time, is watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: THink there will be lots of ackowledgement that their "rules" are too vague, not fit for purpose, but that there was no illegality. "it was badly thought out and badly worded, but we complied with the law" Yeah I think this is how it will pan out. There will be an acknowledgment of poor practice and rules needing to be changed but the bottom line will be us in the championship and minimum parachute payment (that’s already in place). We will claim the moral high ground but the fact will be that we are no better off than we ever were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qferryjam Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: That’s all fine man I agree with you. Some appear to be thinking we’re in a strong position. I just don’t see that. We are fighting the SPFL around rules that they themselves designed, the Board have admitted that the only person who fully understood them was the man that wrote them, we can only hope that the actions of those in charge have broken the law and it’s not just they are morally bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 The peg sellers and their wee cousins just cannae stay off here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Kiwidoug said: And the loser now will be later to win. 1 hour ago, Old Pivotonian said: Having said all that; And don't speak too soon For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. Go on, save me the trouble of Googling. Something prog rocky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, qferryjam said: We are fighting the SPFL around rules that they themselves designed, the Board have admitted that the only person who fully understood them was the man that wrote them, we can only hope that the actions of those in charge have broken the law and it’s not just they are morally bankrupt. Haven’t the board also admitted that the rules and articles did not adequately cover a situation like the one we are in. Essentially they have been making it up as they go along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, AndrewB said: Go on, save me the trouble of Googling. Something prog rocky? Dylan. Times they are a changing. Not prog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, JimmyCant said: Haven’t the board also admitted that the rules and articles did not adequately cover a situation like the one we are in. Essentially they have been making it up as they go along. Just as well SPFL aren't paying a fortune in wages to a CEO then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, graygo said: No quotes from them, that's why I said "I think". However my thoughts are that the fact they are proceeding with this, risking money that belongs to the clubs unlike Hearts/PT, shows that they are confident. Or stupid. For the record, I'm fairly confident we will win. Or maybe I'm stupid. In my opinion, the SPFL have little option other than to continue with the case, for to not do so would be to admit they've brought the matter to this stage on the flimsiest of grounds. They also fought to take the matter to SFA arbitration, and having been successful would raise many an eyebrow if they then caved in. There can be little doubt that we have a good and strong case, and if we lose it will be on a technicality or nuance of the law or SPFL rules, so, for that reason alone, I am not confident, just hopeful that justice will prevail. I view their efforts to hide the documentation, that should show they did nothing wrong, if they did do nothing wrong, as indicative as not being confident of their defence. Also, it is others that will have to stump up, or rather, lose money due to them, and not the SPFL itself. They have also coerced others into stumping up, so they have had a choice, continue to fight and maybe get off on a technicality, or give up and have to fork out millions (of other people's money) while making it apparent they'd been in the wrong, and knew it, from the off. I also think that if they were genuinely confident of a win, they would have acknowledged Hearts and Partick as member clubs who were losing out heavily through no fault of their own, and not have painted them as villains or allowed other member clubs to do so as well. As I say, the strength of our case gives me cause to be hopeful, but the sod's law nature of the situation means I am in no way confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewB Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Jamhammer said: Dylan. Times they are a changing. Not prog God I'd be rubbish in these Guess The Song rounds. Thanks JH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: In my opinion, the SPFL have little option other than to continue with the case, for to not do so would be to admit they've brought the matter to this stage on the flimsiest of grounds. They also fought to take the matter to SFA arbitration, and having been successful would raise many an eyebrow if they then caved in. There can be little doubt that we have a good and strong case, and if we lose it will be on a technicality or nuance of the law or SPFL rules, so, for that reason alone, I am not confident, just hopeful that justice will prevail. I view their efforts to hide the documentation, that should show they did nothing wrong, if they did do nothing wrong, as indicative as not being confident of their defence. I've stayed away from the thread for the last couple of days - what's happening now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) It would be interesting to know the SFA criteria for appointees to their list of arbitors and if any were appointed within last 4 months Edited July 13, 2020 by manaliveits105 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Just as well SPFL aren't paying a fortune in wages to a CEO then. Indeed. Plus it’s a good thing that the SPFL solicitor who drew up the articles was working pro bono. Anyway, any news on the date of this shit-show starting. Time is marching on and we’d probably want to start preparing for our season starting in less than 20 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: It would be interesting to know the SFA criteria for appointees to their list of arbitors and if any were appointed within last 4 months Wasn't their original list thrown out by Lord Clark? Maybe I am remembering wrong, but I'm sure the SPFL said they had a list ready when they didn't, and then the list they finally compiled wasn't good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, George Cowie said: A £10 million bill is not going to screw the likes of Albion Rovers to the tune of 250k or 25k. What it will do is reduce the prize money available to all clubs, so the more successful the team the less money they will unfortunately receive. Correct, I wish we had a sticky with facts like this so people could stop repeating the same nonsense over and over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No longer active Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, graygo said: Correct, I wish we had a sticky with facts like this so people could stop repeating the same nonsense over and over And if this fact was understood by the SPL teams - we’d have reconstruction already because ultimately they’re paying for it. Edited July 13, 2020 by George Cowie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyjamboDerbyshire Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, NANOJAMBO said: I've stayed away from the thread for the last couple of days - what's happening now ? Like everybody else, I've no idea what's happening now, but the SPFL went to great lengths, in court, to try to keep all documentary evidence from view. If they have documentary evidence that exhonorates their action, there can be no doubt they'd want it made available to the court/arbitration tribunal. If, on the other hand, it might prejudice their defence, then they'd make efforts to keep it hidden, which they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, graygo said: Correct, I wish we had a sticky with facts like this so people could stop repeating the same nonsense over and over Sorry bud but nobody knows that, and by what ever mechanism is granted its still going to hurt now or later and the fallout over who pays and how much will cause turbulence? I cant see the top 12 accepting the greatest hit, I will ask these questions on a new post as its a bleeding mess, There is no facts! but plenty of queations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 The real elephant in the room is what happens should we win…by whatever margin? Ok we lose, the whole league breathes a huge sigh of relief, but the consequences of that is long term. We have a guy in charge that is beyond inept. And at some point for each club, it WILL be them. So should we win? Compo or re-instatement the reputational damage for the SPFL board makes all their jobs untenable. If we win Re-instatement I bet in their hubris they have not bothered with an alternative fixture list and as the season has already started as pre-season is underway? Can we have it delayed until we get a couple of extra weeks to prepare? The consequences and the what ifs we can come to that later? But the biggest elephant in this heard in the room, is what happens with compensation? I have already stated it’s a sliding scale £10m is £250k per club, 10% is £25k So how is this going to be paid? By whom? And by when? The SPFL are liable, but they have entered into this arbitration without consulting other member clubs. But as they claim its members club, but the law has stated it is owned by shareholders? So sticking with compensation nobody has asked Doncaster the mechanism for this pay-out? People have already assumed it will just come out of the Sky TV money, and what’s left will be divvied up as reduced remunerations by league placing’s? Is that fair? If Celtic win, are they unfairly punished by inadvertently paying the bulk of it? (please remove the maroon coloured specs and put yourself in their position?) So what about these questions? 1. Will it come off the TV and erhmm sponsorship money? 2. How long will the adjudicators give to pay it out and in full? 3. When does the TV money come in? 4. Can we even negotiate this? Why should we accept 10 bob per month for ever? 5. If it comes from the TV money all clubs are affected disproportionately from Celtic to Brechin the latter getting off pretty much Scot free and they voted for maximum harm while keeping themselves in the league. 6. Should all clubs be liable equally and the payment made from their own accounts? 7. Why should ICT, Falkirk and even Rangers etc, be liable when it was all other clubs who voted for this? I will not be happy if I were them, Should their share be met by the clubs who voted for this? Will they go to court to enforce this? 8. Should clubs go into admin? Not our worry, but as they would escape being liable, should it just be classed as footballing debt which they will need to pay to come out of admin? 9. Should a club go bust will their share be transferred to all non-dead clubs equally? 10. If we are forced still into the championship and win it, can we ensure that we are paid our full league placing entitlement as agreed before the season kicks off, thus taking an even bigger slice of the remaining pot? It’s all a mess and as the Board lied about the repayment to the TV companies already, what are the chances they have warned and prepped all shareholder clubs of their individual Liabilities? I bet your bottom dollar NONE? Clubs can prepare a year in advance for a reduced income? You budget accordingly. But hit with a massive bill that has not been factored is life threatening? Cash flow is the killer! SDM killed Airdrieonians for thirty grand. If it comes down to some or most can’t pay, should we have a list of clubs to make an example of? After all It’s just business, Nothing personal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 44 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: But it was still the only SFA inquiry that any of us have any real knowledge of and it gave just cause for us not to trust the game's governors, even when they bring in legal minds. As I said, though, that while I accept there is good reason to suspect skullduggery from the football authorities, there is no evidence that this arbitration tribunal will not deal with it fairly, especially as this tribunal has been ordered by the CoS and not solely by the SPFL. Of course, it's secret nature does lend credence to the stitch up narrative, and I'd be much happier, myself, if it was being heard in an open court. But we have what we have and the SPFL and SFA know that a serving law lord, not on their payroll this time, is watching. You've nailed it. This is not an SFA enquiry, they don't get to set the terms of reference. We need to trust that it will be impartial and we get a fair hearing. I think we will, whether that means we win or not I've no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No longer active Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Hagar the Horrible said: Sorry bud but nobody knows that, and by what ever mechanism is granted its still going to hurt now or later and the fallout over who pays and how much will cause turbulence? I cant see the top 12 accepting the greatest hit, I will ask these questions on a new post as its a bleeding mess, There is no facts! but plenty of queations Let’s put it this way then.... if the £10 mil compensation is awarded (presuming that’s the outcome) we are not going to see much of our £8 mil if the award is EQUALLY split between all members because most can’t pay and presumably would go bust with us being creditors. So the only fair way to pay the £10 mil is from the SPFLs collective pot of prize money. So Celtic will be paying the most and Brechin sod all ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qferryjam Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: Haven’t the board also admitted that the rules and articles did not adequately cover a situation like the one we are in. Essentially they have been making it up as they go along. That I’m afraid goes without saying framing their arguments and reasons most of the time in hindsight, having the answers they wanted just sorting out the questions, I’m sure we’ve all worked for companies like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: In my opinion, the SPFL have little option other than to continue with the case, for to not do so would be to admit they've brought the matter to this stage on the flimsiest of grounds. They also fought to take the matter to SFA arbitration, and having been successful would raise many an eyebrow if they then caved in. There can be little doubt that we have a good and strong case, and if we lose it will be on a technicality or nuance of the law or SPFL rules, so, for that reason alone, I am not confident, just hopeful that justice will prevail. I view their efforts to hide the documentation, that should show they did nothing wrong, if they did do nothing wrong, as indicative as not being confident of their defence. Also, it is others that will have to stump up, or rather, lose money due to them, and not the SPFL itself. They have also coerced others into stumping up, so they have had a choice, continue to fight and maybe get off on a technicality, or give up and have to fork out millions (of other people's money) while making it apparent they'd been in the wrong, and knew it, from the off. I also think that if they were genuinely confident of a win, they would have acknowledged Hearts and Partick as member clubs who were losing out heavily through no fault of their own, and not have painted them as villains or allowed other member clubs to do so as well. As I say, the strength of our case gives me cause to be hopeful, but the sod's law nature of the situation means I am in no way confident. That's fair, bottom line is none of us can be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: It would be interesting to know the SFA criteria for appointees to their list of arbitors and if any were appointed within last 4 months There's about 50 names on the list, they can't all be bent or just added recently. Edited July 13, 2020 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, kila said: Wasn't their original list thrown out by Lord Clark? Maybe I am remembering wrong, but I'm sure the SPFL said they had a list ready when they didn't, and then the list they finally compiled wasn't good enough? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, George Cowie said: Let’s put it this way then.... if the £10 mil compensation is awarded (presuming that’s the outcome) we are not going to see much of our £8 mil if the award is EQUALLY split between all members because most can’t pay and presumably would go bust with us being creditors. So the only fair way to pay the £10 mil is from the SPFLs collective pot of prize money. So Celtic will be paying the most and Brechin sod all ! I imagine the compo will be paid up over the course of years. It won't be taken directly from the clubs but removed from future prize money allocations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said: Like everybody else, I've no idea what's happening now, but the SPFL went to great lengths, in court, to try to keep all documentary evidence from view. If they have documentary evidence that exhonorates their action, there can be no doubt they'd want it made available to the court/arbitration tribunal. If, on the other hand, it might prejudice their defence, then they'd make efforts to keep it hidden, which they did. OK, cheers. I thought there had been some development. I'm comfortable that Moynihan (SPFL QC) was shot down in flames in the CoS and we'll get what we requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, graygo said: No. To all I wrote? I swear the SPFL (or was it the DU QC?) implied (lied) about having a list ready when they didn't! Maybe I dreamt this... not had much else to think about the last few months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrywragg Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, graygo said: For the record, I'm fairly confident we will win. Or maybe I'm stupid. I think we'll get a result as our next step is to the CAS in Lausanne & a properly independent arbitration process - which the other side will want to avoid at all costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Thought Police said: On what grounds? Could only appeal if there’s a misapplication of the law. Can’t just appeal if we don’t like the result. Was that not to the Court of Session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, jack D and coke said: I hope I’m wrong lads. Experience tells me I won’t be though. 🤞🏼 If your right we need to call for a full and open inquiry in to the running of Scottish football and keep going on about it ,until it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: Sorry bud but nobody knows that, and by what ever mechanism is granted its still going to hurt now or later and the fallout over who pays and how much will cause turbulence? I cant see the top 12 accepting the greatest hit, I will ask these questions on a new post as its a bleeding mess, There is no facts! but plenty of queations Well they should because it's been posted on here numerous times along with the passage from the SPFL articles of association. Here it is again for the latecomers. No fee payment out of Commercial Revenues will be made until there has been deducted therefrom or adequate provision as determined by the Board has been made and sufficient sums in respect of such provision have been retained by the Company, to cover all costs and operating expenses involvedin administering, organising, running and/or managing the League, the League Cup, any other Competition operated by the Company for and during the relevant Season and the Company, including, without limitation, wages and salaries, office runningcosts, advertising costs and any other costs or expenses directly or indirectly arising from the creation, establishment, administration and operation of the League, the League Cup, any other Competition operated by the Company and the Company, and any Parachute Payment and/or Pyramid Play-Off Parachute Payment made to or provided for any Club and any loan, payment or advance made or to be made by the Company, cost, expense or liability incurred or to be incurred by the Company or provision or allowance which the Board considers it appropriate for the Company to provide for or make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said: The real elephant in the room is what happens should we win…by whatever margin? Ok we lose, the whole league breathes a huge sigh of relief, but the consequences of that is long term. We have a guy in charge that is beyond inept. And at some point for each club, it WILL be them. So should we win? Compo or re-instatement the reputational damage for the SPFL board makes all their jobs untenable. If we win Re-instatement I bet in their hubris they have not bothered with an alternative fixture list and as the season has already started as pre-season is underway? Can we have it delayed until we get a couple of extra weeks to prepare? The consequences and the what ifs we can come to that later? But the biggest elephant in this heard in the room, is what happens with compensation? I have already stated it’s a sliding scale £10m is £250k per club, 10% is £25k So how is this going to be paid? By whom? And by when? The SPFL are liable, but they have entered into this arbitration without consulting other member clubs. But as they claim its members club, but the law has stated it is owned by shareholders? So sticking with compensation nobody has asked Doncaster the mechanism for this pay-out? People have already assumed it will just come out of the Sky TV money, and what’s left will be divvied up as reduced remunerations by league placing’s? Is that fair? If Celtic win, are they unfairly punished by inadvertently paying the bulk of it? (please remove the maroon coloured specs and put yourself in their position?) So what about these questions? 1. Will it come off the TV and erhmm sponsorship money? 2. How long will the adjudicators give to pay it out and in full? 3. When does the TV money come in? 4. Can we even negotiate this? Why should we accept 10 bob per month for ever? 5. If it comes from the TV money all clubs are affected disproportionately from Celtic to Brechin the latter getting off pretty much Scot free and they voted for maximum harm while keeping themselves in the league. 6. Should all clubs be liable equally and the payment made from their own accounts? 7. Why should ICT, Falkirk and even Rangers etc, be liable when it was all other clubs who voted for this? I will not be happy if I were them, Should their share be met by the clubs who voted for this? Will they go to court to enforce this? 8. Should clubs go into admin? Not our worry, but as they would escape being liable, should it just be classed as footballing debt which they will need to pay to come out of admin? 9. Should a club go bust will their share be transferred to all non-dead clubs equally? 10. If we are forced still into the championship and win it, can we ensure that we are paid our full league placing entitlement as agreed before the season kicks off, thus taking an even bigger slice of the remaining pot? It’s all a mess and as the Board lied about the repayment to the TV companies already, what are the chances they have warned and prepped all shareholder clubs of their individual Liabilities? I bet your bottom dollar NONE? Clubs can prepare a year in advance for a reduced income? You budget accordingly. But hit with a massive bill that has not been factored is life threatening? Cash flow is the killer! SDM killed Airdrieonians for thirty grand. If it comes down to some or most can’t pay, should we have a list of clubs to make an example of? After all It’s just business, Nothing personal! If we win, The OF take a massive financial hit (they get the much largest % of the TV money) and ND gets sacked. So there's a quandary for Rangers : they wanted an enquiry, now they get an arbitration hearing which could mean them taking a massive financial hit if Hearts win. In any event I'm really not bothered what happens so long as Hearts win : the clubs don't want Hearts in the Prem at any price, literally. They said so twice, so let them pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANOJAMBO Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, kila said: To all I wrote? I swear the SPFL (or was it the DU QC?) implied (lied) about having a list ready when they didn't! Maybe I dreamt this... not had much else to think about the last few months My memory's not great but I thought Boreland mentioned a list being available but Hearts hadn't seen it yet. In any event, Lord C told everyone the "list" needed to comprise individuals with a certain skill set & experience so if the original list didn't meet the criteria I'm comfortable the later list will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 minute ago, graygo said: Well they should because it's been posted on here numerous times along with the passage from the SPFL articles of association. Here it is again for the latecomers. No fee payment out of Commercial Revenues will be made until there has been deducted therefrom or adequate provision as determined by the Board has been made and sufficient sums in respect of such provision have been retained by the Company, to cover all costs and operating expenses involvedin administering, organising, running and/or managing the League, the League Cup, any other Competition operated by the Company for and during the relevant Season and the Company, including, without limitation, wages and salaries, office runningcosts, advertising costs and any other costs or expenses directly or indirectly arising from the creation, establishment, administration and operation of the League, the League Cup, any other Competition operated by the Company and the Company, and any Parachute Payment and/or Pyramid Play-Off Parachute Payment made to or provided for any Club and any loan, payment or advance made or to be made by the Company, cost, expense or liability incurred or to be incurred by the Company or provision or allowance which the Board considers it appropriate for the Company to provide for or make. I did and still do wonder why no provision was made in May when Ann intimated that she was prepared to go legal with our claim...It could be claimed the directors were wrong to pay out all the TV money from last year knowing that a legal case was likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, kila said: To all I wrote? I swear the SPFL (or was it the DU QC?) implied (lied) about having a list ready when they didn't! Maybe I dreamt this... not had much else to think about the last few months Well I listened in to the 3 court sessions and read Lord Clark's judgement and never saw anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, graygo said: There's about 50 names on the list, they can't all be bent or just added recently. This was from the EEN on 2 July. Gerry Moynihan QC, speaking for the SPFL’s legal team at Shepherd and Wedderburn, told the court yesterday: “Shepherd and Wedderburn have the list of panel members and have offered these to the other parties on Friday, an offer which has not yet been taken up. “The only issue is an understanding that the list will be kept confidential because people should not be exposed to media interest in relation to these matters.” The hearing continues from 2pm today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, George Cowie said: Let’s put it this way then.... if the £10 mil compensation is awarded (presuming that’s the outcome) we are not going to see much of our £8 mil if the award is EQUALLY split between all members because most can’t pay and presumably would go bust with us being creditors. So the only fair way to pay the £10 mil is from the SPFLs collective pot of prize money. So Celtic will be paying the most and Brechin sod all ! Correct, but that is not our worry? What I am saying is Celtic will be screaming like pigs already if they have to pay more than everybody else? So will say ICT where Brechin if they finish last pay next to naff all when they were a huge part of this conspiracy? Does the TV money even cover the max £10m? My Gut instinct if its compensation only, forget all other sceanrios for now? If we get compensation it will need to be paid by a certain timescale, probably in equal installments say over 12 month in 3 or for equal payments? we should be argueing for the lot now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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