To join - The English Leagues

[Cruyff]

45 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Please can we not embarrass ourselves by thinking this is remotely possible

Indeed. It's a novel little thought. That's about as much as it will ever be. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

On 28/06/2020 at 01:03, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

Travelling down to absolute hovels for 90 minutes of hoofball infront of 2000. 

 

There's been some weird threads on here but this is number 1 for me.

Isn’t that what we do for most of every season anyway - new hovels would be more fun.

[tian447]

It would take the best part of a decade of absolutely everything going right for us to even begin to see the benefits of something like this happening. 

 

We would not be given a golden ticket straight into the bigger leagues, and we would have more legal battles if we tried it - the other teams would be mega pissed off if we even attempted to manoeuvre into anything higher than the very bottom rung of the ladder.  We would be looking at the 10th or 11th tier, meaning it would take up to 7 consecutive promotions to even get to League 2.  Even with major bankrolling, there are very very few examples of this actually happening, so how do we even guarantee this would happen for us? 

 

What kind of player are we going to attract at that level?   We'd have to recruit from other teams at that level, and have a constant rotation of players every season who are capable of playing at the next level up.  We don't even manage to do well at that at the minute! 

 

I'm not sure how the English teams would take to a Scottish team wanting to join, but there are teams from Wales and the Isle of Man etc. competing in the set up, so it maybe wouldn't be as bad as we think.  There will likely be resistance, but some teams might see the benefits of getting to play at a place like Tynecastle. 

 

Ultimately, I feel it would be financial suicide, as the income just wouldn't be there, and there is only so much goodwill that will come from the supporters for so long.  Attendances would probably start off fairly high, but risk dropping once people realise the standard. It would also mean the complete death of our clubs identity and accepting we are unlikely to win anything of note ever again, and it would completely fracture the clubs support into "for" and "against" groups, meaning that things like the FoH would be at severe risk of losing a lot of funding. 

 

One thing that is for sure, is we would be saying goodbye to any sort of European Competition ever again.  There would be cup runs in only the lower tier competitions, and quite frankly, I don't see drawing a Premiership team and getting skooshed 5-0 in the early stages of the FA Cup a particularly great thing to look forward to every season. 

 

If we are expelled from the league, then going down this route might be our only option, but I would rather stay in our own set up where we actually have an outside chance of some sort of domestic success, and a route into European competitions, rather than just being a team that exists to try and see out the pipe dream of making some money in the Premiership. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by tian447

[SE16 3LN]

When the SFA decide that we're oot, we'll play in any league that will have us. 

[pablo]

It's a nice idea, but unfortunately I can't see how it would ever work. I also quite enjoy the close proximity of clubs with each other in Scotland. It makes everything quite relevant. England is such a spread out big place in terms of population, totally different to here.

[cosanostra]

8 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Please can we not embarrass ourselves by thinking this is remotely possible

 

This.

We may as well discuss playing in a Martian league.

[been here before]

How many years have we been ripping the pish out of the OF for coming out with this shite?

 

Now its every ubers wet dream.

[Libertarian]

10 hours ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I totally agree. With our rich history, the city we're based in, the infrastructure we have in place, ground built for atmosphere, & backing of large & loyal support I'm certain that players, coaches etc would jump at the chance to be involved plus the positive & balanced media coverage we'd receive really would see HMFC thrive & be free of the negativity & spite that abounds in the Glasgow based swamp that is Scottish football.

 

Alas though, I can never see it happening.

I think under the current circumstances it is incumbent for for board to look at the possibility of getting out of Scotland. Up until a few months ago I was a passionate advocate for the Scottish game. However it seems absolutely clear to me now that the SPFL/SFA are now doing everything in their power to actively damage Hearts and we should look elsewhere. It seems to me that some of those who are opposed to the idea of Hearts moving elsewhere are doing so for political reasons rather than what is best for the club. Those who are opposed should be aware that cross border leagues are coming down the line very quickly.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Libertarian

[luckydug]

If we get kicked out we need to play somewhere. 

Are we the only club pissed off with the SPFL ? 

The recent vote for an independent enquiry showed thirteen clubs also discontented and wishing an enquiry. 

A breakaway league with other disaffected European teams could be a possibility if a sympathetic benefactor was interested. 🤔

[David Black]

3 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

I think under the current circumstances it is incumbent for for board to look at the possibility of getting out of Scotland. Up until a few months ago I was a passionate advocate for the Scottish game. However it seems absolutely clear to me now that the SPFL/SFA are now doing in their power to actively damage Hearts and we should look elsewhere. It seems to me that some of those who are opposed to the idea of Hearts moving elsewhere are doing so for political reasons rather than what is best for the club. Those who are opposed should be aware that cross border leagues are coming down the line very quickly.

I could not agree more. I would hope that our board are at lest discussing the issue. We all know it is about near impossible, but in the present circumstances you never know. We can but enquire. 

[David Black]

33 minutes ago, been here before said:

How many years have we been ripping the pish out of the OF for coming out with this shite?

 

Now its every ubers wet dream.

The difference between us and the OF is that their motivation was more money from the EPL tv deal. Our motivation is purely to get out of a corrupt organisation. Plus the big clubs in England have nothing to fear from us, the OF could prove a challenge. I agree there is virtually no chance and my preferred option is sounding out like minded clubs in Scotland about forming a breakaway league. We might be surprised as to who would be interested. 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, luckydug said:

If we get kicked out we need to play somewhere. 

Are we the only club pissed off with the SPFL ? 

The recent vote for an independent enquiry showed thirteen clubs also discontented and wishing an enquiry. 

A breakaway league with other disaffected European teams could be a possibility if a sympathetic benefactor was interested. 🤔

Which European teams are disaffected enough to want to play Falkirk, Stranraer and Partick Thistle?

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Which European teams are disaffected enough to want to play Falkirk, Stranraer and Partick Thistle?

What do you think we should do if we get kicked out of the Scottish football set up ? 

[Unknown user]

25 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What do you think we should do if we get kicked out of the Scottish football set up ? 

I dunno, it's not away to happen. But there isn't a European appetite for playing Caley Thistle on a regular basis and I don't see the point in pretending there is.

[Zen Jambo]

I mean, no. Can't see it ever. However, in theory, I thing a UK league would be a tad more interesting. 

 

But there's probably questions that need asked. It is Should we or Could we?

 

I am up for increasing the gene pool of Scottish football. We don't need to add to the heated rhetoric around SPFL and SFA right now, but something is a miss with the set up here. Is England any better? I don't know, that is also up for debate. Outside Prem and Championship, EFL and National League are as fuddy duddy as their counterparts up North.  

 

There is a fear that a lot of L1, L2 and NL teams wont survive, one chairman predicting 30% of the clubs are going to go to the wall over the next 12 months. What was an interesting is a number of pundits and chairmen started to discuss merging L2 and NL and creating more regional divisions to help with the burden. 

 

The thing is, a Scottish team MAY end up in the English system for a variety of reasons. It is not fantasy, but it is HIGHLY unlikely. 

 

But if there is a swathe of teams that go to the wall in the English Pyramid will have to think of a way to maintain the balance with professional teams, with compliant grounds. 

 

Could we? Yes. Logistically it is possible and who knows what the future holds.

 

Should we? I'll let JKB debate that one!  

[GinRummy]

3 hours ago, cosanostra said:

 

This.

We may as well discuss playing in a Martian league.

 

2 hours ago, been here before said:

How many years have we been ripping the pish out of the OF for coming out with this shite?

 

This is pretty much where I’m at. Fanciful nonsense. 

[skwif1]

I said NO NO NO to joining the leagues down south, firstly for national reasons, I dont want to support a team GB and probably never see a Scotsman play in it.  Then again we would never need to see hamdump again.  Our football is crap and corrupt for two reasons, I call them the ugly sisters some call them two sides of the same butt, and to others they simply are the bigot brothers.

When celic won the european cup the big wigs from a wee diddy country (who nobody had paid any attention to in the past) suddenly were downing champers and rubbing shoulders with the elite of europe, and they thought they had arrived.  I believe that a plan was put in place to promote the "big two" so they could keep their new found pals.  You only have to look at how they have grown to the detriment of all other clubs.  About 25-30 years ago every club in Scotland resigned from the leagues (except rankers and celic), and Scottish football was thrown into turmoil as the intent was clear, these two had too much power and hold over the country's football.  The plan was to set up a new league without the two "big clubs", However it was eventually pulled back from the brink and the resignations were withdrawn.  Along came the SPL and 4 games against the same teams, only benefitted by the "big two". Nobody outside the "big two" have ever won the SPL, or SPFL and never will.  No team will ever get to the level they are at because the leagues are set up to support them.  As long as they are there other clubs simply dont stand a chance.  It is obvious that england does not want them or their vile fans so are we stuck with them?? I dont think so.

Going back to the resignations, and immagine for a while the leagues without them..... No more trebles, and defo no more 9 (8&3/4 LOL) in a row, that has to be good for the game. A reconstruct to either 14 - 16 - or 18 team league, 2 up 2 down and a playoff for a third (or fourth spot).  My honest opinion is that when the fans see the trophies being distributed around the country and then being won by another team the following season, there will be a meaning to the game again and the crowds will be there, so it is win win all round. Just dump the corruption and unfairness that is within the game, Doncaster and the SPFL, Rankers and Celic.

WTF has this got to do with me saying NO NO NO to HMFC going to the english league?? Simples,  The answer is here in Scotland and within the hands of member clubs.  Sort the problems ourselves and dont just walk away to where the grass is looking greener..  Dump the "big two"?, why not,  40 teams should not be pandering to 2 clubs, it should be the other way round. I agree it needs a huge pair to even get anything like this off the ground but sadly someone has to and quick or the ugly sisters will only gain more power and cause more infighting.  

I am well aware that this is not perfect, however if we dont have ideas and a willing to move forward we will be in this shit hole forever.  Either dump them or cut them down to size. 

[AndrewB]

16 hours ago, trotter said:

The Magpie Cafe. If you ignore the sadness of the intro to the review, read what the late, great AA Gill had to say about it here:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/table-talk-aa-gill-reviews-the-magpie-cafe-whitby-70srq3xnt

Haven't clicked on the link - probably behind a paywall being The Times but when I was in Whitby a couple of years ago, it was closed due to a fire.

 

 

And, back on topic,  I don't want us to join any English league - despite me living south of the border.    I agree with this quote.

1 hour ago, skwif1 said:

The answer is here in Scotland and within the hands of member clubs.  Sort the problems ourselves and dont just walk away to where the grass is looking greener..  Dump the "big two"?, why not,  40 teams should not be pandering to 2 clubs, it should be the other way round. I agree it needs a huge pair to even get anything like this off the ground but sadly someone has to and quick or the ugly sisters will only gain more power and cause more infighting.  

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by AndrewB
typo

[Bazzas right boot]

This thread is ridiculous. 

 

May as well apply to join the inter galitic superleague. 

 

 

[Fly the Saltire]

18 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Please can we not embarrass ourselves by thinking this is remotely possible

 

[Frank]

Away to Torquay, oof! I like cider, but not that much 😄

[Beast Boy]

I’d rather stay in Scottish Football. We need to dismantle the whole stinking racket however, and then be involved in the rebuilding process.

[AndrewB]

12 hours ago, Frank said:

Away to Torquay, oof! I like cider, but not that much 😄

Not cider country - but you will go through cider country (Herefordshire and around) on the way.🍻🍻🍺

[Jambo-Fox]

My father-in-laws cousin is in the Wurzels!!

 

I am a Cider Drinker
It soothes all me troubles away
Ooh arrh, ooh arrh ay, Ooh arrh, ooh arrh ay

[Frank]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

My father-in-laws cousin is in the Wurzels!!

 

I am a Cider Drinker
It soothes all me troubles away
Ooh arrh, ooh arrh ay, Ooh arrh, ooh arrh ay

Haha, cool! I saw them at a cider-fest at Healey's cider farm in Cornwall last summer (Rattler is a great thirst quencher on a hot day).

[Frank]

Just now, Frank said:

Haha, cool! I saw them at a cider-fest at Healey's cider farm in Cornwall last summer (Rattler is a great thirst quencher on a hot day).

They did a great rum-barrel aged super strong stuff as well 👌

[tian447]

On 15/07/2020 at 22:03, Frank said:

Away to Torquay, oof! I like cider, but not that much 😄

 

Imagine the state you'd be in after drinking on the train all the way down there

 

 

[Frank]

2 hours ago, tian447 said:

 

Imagine the state you'd be in after drinking on the train all the way down there

 

 

"Hiya, Bupa? It's Frank. Whit? 300k for cider coma cover? Aww Jeezus, should have planned this better".

[TyphoonJambo]

Just had an email from an English mate who has a seat in one of those betting clubs. Seems us moving to their league is gathering pace. 

[Libertarian]

Good. The quicker we get out of the corrupt and incompetent SPFL the better. They are doing us real damage. We will grow as a club in a professionally run league

[TyphoonJambo]

Personally can't see it happening but would love it, ultimately. Got to get away from this corrupt OF shitfest

[Randy Marsh]

Playing in England is only something we should explore in we get expelled from the SPFL.   Very unlikely but I wouldn't put anything past these corrupt scumbags.  If we ever were to play in the English leagues then now would probably be the best time to do so.   I would imagine loads of lower league clubs are going to be mothballed next season.  So there could be an opportunity to sneak into a higher level on the pyramid right now.   Maybe even as far up as the Conference North. 

[TyphoonJambo]

Personally can't see it happening but would love it, ultimately. Got to get away from this corrupt OF shitfest

My worry is we're playing into Celtics hands. They are, i believe, engineering the demise of the Scottish leagues, all for their own benefit. 

Q loads of folk shouting "conspiracy theory". But, i do fear we are being played by Lawell. 

[Jambo-Fox]

The 2020-21 Premier League and English Football League seasons will start on 12 September.
 

Which clubs will still be in existence at kick off?

[Libertarian]

7 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

The 2020-21 Premier League and English Football League seasons will start on 12 September.
 

Which clubs will still be in existence at kick off?

And how many will make it through to the end of season 2020/21

[S Form]

This thread is clear evidence that some people are drinking their way through COVID 19. Us joining the English leagues is arguably the most ludicrous notion ever posted on JKB,. 

[Kiwidoug]

The prospect we can realistically hang on to is the OF leaving to join some mega league rather than us leaving.

 

Does leave me jealous though that Cardiff and Swansea are involved in the play-offs.  Wish it was us.

[scott herbertson]

1 hour ago, S Form said:

This thread is clear evidence that some people are drinking their way through COVID 19. Us joining the English leagues is arguably the most ludicrous notion ever posted on JKB,. 

 

 

Yay!

 

I claim the prize for first creating a thread on this - way back in the early days of kickback. I was roundly ridiculed by the  few people with an internet  connection who bothered to read it.

 

I think it may have been after the famous four men sent of at Ibrox game (1996) or even before then after one of the endless series of Glasgow mafia manipulations of games

[mre]

On 19/07/2020 at 18:52, TypoonJambo said:

Personally can't see it happening but would love it, ultimately. Got to get away from this corrupt OF shitfest

My worry is we're playing into Celtics hands. They are, i believe, engineering the demise of the Scottish leagues, all for their own benefit. 

Q loads of folk shouting "conspiracy theory". But, i do fear we are being played by Lawell. 

This thought had crossed my mind 🤔. Us being forced to do it to pave the way for the old firm. 

 

Its probably being engineered by Dominic Cummings as a way to strengthen the union 😎. 

 

Its just roffles but still I'd be delighted if it happened. 

[S Form]

19 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Yay!

 

I claim the prize for first creating a thread on this - way back in the early days of kickback. I was roundly ridiculed by the  few people with an internet  connection who bothered to read it.

 

I think it may have been after the famous four men sent of at Ibrox game (1996) or even before then after one of the endless series of Glasgow mafia manipulations of games

Good man. We were all young and daft once.

[Sarah O]

Imagine pissing about in lower tiers of English football. It would be grim. Hearts v Hexham FC.  

 

Mouthwatering. 

 

 

 

[Libertarian]

11 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Imagine pissing about in lower tiers of English football. It would be grim. Hearts v Hexham FC.  

 

Mouthwatering. 

 

 

 

It’s incredible that there are those who still appear to have some sort of loyalty to the Scottish league after everything that they have done and are trying to do to our club. Personally, I no longer hold any loyalty to the SPFL or SFA and feel that if our club is to prosper and grow we have to escape the corruption and incompetence of the Scottish league. My own personal preference would be what has been called the Atlantic league set up with national leagues feeding into three leagues of twenty. However since there seems little prospect of this occurring any time soon the club should investigate the option of joining the English league. It may not be possible but we should at least look into it as I am absolutely sure we would thrive in a bigger and richer league which is not set up to serve only two clubs 

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

It’s incredible that there are those who still appear to have some sort of loyalty to the Scottish league after everything that they have done and are trying to do to our club. Personally, I no longer hold any loyalty to the SPFL or SFA and feel that if our club is to prosper and grow we have to escape the corruption and incompetence of the Scottish league. My own personal preference would be what has been called the Atlantic league set up with national leagues feeding into three leagues of twenty. However since there seems little prospect of this occurring any time soon the club should investigate the option of joining the English league. It may not be possible but we should at least look into it as I am absolutely sure we would thrive in a bigger and richer league which is not set up to serve only two clubs 

 

What's incredible is the amount of people convincing themselves it might happen, and that trudging around the English non league system for years would be a laugh.

[Jambo-Fox]

43 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Imagine pissing about in lower tiers of English football. It would be grim. Hearts v Hexham FC.  

 

Mouthwatering. 

 

 

 

Are you sure that’s an option?

I thought Hexham were an amateur club

playing in an amateur league, but I’m not sure. 
Imaginative proposal though!

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 14/07/2020 at 23:48, Byyy The Light said:

Please can we not embarrass ourselves by thinking this is remotely possible

 

Why on earth would you find it embarrassing? 

[mre]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why on earth would you find it embarrassing? 

It's certainly an odd thing to be embarrassed about 🤨. 

 

I wouldn't say it'd be any worse playing Leyton Orient than Livingston, or Salford than St Mirren. Nobody is going to away games anyway so travelling wouldn't be an issue 😇. 

 

 

[johnthomas]

1 minute ago, mre said:

It's certainly an odd thing to be embarrassed about 🤨. 

 

I wouldn't say it'd be any worse playing Leyton Orient than Livingston, or Salford than St Mirren. Nobody is going to away games anyway so travelling wouldn't be an issue 😇. 

 

 

Think the embarrassment is in thinking (and discussing) this as if it is a possibility ?

[mre]

5 minutes ago, johnthomas said:

Think the embarrassment is in thinking (and discussing) this as if it is a possibility ?

Nah, I think everyone knows it won't happen (don't they?). Doesn't mean can't be discussed hypothetically. 

 

Think anyone embarrassed by it must be a bashful wee soul 🤭. 

[Jambo-Fox]

1 hour ago, johnthomas said:

Think the embarrassment is in thinking (and discussing) this as if it is a possibility ?

It would be more embarrassing if Hearts hadn’t explored the possibility (of the EFL) and ended up with nowhere to play. Don’t forget that the SPFL has an anti-Hearts agenda evidenced by the way their QC Moynihan joyously proclaimed the “oot the gemme’ remark at the Court of Session no less!

[Owlvisiting]

Given the way that the EFL has managed the Championship this season I'd give it a swerve if I was you.

 

Birmingham, Derby, Wigan and Sheffield Wednesday all awaiting verdicts on points deductions, despite fixtures being completed a week ago.

 

Wigan look like their 'new' owners who were deemed 'fit and proper' by EFL were victims of a betting syndicate attempt to manipulate results. As the new owners put them into Administration the EFL deducted them twelve points despite giving them the green light six weeks earlier.

 

Shambles, utter Shambles.