To join - The English Leagues

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

It would be more embarrassing if Hearts hadn’t explored the possibility (of the EFL) and ended up with nowhere to play. 

Which isn't going to happen, even if you keep saying it.

[Jambo-Fox]

23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 keep saying it.

 it would be gross negligence by the Hearts Board if they had not considered all options!

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Fox said:

 it would be gross negligence by the Hearts Board if they had not considered all options!

Sound, but we won't end up with nowhere to play, we're not getting thrown out and we're not leaving. 

[OldGorgie]

5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why on earth would you find it embarrassing? 

Fairly obvious. We are a Scottish based club. 

[Jambo-Fox]

13 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Fairly obvious. We are a Scottish based club. 

Scottish based clubs do play in other leagues not based in Scotland eg Europa League & Champions League! That’s not embarrassing, it’s a reason to be proud! Flying the flag for, Hearts, Edinburgh and Scotland!

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Scottish based clubs do play in other leagues not based in Scotland eg Europa League & Champions League! That’s not embarrassing, it’s a reason to be proud! Flying the flag for, Hearts, Edinburgh and Scotland!

See if you concentrate really really hard, and go on and on and on about it, batting away objections left right and centre, it'll be away to happen any second now mate 🤪

 

Fantasy Island bollocks.

[Jambo-Fox]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

See if you concentrate really really hard, and go on and on and on about it, batting away objections left right and centre, it'll be away to happen any second now mate 🤪

 

Fantasy Island bollocks.

I don’t really care. And I don’t need to concentrate to know, I’m just proud to support Hearts wherever they play and whoever they play, and I think I’m typical of most Hearts supporters! (NB home games MUST be at Tynecastle!)

[Libertarian]

It seems pretty clear to me that many of those opposed to this concept are doing so out of political views and not what is best for the club. There would be nothing to stop Hearts playing in England even if independence is achieved. Cross border leagues are coming down the line very fast and I for one would welcome the opportunity to get out of the cesspool which is Scottish football

[tcjambo]

1 hour ago, Libertarian said:

It seems pretty clear to me that many of those opposed to this concept are doing so out of political views and not what is best for the club. There would be nothing to stop Hearts playing in England even if independence is achieved. Cross border leagues are coming down the line very fast and I for one would welcome the opportunity to get out of the cesspool which is Scottish football

Of course its political. I think the worry of playing down South is that people would develop more of an affinity with the English and that is what unsettles people of a certain persuasion.

[TyphoonJambo]

13 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Of course its political. I think the worry of playing down South is that people would develop more of an affinity with the English and that is what unsettles people of a certain persuasion.

Yep, for the record, not me! The stinking cesspit we are currently in can only be improved with a wider audience, not in awe of the gruesome twosome, nor bullied by their combined might. To compete in a fair, unbiased and truly competitive league should be our goal. 

[OldGorgie]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Scottish based clubs do play in other leagues not based in Scotland eg Europa League & Champions League! That’s not embarrassing, it’s a reason to be proud! Flying the flag for, Hearts, Edinburgh and Scotland!Yes let’s join Europa league.

[OldGorgie]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Scottish based clubs do play in other leagues not based in Scotland eg Europa League & Champions League! That’s not embarrassing, it’s a reason to be proud! Flying the flag for, Hearts, Edinburgh and Scotland!

Yes let’s join the Europa league or the Champions league. By JKB standards that’s straight to Loonie bin.

[Jambo-Fox]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Yes let’s join the Europa league or the Champions league. 

👍 good positive thinking!

2021/22 season Europa League -  if we’re reinstated and have a great season! Why not Hearts rather than Sevco, Motherwell and Aberdeen - the Gorgie Boys are going to Europe (again!)!!

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Fairly obvious. We are a Scottish based club. 

 

So you're embarrassed because people are talking about it? How very odd. Still each to their own. 

[willie wallace]

5 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Scottish based clubs do play in other leagues not based in Scotland eg Europa League & Champions League! That’s not embarrassing, it’s a reason to be proud! Flying the flag for, Hearts, Edinburgh and Scotland!

They play in these leagues as a reward for doing well in their home country league.ie Scotland

As far as I know you do not play in Europe as a reward for playing well in the Northern Premier League..

This thread really annoys me.

[Jambo-Fox]

7 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

They play in these leagues as a reward for doing well in their home country league.ie Scotland

As far as I know you do not play in Europe as a reward for playing well in the Northern Premier League..

This thread really annoys me.

Might be best that you stop engaging if it really annoys you.

 

There are many that think it’s a visionary thread and a reasonable discussion about the strategic direction of Hearts and to a lesser extent the Scottish Football cesspit!

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[OldGorgie]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Might be best that you stop engaging if it really annoys you.

 

There are many that think it’s a visionary thread and a reasonable discussion about the strategic direction of Hearts and to a lesser extent the Scottish Football cesspit!

If you seriously think Hearts will play in the Europa or Champions league next season then you need help.

[OldGorgie]

Come on Mods. Shut this thread down now.

[Jambo-Fox]

32 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

If you seriously think Hearts will play in the Europa or Champions league next season then you need help.

Hearts will NOT play in the Europa League next season (the places have already been allocated), but why should they not play (assuming reinstatement for 20/21) in season 21/22??
Hearts are big enough, they just need to be good enough!

I’m getting fed up with so called Hearts fans that think Hearts are not good enough to play in Europe!

I just want Hearts to do well and bring joy to their thousands of real supporters!

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[Jambo-Fox]

28 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Come on Mods. Shut this thread down now.

Silly OldGorgie  have you heard of sharing opinions?

 

PS as previously suggested if it really annoys you stop engaging!

Edited July 25, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[Bazzas right boot]

16 hours ago, S Form said:

This thread is clear evidence that some people are drinking their way through COVID 19. Us joining the English leagues is arguably the most ludicrous notion ever posted on JKB,. 

 

 

I know, we should join the French or Spanish league, better away days. 

 

 

 

 

[Byyy The Light]

13 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why on earth would you find it embarrassing? 

It’s flat earther and 5G conspiracy theory territory.

[Libertarian]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Might be best that you stop engaging if it really annoys you.

 

There are many that think it’s a visionary thread and a reasonable discussion about the strategic direction of Hearts and to a lesser extent the Scottish Football cesspit!

Couldn’t agree more. My own view is that we have fantastic potential as a club but are now being damaged by belonging to the incompetent SPFL and we should at least look for a way out. We owe Scottish football nothing after the way we have been treated 

[Thought Police]

10 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Come on Mods. Shut this thread down now.

Why? What rules are being broken?

 

A thread doesn’t need shut down just because you don’t like the topic.

[tcjambo]

16 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Come on Mods. Shut this thread down now.

You can press ignore to anything you don't like so grow up

[OldGorgie]

Only the truly insane would believe we have a chance of joining the English setup. 

[Jambo-Fox]

I love Hearts!!

 

I hate the SPFL & SFA and all they stand for!

 

How can these extremes be reconciled?! 

[Bazzas right boot]

This thread is still embarrassing. 

 

[Nookie Bear]

The same English set up that cancelled Leagues 1&2 and applied average points ?

[jr ewing]

We're not wanted here.

[Libertarian]

8 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Rubbish! I am not a supporter of independence but still find this thread idiotic. I’ve followed Hearts for 60+ years but would go and watch Bonnyrigg Rose if this fantasy was realised.

If you read what I actually wrote ‘many’. I never mentioned ‘all’.

[Silverwolf]

In Scotland, the fans are taken for granted as the whole system is myopic and centred around maintaining the persisting duopoly.

 

Sadly, for me, as for an increasing number of people in Scotland, I am giving up on the mickey mouse, Scottish game and watching the EPL. I do not find it fun watching the slow, inevitable decline of the game north of the border. If Hearts decide to jump ship and join the English pyramid system then I will be back. They would do well there.

 

I realise that some people enjoy self harm. Either that or they truly believe that that the self serving Scottish system will change. For me however, if we keep doing the same things we will get the same result. Hearts and every other team outside the Old Firm are only there to make up the numbers in a pretend league. A league that is dying due to its uncompetitive nature. 9 in a row is an embarrassment to anyone looking in at the competitive nature of football in Scotland.

 

Hearts have huge, unfulfilled potential. That potential could be realised in a different environment. 

 

Would it be feasible to set up a separate Hearts FC (with technically no ownership conflict of interest), to play in the English Pyramid system? Once it was up into league div 2 we could give notice to the SPFL and switch the main club over.

[Schevchenko]

I would happily start at the bottom of the pyramid, we would be up in no time, also by that time we would be financially bigger than the OF.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Schevchenko

[Boab Mugabe]

Hopefully the Celtic FA do expel us from their organisation permanently and we can join a better setup.

[Silverwolf]

I am being serious here.

 

I realise that some posters have indicated that they would walk away from Hearts if they bailed out and joined the EFL but when you consider the quality of the sides in the Championship, I believe we would be a very attractive, and entertaining spectacle. Furthermore, we have considerably more potential than Brighton, Bournemouth, Wigan etc. It is not unrealistic that, in time, we could operate at the lower end of the Premiership, even if for only brief periods.

 

If that were the case, we would have to enlarge Tynecastle.  

[jambonian]

It's all fantasy. The old firm have been laughed at for saying they would join the EFL, why would anyone think the English leagues would want us? It would be denied instantly, and even if it wasn't, what makes anyone think that clubs further down the leagues there would take a vote to bring another club in from another league? Clubs with bigger supports? The likes of Sheff Wed, Birmingham, Fulham, Notts Forrest, Sunderland and many others along with probably all clubs would be a no vote. You'd actually have more chance of a breakaway European league with other dissatisfied clubs in Europe than getting anywhere near the English leagues.

[Boab Mugabe]

1 minute ago, jambonian said:

It's all fantasy. The old firm have been laughed at for saying they would join the EFL, why would anyone think the English leagues would want us? It would be denied instantly, and even if it wasn't, what makes anyone think that clubs further down the leagues there would take a vote to bring another club in from another league? Clubs with bigger supports? The likes of Sheff Wed, Birmingham, Fulham, Notts Forrest, Sunderland and many others along with probably all clubs would be a no vote. You'd actually have more chance of a breakaway European league with other dissatisfied clubs in Europe than getting anywhere near the English leagues.

I’m more than happy to join the North East Counties in whatever division and work our way up. Better away days and a better standard of football than these creeps in this setup.

[Silverwolf]

1 minute ago, Boab Mugabe said:

I’m more than happy to join the North East Counties in whatever division and work our way up. Better away days and a better standard of football than these creeps in this setup.

This is why I was asking about having a second (independent) Hearts FC and playing in the regional leagues. We could then mount a "takeover" when the team got into the national leagues. 

 

Besides, these are interesting and unheralded times we live in. It may be there arises an opportunity for a club that has the financial wherewithal to play a season or two BCD.

[jambonian]

2 minutes ago, Boab Mugabe said:

I’m more than happy to join the North East Counties in whatever division and work our way up. Better away days and a better standard of football than these creeps in this setup.

 

The set up in Scotland should be looked at and changed considerably. But who would do it? We all know that the set up here is aimed at one or two clubs, (one of them more than the other at the moment) and it would be great if we could get the hell out of it unless there's change, however, as much as I get where people are coming from, it's not us that would say no to it but more that no-one down there would vote for it. Can you see the likes of the clubs I mentioned, who all want a piece of cash from the Premier and Championship saying yes? Like I say, if some group could get together and try to form a breakaway league in Europe, it would be more realistic. However, neither will happen. As for North East Counties...would it be any better than joining the Highland, Lowland or Junior Leagues in Scotland? Even that is more realistic than joining the EPL, unfortunately.

[Silverwolf]

9 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

The set up in Scotland should be looked at and changed considerably. But who would do it? We all know that the set up here is aimed at one or two clubs, (one of them more than the other at the moment) and it would be great if we could get the hell out of it unless there's change, however, as much as I get where people are coming from, it's not us that would say no to it but more that no-one down there would vote for it. Can you see the likes of the clubs I mentioned, who all want a piece of cash from the Premier and Championship saying yes? Like I say, if some group could get together and try to form a breakaway league in Europe, it would be more realistic. However, neither will happen. As for North East Counties...would it be any better than joining the Highland, Lowland or Junior Leagues in Scotland? Even that is more realistic than joining the EPL, unfortunately.

I agree with you that the set up in Scotland is doomed to fail ultimately and needs to change. I have felt however, for at least 30 years that it never will (I even gave a presentation on it in 1989 although I am not happy to be proved right). There are just too many interested parties who depend upon the status quo (even if they realise the short term nature of this attitude). That includes the MSM, the old firm and ultimately the majority of the fans (old firm).

 

That being the case, we will always get what we have always got. I for one believe that Hearts could and should do better than the occasional cup run and a pitiful third in the league. To achieve that ambition however we need to stop swimming uphill. Joining the English pyramid system would have that effect.

[Jambo-Fox]

There’s not much left in Scotland for Hearts to look forward to! Season 20/21 only 13 or 14 home games. Can’t go to any away games (due to self imposed boycotts), can’t go to cup games due to either fan boycotts or club withdrawing participation and certainly cup semis and finals must be avoided!

 

Beyond that continuing poor governance and leadership by both the SPFL & SFA will see a further decline in standards every year!
 

At least in the EFL there would 23 home games and away games for those that were inclined to attend.

 

There would be challenges and obstacles to overcome but that’s not a reason not to explore the opportunity!

Edited July 27, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[Libertarian]

1 hour ago, Schevchenko said:

I would happily start at the bottom of the pyramid, we would be up in no time, also by that time we would be financially bigger than the OF.

Absolutely agree with the above. Hearts have incredible potential to grow but are being held back by the incompetence and corruption of both the SPFL and SFA.

[PaintTheTownMaroon]

It took Salford City 5 years to reach the Football League and that’s with the backing of a billionaire owner. The idea we would just race up the leagues with ease is complete fantasy unless we had significant financial backing. 

[Busby8]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

It's all fantasy. The old firm have been laughed at for saying they would join the EFL, why would anyone think the English leagues would want us? It would be denied instantly, and even if it wasn't, what makes anyone think that clubs further down the leagues there would take a vote to bring another club in from another league? Clubs with bigger supports? The likes of Sheff Wed, Birmingham, Fulham, Notts Forrest, Sunderland and many others along with probably all clubs would be a no vote. You'd actually have more chance of a breakaway European league with other dissatisfied clubs in Europe than getting anywhere near the English leagues.

 

The uglies wanted in at the top division though, or at least within striking distance of it.

As much of a fantasy the whole idea of joining the English Leagues seems, we would be starting a lot further down, but with realistic expectations, (meh), of swiftly moving up the leagues.

 

It's not happening though.

[OTT]

If there was ever a chance its 100% worth exploring. Get us the **** out of this backwater. 

 

I'd be interested to test it, buy a non-league team and transfer everything. See if the EFA block it. If not, then we're playing in England now  

[Silverwolf]

10 minutes ago, OTT said:

If there was ever a chance its 100% worth exploring. Get us the **** out of this backwater. 

 

I'd be interested to test it, buy a non-league team and transfer everything. See if the EFA block it. If not, then we're playing in England now  

I think we need to explore this further. I do not believe it is illegal to own two clubs in different league pyramids. Vlad did. Surely a club that currently plays their football in the lower leagues in England could legitimately “switch” their home ground to Tynecastle and change their name to HMFC. Wimbledon did it with MK Dons.

[GinRummy]

Please stop this embarrassing nonsense. 

[henry]

Let’s make a move out of this corrupt set up. I’d leave for England in a minute. 

[JTJ]

Teams join the Pyeamid in England at Northern League Division 2 level. Currently 20 teams there with "West Allotment Celtic" in first place when the music stopped. WAC attendances are usually under 100. It is a part-time league about 6 levels short of the Conference on dreadful pitches (some shared with rugby teams).

It is a much lower level than Edinburgh City play. We would lose all our players and lose players preferring to play for City because they'd be at a higher level. Unless you'd like to "try a Rangers" we'd employ part-time players to get up a few levels at first. However, would fans stick with this? Tynecastle might end up a white elephant and we could end up in a ground share with Spartans.......

No Euro football ever and little coverage in the media in Scotland. The club would find it all a financial disaster.

My English team is Darlington (to annoy my Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea etc supporting mates) and they went bankrupt, rejoined and have worked their way up to the Conference North level. They only ever had gates around 3000 at best anyway. I watched some games at the NL Div 2 level so trust me it is "not good" and our local juniors would take away a lot of our support.

That would be if we were stupid enough to try to join in the first place - it will just NOT happen!

[Silverwolf]

21 minutes ago, JTJ said:

Teams join the Pyeamid in England at Northern League Division 2 level. Currently 20 teams there with "West Allotment Celtic" in first place when the music stopped. WAC attendances are usually under 100. It is a part-time league about 6 levels short of the Conference on dreadful pitches (some shared with rugby teams).

It is a much lower level than Edinburgh City play. We would lose all our players and lose players preferring to play for City because they'd be at a higher level. Unless you'd like to "try a Rangers" we'd employ part-time players to get up a few levels at first. However, would fans stick with this? Tynecastle might end up a white elephant and we could end up in a ground share with Spartans.......

No Euro football ever and little coverage in the media in Scotland. The club would find it all a financial disaster.

My English team is Darlington (to annoy my Man U/Liverpool/Chelsea etc supporting mates) and they went bankrupt, rejoined and have worked their way up to the Conference North level. They only ever had gates around 3000 at best anyway. I watched some games at the NL Div 2 level so trust me it is "not good" and our local juniors would take away a lot of our support.

That would be if we were stupid enough to try to join in the first place - it will just NOT happen!

Your points are well made regarding the challenges of joining at the basement levels.

 

For my curiosity, what would stop Hearts buying a club and then switching ground and name change similar to Wimbledon FC and their move to Milton Keynes to be become MK Dons. Clearly cost would be an issue albeit I suspect there will be few clubs on offer before this pandemic is concluded.
 

With Welsh clubs already playing in the EFL, I cannot imaging being in Scotland would be an issue. Furthermore, the commission that deliberated over the Wimbledon transfer has surely set the precedent?