To join - The English Leagues

[Horatio Caine]

16 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

Your points are well made regarding the challenges of joining at the basement levels.

 

For my curiosity, what would stop Hearts buying a club and then switching ground and name change similar to Wimbledon FC and their move to Milton Keynes to be become MK Dons. Clearly cost would be an issue albeit I suspect there will be few clubs on offer before this pandemic is concluded.
 

With Welsh clubs already playing in the EFL, I cannot imaging being in Scotland would be an issue. Furthermore, the commission that deliberated over the Wimbledon transfer has surely set the precedent?

Do you support Bonnyrigg Rose?

[Silverwolf]

8 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

Do you support Bonnyrigg Rose?

Not sure I get the reference. I am genuinely interested. What would stop any club doing this? In effect buying a league position.

[Horatio Caine]

3 minutes ago, Silverwolf said:

Not sure I get the reference. I am genuinely interested. What would stop any club doing this? In effect buying a league position.

Nah, it was just the fact that you were a firsttimeposter that maybe threw me.  Do you have a husband in the forces?

[Silverwolf]

Ah right. I did see that one. The lady who seemed to suggest that not only was her husband in the forces but had actually fought with McCrea’s Battalion. Not even I was fooled there.
 

I have just never posted before today but have watched  kickback, on and off for a few years. I only posted today because it felt like a bereavement. I have lost any faith I may have had in Scottish football. Just dreaming of alternatives.

[Redhelen]

There's a spot going , given that Wigan are in admin  and are struggling to get out of it.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Redhelen

[Silverwolf]

10 minutes ago, Redhelen said:

There's a spot going , given that Wigan are in admin  and are struggling to get out of it.

I have got to admire your ambition. May be a shade pricey however given that they must be carrying a shed load of debt on their books.

 

i was thinking more modestly. Maybe a Div 2 club.

[tcjambo]

Can we have a ballot on this topic since some precious souls are desperate to close it down?

 

Yes - Explore every possibility of leaving for the English Leagues ASAP

No  - Doesn't matter how often we are shafted we're Scottish and staying put

Don't care I'm done

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by tcjambo

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Can we have a ballot on this topic since some precious souls are desperate to close it down?

 

Yes - Explore every possibility of leaving for the English Leagues ASAP

No  - Doesn't matter how often we are shafted we're Scottish and staying put

Don't care I'm done

 

 

 

Honestly, its pathetic. Its a fans forum for discussion, it will probably never, ever happen. But its a good outlet for frustration. And considering we have **** all to do till October its something..

 

The fact people are so fed up and themselves know its unchangeable so would rather leave than continue to soldier on with this nonsense speaks volumes. 

[Silverwolf]

50 minutes ago, Redhelen said:

There's a spot going , given that Wigan are in admin  and are struggling to get out of it.

Crawley Town would be more affordable. Average gate of 2-3k, poor stadium so little asset value, and they have demonstrated some signs of financial stress prior to Covid 19. When the furlough ends, they will struggle to play BCD.

[jr ewing]

It would be a great result. SPFL expelled us. It's an opportunity we should explore. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Can we not apply to France or Spain?

Better away days. 

The NI league would welcome us no doubt. 

[JackLadd]

Swedish league maybe, perks!

 

 

[TheOak88]

5 hours ago, Silverwolf said:

Your points are well made regarding the challenges of joining at the basement levels.

 

For my curiosity, what would stop Hearts buying a club and then switching ground and name change similar to Wimbledon FC and their move to Milton Keynes to be become MK Dons. Clearly cost would be an issue albeit I suspect there will be few clubs on offer before this pandemic is concluded.
 

With Welsh clubs already playing in the EFL, I cannot imaging being in Scotland would be an issue. Furthermore, the commission that deliberated over the Wimbledon transfer has surely set the precedent?

 

The fact that we play in Scotland is gonna be the issue with that. 

[trotter]

6 hours ago, Silverwolf said:

Your points are well made regarding the challenges of joining at the basement levels.

 

For my curiosity, what would stop Hearts buying a club and then switching ground and name change similar to Wimbledon FC and their move to Milton Keynes to be become MK Dons. Clearly cost would be an issue albeit I suspect there will be few clubs on offer before this pandemic is concluded.
 

With Welsh clubs already playing in the EFL, I cannot imaging being in Scotland would be an issue. Furthermore, the commission that deliberated over the Wimbledon transfer has surely set the precedent?

How many times does it need to be posted before it sinks in with some people. Welsh clubs were allowed into the English setup because at the time of their inception THERE WAS NO WELSH LEAGUE. 

 

Although there is a Welsh league now, the Welsh clubs are somewhat grandfathered into the EFL setup. A new Welsh club starting up today (like their existing counterparts outside of Cardiff, Swansea and the other one I always forget) would have no eligibility to play in England. It certainly doesn't create the 'precedence' that some people seem to think it does. 

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

How many times does it need to be posted before it sinks in with some people. Welsh clubs were allowed into the English setup because at the time of their inception THERE WAS NO WELSH LEAGUE. 

 

Although there is a Welsh league now, the Welsh clubs are somewhat grandfathered into the EFL setup. A new Welsh club starting up today (like their existing counterparts outside of Cardiff, Swansea and the other one I always forget) would have no eligibility to play in England. It certainly doesn't create the 'precedence' that some people seem to think it does. 

And Berwick Rangers play in Scotland for similar reasons. 

 

It's like banging your head of a brick wall on here sometimes. 

[pablo]

Not that I think it's possible, but why are Derry City allowed to play in the Republic of Ireland? Is their ground on other side of the border?

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, pablo said:

Not that I think it's possible, but why are Derry City allowed to play in the Republic of Ireland? Is their ground on other side of the border?

They played in the N. Irish league from 1928 until the 70's. The security forces closed down their home ground which meant they had to play home games in Coleraine. After the security forces lifted the ban, the N. I. F. A. said that they must continue to play their home matches in Coleraine, so they withdrew from the league. 

 

They then applied to join the Rep Irish league in the 1980's and were given special dispensation from FIFA and UEFA to do so for what I'd assume were political reasons. 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

They played in the N. Irish league from 1928 until the 70's. The security forces closed down their home ground which meant they had to play home games in Coleraine. After the security forces lifted the ban, the N. I. F. A. said that they must continue to play their home matches in Coleraine, so they withdrew from the league. 

 

They then applied to join the Rep Irish league in the 1980's and were given special dispensation from FIFA and UEFA to do so for what I'd assume were political reasons. 

 

Cheers. Good knowledge.

 

The special dispensation granted  to them to counter the hostility shown by their own association sounds closer to our situation than the historical Welsh and Berwick Rangers reasons. 

[Silverwolf]

Right, so it is FIFA and UEFA who hold the whip hand here. Shame.  
 

As a consequence we are resigned to playIng in the Scottish leagues. A tinpot system that is institutionally a duopoly. Where the other teams are only there in order to make up the numbers and patronised by the Glasgow centric media for an occasional cup run. Hearts will never fulfil their potential in this environment.
 

Sportscene?.....MOTD?......Sportscene?......MOTD?
 

it has to be Gary Lineker every time.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

We will still rag doll the vermin sister fisters every time our paths cross likesy

[Redhelen]

11 hours ago, Silverwolf said:

I have got to admire your ambition. May be a shade pricey however given that they must be carrying a shed load of debt on their books.

 

i was thinking more modestly. Maybe a Div 2 club.

In all seriousness,  covid19 is going to break some of the lower division clubs  with no fans in the stadiums for the foreseeable.  Now would be the best time to apply to join the English leagues.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Redhelen

[Silverwolf]

I was being serious too. I even went as far as to pull the numbers from companies house for Crawley Town (mid div 2 but showing sign of fiscal stress pre-Covid). Fag packet stuff and with a considerable amount of assumptions to do with legal undertakings, I reasoned we could get into div 2 this season for less than £3M (although we may be fined for breach of SFA/SPFL notice period).

 

Sadly, it would appear it is not a goer. There are better informed people on this thread who have indicated that it would be blocked by UEFA or FIFA. Not surprising I suppose as they are keen to maintain the status quo in terms of national leagues. Otherwise I suppose we could join any league simply by buying a failing club. 
 

i fancy Italy, if only for the weather.

[Jambo-Fox]

5 hours ago, Cruyff said:

And Berwick Rangers play in Scotland for similar reasons. 

 

It's like banging your head of a brick wall on here sometimes. 

And Highland League Clubs must always play in the Highland with no chance of joining the Scottish League!!! Oooops they changed that archaic rule some years ago! Nothing stays the same for ever, things evolve and change! 

[Last Laff]

Didn’t the EFL do similar? 

[hmfc1440]

Not sure if previously highlighted but EPL would have approved Wimbledon to Dublin but left final decision to FAI;

https://www.irishpost.com/sport/dublin-dons-english-football-almost-came-ireland-103909

The idea of moving is not as outrageous as many on here would suggest but the club itself would need to be prepared to go some to get there with all behind it. An All-Island league in Ireland is being mooted right now with most of the major clubs on both sides of the border up for considering the move - only 2 Prem clubs in the North held back. The FAI are in disarray after Delaney was fired and I believe they want their LOI franchised out, the IFA on the other hand are eager to hold their control over the NIFL - but cross-border leagues are up for discussion. FWIW I am not wasting time in a rigged competition in Scotland - what's the point in that? 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, hmfc1440 said:

Not sure if previously highlighted but EPL would have approved Wimbledon to Dublin but left final decision to FAI;

https://www.irishpost.com/sport/dublin-dons-english-football-almost-came-ireland-103909

The idea of moving is not as outrageous as many on here would suggest but the club itself would need to be prepared to go some to get there with all behind it. An All-Island league in Ireland is being mooted right now with most of the major clubs on both sides of the border up for considering the move - only 2 Prem clubs in the North held back. The FAI are in disarray after Delaney was fired and I believe they want their LOI franchised out, the IFA on the other hand are eager to hold their control over the NIFL - but cross-border leagues are up for discussion. FWIW I am not wasting time in a rigged competition in Scotland - what's the point in that? 

 

Sound, except it's not going to happen. 

The FA don't want or need us, the English leagues don't want or need us, but aside from that you'd need an overwhelming mandate from our fans to prevent civil war, and that's simply not going to happen. 

 

If all this is just venting then fair enough, who can blame anyone for that? But if it's grown adults seriously thinking it could be a goer, just for clarity, it isn't.

[Hectormasson]

15 hours ago, Silverwolf said:

Your points are well made regarding the challenges of joining at the basement levels.

 

For my curiosity, what would stop Hearts buying a club and then switching ground and name change similar to Wimbledon FC and their move to Milton Keynes to be become MK Dons. Clearly cost would be an issue albeit I suspect there will be few clubs on offer before this pandemic is concluded.
 

With Welsh clubs already playing in the EFL, I cannot imaging being in Scotland would be an issue. Furthermore, the commission that deliberated over the Wimbledon transfer has surely set the precedent?

Defo worth a look ,  this is an absolute f....k up of a supposed league,  im totally sick of hearts being treated like dog shit from spfl &sfa,      and its not going to get any better !   Maybe its time we at least looked and asked around ?  We're hated up here !     And its as bent as an Arabs dagger up here the way things are run!!!!!       Aye were a scottish club ,,,but we will go nowhere under the watchful eyes of the spfl !      

And tell them to stick their cup semi up there arse too !   

[Jambo-Fox]

Another factor to consider in the ‘play in the EFL’ discussion is the players!

 

Professional players with ambition want to better themselves, for many this means a desire to play in the EFL rather than the SPFL. Examples are Callum Patterson and more recently Sam Nicholson. Sadly for others the need to relocate their families prevents them realising their ambitions.

 

Hearts in the EFL would enable Scottish players to achieve their goals. And for Hearts it would mean they could attract and sign top quality talented Scottish players!

[Cruyff]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

And Highland League Clubs must always play in the Highland with no chance of joining the Scottish League!!! Oooops they changed that archaic rule some years ago! Nothing stays the same for ever, things evolve and change! 

[underwaterwoodwelder]

11 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Swedish league maybe, perks!

 

 

 

[underwaterwoodwelder]

That guy looks like has getting a double reach around.

[Libertarian]

On 28/07/2020 at 08:58, Redhelen said:

In all seriousness,  covid19 is going to break some of the lower division clubs  with no fans in the stadiums for the foreseeable.  Now would be the best time to apply to join the English leagues.

Couldn’t agree more. Covid 19 is currently being used by the SPFL to damage Hearts and we are not finished with it yet. There is every chance that a second wave of Covid 19 in the winter months could lead to the SPFL suspending promotion and relegation this coming season. We should be seriously investigating a way out of the corrupt Scottish league. Plenty on here have said it will never happen, however we should at least try 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Its not happening any time soon,  but would love to see someone give it a go and be accepted. 

 

Berwick should not be in the Scottish League or cups. 

 

Most definitely English 

[RS86]

I know Scottish football is shit, but this is mental

[Jambo-Fox]

I just hope Hearts are one of the survivors!

Edited July 30, 2020 by Jambo-Fox

[jack D and coke]

On 07/07/2020 at 10:26, sassenach said:

My opinions, as an Englishman and a Hearts fan.

 

Firstly, Hearts would be an asset to the English system. A famous old club in a wonderful city with a cracking ground, it would be top of every fan's list of away grounds to visit. I wouldn't be against it personally, although I don't know which end of the ground I'd use whenever Hearts played Boro

 

Positives out of the way, I'll carry on.  It's been rumoured for years that Celtic and Rangers have been trying to enter the English system. Whether we like it or not, those two are bigger clubs than Hearts. I can't think of a scenario where Hearts have a case for playing in England but not them, so we'd either be playing in England with them or after them.

 

We would now have a scenario where Scotland has lost its three biggest clubs into what has effectively become a British league, and teams such as Aberdeen and Hibs would be sure to follow. The question now is, which clubs in either England or Scotland would vote for such a change?  The pyramid system in England is more mature than Scotland's, and there have been clubs turning full-time professional as low as the 6th tier - I'm not only talking former Football League clubs, I'm talking Harrogate Town when they were in National League North. So a lot of ambitious professional clubs would not want their progress blocked by established incomers from Scotland. Neither would clubs already in the Football League want to risk being displaced. So the votes will never be there.

 

To finish, there would be problems with supporters.  Although religious sectarianism isn't really such of an issue in England, many Englishmen will react badly to perceived links with the IRA - remember the chanting by England fans at the Celtic Park International game a few years ago? Celtic fans could all turn over a new leaf and be as good as gold, but it wouldn't matter, there'd always be a mob of English fans waiting for the "IRA scum". These types would also cause trouble at games against Rangers, not necessarily through fighting but joining up with them and causing drunkenness and disorder in town centres. All of the above has happened at friendlies, it would happen more often and on a bigger scale at League matches.

 

So unfortunately, much as part of me would like to see it, I can't see Hearts playing in the English league system any time soon.

Hearing about Celtic scum getting done in weekly for taking the terrorism roadshow around the country, seeing them getting bad press and their fans exposed for the scum they are would warm my heart. I’d cheer ever goal against them, cheer of every tim punched, and delight in every bad headline. Their ugliness revealed to a nation that would have no fear of them would be beautiful. 

[Phage]

I'm up for the English lower league grind

[Libertarian]

10 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I just hope Hearts are one of the survivors!

We will be.

[Libertarian]

On 27/07/2020 at 23:14, jr ewing said:

It would be a great result. SPFL expelled us. It's an opportunity we should explore. 

They will never expel us. We are Scotland’s 3rd biggest club. However if we left the Scottish league we would seriously damage the brand. I’ve said this before but up until Covid 19 struck I was an enthusiastic supporter of the Scottish game, however they have deliberately done the Hearts damage and have failed in their duty of care to ALL clubs. We should now actively begin looking for a way out of Scottish football, into a bigger,richer and less corrupt league which will allow our club to grow and fulfill its potential.

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, Libertarian said:

They will never expel us. We are Scotland’s 3rd biggest club. However if we left the Scottish league we would seriously damage the brand. I’ve said this before but up until Covid 19 struck I was an enthusiastic supporter of the Scottish game, however they have deliberately done the Hearts damage and have failed in their duty of care to ALL clubs. We should now actively begin looking for a way out of Scottish football, into a bigger,richer and less corrupt league which will allow our club to grow and fulfill its potential.

Less corrupt would do me. 

[Rogue Daddy]

5 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hearing about Celtic scum getting done in weekly for taking the terrorism roadshow around the country, seeing them getting bad press and their fans exposed for the scum they are would warm my heart. I’d cheer ever goal against them, cheer of every tim punched, and delight in every bad headline. Their ugliness revealed to a nation that would have no fear of them would be beautiful. 

...the English press would have no fear of them also. That would be refreshing!

[TexasAndy]

As much as I would like to stick 2 fingers up at Scottish football and say bye, we're off the reality is it's a non starter.  English leagues don't need Hearts.  Championship and League One are full of sleeping giants.  They also don't need the OF.  Why would they want to take on the sectarian bile that spews from these two clubs week in week out.  2020 and yet we still have people that can't accept differences.  

[luckyBatistuta]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Hearing about Celtic scum getting done in weekly for taking the terrorism roadshow around the country, seeing them getting bad press and their fans exposed for the scum they are would warm my heart. I’d cheer ever goal against them, cheer of every tim punched, and delight in every bad headline. Their ugliness revealed to a nation that would have no fear of them would be beautiful. 

As much as I love the sound of that too, you just know it would be written that it was Scottish supporters that can’t behave and we would all be made to feel that we should hang our heads in shame every week for their vile behaviour.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

As much as I love the sound of that too, you just know it would be written that it was Scottish supporters that can’t behave and we would all be made to feel that we should hang our heads in shame every week for their vile behaviour.

Very true mate. They’d absolutely love both sets of them kicking off and making all of Scotland look like scum. I remember working with a bunch of mancs around the time Rangers got to the uefa cup final and told them what was on the way   I don’t think they believed me until they arrived en mass and ****ing trashed the place. They hadn’t ever seen human trash like it they said. 
 

[luckyBatistuta]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Very true mate. They’d absolutely love both sets of them kicking off and making all of Scotland look like scum. I remember working with a bunch of mancs around the time Rangers got to the uefa cup final and told them what was on the way   I don’t think they believed me until they arrived en mass and ****ing trashed the place. They hadn’t ever seen human trash like it they said. 
 

Friendliest people in the world though those weedgies 

[Jambo-Fox]

Today is the day for the SFA Hearing of the  Hearts charge for taking Court Action without permission when Arbitration ‘should have been’ pursued.

 

Will the SFA heed the SPFLs QC / Moynihan gleeful jibe of “you’re oot the gemme”? And suspend Hearts membership.
 

Unlikely but never say never, it’s the Scottish Football authorities ....

[Libertarian]

Aberdeen and Celtic players break regulations on social distancing and what does the SPFL do? Punish Hearts by ordering them to stop training. How much more do we have to take from the corrupt Scottish league? The club owes it to the supporters to seriously look at ways to get out of the sinking ship called Scottish football. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just no. For god's sake. We are a Scottish club playing in Scotland.

[Libertarian]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

Just no. For god's sake. We are a Scottish club playing in Scotland.

A Scottish club who are obviously not wanted in Scotland. The SPFL are out to destroy us at worst or at least deliberately weaken us so that we don't threaten the Glasgow teams. Why should we show any loyalty to this corrupt league. 

[jr ewing]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

That’s the problem. They’ve stopped us training, let alone playing. 

At least we should be asking.