Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Dazo]

33 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

There are many options for repayment.

It doesn't need to be  1.5 times their weekly wage, it could be spread out over a longer terms or repayed earlier if funds allowed i.e. player sales

The deferred wages is essentially rolled up into a loan to be repaid to the players

What are these options ? You’re assuming the players agree with this plethora of options. Regardless this is money that will be taken from future season income. Not a clever move going forward I’d suggest. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Aberdeen have got a good history with debt consolidation though. They did very well out of the banks before, perhaps they can do well with the players this time.

 

Each club will form a strategy, such an unusual event, nobody knows what the best risk is, nothing to learn from. Personally, I believe AB sees at as both Risk and Opportunity

 

I see her as being realistic about what's in store and trying to keep the club afloat, which is her job. I fail to see any opportunity here. If she just saw it as an opportunity to get rid of the wage bill she could use this clause 12. Seems to me she's trying not to take advantage of that.

 

No-one's going to be kicking a ball in earnest for many months, definitely not in front of fans. She is working on the basis that this will last 6 months minimum in terms of the impact on clubs' income. The government has said it's going to be 6 months at least before things might start returning to some sort of normality. I think a lot of other clubs are waking up to that reality much slower.

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

26 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not at time of unprecedented uncertainty surely? Aberdeen's wage bill is what 10m? So deferring 50% for say 6 months is leaving them on the hook for what over £2m potentially when this is all over? A lot of them may be playing for other clubs by the time they get repaid.

 

Each to their own I suppose but footballers are very highly paid and as a group generally show very little loyalty. Why should they get 100% of their relatively massive wages for doing nothing when many people still working are taking wage cuts and many more are losing their jobs?

 

I see both sides to the coin.

The aim here is to ensure there is the cashflow to ensure that all staff (especially non playing staff) can get paid.

If the aim is to retain to allow the season to complete, surely repaying when in better times would be the correct thing to do.

Player like Messi and Suarez can afford cuts no problem and still get significantly paid.

Players like Hickey (if the posts in here are correct) may not be in such a financially secure position.

 

A lot seems to be down to how long this goes on for and a short term deferment seems sensible to me. If its long terms that there will be more drastic consequences

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Aberdeen have got a good history with debt consolidation though. They did very well out of the banks before, perhaps they can do well with the players this time.

 

Each club will form a strategy, such an unusual event, nobody knows what the best risk is, nothing to learn from. Personally, I believe AB sees at as both Risk and Opportunity

 

7 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Thanks Sir Gio

Complete lack of comprehension and the irony is overwhelming

 

You mean this?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/399196/undefined-headline-677/amp/

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

Thanks Sir Gio

Complete lack of comprehension and the irony is overwhelming

 

Many Aberdeen fans wanted McInnes and his massive wage out before this happened. Can't see them being happy about him being paid 100% or even 50% and 50% deferred for the next 6 months of doing nothing while everyone else takes a massive haircut!

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I see both sides to the coin.

The aim here is to ensure there is the cashflow to ensure that all staff (especially non playing staff) can get paid.

If the aim is to retain to allow the season to complete, surely repaying when in better times would be the correct thing to do.

Player like Messi and Suarez can afford cuts no problem and still get significantly paid.

Players like Hickey (if the posts in here are correct) may not be in such a financially secure position.

 

A lot seems to be down to how long this goes on for and a short term deferment seems sensible to me. If its long terms that there will be more drastic consequences

 

It's going to be long-term. The UK is really just at the start of this thing, compared to say Spain and Italy.

Edited March 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[ramrod]

2 hours ago, Paint the town maroon said:

It will be interesting to see who has the most effective strategy.

 

We have used a sledge hammer but desperate needs and all that. I am personally pleased AB had been decisive as we can see very little leadership across the Scottish game. My gripe is the lower paid and non playing staff, not withstanding the living wage point made several times, if I was say the office manager on £40k and was told I would now be on £20k I would be screwed. Hopefully AB is tidying up on this detail and our snitch who goes to the sun is found out.

 

I will withhold criticism of Hibs approach just now. If they can pull it off then they will have managed this by not throwing staff under the bus. What they have done is more gradual and collaborative but less impactful. Selling season tickets now is a good idea though and we should be doing the same despite what league we might be in. 

Only deferring the players wages and putting season tickets on sale now to keep the club ticking over could be suicide if this continues for as long as it's foecsst to . 

They could be creating a massive problem for  themselves going forward . 

The longer we can  go without putting season tickets on sale the happier I'll be . We are going to need that revenue desperately when things eventually kick start again . 

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It's going to be long-term. The UK is really just at the start of this thing, compared to say Spain and Italy.

 

Quite possibly, so what's wrong with a short term deferment till the summer, when most contracts are defined and if stonger consequences are required, then those decisions can be made then.

Until there is certainty and decisions made i.e. the league, I think there is value in having a staged approach.

[...a bit disco]

Talking of season tickets.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

5 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Only deferring the players wages and putting season tickets on sale now to keep the club ticking over could be suicide if this continues for as long as it's foecsst to . 

They could be creating a massive problem for  themselves going forward . 

The longer we can  go without putting season tickets on sale the happier I'll be . We are going to need that revenue desperately when things eventually kick start again . 

 

I'm in two minds about STs. On the one hand it's a source of income. On the other it requires a large leap of faith from fans. We have FoH so ST money might be less of a priority.

 

I would be more comfortable with our owner taking in ST money now, in that I think she's be more likely to use it wisely (ie not giving it all to current players) than clubs like Dundee, Hibs and Dundee Utd with foreign owners who bought the clubs for money and/or status/ego rather than with the clubs' and communities' best interests at heart. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Quite possibly, so what's wrong with a short term deferment till the summer, when most contracts are defined and if stonger consequences are required, then those decisions can be made then.

Until there is certainty and decisions made i.e. the league, I think there is value in having a staged approach.

 

I think Autumn is the prediction for any sort of return to normality, not summer. But you've raised the issue here. Some, like Budge, see this as a 6 months thing. Others seem to still believe it will be another couple of months.

Edited March 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

I think Autumn is the prediction for any sort of return to normality, not summer.

Quite possibly. I'd expect that we'll be in a better position before then to know what the plan is.

[...a bit disco]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Be able to relive all those golden moments from...years ago. 

 

Current.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

Quite possibly. I'd expect that we'll be in a better position before then to know what the plan is.

 

Right, so isn't it prudent to plan for the worst-case scenario right now?

[south morocco]

4 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Depends if the hardcore could afford it,  given the current circumstances. 

That’s true 

[Rods]

3 hours ago, RonnieG said:

Thats true.  One of the players is a family friend. They suggested it to ensure non playing staff can be paid. 

 

Thanks RonnieG

 

So they are going down the blackmail route. This seems like short term thinking to me personally.

 

I would be concerned massively if the club felt their would be redundancies. Also is there another iceberg on the horizon as the impact becomes clearer in the states. 

 

The HSL money must be the last thing Ron the Con can hoover up. 

 

Mind you not that you would notice it over on hibs.net or amongst their fans they have their heads buried in Maroon sand at the moment.

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 hours ago, RonnieG said:

Thats true.  One of the players is a family friend. They suggested it to ensure non playing staff can be paid. 

 

And Hearts have suggested a way for both players and non-players to be paid. And we're getting the stick! Weird.

[The Roller]

I know he won’t be breaking the rules but this Aberdeen geezer being all over a thread on Hearts is starting to ****in rile me like.

 

With all that’s going on in the world, being on another fans forum like he is wouldn’t ever be, thankfully, something I’d ever think of indulging in. 

 

Creepy, weirdo behaviour.

[Beni]

I reckon the Hearts players that turn down the 50% cut will come to rue the day very quickly. There's a big dose of reality coming down the track and the pinheads who have been criticising Hearts can't see it yet.

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

I reckon the Hearts players that turn down the 50% cut will come to rue the day very quickly. There's a big dose of reality coming down the track and the pinheads who have been criticising Hearts can't see it yet.

 

Especially if Hearts just can the duds using the SFA/SPFL contract clause about league suspension.

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, sac said:

So if your a Barca player on 200k per week, you’ll now be on approx 50k per week. I don’t know how they’ll manage.

 

Does not matter the fact is they have taken a 70% cut in their earnings at their employer's request ... meanwhile Hearts are taking a pounding in the press for asking their playing staff to take a 50% cut.

It will happen soon I am sure but the fact is any club in Scotland that does not take some drastic cost cutting measures is going to be in very serious difficulty in the not too distant future. There will be no football played in front of paying customers for many months to come... six months will not be an exaggeration I would think it will be the minimum . And yet we hear the SFA and SPL talking about a resumption in August I will put money on that not happening.

[Hagar the Horrible]

This season will be axed. No question as it will be around october before football will be allowed to resume. The cup will be finished. Next season will reduced as the euros will take priority. All clubs will do something about players wages. Defer or half. Sooner or later some will invoke article 12 and get duds and crocks of the books. Some eventually will use it to punt gthe entire squad. Despite every effort some Will go into administration over a six month period. About a third by my fag packet maths. And a few just won't make it.  Not doom and gloom just realisation. But the game will get a forced reboot players wont be overpaid and a lot more home grown talent will be nurtured. The game will survive but will look very different including league reconstruction 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If clubs start using 2020/2021 season ticket money now, then come next February/March time, there must be at danger that they will have run out of cash and will struggle to complete season. Deferring wages only means you put problem out of sight for a few months, it doesn't resolve any problem whatsoever.

 

Unless you are mega wealthy with benefactor such as Qatar Or UAE, hard to see how wage cuts aren't the only viable solution.

Only if they don’t plan their cash flow sensibly over the next 12 months based on likely income. You are correct if they continue to spend at previous levels 

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Be able to relive all those golden moments from...years ago. 

 

Can't wait to re watch 2-2 draws against Hamilton at home

[Rods]

Looks like Ron the Con is hoovering up HSL money quicker than I expected. Things are escalating quickly at ER tick tock.

[jock _turd]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Only if they don’t plan their cash flow sensibly over the next 12 months based on likely income. You are correct if they continue to spend at previous levels 

 

 

Is this to be the correction in footballers wages that has been required for years ? Football players wages in Scotland are based largely on what players can earn in England time for Scottish teams to start recruiting from home sources because, as far as I can see, the majority of players at Hearts are not worth anywhere near what we are paying them. For some reason Hearts as a club has pursued a type of player that has failed miserably but paid said players big wages.

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I'm in two minds about STs. On the one hand it's a source of income. On the other it requires a large leap of faith from fans. We have FoH so ST money might be less of a priority.

 

I would be more comfortable with our owner taking in ST money now, in that I think she's be more likely to use it wisely (ie not giving it all to current players) than clubs like Dundee, Hibs and Dundee Utd with foreign owners who bought the clubs for money and/or status/ego rather than with the clubs' and communities' best interests at heart. 

I'm not in rwo minds.

It's like pushing water up a hill.

[jock _turd]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

Looks like Ron the Con is hoovering up HSL money quicker than I expected. Things are escalating quickly at ER tick tock.

 

Care to expand on that?

[Rods]

5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Care to expand on that?

HSL shareholders(if you can call them that) have decided to pump money into the club to help during this difficult time. 
 

I thought it would be a matter of time before the HSL money is trousered looks like it’s starting quicker than expected. 
 

 

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Rods said:

HSL shareholders(if you can call them that) have decided to pump money into the club to help during this difficult time. 
 

I thought it would be a matter of time before the HSL money is trousered looks like it’s starting quicker than expected. 
 

 

That should keep the cleaner going until the lockdown is over 🤷🏾‍♂️🤔😜.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Class 

[jock _turd]

15 minutes ago, Rods said:

HSL shareholders(if you can call them that) have decided to pump money into the club to help during this difficult time. 
 

I thought it would be a matter of time before the HSL money is trousered looks like it’s starting quicker than expected. 
 

 

I am sorry I don't understand what you are saying here. Is what they are doing in some way different to what we are doing through FOH ? ... other of course that they will never own any share in the club for their efforts. I dislike the hobos as much as the next Hearts supporter but in fairness to those of them who are sumping up their cash... for purely the good of their club I actually say well done... as I would to any football club supporter doing the same.

[sac]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

Does not matter the fact is they have taken a 70% cut in their earnings at their employer's request ... meanwhile Hearts are taking a pounding in the press for asking their playing staff to take a 50% cut.

It will happen soon I am sure but the fact is any club in Scotland that does not take some drastic cost cutting measures is going to be in very serious difficulty in the not too distant future. There will be no football played in front of paying customers for many months to come... six months will not be an exaggeration I would think it will be the minimum . And yet we hear the SFA and SPL talking about a resumption in August I will put money on that not happening.

I was being sarcastic m8, & I get what you’re saying.

Incidentally, Messi is on £600k per week, or approx £150k per week after he takes the hit.

[Rods]

5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

I am sorry I don't understand what you are saying here. Is what they are doing in some way different to what we are doing through FOH ? ... other of course that they will never own any share in the club for their efforts. I dislike the hobos as much as the next Hearts supporter but in fairness to those of them who are sumping up their cash... for purely the good of their club I actually say well done... as I would to any football club supporter doing the same.

They are throwing money at the club for no return not even shares.

 

I was under the impression they were run really well model finance etc. The picture now unfolding is of donations and Redundancies. I also knew it would not be long before the HSL money would be hoovered up. Ron the Con is not putting anymore money in and there is a financial crisis. It could spell trouble for Hibs  

[jock _turd]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

They are throwing money at the club for no return not even shares.

 

I was under the impression they were run really well model finance etc. The picture now unfolding is of donations and Redundancies. I also knew it would not be long before the HSL money would be hoovered up. Ron the Con is not putting anymore money in and there is a financial crisis. It could spell trouble for Hibs  

If you can just stop being bitter for just a minute they are doing what true supporters would do under the present circumstances. For the avoidance of any doubt our own owner has more or less highlighted the same scenario at our club and asked for our players to take a wage hit so we do not end up in the same shit. Nevermind Hibs being in the trouble the whole of Scottish football could be in serious trouble when the dust settles on this terrible episode . Hearts fans and Hibs fans are going to die as well maybe tens of each clubs supporters.

[Rods]

7 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

If you can just stop being bitter for just a minute they are doing what true supporters would do under the present circumstances. For the avoidance of any doubt our own owner has more or less highlighted the same scenario at our club and asked for our players to take a wage hit so we do not end up in the same shit. Nevermind Hibs being in the trouble the whole of Scottish football could be in serious trouble when the dust settles on this terrible episode . Hearts fans and Hibs fans are going to die as well maybe tens of each clubs supporters.

Na I am not going to stop being bitter our club has been getting hammered left right and centre no one has stopped hammering us due to this pandemic the Hibs fans and ex players have been the worse of the lot. 

[ramrod]

Just now, Rods said:

Na I am not going to stop being bitter our club has been getting hammered left right and centre no one has stopped hammering us due to this pandemic the Hibs fans and ex players have been the worse of the lot. 

Well said . 

Why clowns on here stick up for that manky  mob is beyond me , apart from the obvious reason . 

[jock _turd]

Just now, Rods said:

Na I am not going to stop being bitter our club has been getting hammered left right and centre no one has stopped hammering us due to this pandemic the Hibs fans and ex players have been the worse of the lot. 

I can understand you are not happy that we are taking a hammering in the press, neither am I and have stated so in this very thread. But I am not going to slag supporters off for doing what is right for their club. As for the Hibs fans and ex players... I would be willing to bet those who have carried on in this manner are in the minority and probably will not be the ones contributing to the club. It is ironic that it is usually those who are shouting the odds about what is going on at other clubs are those who are actually doing little in the way of contribution to their own team's cause. 

[Homme]

I really didn't like the brutal nature this played out but I am very confident we will be in a better position than most next season, whenever it starts. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

36 minutes ago, Rods said:

They are throwing money at the club for no return not even shares.

 

I was under the impression they were run really well model finance etc. The picture now unfolding is of donations and Redundancies. I also knew it would not be long before the HSL money would be hoovered up. Ron the Con is not putting anymore money in and there is a financial crisis. It could spell trouble for Hibs  

Hibs are in a better financial situation than us, in terms of cash in the bank, they’ll be able to pay full wages for longer than us if they so wish, so don’t get your hopes up.

 

I don’t see what’s wrong with fans donations either.  Our club relies on them.  Where would we be without FOH and the other millions from the benefactors?

 

[Homme]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Where would we be without FOH and the other millions from the benefactors?

 

 

With a squad we could afford, obviously. 

[HMFC01]

One things for sure.  The fans will pay the way before anyone else. That goes for most clubs except maybe Celtic (until they also need help),.  Our situation I still think the players should pay for their brutal efforts.

 

I don't see many owners pumping money into clubs.  They mostly invest into the club and make it pay for itself.  Which is very fair.  

[Borders Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Hibs are in a better financial situation than us, in terms of cash in the bank, they’ll be able to pay full wages for longer than us if they so wish, so don’t get your hopes up.

 

I don’t see what’s wrong with fans donations either.  Our club relies on them.  Where would we be without FOH and the other millions from the benefactors?

 

Can I ask how you know that they have more cash in he bank.

Not having a go but for information.

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

With a squad we could afford, obviously. 

With a massive debt on the over budget stand.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Hibs are in a better financial situation than us, in terms of cash in the bank, they’ll be able to pay full wages for longer than us if they so wish, so don’t get your hopes up.

 

I don’t see what’s wrong with fans donations either.  Our club relies on them.  Where would we be without FOH and the other millions from the benefactors?

 

 

Are they? If true and they don't pay full wages even while sitting on lots of cash, what will that say about Hibs? I assume the press will be on it the same way they are with us.

 

Or if true and they use up all that cash to pay players full wages for a couple of months while Hibs fans everywhere take wage cuts or lose their jobs, where does that land them? No cash reserves and wages still to pay, potentially while still getting no income. If this thing drags on, they'd have to eventually do what Budge is doing but they'd be doing it too late.

 

Budge's approach has been by far the most balanced and proactive so far in terms of attempting to both pay employees and protect the club.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

With a massive debt on the over budget stand.

 

Edit: I see you're trying to make out we're only debt-free because of donations and that's why we shouldn't have a go at Hibs fans for donating.

 

I agree all football fans will be supporting their clubs if they can. There's nothing wrong with Hibs fans making donations. We're only in business because of fan donations. It's very unclear though what they'll be used for as their owner and his motivation for owning Hibs still a bit of a mystery. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Fozzyonthefence]

8 minutes ago, Borders Jambo said:

Can I ask how you know that they have more cash in he bank.

Not having a go but for information.

There’s numerous references to the SPL clubs’ cash reserves sourced from their accounts in different threads here. Can’t remember where but they’re out there.  

[Homme]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

With a massive debt on the over budget stand.

 

If your auntie had baws etc etc. 

 

We have FOH and we have benefactors. Lucky us. 

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

We have no external debt.

But we would if we didn’t have FOH and benefactor donations.  That was precisely my point.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

 

Is this to be the correction in footballers wages that has been required for years ? Football players wages in Scotland are based largely on what players can earn in England time for Scottish teams to start recruiting from home sources because, as far as I can see, the majority of players at Hearts are not worth anywhere near what we are paying them. For some reason Hearts as a club has pursued a type of player that has failed miserably but paid said players big wages.

Hopefully