Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I hope we appoint someone with a record of successfully running a football club or similar business. Jackson is great at saving apparently hopeless cases in administration but I'd hope that that won't be the main criterion for appointing the next CEO.

He knows football and Hearts for that matter inside out though and would do a great job imo. But someone else with business acumen might be better.

[jock _turd]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The 1963 freeze saw games postponed for weeks on end and the season extended.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11174639/leicester-english-football-paused-winter-1963/ 

 

I'm not sure if any club folded directly as a result.

 To be fair back then players got paid very poorly by today's standards so I am not at all surprised that there were fewer problems . 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I can’t seem to paste this but here is the later BBC piece I was quoting. I’m not saying clubs will do it but they can legally, my point is that football rules mean nothing in the real world anymore than those in any sport. I think an agreement will be made to pay them off at a time when we can afford to do so. 

 

They weren't made redundant, they never had their contracts renewed. 

 

Sorry, I was aiming that at the management part.

 

We were in administration though and players can be laid off in those circumstances.

Edited March 19, 2020 by graygo

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

They weren't made redundant, they never had their contracts renewed.

Stevenson had a year on his deal left and was released according to the BBC, I accept that’s not irrefutable evidence. I was showing it can be done if they want to, but you agree with that though 😜.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[graygo]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Stevenson had a year on his deal left and was released according to the BBC, I accept that’s not irrefutable evidence. I was showing it can be done if they want to, but you agree with that though 😜.

 

You replied before my edit.

[flecktimus]

50 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

“I thought she would be looking ahead, summing up the situation and doing what she thinks is right for the survival of the club, because that’s what she’s doing – it’s about making sure the club is still here after the virus.

“These are peculiar circumstances. We don’t know the end result. I know what it’s like to operate with a cash flow when you’re dependent on weekly and monthly income.

“This is different when – say it’s the weather, even postponing just one game, the income from that game is budgeted to pay your wages. So I understand the problem the club has now.

“Ann is looking at the situation, thinking, ‘We’ve already missed games and we don’t know when the picture will change. It could be two weeks, two months or even longer – so we need to do something right now.’

“To me that does seem to be the right thing to do.

“To wait too long and not do anything could be more dangerous for the sustainability of the club. Ann is right to do what she thinks is necessary now.”

 

Bryan Jackson.

 

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sport/bryan-jackson-backs-hearts-ceo-ann-budge-over-wage-cut/

Bryan Jackson : Thats good enough for me that Anne is making the right choices.

[Unknown user]

37 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Yes I know it's Phil three names , however it's his accountant guy he is quoiting, Can't copy and paste so you will just have to go to his site to read it. Casts a big black cloud over Hunbrox.

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/19/rugger-guy-looks-at-sevcos-cash-situation-during-the-shutdown/#more-16031

I can't stand the despicable hun as much as the next regular human being, but that utter w⚓ 's been saying they're at death's door for literally years now.

[JamboAl]

26 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Has Bryan Jackson said football clubs get away with mass termination of contracts without occurring a penalty aye?

He said AB is doing the right thing.  Do you agree with that?

What club is going tits up exactly? 
Many clubs will do so if players are paid by clubs with no income to cover the outlay

Al, name one football club that has terminated players contracts (unwillingly) that hasn’t been during an insolvency event that got away with it with no charge? Name just one. 

Your last question is not relevant to this current situation.  You should go and collect honey from that bee in your bonnet.

[martoon]

5 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

What he said 👆

At least AB is getting out in front of this, making decisions... **** the rest of them (ie. fans of other clubs poking fun), like it or not, she is 'leading' for the better of the club. 

Yes, mistakes have been made (what club hasn't made them).. but this is about survival. If I was the fan of another club I would be questioning why I hadn't heard anything!

 

Most club, including the holy Hibees, will have to take steps of some kind to ride out the next few months. You're right, Hearts are leading the way. 

 

PS. Went on to your profile by mistake. Jumpy screen. Hate when that happens. 😬😉

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

Most club, including the holy Hibees, will have to take steps of some kind to ride out the next few months. You're right, Hearts are leading the way. 

 

PS. Went on to your profile by mistake. Jumpy screen. Hate when that happens. 😬😉

🤣 absolutely NOTHING of interest there! 👍

[East Lothian Jambo]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I can't stand the despicable hun as much as the next regular human being, but that utter w⚓ 's been saying they're at death's door for literally years now.

He certainly has. He has a very unhealthy obsession with Rangers 

[martoon]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I can't stand the despicable hun as much as the next regular human being, but that utter w⚓ 's been saying they're at death's door for literally years now.

 

Gets attention by saying everything the brain dead Celtic fan laps up. 

 

Same as that yachtsman on Hibs.nest. All those slabbering, slavering Hibbies paying a tenner to read what they desperately want to read. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Footballers aren't secured creditors in insolvency situations. They are employees just like all the club's office or shop staff.  They are just as likely to be asked to take a pay cut or made redundant as anyone else. I think any "preferred creditor" status only applies to redundancy payments.

 

That was evidenced in Hearts own administration.

 

It is the rule books of the Football Associations and Leagues that require all "football creditors" to be paid in full, under the threat of football sanctions.

 

Again, Hearts football creditors were paid in full, not because of the provisions of the CVA agreement, but because of the then SPL/SFA rules, otherwise the club could have had further sanctions applied. They were repaid from FOH's initial cash injection after the club exited administration.

Possibly different in Scotland to England. In England, if you want the golden share transferred from Oldco you have to pay all football debts in full, including wages. It’s non-negotiable.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Well it doesn't say without their consent. And it doesn't specify what might be part of a termination arrangement (presumably something other than paying the contract up in full).

 

But people seem to be avoiding the issue here.

Thousands of businesses are going to go bust. Hundreds of thousands of people (potentially millions) are going to have their pay cut by 100%. Breach of contract? "So sue me". If there's suddenly a million people with a case for breach of contract - how are the courts going to cope with that? How are the courts going to operate full stop? We're in uncharted waters and people (especially professional footballers) will need to stop being quite so self-centred. 

 

And as for people criticising AB for this, that's just agenda-driven nonsense.

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea. I’m just saying the club don’t have the right to say ‘take option a or b’. There is a third possibility which is that the players refuse to do either, which legally they’re entitled to do

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Yes I know it's Phil three names , however it's his accountant guy he is quoiting, Can't copy and paste so you will just have to go to his site to read it. Casts a big black cloud over Hunbrox.

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/03/19/rugger-guy-looks-at-sevcos-cash-situation-during-the-shutdown/#more-16031

That boy is an absolute slaver.

[The Treasurer]

48 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

I read that Ann Budge just received a repayment of a loan.

Could she offer to reissue that money, again as a loan, to save having to reduce the wages of the Hearts staff?

It may push back the fan ownership a bit but secures the staff.

Or maybe she could sell off the ground to her own building company and move us to the middle of nowhere.

 

 

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, The Treasurer said:

Or maybe she could sell off the ground to her own building company and move us to the middle of nowhere.

 

 

 

Rather irrelevant.

I know all clubs will be struggling at the moment, but just thought this might be an option.

 

Wonder what the emergency meeting at Hamoden will come out with 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Spoiler

Pretty sure the outcome will include nothing revolutionary, nothing insightful and nothing helpful.

No idea why I used hidden comments. No idea how I even 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Malinga the Swinga
Stupidity

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 hour ago, Fly the Saltire said:

 

Scottish  schools and hospitals not in ruins and performing better than other parts of UK.   However priority during Covid19 is maintaining public services  and providing help for the less well off and most vulnerable.   Football is not more important than life and death .

 

  

Haha yeah ok..

[Last Laff]

54 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I can’t seem to paste this but here is the later BBC piece I was quoting. I’m not saying clubs will do it but they can legally, my point is that football rules mean nothing in the real world anymore than those in any sport. I think an agreement will be made to pay them off at a time when we can afford to do so. Just getting a bit rage about being sacked and football thinking they’re above the law off my chest, didn’t mean to offend anyone. 

Yeah that was the second time he left - during administration mate. 

[kelosom]

3 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Well it doesn't say without their consent. And it doesn't specify what might be part of a termination arrangement (presumably something other than paying the contract up in full).

 

But people seem to be avoiding the issue here.

Thousands of businesses are going to go bust. Hundreds of thousands of people (potentially millions) are going to have their pay cut by 100%. Breach of contract? "So sue me". If there's suddenly a million people with a case for breach of contract - how are the courts going to cope with that? How are the courts going to operate full stop? We're in uncharted waters and people (especially professional footballers) will need to stop being quite so self-centred. 

 

And as for people criticising AB for this, that's just agenda-driven nonsense.

This, everyone is having to effectively cut their cloth, poor show on anyone with or without an employment contract thinks they are excluded is not on. This is affecting all of us no matter what your profession. We should be looking out for each other without this virus, I’m happy to renew my season ticket like others now if it helps everyone at the club

[Last Laff]

40 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Your last question is not relevant to this current situation.  You should go and collect honey from that bee in your bonnet.

He said he agrees that AB is correct in doing something straight away, he falls short in saying the procedure in place was the right one to put in place.  
 

The rest of your post is gobbledygook Al.  

[TWF]

21 hours ago, Jambojamie91 said:

Massive mishandling of the club by budge. Everything is over budget, in what she’s been involved in. We were only in profit last year due to a benefactor. She’s overstayed her welcome

And who might her replacement be?

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

He said he agrees that AB is correct in doing something straight away, he falls short in saying the procedure in place was the right one to put in place.  
 

The rest of your post is gobbledygook Al.  

What do you think we (Hearts, that is) should be doing?

[Nookie Bear]

25 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea. I’m just saying the club don’t have the right to say ‘take option a or b’. There is a third possibility which is that the players refuse to do either, which legally they’re entitled to do

That’s how I am reading this. 
 

I get that thousands are losing their jobs, and I expect most understand the reasons why, but nobody is going to leave without their contract or terms of notice being paid up. 
 

Anyway, if we were going to make a fight of it, sack Levein, MacPhee, Murray etc and see what they do. I would rather piss them off than Hickey or Souttar

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

The 1963 freeze saw games postponed for weeks on end and the season extended.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11174639/leicester-english-football-paused-winter-1963/ 

 

I'm not sure if any club folded directly as a result.

 

Players wages would not have been such a big issue back then though...

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Douglas Fraser@BBCDouglasF 9m

@EDI_Airport  announces plans to shut down much of it, but stay open, at least for freight, mail, medical flights. At least 100 of 750 jobs on the payroll will go, maybe many more. Traffic this month -65%, much of that now in repatriation flights

Around 7000 people work in or around @EDI_Airport. Shops, restaurants, bars being shuttered, with only 3 expected to remain open. Assuming a 2-month shutdown of most flights, management working on assumption that passenger traffic will be half of 2019.

 

That is the reality of what is happening outside the football bubble. Note that at least 100 jobs will go. Those people will have contracts. They can be broken.

 

It's football that needs to sort out its navel gazing and self interest rule book.

 

My daughter works at Edin airport. Already been told her job is on a shoogly peg.

 

I though the UK Gov were announcing a special assistance for airports and airlines?

 

As a BTW, Edin Airport paid out £200Million in dividends and bonuses to shareholders last year and they didnt even wait a week to tell their staff that their jobs were on the line. They couldnt suggest waiting for 2 - 3 months and then re-evaluate. Greedy greedy barstewards!

Edited March 19, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[Last Laff]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

What do you think we (Hearts, that is) should be doing?

I would make a decision based on how the finances look.  

 

You’re also jumping the gun by just assuming I don’t back the club in this.  I can totally understand why the club has taken these decisions.  The only gripe I might have is not trying to get any sort of transfer value for the likes of Hickey. 
 

Ill say it again also, I don’t think the club has in place any kind of “accept the offer or your contract gets ripped up” conditions in place. 
 

I can’t be arsed with you again so please don’t reply with 100 more questions and acting like thread ban bait as per usual. 

[Heartsofgold]

12 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

He said he agrees that AB is correct in doing something straight away, he falls short in saying the procedure in place was the right one to put in place.  
 

The rest of your post is gobbledygook Al.  

 

So out of curiosity what would your solution be for us going forward?  You are very critical of Budge here but give no alternative solution.

[Busby8]

39 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea. I’m just saying the club don’t have the right to say ‘take option a or b’. There is a third possibility which is that the players refuse to do either, which legally they’re entitled to do

 

....... is the correct answer.

 

 

[kila]

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

My daughter works at Edin airport. Already been told her job is on a shoogly peg.

 

I though the UK Gov were announcing a special assistance for airports and airlines?

 

As a BTW, Edin Airport paid out £200Million in dividends and bonuses to shareholders and they didnt even wait a week to tell their staff that their jobs were on the line. They couldnt suggest waiting for 2 - 3 months and then re-evaluate. Greedy greedy barstewards!

 

Incredible the greed in the private sector.

 

I saw US airlines in the last 5 years have given over $46 billion to shareholders, yet they need a bailout from the government.

 

[busby1985]

My 42 year old cousin, who has kids, often sends me snippets from that Phil crackpot as he knows my connection to Rangers. He’s a grown man and he says £1brox or Ibroke when ever he asks if I am at a game. Horrendous patter for an actual adult. 

[Last Laff]

19 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

 

So out of curiosity what would your solution be for us going forward?  You are very critical of Budge here but give no alternative solution.

Can you point me out where I’ve been critical please? I’ve said above. 
 

There’s a middle ground though.  

Edited March 19, 2020 by Last Laff

[JamboAl]

21 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

I would make a decision based on how the finances look.  

What do you imagine AB will have done?

You’re also jumping the gun by just assuming I don’t back the club in this.  I can totally understand why the club has taken these decisions.  The only gripe I might have is not trying to get any sort of transfer value for the likes of Hickey. 
I'm not jumping any gun.  You are constantly denigrating our club (HMFC) and seldom have anything good to say.

Re Hickey we have been trying to extend his contract.  What bids have we had and rejected?

Ill say it again also, I don’t think the club has in place any kind of “accept the offer or your contract gets ripped up” conditions in place. 
You DON'T THINK.  Well you've got that bit right.

I take it then you are just guessing but would like to criticise AB anyhow?

AB is an experienced businesswoman who I'm sure wrll have considered beyond these options.  I'm a bit disappointed she hasn't informed you re her future strategy.

I can’t be arsed with you again so please don’t reply with 100 more questions and acting like thread ban bait as per usual. 

I can't be arsed with your constant baseless griping that you cannot justify and that is why you don't want questions.

Edited March 19, 2020 by JamboAl

[Footballfirst]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-players-seek-legal-advice-over-contract-clause-stating-wages-can-be-suspended-2502446

 

All contracts in Scotland are ratified by the authorities and include the following clause: “In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or district as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

Edited March 19, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Bull's-eye]

Usual Shit stirrers looking for anything to stir the Shit about.

 

The only real thing about JKB these days  😦

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Barack said:

Exactly. Like I was posting just then, today's meeting at Hampden is going to be very interesting.

 

Noticed as well after being on here, Ian Murray saying what we all know in terms of £1.5 million being absolute chicken-feed.

 

Advocating Government money too, like I've surmised earlier on. It's inevitable. Football is an employment and entertainment package. Precisely why the Government have put these financial measures at businesses disposal should they need them.

 

You don't want to be the one in charge of the National game, that oversaw the collapse of possibly dozens of teams. 

 

 

Disagree that football should get any goverment money. Until Scottish football shows itself as being run properly and fairly, for the good of all clubs and not just two from Glasgow, until they have a chief executive who proves the industry is taking steps to organise the future in a positive and structured way, then they deserve and should get nothing.

[Nookie Bear]

It would be a disgrace if professional football clubs, many of whom have employees earning 6-figure sums each year, receive government assistance. 
 

There are thousands of private sporting clubs that will be struggling right now and provide a vital lifeline for many in the community. 

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Usual Shit stirrers looking for anything to stir the Shit about.

 

The only real thing about JKB these days  😦

Which is pretty much what your post does. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-players-seek-legal-advice-over-contract-clause-stating-wages-can-be-suspended-2502446

 

All contracts in Scotland are ratified by the authorities and include the following clause: “In the event of the Scottish FA deciding that the game shall be suspended, either entirely or in any district or district as provided for in the articles of association of the Scottish FA, this agreement shall be correspondingly suspended, unless the club is exempted from such suspension or the club otherwise determines.”

So decent offer in the circumstances. 

 

Restaurant workers on zero hours contracts etc.

 

Not so fortunate 

[i8hibsh]

Regardless of these extra ordinary circumstances these players should be voluntarily giving up half their salary. They are a disgrace and fo not do their job well.

[McCrae]

7 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

It would be a disgrace if professional football clubs, many of whom have employees earning 6-figure sums each year, receive government assistance. 
 

There are thousands of private sporting clubs that will be struggling right now and provide a vital lifeline for many in the community. 

I agree.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

You replied before my edit.

Annoying when that happens 😃, I think we were out of admin by then.

[the_jailer]

Ross County have written to their players today to guarantee contracts will be honoured in full throughout Coronavirus crisis

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Yeah that was the second time he left - during administration mate. 

That was after the season finished and we were out of admin were we not?

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Regardless of these extra ordinary circumstances these players should be voluntarily giving up half their salary. They are a disgrace and fo not do their job well.

Why do you care. You don't contribute towards Hearts in any way, shape or for.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, the_jailer said:

Ross County have written to their players today to guarantee contracts will be honoured in full throughout Coronavirus crisis

Just asking but did they guarantee all staff, not just players, will receive full pay and no job losses during the crisis.

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That was after the season finished and we were out of admin were we not?

No, was the same time Jamie Mac got released and Lockey got let go too ( I think) 2014 after relegation. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Last Laff

[the_jailer]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Just asking but did they guarantee all staff, not just players, will receive full pay and no job losses during the crisis.

Not sure mate. I just seen this on Twitter 

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 minutes ago, the_jailer said:

Not sure mate. I just seen this on Twitter 

Hope they did. Would be selfish to protect players and not other staff.