Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[S Form]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

What do you think the word "offered" means?

In this case it’s the kind of ‘offer’ featured in The Godfather. It’s pretty obvious - take the 50% cut or get on your bike.

[jambocub]

51 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Nice theory but I think the players got an email and or a phone call an hour or so before the announcement. There was no opportunity to speak to the players as a group as no one is in this week. Now senior players may have known but I really don’t think they did. 

Players and Anne budge we're all in on Monday morning 

[Jim Panzee]

4 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

I see the Samaritans still have you on ignore........clever people! 

lol

[bigsuperslim1874]

9 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

Am not the clued in lad. I know one first team player, he’s barely featured and only has months left on his contract and probably would’ve been moved on in the summer anyway. He wasn’t impressed as you’d imagine and he painted a pretty angry reaction to the announcement but am taken that with a pinch of salt. 
 

Smith was always gonna leave in the summer anyway I’d imagine but I would also miss him actual. 

Fair doos mate. 👍

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Good point.

Reading the statement again I am just saying what Ann said … July/early August is "likely to be the earliest football will resume." End of the year seems more likely the way this thing is developing. In the absence of government support (and I don't think anyone will see football as a priority) I can only see the majority of clubs going under, the penalties for administration being suspended, and football resuming in effectively a new league.

[busby1985]

1 minute ago, jambocub said:

Players and Anne budge we're all in on Monday morning 

Yeah and they were told they were to come in in small groups, avoid cinemas, gyms, gatherings etc etc. They knew nothing about what has since transpired. 

[Jamstomorrow]

21 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Losers to a man. 90% of them are a disgrace to the club. 

Listen to this chap.  He is an authority on being a loser and a disgrace to the club!   Ken what I am saying?

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, ModJambo said:

 

Well yeah it's uncertain how long things are going to be like this.

 

I'm just stating a ball park figure?

And I was as I just said just repeating the club's own ball park figure of the earliest football might resume.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Francis Albert

[It should have been ten]

9 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

I see the Samaritans still have you on ignore........clever people! 

Well said 

[Hackney Hearts]

17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

What do you think the word "offered" means?

 

Semantics. There's clearly no point in a termination "offer" if there's still a 100% pay option. I think most people understand the terminology being used.

 

Those that don't like  the 50% cut "will be offered the option of contract termination".

Note - option, singular. There is no other option on offer.

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Hackney Hearts

[ModJambo]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And I was as I just said just repeating the club's own ball park figure of the earliest football might resume.

 

I was maybe being a tad optimistic.  

 

If it's true what they say about this virus peaking in May/June in Europe then loads of things will be off for months.

 

I think there'll be far more football clubs in worse off positions than us.

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, S Form said:

In this case it’s the kind of ‘offer’ featured in The Godfather. It’s pretty obvious - take the 50% cut or get on your bike.

So it is horses heads in the in the players beds. 

Or large lawyers bills defending breach of contract claims.

[allanwilson1970]

I think this is definitely a request out of necessity, we are probably facing a real financial  crisis same as majority other clubs in Scotland. Budge probably knows the answer to “will the league finish” and if the answer is no, “will we be relegated”. Over the last week I am sure she has taken legal advice in this. She has then made this request now instead of waiting till the end of June with full salary payments, because if we are going down the squad will not resemble anything like it does now. So we will have 3 reactions from the players as I see it, 1  - they will accept it for a few months as they plan to be here long term 2 – others will reject then engineer a free transfer and a new club in a way they will not be impacted at all 3 – players will reject it and sit tight as they will be riding the storm to 1 get it up Stendel and same time hope he leaves before they do.

[jr ewing]

She's 100 % right. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, allanwilson1970 said:

I think this is definitely a request out of necessity, we are probably facing a real financial  crisis same as majority other clubs in Scotland. Budge probably knows the answer to “will the league finish” and if the answer is no, “will we be relegated”. Over the last week I am sure she has taken legal advice in this. She has then made this request now instead of waiting till the end of June with full salary payments, because if we are going down the squad will not resemble anything like it does now. So we will have 3 reactions from the players as I see it, 1  - they will accept it for a few months as they plan to be here long term 2 – others will reject then engineer a free transfer and a new club in a way they will not be impacted at all 3 – players will reject it and sit tight as they will be riding the storm to 1 get it up Stendel and same time hope he leaves before they do.

How many of our players realistically have option 2?

[S Form]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

So it is horses heads in the in the players beds. 

Or large lawyers bills defending breach of contract claims.

In the current circumstances what’s the point of ‘offering’ a 50% pay cut if people can simply turn around and refuse it? The only income the club has is FOH money. I’m not sure if the government support can be accessed by football clubs, but I don’t think there would be much public backing for last resort cash reserves going to footballers.

[i8hibsh]

21 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

I see the Samaritans still have you on ignore........clever people! 

 

Why would it be clever for the Samaritans to have someone on ignore?

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, S Form said:

In the current circumstances what’s the point of ‘offering’ a 50% pay cut if people can simply turn around and refuse it? The only income the club has is FOH money. I’m not sure if the government support can be accessed by football clubs, but I don’t think there would be much public backing for last resort cash reserves going to footballers.

Players will get a mortgage or rent holiday like the rest of us for at least 3 months or more. That must help significantly too. 

[graygo]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Reading the statement again I am just saying what Ann said … July/early August is "likely to be the earliest football will resume." End of the year seems more likely the way this thing is developing. In the absence of government support (and I don't think anyone will see football as a priority) I can only see the majority of clubs going under, the penalties for administration being suspended, and football resuming in effectively a new league.

 

Agreed. A total reset and I'm not sure that's a bad thing as the game was getting out if control financially.

[Hearts007]

16 minutes ago, ModJambo said:

 

I was maybe being a tad optimistic.  

 

If it's true what they say about this virus peaking in May/June in Europe then loads of things will be off for months.

 

I think there'll be far more football clubs in worse off positions than us.

definitely

[NaturalOrder74]

Half of them should have been offered this anyway for no kicking a ball in two years apart from against hibs and sevco 😂

 

wonder if levein will accept his 50% wage drop or just stay on full wages for his contribution 

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, S Form said:

In the current circumstances what’s the point of ‘offering’ a 50% pay cut if people can simply turn around and refuse it? The only income the club has is FOH money. I’m not sure if the government support can be accessed by football clubs, but I don’t think there would be much public backing for last resort cash reserves going to footballers.

 

Because their contract will be terminated.

 

Its then a 100% pay cut. 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

14 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Why would it be clever for the Samaritans to have someone on ignore?

[Jambof3tornado]

On the postive the pitch will look fekkin awesome when we get back on it!!

[FarmerTweedy]

15 hours ago, The Fonz said:

Real shame for any of the non-football staff affected. I’m not going to shed any tears for the players, all of whom have failed to justify whatever they’re getting paid just now. 
 

We might yet see other clubs follow suit, but the fact that we’ve had to take such action at this stage is a concern. Anyone that is still buying the “well run business” line needs is deluded. Frightening how much cash we’ve pissed away through sheer incompetence. 

Anyone who thinks having to take drastic action to keep the club going when pretty much the entire income of the club has been cut off for an indeterminate period of time is an indication that the club isn't a well run business is quite staggeringly stupid. 

 

The only ways any business would be able to avoid this sort of action would be to either hold sufficient cash reserves at all times to cover such eventualities (which in our case would mean having a minimum of several million quid sitting in the bank doing nothing at all times) or to run up an ever-growing overdraft.

 

How anyone can think either option would be sensible, or even viable, for Hearts is beyond me.

[joondalupjambo]

Is Ann not wanting to agree things with individuals within this FY tax year? Assuming that ends on 6th April.  Not an accountant but perhaps there is some benefit to working to that window if that is indeed the date.  Any accountants on here know?

[Rogue Daddy]

2 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Anyone who thinks having to take drastic action to keep the club going when pretty much the entire income of the club has been cut off for an indeterminate period of time is an indication that the club isn't a well run business is quite staggeringly stupid. 

 

The only ways any business would be able to avoid this sort of action would be to either hold sufficient cash reserves at all times to cover such eventualities (which in our case would mean having a minimum of several million quid sitting in the bank doing nothing at all times) or to run up an ever-growing overdraft.

 

How anyone can think either option would be sensible, or even viable, for Hearts is beyond me.

Exactly this.... AB, Hearts and everyone else, do no know how long this will last. Cut backs, unfortunately, have to start now. She can't sit back and pay out hundreds of thousands of £s every month with NOTHING coming in.

For me, she's the only chief exec acting like one!

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Exactly this.... AB, Hearts and everyone else, do not know how long this will last. Cut backs, unfortunately, have to start now. She can't sit back and pay out hundreds of thousands of £s every month with NOTHING coming in.

For me, she's the only chief exec acting like one!

 

[tokyowalnut]

This is not a time to hammer the club. Individuals giving AB abuse is a nonsense, although from some, not surprising. 

 

It is simple economics, no income, no cash flow to pay the bills. Cash reserves will be low, like any business the outgoings are budgeted against forecast results. 

 

Im self employed and my income is about to be zero, the cash reserves I have are for my tax bill in July, I'll be keeping hold of that for now! 

 

The gloating from some is very crass. 

 

I've just read on Twitter about one of the Hearts coaches that have had to go on to unpaid leave Almost immediately a Hibs troll has jumped on to say how much of a disgrace Hearts are. 

 

Not the time for petty point scoring. 

 

But, as always, FTH!!

[joondalupjambo]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Because their contract will be terminated.

 

Its then a 100% pay cut. 

If a player's contract is terminated, early by the club do the club then not need to pay the players contract out or at least agree a lump sum pay off?

The players are not at fault hete so no breach of the contract on their part.  

Would the issue for some players not be to sit right and do nothing, especially if they are on long term deals.

I am not saying I am right just do not know to be honest.

[Jambof3tornado]

28 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Players will get a mortgage or rent holiday like the rest of us for at least 3 months or more. That must help significantly too. 

Wonder how many players are also landlords?? Bound to be a few invested in property and other businesses that may all be impacted.....shares in restaurants etc.

 

Everyone has there own troubles. Pleased that Ann has said nobody drops below living wage.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

15 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

On the postive the pitch will look fekkin awesome when we get back on it!!

Not if the groundskeeper says no to 50%. 

[HardcoreJambo]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-exodus-set-sparked-uche-21716673

 

Apologies if this was previously posted.

 

Uche and Damour on their way out. Good news as neither are good enough to be at Hearts.

 

I honestly wouldn't be opposed to the entire squad been cleared out. Sell Hickey and start again. Just this time don't involve Levein or his sidekick.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The simple solution is for the GFA to hand out this season's prize money. Distribute it evenly down the league for ONE season, won't impact Celtic ( Sevco is another matter but I am sure they will welcome any cash ) and every other club gets enough cash to stay afloat a bit longer. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

I can't be ersed reading through all the trolling and gnashing of teeth on this thread but saw on Sky news that the employees have refused Ann's request, wonder what happens now.

To be fair, that isn't quite true. Sky are rolling three different slides and that is the second one. The first is the same as yesterday advising of Statement made. If you read them in order, no response has been made, or certainly made public, by staff and players.

 

They are also stating that Bundesliga club Borussia Munchen Gladbach have offered to give up all wages to ensure other staff are kept on and paid. 

 

Meanwhile, Japanese league have stated when they restart, no relegation.

[DETTY29]

42 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

How many of our players realistically have option 2?

Not just ours, but most wont.

 

I can't see there being anything up and running for months.

 

If players are saying I am not taking a cut and most clubs feel they cant see through the next few months, change the ridiculous football creditors rule.

 

 

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think you should read the statement, to avoid redundancies staff have been offered a 50% pay cut, if they don’t take it they will be offered a contract termination. 
https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-1-2-3-4-5-6

And if they don’t take either? 

[FarmerTweedy]

15 hours ago, MrBones said:

There's something like 4 home games left, most of the crowd have season tickets but we can't survive 4 games without cutting wages in half? 

 

Maybe she wants those on expensive levein contracts to.tell her to ram it?

 

50% pay cut for levein though, every cloud

The club has no income at the moment. It doesn't have to 'survive 4 games'. WTF does that even mean, anyway?

 

The club has to survive until it can start generating income again. Nobody has any idea when that will be.

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

If a player's contract is terminated, early by the club do the club then not need to pay the players contract out or at least agree a lump sum pay off?

The players are not at fault hete so no breach of the contract on their part.  

Would the issue for some players not be to sit right and do nothing, especially if they are on long term deals.

I am not saying I am right just do not know to be honest.

 

No

 

You might have seen it's at start of April so the club has given notice. It's a change to contracts. Old contracts don't apply.

 

You accept new terms or you leave. 

[Last Laff]

1 hour ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Yes it is. Can you read??

Yes.  You obviously can’t. 

[DETTY29]

7 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Not if the groundskeeper says no to 50%. 

We will still be paying living wage at £18k pa.

 

Ive no idea how much they are on, but I doubt £36k pa.

 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

16 hours ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

This may well happen to other clubs but it is very concerning we are in this situation so quickly. Maybe she left the finances to Craig. In fact they probably worked them out together. Both as incompetent as each other. 

It's actually very reassuring that the club are moving quickly to take action to help get through this period. 

[graygo]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No

 

You might have seen it's at start of April so the club has given notice. It's a change to contracts. Old contracts don't apply.

 

You accept new terms or you leave. 

 

The club can't just decide to rip up contracts, they either agree with the staff a drop in salary or offer to allow them out of their contract which is what they have done. The other alternative is that Hearts break the player's contracts which is a dangerous road to go down and is why the player's union are keen to have talks with the club 

[Ted Hastings]

11 minutes ago, HardcoreJambo said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-exodus-set-sparked-uche-21716673

 

Apologies if this was previously posted.

 

Uche and Damour on their way out. Good news as neither are good enough to be at Hearts.

 

I honestly wouldn't be opposed to the entire squad been cleared out. Sell Hickey and start again. Just this time don't involve Levein or his sidekick.

 

Damour is a bit of a weird one, looked to have turned a bit of a corner in the last few games, thought he was very good in the derby. Would certainly have been a number of other names i would have picked before Damour in the cull list, and there isn't exactly a shortage of names to choose from after this sh*tshow of a season. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

No

 

You might have seen it's at start of April so the club has given notice. It's a change to contracts. Old contracts don't apply.

 

You accept new terms or you leave. 

Employers who have long term contracts with employees can't just unilaterally make changes to the contracts. Without knowing what the contracts say I don't know if there is exceptional circumstances/force majeure clause. Neither I suspect does anyone else posting on here. The use of the word "offered" suggests to me not be as simple as "take it or you leave without compensation or redress" 

[Hackney Hearts]

11 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

And if they don’t take either? 

 

It's one or the other. It's not complicated.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

There has been £millions put into the club externally over the last few years, if the club are completely struggling to pay wages and bills for a few months towards the end of the football season anyway it’s really concerning.  Isn’t season ticket sales from this season that we are in plus over income such as commercial sponsorship not meant to cover costs for the complete season at least?  The cup run income added to that as a bonus also.  If the club is being ran so brilliantly off the pitch then how has it come to this so soon?  I get that it may be a precautionary approach to things but the whole point in fan ownership that should have been achieved by now was to make sure the club never finds itself in a position of concern in the future and a couple of weeks since the football closure it seems to be happening again. 

Season ticket money runs from year to year and is the base income. Some of it has still to be received and probably won’t be now ie season tickets bought on finance terms, four home games left would generate 500k of revenue which now won’t happen, no further income from non-football activities at Tynecastle, lots of stock left in club shop that won’t sell, and add to that the expected income from a cup semi-final. However, the biggest single issue she is trying to wrestle with is the fact that, at the moment, there’s no way to put season tickets on sale so the expected income from these which typically covers the clubs costs over the summer period isn’t going to happen. That’s why she is trying to reduce the clubs cost structure over that period. Hopefully you understand that now, it really is quite simple and has zero to do with anything that has happened in the past. It’s simply the case that all future income stream have been unexpectedly closed off immediately. 

[jock _turd]

Really after the dust of the announcement has settled and  you have had time to weigh up the options there is no doubt that AB is very much ahead of the curve here! It is totally inconceivable that there are any teams in the SPL, with the possible exception of Celtic, that will be able to keep able to keep paying their players while no money is coming into the clubs from walk ups. I totally refuse to believe that the clubs in the SPL can afford to pay players from season book money only indeed the other week there were teams admitting that the were struggling to survive on what money was coming through the turnstiles. The other thing to be borne in mind is that nobody knows when this hiatus will end... it could last for many months, really without any bullshit how many teams are going to be able to afford to pay players over this period?   

[alwaysthereinspirit]

12 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We will still be paying living wage at £18k pa.

 

Ive no idea how much they are on, but I doubt £36k pa.

 

 

I should have posted the 😜emoji with the original post. 

[Busby8]

20 minutes ago, HardcoreJambo said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-exodus-set-sparked-uche-21716673

 

Apologies if this was previously posted.

 

Uche and Damour on their way out. Good news as neither are good enough to be at Hearts.

 

I honestly wouldn't be opposed to the entire squad been cleared out. Sell Hickey and start again. Just this time don't involve Levein or his sidekick.

Speculation by the record.

 

"Likely" on their way out. ??????