Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[husref musemic]

17 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

players union & players.....................................lemmings off a cliff

i imagine the union/Wishart WhatsApp chat is something like -

 

'stick with me lads and we can get hearts to pay damages and full wages'. followed by lots 👍

[TheOak88]

19 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

I wonder which players are refusing to take a pay cut?  I would imagine Jamie Walker would probably be one. 

 

Based on what?

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, JAMBONI said:

I think clause 12 can be invoked even after a wage cut/deferral.  As you say relegation and remaining debt free may be preferable to struggling in the premiership and cash strapped. Also a good opportunity to get rid of some of the rubbish that got us into the mess. 

 

Clause 12 can be used when football is suspended.

 

It doesn't have any clauses saying otherwise. 

[JAMBONI]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Clause 12 can be used when football is suspended.

 

It doesn't have any clauses saying otherwise. 

Thanks for the information. 👍👍

[TheOak88]

I haven’t really kept up with this Clause 12 stuff. Could anyone tell me what it is? I thought it was the ability to essentially make players redundant.

 

But have seen other suggestions that it is the ability to not pay the player until football returns? But the player would still be contracted to us and would resume their contract as normal once football is back.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

I haven’t really kept up with this Clause 12 stuff. Could anyone tell me what it is? I thought it was the ability to essentially make players redundant.

 

But have seen other suggestions that it is the ability to not pay the player until football returns? But the player would still be contracted to us and would resume their contract as normal once football is back.

 

2nd paragraph 

[martoon]

3 hours ago, Baxfee said:

Hearts is the only club that appears to be in the real world. They are taking a fair and realistic stance on wages (could’ve been more severe if I’m being honest). Deferrals only work if we know that on 1st aug we would return to normal with full stadiums and big smiley faces. That’s not going to happen and most revenue streams will still be missing for most if not all of 2020. This is serious stuff for all clubs but they are continuing to stick their heads in the sand whilst putting the boot into AB. 

 

Good post, bud. 

 

Budge immediately put the club first and safeguarded our future with her swift response. I've been a critic of her running of Hearts but the wage reduction, particularly as we've no real idea when football can return to normal, was a sensible and sound decision. 

 

When Hearts emerge from this pandemic in rude financial health who'll care about the hand wringing, whining of our critics. 

 

Feck the lot and hell mend them. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

7 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Good post, bud. 

 

Budge immediately put the club first and safeguarded our future with her swift response. I've been a critic of her running of Hearts but the wage reduction, particularly as we've no real idea when football can return to normal, was a sensible and sound decision. 

 

When Hearts emerge from this pandemic in rude financial health who'll care about the hand wringing, whining of our critics. 

 

Feck the lot and hell mend them. 

Not sure we'll emerge in "rude financial health" but we could be in a better position than many 

 

Football is going to have a horrendous next 8 months or so you'd imagine 

[martoon]

1 minute ago, East Lothian Jambo said:

Not sure we'll emerge in "rude financial health" but we could be in a better position than many 

 

Football is going to have a horrendous next 8 months or so you'd imagine 

 

Perhaps sound financial health but rude compared to others. 😉

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, TheOak88 said:

I haven’t really kept up with this Clause 12 stuff. Could anyone tell me what it is? I thought it was the ability to essentially make players redundant.

 

But have seen other suggestions that it is the ability to not pay the player until football returns? But the player would still be contracted to us and would resume their contract as normal once football is back.

As Mikey said your 2nd paragraph covers it, a clause that only seems to be in players contracts in Scotland it appears. What I’m not sure is if you have to do it with all the players or can you pick and choose.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

As Mikey said your 2nd paragraph covers it, a clause that only seems to be in players contracts in Scotland it appears. What I’m not sure is if you have to do it with all the players or can you pick and choose.

Don't know for definite but I would imagine it would not be all or nothing.

The available money might be the key factor.

[Pasquale for King]

So let’s do some maths, our average wage is £138k. So around £11.5k a month. Apparently £7061 a month after tax. £3-500 a month on food? Utility bills £2-400? Mortgage (holiday 🤷🏾‍♂️) or rent (most likely)  of £1000-2k at most surely? Car £500-1k. Does that sound about right? 30% wage cut around £2k. That leaves you around £1k a month with not much to spend it on. Surely they can get someone to work out how much they spend and what they need? Are these figures realistic?

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Don't know for definite but I would imagine it would not be all or nothing.

The available money might be the key factor.

You would imagine so.

[OTT]

Got to say, I don't like the idea of Budge remaining open to dialogue with the players who are daft enough to get article 12'd. IMO they've rejected the offer to try and pressurise the club into paying 100% of the wages whilst fans lose wages and are put into dire straights. I don't believe that selfishness and bloody mindedness should be given the time of day after the deadline passes. Take it or leave it deal. 

 

The more I think about how long this lockdown situation could continue - specifically in relation to live sport, the more I wonder about the need for self preservation. Cut the players we don't want loose and keep who we want as long as possible. Its not nice, or altogether very ethical, but neither is demanding all of your thousands of pounds per week whilst regular people lose significant amounts of money and the club has no source of income. 

[JamboAndrew]

I'm wishing wages were performance and final league place based. We would have saved loads this year.

 

But more seriously, it's a results driven business and I don't know why wages aren't more results dependant. Might motivate a few to actually try.

 

I say this having never looked at a footballers contract, but it seems to be majority based on a base salary.

[East Lothian Jambo]

13 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Anyone whose contract expires end of May/June won’t be happy to agree I imagine. 

I think you're probably right

 

There is no easy outcome here. I do suspect those clubs who've publicly declared their intention to defer wages will be very anxious 

 

Ann Budge has acted arguably more decisively than most since the onset of this crisis. Arguably the most decisive 

[Boof]

11 minutes ago, JamboAndrew said:

I'm wishing wages were performance and final league place based. We would have saved loads this year.

 

But more seriously, it's a results driven business and I don't know why wages aren't more results dependant. Might motivate a few to actually try.

 

I say this having never looked at a footballers contract, but it seems to be majority based on a base salary.

 

I think I recall an interview where Ann Budge stated that she preferred this model (higher basic, lower bonuses) as then staff would be more sure what their income would be.

 

I'm with you - a comfortable basic (enough to plan a reasonable lifestyle upon) and significant bonuses.

 

I'm not sure what bonuses are paid but in these days of Opta Statistics surely we could develop a system of bonus payments that doesn't primarily reward goal scoring and clean-sheeting? Whilst agreeing that scoring goals at one end and keeping 'em pout at the other end are the raison d'être of football.

[Jambo-Fox]

Play up Queen Ann ... don’t let these current players cripple the club. The supporters are a constant for Hearts;

 

HHGH, THEN, NOW, and FOREVER!

[JamboAndrew]

1 hour ago, Boof said:

 

I think I recall an interview where Ann Budge stated that she preferred this model (higher basic, lower bonuses) as then staff would be more sure what their income would be.

 

I'm with you - a comfortable basic (enough to plan a reasonable lifestyle upon) and significant bonuses.

 

I'm not sure what bonuses are paid but in these days of Opta Statistics surely we could develop a system of bonus payments that doesn't primarily reward goal scoring and clean-sheeting? Whilst agreeing that scoring goals at one end and keeping 'em pout at the other end are the raison d'être of football.

 

Yes, I think I recall that too.

 

They say money talks in football now. But it seems to be only TV folks, agents and players that are using money to their advantage. Clubs seem medieval in this respect.

 

I mean the talent in our team should not be where it is. So there should be financial penalties for them and the coaching team.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Chelsea not taking a cut, donation to charity. 

 

Now that is all well and good but fails to take into account business costs that may well impact further on the club,  billionaire owners or not.

 

I wonder if billionaire owners will react, or do they need their play thing more, than to worry about the cost of Coronavirus 

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

Play up Queen Ann ... don’t let these current players cripple the club. The supporters are a constant for Hearts;

 

HHGH, THEN, NOW, and FOREVER!

You been on rangers media recently? 

[Kiwidoug]

In hindsight, Levein and MacPhee may have played a blinder here.  While our league position is somewhat disappointing 😂, we must have saved a fortune in bonus payments.

 

Maybe they saw this coming

 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

In hindsight, Levein and MacPhee may have played a blinder here.  While our league position is somewhat disappointing 😂, we must have saved a fortune in bonus payments.

 

Maybe they saw this coming

 

I'm sure both Mercer and Robinson claimed (91-92; 97-98) that the bonuses were ripping the club financial wise.

 

Its getting that medium.

 

And Vlad was upping the bonus £1500 per game on a winning streak for some players.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by DETTY29

[Koolkeith]

If we pay more in wages and less in bonuses, then I don’t see how 10-30% can be that much of a problem. By the time you take the tax off it and divide by 12, how much a month are they going to be missing? Add in the fact folk will probably be spending less due to the closure of bars, restaurants, gyms etc.  They really need to get a perspective.

[Jambo-Fox]

3 hours ago, Last Laff said:

You been on rangers media recently? 

NEVER - flute boy ...

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

NEVER - flute boy ...

Stop copying their slogans then. 👍

 

Flute boy? How the fk does that make sense?  

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

In hindsight, Levein and MacPhee may have played a blinder here.  While our league position is somewhat disappointing 😂, we must have saved a fortune in bonus payments.

 

Maybe they saw this coming

 

Aye, overpaying loads of shite for years and years with even less motivation is a blinder.  Levein and MacPhee are ****ing criminals the way they have internally ****ed the club. 

[Jambo-Fox]

1 minute ago, Last Laff said:

Stop copying their slogans then. 👍

 

Flute boy? How the fk does that make sense?  

I do not have a clue about what you are referring to you do not make sense .... feels like you are just trying  picking a fight with a random stranger - make sense or shut up

[Last Laff]

14 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I do not have a clue about what you are referring to you do not make sense .... feels like you are just trying  picking a fight with a random stranger - make sense or shut up

Your “then, now, forever” is a slogan on hun media.  Pardon if it took it the wrong way. 

[Jambo-Fox]

13 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Your “then, now, forever” is a slogan on hun media.  Pardon if it took it the wrong way. 

No problem! TBH it was plagiarised,  imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!

[Cruyff]

Any player that doesn't accept should just leave. 

 

The guys that stay will be committed to the club. It'll get rid off most of the bad apples. 

[luckydug]

Well the wages will be hitting the bank accounts (or not)in the next few days.

I wonder who will be first to break cover and supplement their income by crying and bitching about how they've been impoverished by that nasty Mrs Budge.

We could have a book on it , any guesses  ? 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

NEVER - flute boy ...

Yep!

[busby1985]

The players have simply failed to realise that they have to play in front of us when this is all done. By next week we will know every single person who hasn’t accepted the cuts as they’ll be article 12’d. How any of them think they can ever play in maroon again I’ll never know. 

[Kiwidoug]

10 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

The players have simply failed to realise that they have to play in front of us when this is all done. By next week we will know every single person who hasn’t accepted the cuts as they’ll be article 12’d. How any of them think they can ever play in maroon again I’ll never know. 

As I've said before, do some of them think they are in a privileged position compared to millions who are making enormous sacrifices.

 

Some people are luckier than others.  They have bern able to stay in employment and retain their earnings.  Our players are not in that category.  Any one of them who refuses to make a sacrifice should never wear our jersey again.

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

No problem! TBH it was plagiarised,  imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!

Genuine apologies mate 👍

[Last Laff]

54 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Yep!

Itch on my back, oh yeah here pops up the irritation 💪

[graygo]

13 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

I haven’t really kept up with this Clause 12 stuff. Could anyone tell me what it is? I thought it was the ability to essentially make players redundant.

 

But have seen other suggestions that it is the ability to not pay the player until football returns? But the player would still be contracted to us and would resume their contract as normal once football is back.

 

13 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

2nd paragraph 

 

Hang on, we can clause 12 them for a period of time and not pay them a bolt and then force them to honour the rest of their contract? What if clausing them means 6 months, a year? They have to just sit on their arse with no income till we decide we want them back?

No chance, that can't be right.

Fair enough if it means they can't sign for anyone else but we can't just recall them.

Edited April 26, 2020 by graygo

[Hood09]

I assume clause 12 is unilateral , I.e it has to be applied to all players even if they have agreed a cut?

 

everyones circumstances are different so hard to comment on players who may just be looking after their families. As a FOH contributer would I want my cash to top up their wages when most haven’t given an arse all year in the league - no chance. 
 

flip side is if there is a remote chance of season resuming i want the players fully motivated. 

[David McCaig]

6 hours ago, graygo said:

 

 

Hang on, we can clause 12 them for a period of time and not pay them a bolt and then force them to honour the rest of their contract? What if clausing them means 6 months, a year? They have to just sit on their arse with no income till we decide we want them back?

No chance, that can't be right.

Fair enough if it means they can't sign for anyone else but we can't just recall them.

I think players have the option to walk away from their contract if clause 12 is applied.

[David McCaig]

37 minutes ago, Hood09 said:

I assume clause 12 is unilateral , I.e it has to be applied to all players even if they have agreed a cut?

 

everyones circumstances are different so hard to comment on players who may just be looking after their families. As a FOH contributer would I want my cash to top up their wages when most haven’t given an arse all year in the league - no chance. 
 

flip side is if there is a remote chance of season resuming i want the players fully motivated. 

Surely every player contract is independent of anyone else's, so each decision would be made individually.

[jock _turd]

I hope that Budge gets every player, that has not accepted a deal, and tells them they are 12'ved and can leave whenever they feel like it. If as has been said by many on here we are going to be demoted/ expelled/ relegated we will not be needing them. The current circumstances make it imperative that the future of the club is protected! Ms Budge did exactly the right thing at the outset but she now must carry through what she said she would do with players who would not accept the club's terms. I can think of no other industry where someone would expect to still be in a job let alone draw a wage when they are idle.

Edited April 26, 2020 by jock _turd

[queensferryjambo]

10 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Flute boy? How the fk does that make sense?  

 

 

Don't shoot the messenger but it does make sense, your board name is Last Laff, presumably a reference to Kyle Lafferty who according to the song he is 'seven foot and plays the flute'.

 

Hence flute boy?

 

Is that possibly the logic? 

 

 

[Rods]

It’s seems to be dawning on the hobos that wage cuts are inevitable.

 

You have to remember they have done it heroically and there way is different from Hearts. 
 

 

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Itch on my back, oh yeah here pops up the irritation 💪

More likely caused by the lack of soap and water.

 

[JamboAl]

52 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

I hope that Budge gets every player, that has not accepted a deal, and tells them they are 12'ved and can leave whenever they feel like it. If as has been said by many on here we are going to be demoted/ expelled/ relegated we will not be needing them. The current circumstances make it imperative that the future of the club is protected! Ms Budge did exactly the right thing at the outset but she now must carry through what she said she would do with players who would not accept the club's terms. I can think of no other industry where someone would expect to still be in a job let alone draw a wage when they are idle.

Re your first sentence I think that option may still be on the table.  She told them already that they can tear up their contract and Dikamona did so, albeit temporarily, it seems.

[Last Laff]

2 hours ago, queensferryjambo said:

 

 

Don't shoot the messenger but it does make sense, your board name is Last Laff, presumably a reference to Kyle Lafferty who according to the song he is 'seven foot and plays the flute'.

 

Hence flute boy?

 

Is that possibly the logic? 

 

 

Yeah I was stupidly trying to think up some random old firm logic for the comment and forget my own username  

[luckydug]

9 hours ago, graygo said:

 

 

Hang on, we can clause 12 them for a period of time and not pay them a bolt and then force them to honour the rest of their contract? What if clausing them means 6 months, a year? They have to just sit on their arse with no income till we decide we want them back?

No chance, that can't be right.

Fair enough if it means they can't sign for anyone else but we can't just recall them.

I honestly don't know but why the **** would we want the ****ing lazy tossers back anyway ? 

 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, David McCaig said:

I think players have the option to walk away from their contract if clause 12 is applied.

 

Thanks, that makes more sense.

[luckydug]

24 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

Yeah I was stupidly trying to think up some random old firm logic for the comment and forget my own username  

How can you forget your username ? 

Unless of course 🤔