Wage cut for players and staff (Statement on 24/4)

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I wonder how many players will end up emptied under Article 12 before the game can restart, not just HMFC.

[Cruyff]

I actually don't give a shit. They are all replaceable. 

 

The guys that stay will be the good guys and will get enormous backing from the support.

Those that refuse and leave will be booed off the park if they ever find themselves at another Scottish club. 

[Cruyff]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I wonder how many players will end up emptied under Article 12 before the game can restart, not just HMFC.

Clubs will be waiting for us to do it first. 

[Le Chat]

I reckon they're probably being very badly advised by the union.

 

Wishart has already been in the press saying Clause 12, in their solicitor's opinion, isn't as clear cut as is being made out so is probably still pushing them to agree to deferrals rather than a cut.

 

It's currently a blinking game which it seems Budge is about to give up on and push the button.  This will end up in court.

 

Fully behind Budgie on this one.

[Phage]

If we're not playing football, then your position is no longer required. I'm afraid we need to make you redundant Malauray.

Anyone here less than two years presumably doesn't get full employment rights so I'd chop them also.

This sort of things happens to all of us real people, its shit, but you move on.

[hmfc_liam06]

Tell you what, if you get paid £3,200 a month and your outgoings are £3,000 then you're doing it all wrong!

[Nookie Bear]

28 minutes ago, Le Chat said:

I reckon they're probably being very badly advised by the union.

 

Wishart has already been in the press saying Clause 12, in their solicitor's opinion, isn't as clear cut as is being made out so is probably still pushing them to agree to deferrals rather than a cut.

 

It's currently a blinking game which it seems Budge is about to give up on and push the button.  This will end up in court.

 

Fully behind Budgie on this one.

The problem with deferrals is that we may not be allowed to buy players until the salaries are paid up to date and nobody has a bigger recruitment job this summer than us. 

[Baxfee]

Hearts is the only club that appears to be in the real world. They are taking a fair and realistic stance on wages (could’ve been more severe if I’m being honest). Deferrals only work if we know that on 1st aug we would return to normal with full stadiums and big smiley faces. That’s not going to happen and most revenue streams will still be missing for most if not all of 2020. This is serious stuff for all clubs but they are continuing to stick their heads in the sand whilst putting the boot into AB. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

32 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Tell you what, if you get paid £3,200 a month and your outgoings are £3,000 then you're doing it all wrong!

 

I suppose it depends what your outgoings are. If it's the usual things like mortgage, utilities, food and other household things plus a significant pension payment and investments then maybe they'd be doing it all right. However with young footballers (especially from the UK) the chances are not high of that being the case. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

Read the statement once. Very happy with the leadership shown. Key words custodians, debt and uncertainty offer an insight to a mindset well aligned with my own.

The extremely well paid players will have to get on with it. Perhaps if our top league status and income was secure we may have been able to do more, longer.

Well done AB. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by pettigrewsstylist

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I suppose it depends what your outgoings are. If it's the usual things like mortgage, utilities, food and other household things plus a significant pension payment and investments then maybe they'd be doing it all right. However with young footballers (especially from the UK) the chances are not high of that being the case. 

 

Of course. But the likelihood I'd imagine some will be getting strangled by a mortgage they can barely afford.

 

And I speak from experience, given a relative bought a house, far greater than required and are about to be absolutely screwed that their husband is facing not working for the foreseeable. 

[johnking123]

45 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Tell you what, if you get paid £3,200 a month and your outgoings are £3,000 then you're doing it all wrong!

Not if your Rangers 

[hmfc_liam06]

1 minute ago, johnking123 said:

Not if your Rangers 

 

[PTBCAL]

5 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I wonder how many players will end up emptied under Article 12 before the game can restart, not just HMFC.

That’s the thing I think they fail to understand- there will be a huge amount of players trying to find clubs when clubs simply cannot afford them - certainly not on the money they will be hoping for.

[David McCaig]

7 minutes ago, PTBCAL said:

That’s the thing I think they fail to understand- there will be a huge amount of players trying to find clubs when clubs simply cannot afford them - certainly not on the money they will be hoping for.

And potentially considerably less professional clubs to sign for.

[David McCaig]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I suppose it depends what your outgoings are. If it's the usual things like mortgage, utilities, food and other household things plus a significant pension payment and investments then maybe they'd be doing it all right. However with young footballers (especially from the UK) the chances are not high of that being the case. 

But they can take a mortgage holiday and the pension/investments are voluntary payments.

 

Players just have to cut their cloth accordingly.

[Seymour M Hersh]

17 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

But they can take a mortgage holiday and the pension/investments are voluntary payments.

 

Players just have to cut their cloth accordingly.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I was only replying to the poster. 

[JamboAl]

47 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I suppose it depends what your outgoings are. If it's the usual things like mortgage, utilities, food and other household things plus a significant pension payment and investments then maybe they'd be doing it all right. However with young footballers (especially from the UK) the chances are not high of that being the case. 

The situation here is that we all have to share the pain and it is ludicrous for players to think they have a right to be insulated when their employer has little or no income.

What you say is correct that it depends on a player's outgoings and many of these can temporarily relieved because of payment holidays - but some may not eg if a player has to pay alimony to his separated/divorced wife and family.  Suspension would be a matter for the courts.  Things like that however could come within the "challenging circumstances" that AB was willing to negotiate on so all in all I think she has been as fair as one can be.

[Hungry hippo]

Anyone know the exact day payday is for the players? Aware it is in around about a week.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The situation here is that we all have to share the pain and it is ludicrous for players to think they have a right to be insulated when their employer has little or no income.

What you say is correct that it depends on a player's outgoings and many of these can temporarily relieved because of payment holidays - but some may not eg if a player has to pay alimony to his separated/divorced wife and family.  Suspension would be a matter for the courts.  Things like that however could come within the "challenging circumstances" that AB was willing to negotiate on so all in all I think she has been as fair as one can be.

 

I agree but as I said before I was only replying to the poster who had said if you get paid £3200 per month and your outgoings are £3000 you are doing it all wrong. 

[David McCaig]

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The situation here is that we all have to share the pain and it is ludicrous for players to think they have a right to be insulated when their employer has little or no income.

What you say is correct that it depends on a player's outgoings and many of these can temporarily relieved because of payment holidays - but some may not eg if a player has to pay alimony to his separated/divorced wife and family.  Suspension would be a matter for the courts.  Things like that however could come within the "challenging circumstances" that AB was willing to negotiate on so all in all I think she has been as fair as one can be.

Football is legally suspended, so its not something players can argue against.

 

And thanks to the players ineptitude on the park, Hearts are facing a double hit in terms of revenue drop.

 

Not only do we face a loss of income at present due to suspension, but we also face a huge drop in income on resumption, due to the club unfairly having to take the financial hit for the whole scottish game.

 

The offer of any wages at all from the club is ridiculously generous in my opinion and the awful truth is that other than Hickey there isn't one player in our squad that I would miss if they exercised their option to leave for free!!

Edited April 25, 2020 by David McCaig

[Jodami]

I think we will end up eventually invoking article 12 at some point. However, that in itself could create a difficult situation when football returns. If the player has not chosen to terminate his contract then I presume it resumes when we start back. Article 12 only suspends payment during the time football is suspended. 

[David McCaig]

Just now, Jodami said:

I think we will end up eventually invoking article 12 at some point. However, that in itself could create a difficult situation when football returns. If the player has not chosen to terminate his contract then I presume it resumes when we start back. Article 12 only suspends payment during the time football is suspended. 

Yes when football resumes they get paid for paying football again.

 

The problem then will be hugely reduced income if playing behind closed doors.

 

However, I'd rather be dealing with a disgruntled player who'd been clause 12'd rather than trying to find cash to top up a deferred wage!!

[jamie1874]

There is going to be very few households in the Uk - possibly Europe and US that do not have some sort of short or long term financial impact due to C19. The economy has pretty much stopped.

 

Footballers should not be immune from this.

 

simply move then to the job retention scheme, claim back the money, decide if we have any money to top up ourself, bearing in mind from a cash flow point of view you claim back after you pay, then for those that do not accept being furloughed offer them redundancy.

 

most will have less than 2 years service, so entitled to nothing. 
 

We are a long way from football in Scotland generating income again , and certainly income like we had pre C19, so longer term we will not come out of this being able pay the same levels, we are right not to keep kicking the can along the road that other clubs seem to be doing. 

[Jodami]

5 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Yes when football resumes they get paid for paying football again.

 

The problem then will be hugely reduced income if playing behind closed doors.

 

However, I'd rather be dealing with a disgruntled player who'd been clause 12'd rather than trying to find cash to top up a deferred wage!!

100% agree, can't see deferral policy being sustained for long at other clubs. 

That's a good point on football resuming behind closed doors, that wouldn't be sustainable for us as a top flight side never mind in the Championship. 

[HoGwash]

23 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I agree but as I said before I was only replying to the poster who had said if you get paid £3200 per month and your outgoings are £3000 you are doing it all wrong. 

According to a poster on here you should always have at least 12 months worth of cash reserves 😀

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, HoGwash said:

According to a poster on here you should always have at least 12 months worth of cash reserves 😀

 

[Vlad Magic]

There will be no football played in the UK this year other than behind closed doors and even behind closed doors is unbelievably unlikely.

 

At the very best football might be being played May/June time next year but more likely August 2021.

 

This is just the beginning of the pandemic. It has a LONG way to run. 
 

We are taking the correct steps to ensure survival. Other clubs aren’t. 
 

When the dust settles we will see who is here and who isn’t. I am comfortable in saying we will.

[husref musemic]

2 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Tell you what, if you get paid £3,200 a month and your outgoings are £3,000 then you're doing it all wrong!

BTW none of our super stars will be receiving 3 grand this month.

more like £10,000 - £18,000 the per wee souls.

 

How will they manage !

[Georgieboy]

11 minutes ago, jamie1874 said:

There is going to be very few households in the Uk - possibly Europe and US that do not have some sort of short or long term financial impact due to C19. The economy has pretty much stopped.

 

Footballers should not be immune from this.

 

simply move then to the job retention scheme, claim back the money, decide if we have any money to top up ourself, bearing in mind from a cash flow point of view you claim back after you pay, then for those that do not accept being furloughed offer them redundancy.

 

most will have less than 2 years service, so entitled to nothing. 
 

We are a long way from football in Scotland generating income again , and certainly income like we had pre C19, so longer term we will not come out of this being able pay the same levels, we are right not to keep kicking the can along the road that other clubs seem to be doing. 

just reading in out of interest but do football players because they have contracts lasting 2 or 3 years not differ from a normal job. Therefore you need to pay up the length of contract it matters not that the player has been their less than 2 years

[hmfc_liam06]

7 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

BTW none of our super stars will be receiving 3 grand this month.

more like £10,000 - £18,000 the per wee souls.

 

How will they manage !

 

Exactly! 

 

Lets face it, all we all need right now is enough money to pay bills and stay fed and watered. Everyone is facing this, not just pampered footballers.

[JAMBONI]

26 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

There will be no football played in the UK this year other than behind closed doors and even behind closed doors is unbelievably unlikely.

 

At the very best football might be being played May/June time next year but more likely August 2021.

 

This is just the beginning of the pandemic. It has a LONG way to run. 
 

We are taking the correct steps to ensure survival. Other clubs aren’t. 
 

When the dust settles we will see who is here and who isn’t. I am comfortable in saying we will.

Totally agree.  If we do get relegated  then when all this is over they may be asking us back to make up the numbers in the premiership as several clubs may not survive. 

[Jammy T]

Let’s not forgot our payment model of it being a higher basic wage and lower bonus set up.

 

This means all of our players are way better off than a lot of other clubs players would have been if they had only won 4 games this season.

 

Like everybody i can’t understand why the majority of these players are showing such a disgusting disregard for the situation we are in.

 

The Macrae’s Battaliion lads will be turning in their graves

[husref musemic]

3 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

Let’s not forgot our payment model of it being a higher basic wage and lower bonus set up.

 

This means all of our players are way better off than a lot of other clubs players would have been if they had only won 4 games this season.

 

Like everybody i can’t understand why the majority of these players are showing such a disgusting disregard for the situation we are in.

 

The Macrae’s Battaliion lads will be turning in their graves

i listened to that open goal podcast with Gary o'conner talking about the 5-1 final & the players joking & laughing afterwards in the dressing room. They couldn't care less. they'd been humiliated and they couldn't care less. I found it funny. 

 

Untill now.

[David McCaig]

18 minutes ago, JAMBONI said:

Totally agree.  If we do get relegated  then when all this is over they may be asking us back to make up the numbers in the premiership as several clubs may not survive. 

In a bizarre way, clause 12ing the current squad and romping the Championship at a fraction of our current playing budget may actually be a blessing in disguise.

 

Aberdeen and Hibs may have their SPL status, but they are in a whole world of trouble with their policy of wage deferrals.

 

On a side note does the agreement of a wage deferral or wage cut negate the clubs ability to invoke clause 12 at a later date?

[NaturalOrder74]

We’ll find out soon enough what players were worth keeping, if we do manage to empty a large group of them, we couldn’t be in a worse position on the pitch anyway so can only get better 

[Ex member of the SaS]

With regards players outgoings, They may well have a mortgage and other payments to make, but they should be saving a fortune in not going to Nando's.

Any player refusing to take the hit should be named and shamed ( with the exception of hardship ) then dumped asap using any and every rule available.

[Mikey1874]

Belarus transfer window might be open soon. 

[maroonsgotop]

players union & players.....................................lemmings off a cliff

[Lone Striker]

The rumblings that EPL football could be starting in England in the summer - behind closed doors - has little or no relevance to us in Scotland. Sky & BT will get loads of new subscribers from fans who normally go to games.   Presumably the clubs may well negotiate getting a cut of that ?   

 

Not sure if it was on  this thread...... but for those saying that Stendel was a flawed appointment (based on 3 months in the job), it's worth putting that into perspective. The guy before him turned out to be a flawed appointment (he lasted  2 years) .... and the guy before him was also a flawed appointment (he lasted 6 months).    Just sayin'.  

[Randy Marsh]

I wonder which players are refusing to take a pay cut?  I would imagine Jamie Walker would probably be one. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Football is legally suspended, so its not something players can argue against.

 

And thanks to the players ineptitude on the park, Hearts are facing a double hit in terms of revenue drop.

 

Not only do we face a loss of income at present due to suspension, but we also face a huge drop in income on resumption, due to the club unfairly having to take the financial hit for the whole scottish game.

 

The offer of any wages at all from the club is ridiculously generous in my opinion and the awful truth is that other than Hickey there isn't one player in our squad that I would miss if they exercised their option to leave for free!!

Yes that's an annoying factor but incidental to the issue.  There will be incompetents in every walk of life who will be on full wages, or effectively so with furloughing, so it's maybe a bit unfair to single out our team.

[JamboAl]

Just now, Randy Marsh said:

I wonder which players are refusing to take a pay cut?  I would imagine Jamie Walker would probably be one. 

Do you not like JW or do you have grounds for believing this?

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Yes that's an annoying factor but incidental to the issue.  There will be incompetents in every walk of life who will be on full wages, or effectively so with furloughing, so it's maybe a bit unfair to single out our team.

It’s entirely relevant as when football returns, our club will be on Championship money... which makes deferral of Premiership wages an impossibility.

[JamboAl]

Just now, David McCaig said:

It’s entirely relevant as when football returns, our club will be on Championship money... which makes deferral of Premiership wages an impossibility.

That would take care of itself whether or not we had this Covid situation.

[husref musemic]

4 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

I wonder which players are refusing to take a pay cut?  I would imagine Jamie Walker would probably be one. 

id love to know. 

 

it's funny how they've suddenly discovered a bit of fight and determination now....

[Randy Marsh]

2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Do you not like JW or do you have grounds for believing this?

I don't like him. He shouldn't even be employed by Heart of Midlothian.  Its just a hunch.  He has a terrible attitude and doesn't come across as the sharpest.  If I was a betting man I would place a wager on him. 

[Randy Marsh]

For the record I am a betting man but can't find any markets for this bet. 

[JAMBONI]

58 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

In a bizarre way, clause 12ing the current squad and romping the Championship at a fraction of our current playing budget may actually be a blessing in disguise.

 

Aberdeen and Hibs may have their SPL status, but they are in a whole world of trouble with their policy of wage deferrals.

 

On a side note does the agreement of a wage deferral or wage cut negate the clubs ability to invoke clause 12 at a later date?

I think clause 12 can be invoked even after a wage cut/deferral.  As you say relegation and remaining debt free may be preferable to struggling in the premiership and cash strapped. Also a good opportunity to get rid of some of the rubbish that got us into the mess. 

[East Lothian Jambo]

1 minute ago, Randy Marsh said:

For the record I am a betting man but can't find any markets for this bet. 

😂