The rise and fall of The SNP.

[jack D and coke]

51 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It's easy just to say "let's just run a deficit". Borrowing costs, for a start , would be far higher in a new state with no credit history. But first and foremost, it's the size of the deficit that matters. Scotland's notional deficit is several times higher than rUK and that would be the starting point . 

An independent Scotland would involve massive expenditure cuts and or tax rises and people need to be aware of that. How that will sit with a nation that has a huge welfare bill and has basically created a dependency culture among large swathes of the population,  is anyone's guess. Much like Brexit, and we hear the same arguments as with independence; "control our money", "make our own laws" etc, becoming an independent,  sovereign nation will come at a cost and will have have huge trading implications. 

Doesnt Britain or what would be left of the rUK if we left want free trade deals with their friends and partners? In that case I’d imagine they’ll offer one to us straight away won’t they? I mean it’s just the EU that are making things difficult? 
Where are the big dependants too? Ones that have been created by the SNP? More so than anywhere else on these islands? I don’t see much difference anywhere I’ve ever been in the U.K. tbh. What extra things can be claimed here that say I couldn’t get down south for example that make me more state dependant? 
Seems some pretty lazy assumptions here tbh no? 

[Unknown user]

59 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It's easy just to say "let's just run a deficit". Borrowing costs, for a start , would be far higher in a new state with no credit history. But first and foremost, it's the size of the deficit that matters. Scotland's notional deficit is several times higher than rUK and that would be the starting point . 

An independent Scotland would involve massive expenditure cuts and or tax rises and people need to be aware of that. How that will sit with a nation that has a huge welfare bill and has basically created a dependency culture among large swathes of the population,  is anyone's guess. Much like Brexit, and we hear the same arguments as with independence; "control our money", "make our own laws" etc, becoming an independent,  sovereign nation will come at a cost and will have have huge trading implications. 

IF you accept the figures Westminster generates are a full and honest representation of the situation (hohoho) you'd have a point there.

 

As for borrowing costs, Standard & Poors, who of course decide these things, have said Scotland would actually have a better credit rating than the UK, so where's that coming from? We've missed large payments this year too, 

 

I'll ignore the self loathing bollocks about the dependency culture Scots except to say if that sweeping statement were true, wouldn't that be something to lay at the door of Westminster?

 

And of course, you make the most negative assumptions, expenditure cuts, tax rises. It's just mud. There'll be massive income increases as we take control of out resources and tax income. 

 

I would expect you to find every angle you can think of, but "oh it'll be awful" doesn't work any more, not when we can see Cluster**** city at Westminster with our own eyes.

 

It'll be ****ing great and we'll have goodwill from across the globe as we take our rightful place at the table of independent nations.

[Justin Z]

12 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 I don't know what drugs you're on and I don't want any but you must be close to overdosing. 

 

Happy to put a wager on with you Seymour, if you're so confident the SNP aren't going to bring back the most seats in the Scottish Parliament election that you'd laugh and say someone who thinks the SNP will get a record number of seats is on drugs.

 

Let us all know if you want to put your money where your mouth is.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

IF you accept the figures Westminster generates are a full and honest representation of the situation (hohoho) you'd have a point there.

 

As for borrowing costs, Standard & Poors, who of course decide these things, have said Scotland would actually have a better credit rating than the UK, so where's that coming from? We've missed large payments this year too, 

 

I'll ignore the self loathing bollocks about the dependency culture Scots except to say if that sweeping statement were true, wouldn't that be something to lay at the door of Westminster?

 

And of course, you make the most negative assumptions, expenditure cuts, tax rises. It's just mud. There'll be massive income increases as we take control of out resources and tax income. 

 

I would expect you to find every angle you can think of, but "oh it'll be awful" doesn't work any more, not when we can see Cluster**** city at Westminster with our own eyes.

 

It'll be ****ing great and we'll have goodwill from across the globe as we take our rightful place at the table of independent nations.

The GERS figures are ptoduced by the Scottish govt and illustrate quite clearly how we rely on the billions we get annually from the UK govt. There isn't an economic argument to be had about separation tbh, so I'm not even going to respond to the "land of milk and honey" picture of this happy, sunny, new nation that you paint. I would though be interested to hear about all those resources and income tax that will be flowing our way, to replace the £8bn additional UK funding.  As for cluster **** you need only stroll down to the bottom of the Canongate to see the biggest one of all. Bash on though, I admire your "hope over fear" delusions and your unrelenting belief that "it'll be alright on the night".

[luckydug]

14 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Do you think Salmond will make a political come back? 

As an SNP voter I will become an Ex SNP voter if he does. 

I normally give the Greens my second vote in Scottish elections. 

If that treacherous snake gets into any position in the SG the Greens or 

Scottish Socialists will get my vote. 

Alex Salmond represents the Alex Salmond party. 

I can't even post what I actually think of him or I'd get banned. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, luckydug said:

As an SNP voter I will become an Ex SNP voter if he does. 

I normally give the Greens my second vote in Scottish elections. 

If that treacherous snake gets into any position in the SG the Greens or 

Scottish Socialists will get my vote. 

Alex Salmond represents the Alex Salmond party. 

I can't even post what I actually think of him or I'd get banned. 

He's been very quiet of late.  I can't help but think that he is biding his time for maximum effect.

 

He'd happily try to scuttle the SNP/independence movement if it benefitted him personally

[Pans Jambo]

12 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Once the Murrells are gone, it will take a time to recover. Independence doesn't make any sense financially  None. Out of the UK, out of the EU, out of NATO. No currency, no freedom of movement or currency. If the UK said beat it, we'd be ****ed. The SG's own annually published numbers show that every year we are reliant on the Treasury to sort us out.

 

When the Murrell's PR machine is broken, it's curtains.

 

On top of that the UK should start to robustly protect it's sovereignty. By force if necessary. 

Eh? Come again...

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The GERS figures are ptoduced by the Scottish govt and illustrate quite clearly how we rely on the billions we get annually from the UK govt. There isn't an economic argument to be had about separation tbh, so I'm not even going to respond to the "land of milk and honey" picture of this happy, sunny, new nation that you paint. I would though be interested to hear about all those resources and income tax that will be flowing our way, to replace the £8bn additional UK funding.  As for cluster **** you need only stroll down to the bottom of the Canongate to see the biggest one of all. Bash on though, I admire your "hope over fear" delusions and your unrelenting belief that "it'll be alright on the night".

GERS?

 

Oh please!

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The GERS figures are ptoduced by the Scottish govt and illustrate quite clearly how we rely on the billions we get annually from the UK govt. There isn't an economic argument to be had about separation tbh, so I'm not even going to respond to the "land of milk and honey" picture of this happy, sunny, new nation that you paint. I would though be interested to hear about all those resources and income tax that will be flowing our way, to replace the £8bn additional UK funding.  As for cluster **** you need only stroll down to the bottom of the Canongate to see the biggest one of all. Bash on though, I admire your "hope over fear" delusions and your unrelenting belief that "it'll be alright on the night".

 

Ah yes, Scottish tax revenues are famously £65.9 billion for FY 2019-20:

 

 

Yet Scotland has only gotten £38.9 billion back in the block grant, before tax deductions and a welfare credit:

 

 

and that somehow equals "£8 billion in additional UK funding". No, the additional £8 billion is in fact spending consequentials due to the impact of Covid. It's a far cry from the £27 billion gap between Scottish tax revenues and the unadjusted block grant amount, or £36 billion when adjusted.

 

Do go on admiring those folk who would quite sensibly conclude it'll "be alright on the night" indeed.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah yes, Scottish tax revenues are famously £65.9 billion for FY 2019-20:

 

 

Yet Scotland has only gotten £38.9 billion back in the block grant, before tax deductions and a welfare credit:

 

 

and that somehow equals "£8 billion in additional UK funding". No, the additional £8 billion is in fact spending consequentials due to the impact of Covid. It's a far cry from the £27 billion gap between Scottish tax revenues and the unadjusted block grant amount, or £36 billion when adjusted.

 

Do go on admiring those folk who would quite sensibly conclude it'll "be alright on the night" indeed.

Scotland raises £66bn of revenue but receives £81bn in public spending from the UK govt. An additional £15bn on top of what we contribute. But I suspect that you know that. The block grant of £38bn is part of that.  Posting misleading figures doesn't do your cause any good as most people know the true financial position. 

[manaliveits105]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Scotland raises £66bn of revenue but receives £81bn in public spending from the UK govt. An additional £15bn on top of what we contribute. But I suspect that you know that. The block grant of £38bn is part of that.  Posting misleading figures doesn't do your cause any good as most people know the true financial position. 

🤣    (am I doing this right)

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Scotland raises £66bn of revenue but receives £81bn in public spending from the UK govt. An additional £15bn on top of what we contribute. But I suspect that you know that. The block grant of £38bn is part of that.  Posting misleading figures doesn't do your cause any good as most people know the true financial position. 

No. It doesn't. The UK spends it on whatever shite they want including debt payments "on our behalf" and then tells dafties up here who suck it in that they "subsidise" us...but you knew that right?

[Enzo Chiefo]

28 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

No. It doesn't. The UK spends it on whatever shite they want including debt payments "on our behalf" and then tells dafties up here who suck it in that they "subsidise" us...but you knew that right?

Scotland benefits from being able to spend money, on a whole lot of "shite" like free prescriptions for all, welfare lifestyles Gaelic promotion, defending indefensible legal actions, fighting FOI requests, buying loss making airports etc, grandstanding abroad as if it were already independent.  They don't however have the responsibility of funding all the spending or worrying about repaying debt or the interest, at present.  Being against austerity - the reality is that all govts have a duty to be austere  - while simultaneously whining about debt interest  is simply not credible. Mind you neither is wanting to leave the UK while actively looking to rejoin the ailing, failing EU.

[Enzo Chiefo]

40 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

🤣    (am I doing this right)

Yes, spot on. As approved by SNP central office i.e Casa Murrell😂

[Pans Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Scotland benefits from being able to spend money, on a whole lot of "shite" like free prescriptions for all, welfare lifestyles Gaelic promotion, defending indefensible legal actions, fighting FOI requests, buying loss making airports etc, grandstanding abroad as if it were already independent.  They don't however have the responsibility of funding all the spending or worrying about repaying debt or the interest, at present.  Being against austerity - the reality is that all govts have a duty to be austere  - while simultaneously whining about debt interest  is simply not credible. Mind you neither is wanting to leave the UK while actively looking to rejoin the ailing, failing EU.

Aye very good mate. Scotland doesn't "benefit" from being able to "spend freely"! It just makes different choices and to be fair, by law, it MUST balance its budget.

Scotland doesn't need to spend Billions on Aircraft carriers that leak, HS2, dodgy PPE contracts, phantom ferries, London Crossrail and it's Billions on overspend and delays or foreign wars and then pay interest on shit we didn't buy.

If you think social care and mitigating tory policies are "shite" then we are opposite ends of the debate.

Crack on. Stick yer big "X" in he tory box next year and enjoy the £500 million a week extra that Boris will be pumping into the "shite" NHS whilst simultaneously imposing Austerity 2.0 for another 12 years. 

 

Scotland wont be part of it very much longer....You want a lift to Berwick?

Edited December 11, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aye very good mate. Scotland doesn't need to spend Billions on Aircraft carriers that leak, HS2, dodgy PPE contracts, phantom ferries, London Crossrail and it's Billions on overspend and delays or foreign wars and then pay interest on shit we didn't buy.

If you think social care and mitigating tory policies are "shite" then we are opposite ends of the debate.

Crack on. Stick yer big "X" in he tory box next year and enjoy the £500 million a week extra that Boris will be pumping into the "shite" NHS whilst simultaneously imposing Austerity 2.0 for another 12 years. 

 

Scotland wont be part of it very much longer....You want a lift to Berwick?

We are quite obviously at different ends of the debate of you believe all the above. I moved out of a Scottish bank to a UK registered one before the last hate-fest. It won't happen but I wouldn't have anything to do with a separate Scotland. Like thousands of others, I would be heading for the border.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We are quite obviously at different ends of the debate of you believe all the above. I moved out of a Scottish bank to a UK registered one before the last hate-fest. It won't happen but I wouldn't have anything to do with a separate Scotland. Like thousands of others, I would be heading for the border.

I know a man with a van....

[luckydug]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We are quite obviously at different ends of the debate of you believe all the above. I moved out of a Scottish bank to a UK registered one before the last hate-fest. It won't happen but I wouldn't have anything to do with a separate Scotland. Like thousands of others, I would be heading for the border.

If you think Scotland's so bad why are you here ? 

You don't like Scotland. 

You don't like Hearts. 

A life full of complaining. 

What a life 😕

[EC_Hearts]

Whilst I admit I'm none too fond of the UK Goverment, nothing coming out of Holyrood is inspiring at the moment either.

"We" apparently can point at a navy carrier leaking but conveniently ignore that majority of the sections were built in Scottish yards with the final assembly being carried out at Rosyth.

"We" have our own ferry disaster currently residing in Fergusons shipyard.

Prestwick & Bi-Fab decisions not looking clever at the moment either.

Whilst I think Brexit is a monumental error, to follow it up with an Indepence bid just seems like folly given the likely state of the economy in the near future.

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Scotland raises £66bn of revenue but receives £81bn in public spending from the UK govt. An additional £15bn on top of what we contribute. But I suspect that you know that. The block grant of £38bn is part of that.  Posting misleading figures doesn't do your cause any good as most people know the true financial position. 

How does that compare to England Enzo?  What I mean is how much does England borrow to fund spending in comparison to Scotland? Not sure if it’s entirely the right question to ask but you get my drift. 

[coconut doug]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We are quite obviously at different ends of the debate of you believe all the above. I moved out of a Scottish bank to a UK registered one before the last hate-fest. It won't happen but I wouldn't have anything to do with a separate Scotland. Like thousands of others, I would be heading for the border.

 

Are you telling us you moved out of a bank because it was Scottish?

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Are you telling us you moved out of a bank because it was Scottish?

Absolutely.  A UK registered bank was a safer bet at the time imo. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Are you telling us you moved out of a bank because it was Scottish?

Id like to know exactly what bank is Scottish too. A plaque on a wall in Edinburgh does not make it scottish. They are British banks. 
They’d remain British banks in the event of indy. They’d likely have a Scottish arm or perhaps not but they’ll have billions of pounds out in loans, mortgages etc. Are people suggesting they’re going to just walk away or something? They’ll write it off? Or make it impossible to repay? 
Pragmatism will take over in these things. If it happens then it’ll get sorted out. 
I still can’t believe people go on like we’d vote Yes on the Monday and be independent by the Thursday or something with no currency etc and every business would just **** off over the border before then. 
It would take time and agreements etc sorted out. 

[hmfcbilly]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Id like to know exactly what bank is Scottish too. A plaque on a wall in Edinburgh does not make it scottish. They are British banks. 
They’d remain British banks in the event of indy. They’d likely have a Scottish arm or perhaps not but they’ll have billions of pounds out in loans, mortgages etc. Are people suggesting they’re going to just walk away or something? They’ll write it off? Or make it impossible to repay? 
Pragmatism will take over in these things. If it happens then it’ll get sorted out. 
I still can’t believe people go on like we’d vote Yes on the Monday and be independent by the Thursday or something with no currency etc and every business would just **** off over the border before then. 
It would take time and agreements etc sorted out. 

If it does happen J D, let's all hope the agreements and talks go a lot better than the UK/EU ones! I have my doubts they would be any more successful mate 

[hmfcbilly]

4 hours ago, EC_Hearts said:

Whilst I admit I'm none too fond of the UK Goverment, nothing coming out of Holyrood is inspiring at the moment either.

"We" apparently can point at a navy carrier leaking but conveniently ignore that majority of the sections were built in Scottish yards with the final assembly being carried out at Rosyth.

"We" have our own ferry disaster currently residing in Fergusons shipyard.

Prestwick & Bi-Fab decisions not looking clever at the moment either.

Whilst I think Brexit is a monumental error, to follow it up with an Indepence bid just seems like folly given the likely state of the economy in the near future.

 Great post, well put EC 👍

[jack D and coke]

55 minutes ago, hmfcbilly said:

If it does happen J D, let's all hope the agreements and talks go a lot better than the UK/EU ones! I have my doubts they would be any more successful mate 

It’s all a bit strange tbh these EU talks. It’s very difficult to get a real idea who is more keen for a deal in these things with certain parts of the media being such arseholes one way or the other but yeah 100% agreed. If it does happen then you want some calm heads and pragmatic people sorting it out. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, GinRummy said:

How does that compare to England Enzo?  What I mean is how much does England borrow to fund spending in comparison to Scotland? Not sure if it’s entirely the right question to ask but you get my drift. 

Yes, good question GR. I don't know the exact rates but the UK has a credit history and a deficit to GDP ratio which is a fraction of Scotland's. We don't even know the currency we would be using.

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Absolutely.  A UK registered bank was a safer bet at the time imo. 

What are you talking about? UK registered? Do you mean England is the UK? No wonder Scots want independence and I mean Scots.

[Space Mackerel]

Some home truths for the Scotch Edinburg  Boris lovers on here. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Some home truths for the Scotch Edinburg  Boris lovers on here. 

A timely reminder that having a divisive Nationalistn in charge in not a good thing

[Justin Z]

7 minutes ago, Candy said:

A timely reminder that having a divisive Nationalistn in charge in not a good thing

 

True. Good thing the endless refrain from the vast majority of Indy supporters, whether politicians or not, putting aside the occasional "traitor"-slinging nuts, has been "if you want to be Scottish, you can be," about the least divisive thing you can think of.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

True. Good thing the endless refrain from the vast majority of Indy supporters, whether politicians or not, putting aside the occasional "traitor"-slinging nuts, has been "if you want to be Scottish, you can be," about the least divisive thing you can think of.

 

I don't need any instructions or advice on how to be Scottish.

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, Candy said:

I don't need any instructions or advice on how to be Scottish.

 

[JyTees]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

A timely reminder that having a divisive Nationalistn in charge in not a good thing

 

Touche 👏🏻

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

A timely reminder that having a divisive Nationalistn in charge in not a good thing

 

17 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Touche 👏🏻

Funnily enough, you’ll still be Scottish and British after Independence. Same as me. 
 

You’ll just have a government the Scottish people want and voted for. 

[Unknown user]

On 11/12/2020 at 20:30, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, good question GR. I don't know the exact rates but the UK has a credit history and a deficit to GDP ratio which is a fraction of Scotland's. We don't even know the currency we would be using.

Standard & Poors have stated that Scotland would start with a AAA credit rating.

The UK doesn't have that any more, precisely because of the credit history you mention.

 

Unionists throw about hurdles like they're impenetrable walls. It'll be a rare country that has a currency ready to go before they've even agreed to become independent. Let's not pretend its a stopper in the game, we know there's a to do list but it's hardly filled with Herculean tasks.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Standard & Poors have stated that Scotland would start with a AAA credit rating.

The UK doesn't have that any more, precisely because of the credit history you mention.

 

Unionists throw about hurdles like they're impenetrable walls. It'll be a rare country that has a currency ready to go before they've even agreed to become independent. Let's not pretend its a stopper in the game, we know there's a to do list but it's hardly filled with Herculean tasks.

Currency could  very well be a stopper. The independence cause would be much clearer if there was a clear answer to this question, but there is not.

 

The plan is basically  - vote for indy and we'll  sort it out when we get there.

 

You may wish to downplay the importance of this, but even deep down you must acknowledge its an issue that hinders and does not help independence 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Candy said:

Currency could  very well be a stopper. The independence cause would be much clearer if there was a clear answer to this question, but there is not.

 

The plan is basically  - vote for indy and we'll  sort it out when we get there.

 

You may wish to downplay the importance of this, but even deep down you must acknowledge its an issue that hinders and does not help independence 

It's an issue to those who want to find things to go "See? A problem!"

 

After we vote for independence there will be a period, likely a couple of years, to go work out details and make plans.

I favour using the GBP in the short term while smarter people than you or I look into the options and present them to the Scottish electorate, but others have different ideas. I'd like us to decide after a mature and informed conversation on the subject.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It's an issue to those who want to find things to go "See? A problem!"

 

After we vote for independence there will be a period, likely a couple of years, to go work out details and make plans.

I favour using the GBP in the short term while smarter people than you or I look into the options and present them to the Scottish electorate, but others have different ideas. I'd like us to decide after a mature and informed conversation on the subject.

So  yes, it is a problem to some and we'll try and sort it out when we get there.

 

Its not me or you that needs convinced. Its the folk in the middle who are unsure and might be swayed by the currency issue.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Worst drugs death rate 2019 in Europe another day job overlooked whilst the SG concentrate their efforts on indyref2 

Get the Murrell liars oot Scotland 

 

[Pans Jambo]

8 hours ago, Candy said:

Currency could  very well be a stopper. The independence cause would be much clearer if there was a clear answer to this question, but there is not.

 

The plan is basically  - vote for indy and we'll  sort it out when we get there.

 

You may wish to downplay the importance of this, but even deep down you must acknowledge its an issue that hinders and does not help independence 

No, that's not true. there IS a clear plan but the Unionists just don't want to listen or acknowledge it.

 

We use Sterling during a transitional period after a YES vote and then we move to a Scottish currency. 

 

Why is it still an issue or a "stopper"?

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

No, that's not true. there IS a clear plan but the Unionists just don't want to listen or acknowledge it.

 

We use Sterling during a transitional period after a YES vote and then we move to a Scottish currency. 

 

Why is it still an issue or a "stopper"?

Because it will likely stop people voting for independence.

 

I don't follow it closely enough to know that n the event of Scexit the SNP have declared that we'll use sterling then pop over to a Scottish currency. When did they confirm this? What will our currency be?

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Candy said:

Because it will likely stop people voting for independence.

 

I don't follow it closely enough to know that n the event of Scexit the SNP have declared that we'll use sterling then pop over to a Scottish currency. When did they confirm this? What will our currency be?

Scots pound.

 

What does it really matter what it's called. Scotland is a first world wealthy country with vast resources and a modern infrastructure with an educated populace. All the ingredients are there.

 

Makes you wonder how other small countries round the planet survive. What does New Zealand use for currency? Sheep?

 

The Indy ref 2 hasn't actually been officially called as yet but when it does, I am sure (unlike Brexit), folk will know EXACTLY what they they will be looking at.

[Space Mackerel]

13 minutes ago, Candy said:

Because it will likely stop people voting for independence.

 

I don't follow it closely enough to know that n the event of Scexit the SNP have declared that we'll use sterling then pop over to a Scottish currency. When did they confirm this? What will our currency be?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/snp-votes-for-scotland-having-its-own-currency-if-it-leaves-the-uk

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Scots pound.

 

What does it really matter what it's called. Scotland is a first world wealthy country with vast resources and a modern infrastructure with an educated populace. All the ingredients are there.

 

Makes you wonder how other small countries round the planet survive. What does New Zealand use for currency? Sheep?

 

The Indy ref 2 hasn't actually been officially called as yet but when it does, I am sure (unlike Brexit), folk will know EXACTLY what they they will be looking at.

To be fair that would constitute a plan if thats what was to happen  - have the SNP ever come out and said this?  have the EU said we can join  but not take on the euro?

I don't know enough about NZ.  Have they ever left a union over 300 years old? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/snp-votes-for-scotland-having-its-own-currency-if-it-leaves-the-uk

 

👍

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Candy said:

To be fair that would constitute a plan if thats what was to happen  - have the SNP ever come out and said this?  have the EU said we can join  but not take on the euro?

I don't know enough about NZ.  Have they ever left a union over 300 years old? 

Yes, Yes and:

https://teara.govt.nz/en/self-government-and-independence#:~:text=In 1948 New Zealanders became,passed the Constitution Act 1986.

[Space Mackerel]

25 minutes ago, Candy said:

To be fair that would constitute a plan if thats what was to happen  - have the SNP ever come out and said this?  have the EU said we can join  but not take on the euro?

I don't know enough about NZ.  Have they ever left a union over 300 years old? 

New Zealand dumped the pound and created it’s own dollar in 1967. 

[theshed]

4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Worst drugs death rate 2019 in Europe another day job overlooked whilst the SG concentrate their efforts on indyref2 

Get the Murrell liars oot Scotland 

 

 

Just reading about that 5 mins ago so on our group chat I text my SNP loving mate and not surprised when I got a reply blaming Westminster as they control things and even blaming Thatcher 😳

[Unknown user]

10 hours ago, Candy said:

So  yes, it is a problem to some and we'll try and sort it out when we get there.

 

Its not me or you that needs convinced. Its the folk in the middle who are unsure and might be swayed by the currency issue.

I wouldn't waste my energy trying to convince you, I couldn't care less if you walk away thinking it's bullshit. I could prove that we'd all be millionaires on Day 1 and you'd be "yeah, but..."

 

Unionists act like it's all some impossible dream, but in reality it's you who needs to convince those in the middle that theres something so inherently wrong with Scotland that we just doesn't have what it takes to be an independent nation.

 

We're the ones who're winning the debate, you're the ones with work to do.