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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

We need more hate filled xenophobes imo.

 

But only so long as they're thankful for being let off easy!

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1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

As much as I want independence, I still don't think there's enough support for it. I'm only using my personal experience with family and friends. Some have moved to the independence camp and have been impressed with Nicola Sturgeon especially my wife and her friends but still get the feeling it's too loose.

 

 

According to Panelbase. Yes 56% No 44%

 

 

With undecided taken out. Yes 51% No 42% 

Edited by ri Alban
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15 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Latest yougov poll showing support for independence down 4 % to 51 % (6-10th Nov) - they’ve only gone and hibsed it big time 

Down from 53% down 2% with no up 47% to 49% a swing of 4% from 6% to 2%.

You didn't tell us the SNP was up to 57% at Holyrood. An absolute pumping with a referendum in the manifesto. 

Now tell me how Boris says no, when he won't even be PM. And let's see how the new PM (If you looked up Hoose jock in the dictionary, his face would appear) is gonnae tell Scotland how they can't take back power etc... etc... You know, the way he says about Brexit. 

 

 

Oh, just think about it, Michael Gove, the smarmiest wee rat faced Britnat fae Scotland, the prime minister of England, post Scottish independence. I wonder how that will go down, down south. 🤔

Edited by ri Alban
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Governor Tarkin
53 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Good.

 

Well that's me convinced.

 

51 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Why?

Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader.

 

I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 

 

42 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

 

We need less definitive answers imo 

 

:sadrobbo:

 

Not bad, Konrad. Not bad.

 

35 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

But only so long as they're thankful for being let off easy!

 

Correct. 👍

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4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

This attitude is worrying.

Better to vote on the cult of personality as opposed to principles eh?

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Konrad von Carstein
4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Well that's me convinced.

 

 

I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 

 

 

:sadrobbo:

 

Not bad, Konrad. Not bad.

 

 

Correct. 👍

 

I did wonder how that would be received!  :)

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jack D and coke
4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Well that's me convinced.

 

 

I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 

 

 

:sadrobbo:

 

Not bad, Konrad. Not bad.

 

 

Correct. 👍

You don’t accept there’s people who would vote against it at all costs too. That’s fine though? Is there a difference? 

To some it’s a determination to see Scotland regain its nationhood. The rest they’re happy to work out when we get there. It’s only really worrying if you somehow believe that’s Scotland is just completely incapable or ever doing anything without England holding our hand or firing money up our hoop to let us get free bus passes and prescriptions. That we disappear into an abyss or something. 

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5 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 

I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh?

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Dawnrazor
10 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh?

Vote accordingly I suppose?

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husref musemic
6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/11/12/scottish-independence-yes-51-49-no

 

 

Holyrood looking like a complete tanking for all from the SNP. 

 

 

when the opposition is chronic & Sturgeon gets more hours on daytime telly than Phil and Holly then no wonder they are ahead. 

"Democracy" at Westminster and Holyrood looking more like one party states.  Although looks likely to rebalance at WM next time.

we unfortunately are not that smart. More of the same with the end justifiying the means for most folk in Scotland.

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

You don’t accept there’s people who would vote against it at all costs too. That’s fine though? Is there a difference? 

 

 

Of course there is, and they scare me too.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

To some it’s a determination to see Scotland regain its nationhood.

 

Scotland has never stopped being a nation. I know that sounds contradictory to some of the other stuff I'll come out with but it's a cold, hard, fact.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

The rest they’re happy to work out when we get there.

 

There's a difference between working out the details when we get there, and working out everything when we get there. You know that though so I won't take issue with you about it. You're not in the indy at any cost camp.

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s only really worrying if you somehow believe that’s Scotland is just completely incapable or ever doing anything without England holding our hand or firing money up our hoop to let us get free bus passes and prescriptions.

 

You're barking up the wrong tree bud. I don't believe any of that. It's the blinkered pursuit of independence that worrys me. It's not a useful mindset for problem solving, and we'll be doing a lot of that.

I do think we could make a much better job of the union than the current shitshow though. All of our parliaments/governments are culpable on that score. They'll all finger point to death, but the cold truth is that in servicing their own interests and agendas they've let everybody down. 

 

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

That we disappear into an abyss or something. 

 

Got a babysitter so fully planning on this over the course of the evening. :) 👍

 

Enjoy the weekend, mate. ✌

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Governor Tarkin
46 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm genuinely concerned by the 'union at all costs' mindset, what can you do eh?

 

Self medicate.

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jack D and coke
22 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Of course there is, and they scare me too.

 

 

Scotland has never stopped being a nation. I know that sounds contradictory to some of the other stuff I'll come out with but it's a cold, hard, fact.

 

 

There's a difference between working out the details when we get there, and working out everything when we get there. You know that though so I won't take issue with you about it. You're not in the indy at any cost camp.

 

 

You're barking up the wrong tree bud. I don't believe any of that. It's the blinkered pursuit of independence that worrys me. It's not a useful mindset for problem solving, and we'll be doing a lot of that.

I do think we could make a much better job of the union than the current shitshow though. All of our parliaments/governments are culpable on that score. They'll all finger point to death, but the cold truth is that in servicing their own interests and agendas they've let everybody down. 

 

 

Got a babysitter so fully planning on this over the course of the evening. :) 👍

 

Enjoy the weekend, mate. ✌

:lol:

I’m same im on it. 
Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. 
All the very best to you and family bud🍾

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Roxy Hearts
6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Well that's me convinced.

 

 

I'm genuinely concerend by the 'independence at all costs' mindset. 

 

 

:sadrobbo:

 

Not bad, Konrad. Not bad.

 

 

Correct. 👍

I'm not trying to convince you GT. Politics is about policy and democracy not personality and that was the point I was trying to make. 

 

Love Star Wars and Peter Cushing!

 

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20 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

:lol:

I’m same im on it. 
Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. 
All the very best to you and family bud🍾

 

New arrival 😳

 

Congrats Tark

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Nucky Thompson
1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

New arrival 😳

 

Congrats Tark

I must have missed that too :D

 

Enjoy the sleepless nights :thumb:

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

 Politics is about policy and democracy not personality and that was the point I was trying to make. 

 

I'm annoyed at myself for not picking up on that, RH. Sorry. It's a good and fair point, and outwith the usual caveats I agree completely. 👍

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Governor Tarkin
6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

Enjoy the sleepless nights :thumb:

 

:muggy:

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Roxy Hearts
34 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'm annoyed at myself for not picking up on that, RH. Sorry. It's a good and fair point, and outwith the usual caveats I agree completely. 👍

No probs and congratulations on the wee one. It's a world of love.

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Governor Tarkin
3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

:lol:

I’m same im on it. 
Don’t believe I congratulated you on the new arrival either. 
All the very best to you and family bud🍾

 

:food-smiley-004:

 

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

New arrival 😳

 

Congrats Tark

 

Let me know when you're ot of the ChinaAIDS pokey, JZ. My new boy'll come pish on your beermat. 👍

 

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The Frenchman Returns

.

Edited by The Frenchman Returns
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Pans Jambo
On 13/11/2020 at 19:56, GinRummy said:

The tories are a party who have become the masters of distraction techiniques.  Most, if not all, of the things on your list have happened under the Tory government’s watch and they’ve somehow managed to convince enough people that all problems will be solved by leaving the EU. 

👍

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Pans Jambo
On 13/11/2020 at 20:27, Jambo_Gaz said:

STV poll. Okay then. 

STV? 😂

Almost every poll company but nice try Gaz 😂

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I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone.

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13 minutes ago, Herbert said:

I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone.

😃😃😃😃 kid on Hearts fan and now kid on SNP voter. Get a life 

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3 minutes ago, XB52 said:

😃😃😃😃 kid on Hearts fan and now kid on SNP voter. Get a life 

 

 

Never been called a kid on hearts fan before 😂

 

What makes me these things? I'm not but it would be interesting to see why you think this, Or is that just a easy thing to say to dismiss someone who has a different opinion?

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3 hours ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Never been called a kid on hearts fan before 😂

 

What makes me these things? I'm not but it would be interesting to see why you think this, Or is that just a easy thing to say to dismiss someone who has a different opinion?

Childish insults towards fellow posters are the order of the day from some on this thread. I've been on the end of it a few times. Thankfully I've resisted the temptation to lower myself to their level.

Edited by Fun Boaby
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Roxy Hearts
4 hours ago, Herbert said:

I hate sturgeon, Shes acting like a wee boy that was bullied at school. I've spoke to a few people and they are starting to turn because of the way she's handled covid. The SNP have lost my vote until she's gone.

I found the opposite. What and who's the alternative? Certainly not the dumplings from other parties in the Scottish Parliament. Maybe Ian Murray that fine upstanding Scot who loves his country!

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2 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I found the opposite. What and who's the alternative? Certainly not the dumplings from other parties in the Scottish Parliament. Maybe Ian Murray that fine upstanding Scot who loves his country!

 

There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead.

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coconut doug
15 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead.

 

I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it?

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2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it?

 

Section 13 is what the police use to get your details. You have the right to refuse to give your details to the police. Until they use this.  Under section 13 the police can just say they suspect you of a crime even if they actually dont and if you don't give your information you can get arrested. It's not really a big deal giving your name, But the point is we dont have to and dont need to tell the police anything provided you have done nothing wrong. Section 13 was created to take that away from people.

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jack D and coke
27 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

There is no alternative, Look at politicians they are out of touch with reality. They get paid a fortune to represent us and what do they do. Right now strip us of our rights, They are turning Scotland/UK into a police state, They use section 13 to breach our right to remain anonymous. They are taking about arresting and handing out fines to people that speak out against a rushed/untested vaccine. We've been confined to the house, made to queue for essentials now were threatened with punishment when we question the government. Stalin must be back from the dead.

We’ve had the most lax lockdown of any country I know. I have family in Oz and NZ etc and a place in Spain where the lockdowns have been pretty brutal. Much, much more police state like than here. 
I’ve been very critical of NS and the British govt. We’re all pissed off man but people don’t half make stuff up to try dig the SG out at times. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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23 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

Section 13 is what the police use to get your details. You have the right to refuse to give your details to the police. Until they use this.  Under section 13 the police can just say they suspect you of a crime even if they actually dont and if you don't give your information you can get arrested. It's not really a big deal giving your name, But the point is we dont have to and dont need to tell the police anything provided you have done nothing wrong. Section 13 was created to take that away from people.

You're funny! 

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3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You're funny! 

 

Under section 13 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995, a constable is empowered to require the name, address, date of birth, place of birth (in as much detail as the constable considers necessary) and the nationality of anyone whom they suspect of committing or having committed an offence. It is an offence to fail to provide these details or to fail to remain with the constable whilst these details are required or verified.

 

 

 

Now imagine the scenario, Your at a pro indy rally, All william Wallace shouting freedom. doing nothing wrong not breaking any laws. The police stop you. You have the right to walk away and not say a word. This power removes that right. The police can collect your details. This can be used against you at a later date. It wont be the first time people's information has been gathered to use against them in the future. The police in england have the stop and search thing. For a free country were not very free.

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33 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We’ve had the most lax lockdown of any country I know. I have family in Oz and NZ etc and a place in Spain where the lockdowns have been pretty brutal. Much, much more police state like than here. 
I’ve been very critical of NS and the British govt. We’re all pissed off man but people don’t half make stuff up to try dig the SG out at times. 

 

It's not just about the lockdown measures It's the legislations and laws they have been sliding in under the guise of covid 19. The misinformation and fear getting spread. The police have been fining people for not following government ADVICE. Advice isn't a law and you cant get fined for not following advice.

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46 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't recognise any of this. What is section 13 and who has suffered as a result of it?

Please don't encourage him. He hasn't a clue , just a troll 

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4 hours ago, Fun Boaby said:

Childish insults towards fellow posters are the order of the day from some on this thread. I've been on the end of it a few times. Thankfully I've resisted the temptation to lower myself to their level.

Stupid is as stupid does 

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jack D and coke
Just now, Herbert said:

 

It's not just about the lockdown measures It's the legislations and laws they have been sliding in under the guise of covid 19. The misinformation and fear getting spread. The police have been fining people for not following government ADVICE. Advice isn't a law and you cant get fined for not following advice.

Yeah mate do you know anyone been getting fined? Nobody gives two shites here that I’ve seen. I know a few who felt the force of a real police state in Spain for example. 
The reaction here had our police been instructed to behave the way they did in Spain or NZ or Oz would have people in absolute meltdown. I barely see a policeman here. 

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5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah mate do you know anyone been getting fined? Nobody gives two shites here that I’ve seen. I know a few who felt the force of a real police state in Spain for example. 
The reaction here had our police been instructed to behave the way they did in Spain or NZ or Oz would have people in absolute meltdown. I barely see a policeman here. 

 

Not personally no. Just what's been reported in the news and what people have told me in the shop. Do you not the government  know it would cause riots if they went about it like they do in Spain. Our politicians do everything underhand so why would turning us into a police state be any different?

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11 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Please don't encourage him. He hasn't a clue , just a troll 

 

Maybe you could fill us in on section 13 and why the police use it, Since I dont have a clue.

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jack D and coke
44 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

Not personally no. Just what's been reported in the news and what people have told me in the shop. Do you not the government  know it would cause riots if they went about it like they do in Spain. Our politicians do everything underhand so why would turning us into a police state be any different?

Are we going into the world plot now? Into Q-Anon territory that is it not? 
Scotland or the UK as police states is laughable mate. We have completely different ways of policing as you’d find almost anywhere else in the world. 

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37 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Are we going into the world plot now? Into Q-Anon territory that is it not? 
Scotland or the UK as police states is laughable mate. We have completely different ways of policing as you’d find almost anywhere else in the world. 

 

 

Better hope me and a growing number of people are wrong then.

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jack D and coke
2 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Better hope me and a growing number of people are wrong then.

I won’t ever allow myself to go down that rabbit hole mate. It’s a life of abject misery imo. 

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4 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Better hope me and a growing number of people are wrong then.

You're funny! 

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11 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

Better hope me and a growing number of people are wrong then.

Well every one with a brain knows you are wrong. Honestly why don't you head over to Washington DC where you will find loads of brain dead idiots to agree with you 

Actually don't bother replying, trolls are on ignore.  Bye 

Edited by XB52
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