The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Auld Reekin']

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I don't read such a rag, I have watched them, pretty poor reply to be honest.

 

 

Well, it was a pretty poor dig about the "Party Political Broadcast". Anyway, I enjoy a lot of your non-political posts - and even some of your political ones are worthwhile and interesting - so not looking for a barney. 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Well, it was a pretty poor dig about the "Party Political Broadcast". Anyway, I enjoy a lot of your non-political posts - and even some of your political ones are worthwhile and interesting - so not looking for a barney. 

I wasn't looking for a barney either, I made a point about the Yes vote being ahead but no electoral campaign had begun for the No side to properly question the points, you then accused me of bing trite, being a Daily Mail reader and reckoned I've never seen a daily briefing of Sturgeon's briefings!!! And people wonder how threads decend into a rammy!!

[Unknown user]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

I wasn't looking for a barney either, I made a point about the Yes vote being ahead but no electoral campaign had begun for the No side to properly question the points, you then accused me of bing trite, being a Daily Mail reader and reckoned I've never seen a daily briefing of Sturgeon's briefings!!! And people wonder how threads decend into a rammy!!

*descend

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

*descend

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wheest!!! I'm trying to type on my phone while eating my tea, having a beer and avoiding eye contact with Mrs Dawnrazor who's chucking me daggers and diong it one handed!!!

[Auld Reekin']

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I wasn't looking for a barney either, I made a point about the Yes vote being ahead but no electoral campaign had begun for the No side to properly question the points, you then accused me of bing trite, being a Daily Mail reader and reckoned I've never seen a daily briefing of Sturgeon's briefings!!! And people wonder how threads decend into a rammy!!

 

I'll give you that, but to say "there's been no campaigning from the remain side...", as you did initially, is very far from the case. Your PPB comment was trite, but I apologise unreservedly for my accusation of Daily Mail readership!   

[Auld Reekin']

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Wheest!!! I'm trying to type on my phone while eating my tea, having a beer and avoiding eye contact with Mrs Dawnrazor who's chucking me daggers and diong it one handed!!!

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

I'll give you that, but to say "there's been no campaigning from the remain side...", as you did initially, is very far from the case. Your PPB comment was trite, but I apologise unreservedly for my accusation of Daily Mail readership!   

But its not, there's been sniping and bad mouthing from both sides but not real campaigning. My PPB quip was an attempt at humour rather that being trite👍

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

I'll give you that, but to say "there's been no campaigning from the remain side...", as you did initially, is very far from the case. Your PPB comment was trite, but I apologise unreservedly for my accusation of Daily Mail readership!   

I was quite hurt at that accusation, but thankfully nobody would believe it as The Star is the only paper with tits on page 3 these days!!!

[Auld Reekin']

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

But its not, there's been sniping and bad mouthing from both sides but not real campaigning. My PPB quip was an attempt at humour rather that being trite👍

 

OK, fair enough, but I start to lose my sense of humour when I see that being trotted-out for the umpteenth time, often by particularly-loathsome, slimy, lying, utterly-untrustworthy, unionist MPs / MSPs.

 

You're right about another thing: the only tits in the Daily Mail are the journalists and editors.  

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

OK, fair enough, but I start to lose my sense of humour when I see that being trotted-out for the umpteenth time, often by particularly-loathsome, slimy, lying, utterly-untrustworthy, unionist MPs / MSPs.

 

You're right about another thing: the only tits in the Daily Mail are the journalists and editors.  

Ok.......you've got me there😁👍

[Guest]

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Snp are fast becoming an absolute embarrassment to Scotland 

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I don’t want it and actually I think one of the best ways to stop it is to highlight all the uncertainty and risks there are and to make out the SNP don’t have a plan for how to deal with it.  
 

To combat that if the Yes vote lay out as much detail as they can it eliminates the idea that either they don’t know and/or are making it up.  Sure the other side will pick holes in it but I think yes will be in a stronger position if they have clear plans to describe the future than hoping people do another Brexit and vote for something they have no idea over.  If I was the Labour leader I would just go all over Scotland saying how much of a total balls up Brexit was because we didn’t know what we were voting for and how could we make that mistake again.  The Yes side need to combat that as it wasn’t such a big factor in 2014.  Don’t underestimate how scarred people will be by Brexit.  Not the yes hard core but undecideds.  

We've "corresponded" previously and you know my view on why I think independence has to happen.

 

It would be "interesting" watching the Pro-Union parties trying to lay out the risks (as you and they see them) associated with indy after the utter horror show that has been Brexit with the additional fly in the ointment of the false promises (lies) they put forward at the last indy referendum.

 

I think that outweighs your "total balls up" section above as that, in my opinion, is the cause of many No to Yes amongst the voters.

 

I would suggest that the anger and dismay of broken promises & "vows" will be more of an issue than the scars of Brexit.

[JyTees]

6 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I personally blame the individuals.

Their life choice. No government regardless of political persuasion to blame here. 

Personal responsibility here, or total lack of it.

 

So are you saying Scots are more inclined to make "bad life choices" than any other nation in Europe and a large chunk of the world? Scots have a higher prevalence for addiction? It's all down to some Scottish gene? Nothing to do with the circumstances that surrounds their lives? Unemployment? Poverty? Scottish society in general? Come on man.

 

Btw, I'm not solely blaming the current incumbents, it's been a huge problem for successive governments and generations. The current lot though, have succeeded in taking things to new depths.

 

It'd be nice for a change, if Nationalists would accept a wee bit culpability every now and again. Maybe if they took stock of their problems they'd be able to manage them better? (Not directed at you btw John).

 

[JyTees]

12 hours ago, Candy said:

That'll be John Mackay on the Nationalist naughty step now next to Andrew Marr

 

 

This is the guy who we're reliant on getting fans back to the football. 

 

We're ****ed! Roll on season 2022/23!

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

This is the guy who we're reliant on getting fans back to the football. 

 

We're ****ed! Roll on season 2022/23!

Why are we relying on the ‘drugs minister’ to get us back into football? 
 

Could be the camera angle but he looks like he’s got a really pointy heid. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Why are we relying on the ‘drugs minister’ to get us back into football? 
 

Could be the camera angle but he looks like he’s got a really pointy heid. 

He's minister for Public health, sport and wellbeing 

[Brighton Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

We've "corresponded" previously and you know my view on why I think independence has to happen.

 

It would be "interesting" watching the Pro-Union parties trying to lay out the risks (as you and they see them) associated with indy after the utter horror show that has been Brexit with the additional fly in the ointment of the false promises (lies) they put forward at the last indy referendum.

 

I think that outweighs your "total balls up" section above as that, in my opinion, is the cause of many No to Yes amongst the voters.

 

I would suggest that the anger and dismay of broken promises & "vows" will be more of an issue than the scars of Brexit.

I simply don’t think that true to be honest.  I don’t think many no to yes voters could clearly articulate what was promised and what has and hasn’t been delivered.  Not least because both sides have a different view.  For example I had a ‘discussion’ in Twitter with a pro Indy chap the other day who tried to tell me the shipbuilding promised hadn’t been honoured. 
 

The No to Yes has only really happened in a meaningful way in the last 12 months so don’t really understand why now the vow I suddenly on peoples minds.  To me it’s clearly Boris and the view of respective performance of him and NS during Covid. I don’t think Brexit has had as much of an impact as some say as No led for years post the 2016 vote. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I simply don’t think that true to be honest.  I don’t think many no to yes voters could clearly articulate what was promised and what has and hasn’t been delivered.  Not least because both sides have a different view.  For example I had a ‘discussion’ in Twitter with a pro Indy chap the other day who tried to tell me the shipbuilding promised hadn’t been honoured. 
 

The No to Yes has only really happened in a meaningful way in the last 12 months so don’t really understand why now the vow I suddenly on peoples minds.  To me it’s clearly Boris and the view of respective performance of him and NS during Covid. I don’t think Brexit has had as much of an impact as some say as No led for years post the 2016 vote. 

All I can say to your well put case is that I hope we get to test both our theories out sometime soon...

 

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

All I can say to your well put case is that I hope we get to test both our theories out sometime soon...

 

👍

Edited December 16, 2020 by Brighton Jambo

[Fxxx the SPFL]

52 minutes ago, Candy said:

 

 

 

good Jambo is our Drew

[JyTees]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Why are we relying on the ‘drugs minister’ to get us back into football? 
 

Could be the camera angle but he looks like he’s got a really pointy heid. 

 

As Candy pointed out, the SNP managed to roll health and sport into one department. And then managed to appoint the most incompetent clown in politics to the position. Quite a feat when you consider the plethora of fukwittery that covers both WM and Holyrood!

[steve123]

So just had a thought ( probably been mentioned in thread) if SNP get independence then all the Westminister MPs would return and surely be vying for top jobs.

 

Not rocket science but I had not thought of it.

 

 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, JyTees said:

 

So are you saying Scots are more inclined to make "bad life choices" than any other nation in Europe and a large chunk of the world? Scots have a higher prevalence for addiction? It's all down to some Scottish gene? Nothing to do with the circumstances that surrounds their lives? Unemployment? Poverty? Scottish society in general? Come on man.

 

Btw, I'm not solely blaming the current incumbents, it's been a huge problem for successive governments and generations. The current lot though, have succeeded in taking things to new depths.

 

It'd be nice for a change, if Nationalists would accept a wee bit culpability every now and again. Maybe if they took stock of their problems they'd be able to manage them better? (Not directed at you btw John).

 

Yes, I am. When I was growing up. My father more than my mother drummed into me the importance of education and a hard work ethic.

Alot of that has gone from to coin a phrase the scheme working class.

Far to many firmly believe the world owes them a living. 

I see it everyday as I live right on the edge of Royston. I was brought up in Royston, West pilton with a year sabbatical in Gracemount and 8 months in Canaan Lodge children's home.

Yes from my very personal experience I witness far to many make the wrong choices as they think it's the easy way. 

I refuse to make excuses for alot of these people as I firmly believe they do make the wrong choices.

 

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Yes, I am. When I was growing up. My father more than my mother drummed into me the importance of education and a hard work ethic.

Alot of that has gone from to coin a phrase the scheme working class.

Far to many firmly believe the world owes them a living. 

I see it everyday as I live right on the edge of Royston. I was brought up in Royston, West pilton with a year sabbatical in Gracemount and 8 months in Canaan Lodge children's home.

Yes from my very personal experience I witness far to many make the wrong choices as they think it's the easy way. 

I refuse to make excuses for alot of these people as I firmly believe they do make the wrong choices.

 

A lot of good points in that.

[JyTees]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Yes, I am. When I was growing up. My father more than my mother drummed into me the importance of education and a hard work ethic.

Alot of that has gone from to coin a phrase the scheme working class.

Far to many firmly believe the world owes them a living. 

I see it everyday as I live right on the edge of Royston. I was brought up in Royston, West pilton with a year sabbatical in Gracemount and 8 months in Canaan Lodge children's home.

Yes from my very personal experience I witness far to many make the wrong choices as they think it's the easy way. 

I refuse to make excuses for alot of these people as I firmly believe they do make the wrong choices.

 

 

Don't disagree with any of that. But that points the blame at Scottish society.

 

I've heard it mentioned on numerous occasions by coaches at the top of the game, if a young promising Scottish footballer wants to make it to the top, they need to leave Scotland. Invariably, they fall into the same societal traps as many have done before them. We've probably all seen it first hand!

 

Now I've no idea how we rectify these issues in our society, but I'm certainly not absolving this government, or the many that have come before it, of any blame.

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, steve123 said:

So just had a thought ( probably been mentioned in thread) if SNP get independence then all the Westminister MPs would return and surely be vying for top jobs.

 

Not rocket science but I had not thought of it.

 

 

If  you vote No in the next yin you get 2 Bazooka Joe’s and a wee taste of my Sherbert Dip. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

13 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Can't agree with you thinking a campaign isn't underway at the moment.  She has a televised daily address to the country without any challenge.

I don't see these addresses,  been living abroad,  but my understanding is they are covid related. How much time in each address is allocated to setting out the case for independence?

[Unknown user]

12 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Yes, I am. When I was growing up. My father more than my mother drummed into me the importance of education and a hard work ethic.

Alot of that has gone from to coin a phrase the scheme working class.

Far to many firmly believe the world owes them a living. 

I see it everyday as I live right on the edge of Royston. I was brought up in Royston, West pilton with a year sabbatical in Gracemount and 8 months in Canaan Lodge children's home.

Yes from my very personal experience I witness far to many make the wrong choices as they think it's the easy way. 

I refuse to make excuses for alot of these people as I firmly believe they do make the wrong choices.

 

As your point was a comparison with other nations how does that compare to those in poor estates in England, Poland or elsewhere? 

Is what you describe uniquely Scottish?

[John Findlay]

34 minutes ago, Smithee said:

As your point was a comparison with other nations how does that compare to those in poor estates in England, Poland or elsewhere? 

Is what you describe uniquely Scottish?

In a way yes. I believe they are better educated than us. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, John Findlay said:

In a way yes. I believe they are better educated than us. 

If we're saying scotland has the biggest problem, and you're saying education is to blame, does scotland have the worst education in the world?

 

I think it's a waste of time to over simplify like this when it's a massive, hugely nuanced picture with lots of aspects; poverty, lack of opportunity, lack of investment and hope, a culture that celebrates getting wasted, even our dreich climate.

[Justin Z]

16 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's not the same as a campaign though is it? 

 

Only by the standard that the First Minister's daily address to her country—about something wholly unrelated to independence—is a campaign, I suppose.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Justin Z

[Auld Reekin']

8 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I don't see these addresses,  been living abroad,  but my understanding is they are covid related. How much time in each address is allocated to setting out the case for independence?

A very pertinent question. The answer to it is “none at all”, and your understanding of the broadcasts is absolutely correct.
 

[John Findlay]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

If we're saying scotland has the biggest problem, and you're saying education is to blame, does scotland have the worst education in the world?

 

I think it's a waste of time to over simplify like this when it's a massive, hugely nuanced picture with lots of aspects; poverty, lack of opportunity, lack of investment and hope, a culture that celebrates getting wasted, even our dreich climate.

No it doesnt. I will re-phrase. Alot of these people dont want to be educated. They think not going to school is the clever thing to do. 

Sadly they dont have parents( they did the samething themselves) who will make them go to school and let them know the benefit of a decent education. 

As I said at the outset bad choices.

[Justin Z]

8 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I don't see these addresses,  been living abroad,  but my understanding is they are covid related. How much time in each address is allocated to setting out the case for independence?

 

The mischaracterisation of them you're seeing is useful information to be sure, but not about the addresses themselves. Rather, about the fears of those in favour of the status quo.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

No it doesnt. I will re-phrase. Alot of these people dont want to be educated. They think not going to school is the clever thing to do. 

Sadly they dont have parents( they did the samething themselves) who will make them go to school and let them know the benefit of a decent education. 

As I said at the outset bad choices.

 

Good thoughts John. Working class intellectual heroes like Eugene Debs, who valued education as a fundamental key to lifting the masses' lot, have been largely forgotten to the mists of history. Folks like him will have influenced your parents' approach for sure, I'd imagine.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No it doesnt. I will re-phrase. Alot of these people dont want to be educated. They think not going to school is the clever thing to do. 

Sadly they dont have parents( they did the samething themselves) who will make them go to school and let them know the benefit of a decent education. 

As I said at the outset bad choices.

OK, I'm not doubting that, but what I'm getting at is why is this more of a problem in Scotland than elsewhere?

[John Findlay]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

OK, I'm not doubting that, but what I'm getting at is why is this more of a problem in Scotland than elsewhere?

Just explained that to you.

[Unknown user]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Just explained that to you.

Did you? You described a problem, but is it a particularly Scottish problem? Are Scottish mothers the shittiest in the world these days?

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Did you? You described a problem, but is it a particularly Scottish problem? Are Scottish mothers the shittiest in the world these days?

Quite possibly along with fathers.

Dont forget the fathers.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Quite possibly along with fathers.

Dont forget the fathers.

I think I'll leave it there, people can decide for themselves if this is true or if it's a much more complicated picture than that.

[jack D and coke]

Just discovered what Drew Hendry was removed from Parliament for.
What an absolute hero🥰and hilarious

Absolutely anything that pokes them in the eyes in that place gets my vote. From any party. It’s like the ****ing 1700’s in that place ffs. 
Gawn yirsel Drew. 

[XB52]

Latest poll in that well known snp supporting paper the Scotsman?? Support for independence at 58%. And yet this thread title remains the same😁😁

[Justin Z]

21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Just discovered what Drew Hendry was removed from Parliament for.
What an absolute hero🥰and hilarious

Absolutely anything that pokes them in the eyes in that place gets my vote. From any party. It’s like the ****ing 1700’s in that place ffs. 
Gawn yirsel Drew. 

 

Out with it then?

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Out with it then?

Was protesting over the internal market bill, refused to retake his seat then picked up the parliamentary mace. 
Wonderful stuff  

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Out with it then?

Exactly, it was trousers down and a helicopter in the speaker's face

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Latest poll in that well known snp supporting paper the Scotsman?? Support for independence at 58%. And yet this thread title remains the same😁😁

Cue the fake polls bantz now. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Was protesting over the internal market bill, refused to retake his seat then picked up the parliamentary mace. 
Wonderful stuff  

Ron Brown did that about 20 years ago. Was he not a Leith MP? 

[theshed]

32 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Just discovered what Drew Hendry was removed from Parliament for.
What an absolute hero🥰and hilarious

Absolutely anything that pokes them in the eyes in that place gets my vote. From any party. It’s like the ****ing 1700’s in that place ffs. 
Gawn yirsel Drew. 

No got a clue what he’s done but to call him a hero 🤷‍♀️

[Space Mackerel]

Gorgeous. 😍