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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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coconut doug
3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

So would I and I'd say the way kids are taught now, is extremely poor in comparison to how me and my sister were taught. 

 

I don't want to be rude or pedantic but don't you mean my sister and i rather than "me and my sister" and isn't it just this sort of thing that children nowadays are not very good at leading many people to berate modern education.

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coconut doug
10 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Look a few posts up.

 

Which indicators do you think are the best to show that the SNP have messed up education?

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Dawnrazor
3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Which indicators do you think are the best to show that the SNP have messed up education?

The ones that show it.

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coconut doug
1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

The ones that show it.

 

Do the ones that don't show it show something else?

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Dawnrazor
Just now, coconut doug said:

 

Do the ones that don't show it show something else?

No.

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Tories about to fall. Comm chief gone and Cummings is next. Boris must be about to be sacked by his party, anaw. 

All the while, the saviours of Scotland take us closer to independence. 

:jambobanana:

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25 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't want to be rude or pedantic, but don't you mean my sister and I rather than "me and my sister", and isn't it this sort of thing that children are not very good at these days leading many people to berate modern education.

Indeed. 

 

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1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I prefer to use my own personal judgement when analysing education. My daughter is at Uni as are most of her friends and they had a brilliant education at both primary and secondary. 3 of my grandkids are at school and they love it. In my experience I don't think education is as poor as it's portrayed but then again anything the SNP do is bad for some. 

 

They're the government and make mistakes but it's not all negative.

 

Did you pay for their education?

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The SNP could do a lot worse than have the two Northern Irish MPs at the very top. They are very good. Probably two of the best. 

Edited by ri Alban
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Weakened Offender
8 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't want to be rude or pedantic but don't you mean my sister and i rather than "me and my sister" and isn't it just this sort of thing that children nowadays are not very good at leading many people to berate modern education.

 

😬😁😁

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10 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Tories about to fall. Comm chief gone and Cummings is next. Boris must be about to be sacked by his party, anaw. 

All the while, the saviours of Scotland take us closer to independence. 

:jambobanana:

Unfortunately, never has a man been so wrong about so many things in such a short space of time.

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Governor Tarkin
3 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Fortunately, never has a man been so wrong about so many things in such a short space of time.

 

:sadrobbo:

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Lying about test and protect data,

3500 individuals who tested positive still to be traced

Nationalist in Hamilton says GIRFUY to her constituents

 

Bad day for the Nationalist party.

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Jambo_Gaz
15 hours ago, ri Alban said:

The SNP could do a lot worse than have the two Northern Irish MPs at the very top. They are very good. Probably two of the best. 

Wtf you on about. 

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Pans Jambo
14 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Lying about test and protect data,

3500 individuals who tested positive still to be traced

Nationalist in Hamilton says GIRFUY to her constituents

 

Bad day for the Nationalist party.

Nobody cares.

The tories spent Billions awarding dodgy contracts in order to line their own pockets...nobody cares.

They lied about Brexit and nobody cares.

Nobody...

Cares!

The SNP will win a record landslide victory in the elections next year in Scotland. Labour and tories will be decimated up here.

Nobody cares who says or does what in the SNP from now to then because everyone knows what the goal is. Independence.

Scots will vote SNP en-masse and then we kick on to Indy ref 2.

Nobody cares about the "Nationalist in Hamilton"...Nobody!

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Nobody cares.

The tories spent Billions awarding dodgy contracts in order to line their own pockets...nobody cares.

They lied about Brexit and nobody cares.

Nobody...

Cares!

The SNP will win a record landslide victory in the elections next year in Scotland. Labour and tories will be decimated up here.

Nobody cares who says or does what in the SNP from now to then because everyone knows what the goal is. Independence.

Scots will vote SNP en-masse and then we kick on to Indy ref 2.

Nobody cares about the "Nationalist in Hamilton"...Nobody!

 

 

Exactly, and the unionists are fuming as they are totally helpless to stop it

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Governor Tarkin
28 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

Nobody cares who says or does what in the SNP from now to then because everyone knows what the goal is. Independence.

Scots will vote SNP en-masse and then we kick on to Indy ref 2.

Nobody cares about the "Nationalist in Hamilton"...Nobody!

 

 

 

The fact that nobody cares is the bit that I find most worrying tbh.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that nobody cares is the bit that I find most worrying tbh.

 

 

Yep.

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coconut doug
17 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Lying about test and protect data,

3500 individuals who tested positive still to be traced

Nationalist in Hamilton says GIRFUY to her constituents

 

Bad day for the Nationalist party.

 

I would imagine she will be resigning before the end of the day now that you have found her out.   

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that nobody cares is the bit that I find most worrying tbh.

 

 

So do I.

 

Grenfell

Windrush

Brexit mistruths

Paedophile investigations

Misappropriation

The list goes on...

 

Nobody accountable and no front page headlines either!

 

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, XB52 said:

Exactly, and the unionists are fuming as they are totally helpless to stop it

This is the truth behind every SNP BAD snivelling post on here.

Edited by Pans Jambo
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1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that nobody cares is the bit that I find most worrying tbh.

 

 

Indeed. I'd vote Indy with some caveats but I wouldn't vote for the snp if you paid me. 

 

I'm pretty positive they'll be getting binned in May regardless as to whether there is a majority of support in the polls for Indy.

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Pans Jambo
Just now, Cruyff said:

Indeed. I'd vote Indy with some caveats but I wouldn't vote for the snp if you paid me. 

 

I'm pretty positive they'll be getting binned in May regardless as to whether there is a majority of support in the polls for Indy.

Mate, your delusional. The SNP will win and win BIG. Record breaking BIG.

 

After Indy I wouldnt vote for them either but you have to look at the alternative

"Scottish" Labour :gok:

"Scottish" tories :facepalm:

 

"Scottish" "Liberal" "Democrats :cornette:

 

Greens :interehjrling:

 

Sad as it is, the SNP are the only show in town and the main vehicle that will take us to Independence REGARDLESS if they are useless as feck!!!

 

NOBODY CARES!!!

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Governor Tarkin
37 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So do I.

 

Grenfell

Windrush

Brexit mistruths

Paedophile investigations

Misappropriation

The list goes on...

 

Nobody accountable and no front page headlines either!

 

 

Grenfell.

 

612.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format

 

Windrush.

 

9b7c265609c7cbf37876c6197c9c1fa3.jpg

 

Brexit mistruths.

 

_103521408_guardian.jpg

 

Paedophile investigations

 

phpYCNLcLAM.jpg?width=700&quality=85&aut

 

 

Misappropriation

 

_111854504_feat-img.jpg RRkPVX6DT4aKLnG0QV3O_Mirror%201108.PNG

 

Nobody accountable and no front page headlines either.

 

:cornette_dog:

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Governor Tarkin
20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

Sad as it is, the SNP are the only show in town and the main vehicle that will take us to Independence REGARDLESS if they are useless as feck!!!

 

NOBODY CARES!!!

 

It's generally amusing to watch someone revel in their own ignorance and stupidity, but not this time.

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Spitonastranger
17 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Lying about test and protect data,

3500 individuals who tested positive still to be traced

Nationalist in Hamilton says GIRFUY to her constituents

 

Bad day for the Nationalist party.

You know the 3500 are people who have not responded to calls or texts to them, but don't let that get in your way. After last night a tourney and independence :) 

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Pans Jambo
13 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Grenfell.

 

612.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format

 

Windrush.

 

9b7c265609c7cbf37876c6197c9c1fa3.jpg

 

Brexit mistruths.

 

_103521408_guardian.jpg

 

Paedophile investigations

 

phpYCNLcLAM.jpg?width=700&quality=85&aut

 

 

Misappropriation

 

_111854504_feat-img.jpg RRkPVX6DT4aKLnG0QV3O_Mirror%201108.PNG

 

Nobody accountable and no front page headlines either.

 

:cornette_dog:

 

 

You know what I meant. All of that! ALL OF IT has now been "swept under the carpet" and nobody in power or in the media gives a feck anymore!

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Pans Jambo
9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's generally amusing to watch someone revel in their own ignorance and stupidity, but not this time.

So change my mind then Tarkin.

I think folk will vote SNP in their droves because:

1. They are the only show in town.

2. They are the party most likely to get us to Independence.

 

I will vote for them on that basis.

 

So because of that, I am "ignorant and stupid"? Is that right?

 

Are you going to vote Labour or tory because they "just need one more chance to get it right"?

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32 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Mate, your delusional. The SNP will win and win BIG. Record breaking BIG.

 

After Indy I wouldnt vote for them either but you have to look at the alternative

"Scottish" Labour :gok:

"Scottish" tories :facepalm:

 

"Scottish" "Liberal" "Democrats :cornette:

 

Greens :interehjrling:

 

Sad as it is, the SNP are the only show in town and the main vehicle that will take us to Independence REGARDLESS if they are useless as feck!!!

 

NOBODY CARES!!!

You're certainly right in the sense that there is no alternative but it is that level of ignorance SLab supporters had that finished them off.

 

The Scottish electorate aren't daft and I believe they do care about policy. It is just whether lndy is seen as the more important macro goal in the short term before we can get a Scotland that can fully focus on individual areas and policy.

 

The more the UK gov say no and continue on their rudderless path, the more likely people are to probably vote the SNP, purely  for a referendum. 

 

As someone who did support the SNP however, I believe that their ability to govern was equally as important and I personally think they are useless. My dislike for the SNP entirely relates to their supporters who are very much hands over ears and heads in the sand. 

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Governor Tarkin
6 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So change my mind then Tarkin.

I think folk will vote SNP in their droves because:

1. They are the only show in town.

2. They are the party most likely to get us to Independence.

 

I will vote for them on that basis.

 

So because of that, I am "ignorant and stupid"? Is that right?

 

Are you going to vote Labour or tory because they "just need one more chance to get it right"?

 

Bet you couldn't name a single Scotttish Labour policy without google.

 

You are so fixated on independence that absoultely **** all else matters to you. 

 

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Pans Jambo
1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

You're certainly right in the sense that there is no alternative but it is that level of ignorance SLab supporters had that finished them off.

 

The Scottish electorate aren't daft and I believe they do care about policy. It is just whether lndy is seen as the more important macro goal in the short term before we can get a Scotland that can fully focus on individual areas and policy.

 

The more the UK gov say no and continue on their rudderless path, the more likely people are to probably vote the SNP, purely  for a referendum. 

 

As someone who did support the SNP however, I believe that their ability to govern was equally as important and I personally think they are useless. My dislike for the SNP entirely relates to their supporters who are very much hands over ears and heads in the sand. 

I think your last sentence is a bit unfair. I support them but only because of the trajectory I want to happen. In an Indy Scotland I know they will go the way of UKIP with their raison d'etre being fulfilled. Sure they may get one term after the event but they will surely splinter into different factions/parties.

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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You're certainly right in the sense that there is no alternative but it is that level of ignorance SLab supporters had that finished them off.

 

The Scottish electorate aren't daft and I believe they do care about policy. It is just whether lndy is seen as the more important macro goal in the short term before we can get a Scotland that can fully focus on individual areas and policy.

 

The more the UK gov say no and continue on their rudderless path, the more likely people are to probably vote the SNP, purely  for a referendum. 

 

As someone who did support the SNP however, I believe that their ability to govern was equally as important and I personally think they are useless. My dislike for the SNP entirely relates to their supporters who are very much hands over ears and heads in the sand. 

 

Good post.

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Pans Jambo
Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Bet you couldn't name a single Scotttish Labour policy without google.

 

You are so fixated on independence that absoultely **** all else matters to you. 

 

Thats true. But then I WAS a Labour man a decade or so ago and I probably will be again...in an Independent Scotland.

Thems the facts!

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Pans Jambo

The irony is if you want to get rid of the SNP....vote for them and vote for Scottish Independence. They will disappear like a fart in the wind after that.

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Governor Tarkin
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

The irony is if you want to get rid of the SNP....vote for them and vote for Scottish Independence. They will disappear like a fart in the wind after that.

 

I wish I shared your optimism, bud. :D 👍

 

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51 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

I think your last sentence is a bit unfair. I support them but only because of the trajectory I want to happen. In an Indy Scotland, I know they will go the way of UKIP with their raison d'etre being fulfilled. Sure they may get one term after the event but they will surely splinter into different factions/parties.

That's just what I see on Twitter or on here. Don't get me wrong the SNP has done some good things too but if you put a macro goal of Indy over policies that affect peoples lives in the short to medium term, you're going to end up out of office. 

 

The entire Scottish constitutional philosophy is based on the "sovereignty of the Scottish people" and I think the SNP have forgotten their audience to be honest because they are so focused with that one thing.

 

There will be many people from both sides of the fence that maybe voted SNP last time and perhaps think, you need to look after the people first and foremost. If your record is patchy on Education, Healthcare etc.. places where lives are affected on a personal level, Indy may well be a secondary concern. 

 

I'd also add after Brexit and Covid,  folk are tired of listening to these constitutional wranglings, constant bickering, debates etc. Folk just want an easy life and a good standard of living. Right now you couldn't say that we have an easy life. Folk are losing their jobs, everyone's trapped inside their house. It's a nightmare. I've supported Indy since I was politically aware in my early teens but tbh, Independence isn't even on the radar at the minute.

 

So personally, I don't think it is a slam dunk that the SNP will win a majority at the next Scottish Parliamentary Elections. I think this one will be very much a case of 'which party can do what for me.'

Edited by Cruyff
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1 hour ago, Spitonastranger said:

You know the 3500 are people who have not responded to calls or texts to them, but don't let that get in your way. After last night a tourney and independence :) 

It will be my 4th "tourney" Deity worshipper. What about you? 

 

 

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Pans Jambo
58 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

That's just what I see on Twitter or on here. Don't get me wrong the SNP has done some good things too but if you put a macro goal of Indy over policies that affect peoples lives in the short to medium term, you're going to end up out of office. 

 

The entire Scottish constitutional philosophy is based on the "sovereignty of the Scottish people" and I think the SNP have forgotten their audience to be honest because they are so focused with that one thing.

 

There will be many people from both sides of the fence that maybe voted SNP last time and perhaps think, you need to look after the people first and foremost. If your record is patchy on Education, Healthcare etc.. places where lives are affected on a personal level, Indy may well be a secondary concern. 

 

I'd also add after Brexit and Covid,  folk are tired of listening to these constitutional wranglings, constant bickering, debates etc. Folk just want an easy life and a good standard of living. Right now you couldn't say that we have an easy life. Folk are losing their jobs, everyone's trapped inside their house. It's a nightmare. I've supported Indy since I was politically aware in my early teens but tbh, Independence isn't even on the radar at the minute.

 

So personally, I don't think it is a slam dunk that the SNP will win a majority at the next Scottish Parliamentary Elections. I think this one will be very much a case of 'which party can do what for me.'

"Which party can do what for me" is exactly as it SHOULD be but as you know, we live in strange times.

 

You can never fully trust the polls. Well, not 2 or 3 on their own but when you get around 15 in a row from various companies all showing the same thing, you must realise its looking like the worm has turned.

 

As much as I enjoyed reading your post Cruyff, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think it's a nailed on certainty however; we will both know in a matter of months I suppose.

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coconut doug
1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

You're certainly right in the sense that there is no alternative but it is that level of ignorance SLab supporters had that finished them off.

 

The Scottish electorate aren't daft and I believe they do care about policy. It is just whether lndy is seen as the more important macro goal in the short term before we can get a Scotland that can fully focus on individual areas and policy.

 

The more the UK gov say no and continue on their rudderless path, the more likely people are to probably vote the SNP, purely  for a referendum. 

 

As someone who did support the SNP however, I believe that their ability to govern was equally as important and I personally think they are useless. My dislike for the SNP entirely relates to their supporters who are very much hands over ears and heads in the sand. 

 

Then your dislike is misplaced as far as JKB is concerned anyway. Almost every Indy supporter on here at least, is sick of the SNP but as is frequently pointed out by many, yourself included, there is no feasible alternative. At least indy makes us totally responsible for our actions and will concentrate minds imo.  Many at the top of the SNP don't want indy and it will be this that destroys them imo. There might be one last chance for them but i doubt it.

   You really didn't think the SNP were going to be viable after Indy did you?

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23 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

"Which party can do what for me" is exactly as it SHOULD be but as you know, we live in strange times.

 

You can never fully trust the polls. Well, not 2 or 3 on their own but when you get around 15 in a row from various companies all showing the same thing, you must realise its looking like the worm has turned.

 

As much as I enjoyed reading your post Cruyff, I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think it's a nailed on certainty however; we will both know in a matter of months I suppose.

Are the polls relating to Indy and who is seen as the most favourable leader?

 

Clearly NS has shown good leadership, she's in front of the cameras everyday. So that doesn't surprise me if she is seen as 'more popular'.

 

I understand the polls for Indy are around 55% in favour but neither of those things are relevant to whether the SNP get a majority imo. That's based on a referendum question. 

 

13 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Then your dislike is misplaced as far as JKB is concerned anyway. Almost every Indy supporter on here at least, is sick of the SNP but as is frequently pointed out by many, yourself included, there is no feasible alternative. At least indy makes us totally responsible for our actions and will concentrate minds imo.  Many at the top of the SNP don't want indy and it will be this that destroys them imo. There might be one last chance for them but i doubt it.

   You really didn't think the SNP were going to be viable after Indy did you?

I think some folk pretend to dislike the snp but clearly their ardent defence of the snp on here suggests to me otherwise.

 

I don't think any of the parties (perhaps the Greens) are viable post Independence. Lab, Con, Lib are all unionist partisans and the snp are nationalists. None of them can continue in their current format post Indy.

 

If you look at the Rep. Of Ireland for example. Their economy has grown at a ridiculous rate of noughts since they've had a right of centre government. Something that perhaps would be beneficial to Scotland but it couldn't come under a party which is conflated by the same British Conservatism that exists at the moment. So i'd imagine a post indy Parliament would look very different. I'd hope so.

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18 hours ago, Jambo_Gaz said:

Wtf you on about. 

He is extolling the virtues of Phillipa Whitford and Tommy Sheppard, and stating that the SNP should do more to have they two in the public limelight.

 

I have to say I agree, especially around Whitford. She seems to be a cracking MP.

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Spitonastranger
2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

It will be my 4th "tourney" Deity worshipper. What about you? 

 

 

Deity worshipper,what you like, didnae answer the question though Boris Boy 

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Pans Jambo
52 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Are the polls relating to Indy and who is seen as the most favourable leader?

 

Clearly NS has shown good leadership, she's in front of the cameras everyday. So that doesn't surprise me if she is seen as 'more popular'.

 

I understand the polls for Indy are around 55% in favour but neither of those things are relevant to whether the SNP get a majority imo. That's based on a referendum question. 

 

I think some folk pretend to dislike the snp but clearly their ardent defence of the snp on here suggests to me otherwise.

 

I don't think any of the parties (perhaps the Greens) are viable post Independence. Lab, Con, Lib are all unionist partisans and the snp are nationalists. None of them can continue in their current format post Indy.

 

If you look at the Rep. Of Ireland for example. Their economy has grown at a ridiculous rate of noughts since they've had a right of centre government. Something that perhaps would be beneficial to Scotland but it couldn't come under a party which is conflated by the same British Conservatism that exists at the moment. So i'd imagine a post indy Parliament would look very different. I'd hope so.

The polls relate to independence. That's around 15 in a row all around 55% - 58%.

 

The thing is, the SNP have hammered home the message that they will only have an indy mandate for a 2nd referendum if the clear majority in the Scottish Parliament are from pro-indy parties. It will be in their manifesto and it's all they will sing from the rafters. There's only the SNP and the Greens so unless Labour start supporting the idea, I know where the 55% plus voters "X" will go on the ballot paper. The 45% will be split between the other 4 or 5 parties and therefore the majority of seats will go to the SNP.

 

It's happening.

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coconut doug
48 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Are the polls relating to Indy and who is seen as the most favourable leader?

 

Clearly NS has shown good leadership, she's in front of the cameras everyday. So that doesn't surprise me if she is seen as 'more popular'.

 

I understand the polls for Indy are around 55% in favour but neither of those things are relevant to whether the SNP get a majority imo. That's based on a referendum question. 

 

I think some folk pretend to dislike the snp but clearly their ardent defence of the snp on here suggests to me otherwise.

 

I don't think any of the parties (perhaps the Greens) are viable post Independence. Lab, Con, Lib are all unionist partisans and the snp are nationalists. None of them can continue in their current format post Indy.

 

If you look at the Rep. Of Ireland for example. Their economy has grown at a ridiculous rate of noughts since they've had a right of centre government. Something that perhaps would be beneficial to Scotland but it couldn't come under a party which is conflated by the same British Conservatism that exists at the moment. So i'd imagine a post indy Parliament would look very different. I'd hope so.

 

 I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with a lot of what you say but i do disagree with your take on whether or not the SNP get a majority and how that translates to Indy. Currently there is no prospect of Indy without the SNP whether we like it or not and many of us do not but i do understand your point for that reason and others.

 

  If the SNP are only going to accept a referendum if it is allowed by Westminster then they will never get my vote again. Westminster will never allow it no matter how frustrated the Scottish people become and sooner or later the SNP will become irrelevant. For some of us that point is already here. If they make the next election a vote for Indy then they will get my vote. I no longer feel the need for playing a waiting game especially as the many improvements we saw in the early years of SNP governments have been eroded. The SNP leadership tell us the pressure for a second referendum will be too great for the Tories to bear if they are returned with a majority but i don't think they care and if this is the point you are making then i agree. There are now many like us who will not vote SNP but still want Indy. The media and Unionists will equate declining support for the SNP as declining support for Indy. I don't want this to happen, what should i do? Unfortunately if you don't vote SNP there is a fair chance your vote will be seen as a vote against Indy.

 

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1 hour ago, Spitonastranger said:

Deity worshipper,what you like, didnae answer the question though Boris Boy 

Boris Boy 😂. That's the full set from the hate filled xenophobes 🙊

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1 hour ago, Spitonastranger said:

Deity worshipper,what you like, didnae answer the question though Boris Boy 

Was this what you pass off as a question? 

 

You know the 3500 are people who have not responded to calls or texts to them, but don't let that get in your way.

 

Looks like a statement to me muggy *****.

 

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The SNP is the only party to vote for if you want independence. I for one agree with most of what the snp do and also think NS is head and shoulders above any other political leader in the UK (not hard i know). After independence, NS will be prime minister of Scotland for one term before the snp disband into other real Scottish labour/Tory/liberal parties.

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