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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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55 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Boris Boy 😂. That's the full set from the hate filled xenophobes 🙊

 

Hate filled xenophobes 

:cornette:

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Spitonastranger
1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Was this what you pass off as a question? 

 

You know the 3500 are people who have not responded to calls or texts to them, but don't let that get in your way.

 

Looks like a statement to me muggy *****.

 

You are stooopid 

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Spitonastranger
1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

Was this what you pass off as a question? 

 

You know the 3500 are people who have not responded to calls or texts to them, but don't let that get in your way.

 

Looks like a statement to me muggy *****.

 

Still no responding Independence yesssssssdd

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Just now, Spitonastranger said:

You are stooopid 

Says the man who can't work out how to ask a question.

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Spitonastranger
1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

Says the man who can't work out how to ask a question.

Says someone who is dumb as a tory and deflects. Anyway I'm having  a  great Friday night listening to some ambient music,you go a block the borders. 

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Just now, Spitonastranger said:

Says someone who is dumb as a tory and deflects. Anyway I'm having  a  great Friday night listening to some ambient music,you go a block the 

You started the insults flag shagger. You got it wrong and now you're melting. Took you 5  ****ing minutes. 

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7 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So do I.

 

Grenfell

Windrush

Brexit mistruths

Paedophile investigations

Misappropriation

The list goes on...

 

Nobody accountable and no front page headlines either!

 

The tories are a party who have become the masters of distraction techiniques.  Most, if not all, of the things on your list have happened under the Tory government’s watch and they’ve somehow managed to convince enough people that all problems will be solved by leaving the EU. 

Edited by GinRummy
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Brighton Jambo
13 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The tories are a party who have become the masters of distraction techiniques.  Most, if not all, of the things on your list have happened under the Tory government’s watch and they’ve somehow managed to convince enough people that all problems will be solved by leaving the EU. 

There is a distinct irony to that post.  In a Scotland where the SNP have been in government for years we have seen:

 

- Falling education standards 

- Health targets missed 

- The hospitals fiasco, built and unusable

- The named person scheme

- inability to take ownership of powers on benefits

- The Alex Salmond investigation

 

All have happened on this governments watch and now they are trying to convince people things will all be better if we leave the United Kingdom.  

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3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

There is a distinct irony to that post.  In a Scotland where the SNP have been in government for years we have seen:

 

- Falling education standards 

- Health targets missed 

- The hospitals fiasco, built and unusable

- The named person scheme

- inability to take ownership of powers on benefits

- The Alex Salmond investigation

 

All have happened on this governments watch and now they are trying to convince people things will all be better if we leave the United Kingdom.  

I’m no snp fan. Whether we’ll be better or worse on leaving the Uk remains to be seen but Scotland is so far out of step with the Uk government it’s inevitable we will get independence. Universal credit and denying people a place to live in order to inflate house prices and keep the economy afloat are just two of the most disgusting Tory policies. 
 

Which one of us would run the country and ensure there weren’t enough houses for people to live in?

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Brighton Jambo
2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m no snp fan. Whether we’ll be better or worse on leaving the Uk remains to be seen but Scotland is so far out of step with the Uk government it’s inevitable we will get independence. Universal credit and denying people a place to live in order to inflate house prices and keep the economy afloat are just two of the most disgusting Tory policies. 
 

Which one of us would run the country and ensure there weren’t enough houses for people to live in?

Genuine question.  If there was a second referendum and the vote was No again, would you advocate pushing for a third referendum?

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Jambo_Gaz
3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

The polls relate to independence. That's around 15 in a row all around 55% - 58%.

 

The thing is, the SNP have hammered home the message that they will only have an indy mandate for a 2nd referendum if the clear majority in the Scottish Parliament are from pro-indy parties. It will be in their manifesto and it's all they will sing from the rafters. There's only the SNP and the Greens so unless Labour start supporting the idea, I know where the 55% plus voters "X" will go on the ballot paper. The 45% will be split between the other 4 or 5 parties and therefore the majority of seats will go to the SNP.

 

It's happening.

STV poll. Okay then. 

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2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Genuine question.  If there was a second referendum and the vote was No again, would you advocate pushing for a third referendum?

I never thought I’d advocate pushing for a second referendum and I now very much want one. So I suppose it depends on what happens in between. I’m not evading the question I just don’t know. 

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Brighton Jambo
1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I never thought I’d advocate pushing for a second referendum and I now very much want one. So I suppose it depends on what happens in between. I’m not evading the question I just don’t know. 

Fair enough.  I don’t want a second one but accept that democracy probably dictates there needs to be one at some point.  I think we do need an agreement before hand though that if it’s another no vote that is it for 20 years plus.  We can’t keep going like this.

 

If that commitment isn’t given I hope the UK government keeps saying no as it’s not right to just keep having them hoping one goes the way you want.  

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2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Fair enough.  I don’t want a second one but accept that democracy probably dictates there needs to be one at some point.  I think we do need an agreement before hand though that if it’s another no vote that is it for 20 years plus.  We can’t keep going like this.

 

If that commitment isn’t given I hope the UK government keeps saying no as it’s not right to just keep having them hoping one goes the way you want.  

I do agree there has to come a point where we just need to get on with it and stop pushing for another then another vote. Though I also think independence will happen at the next attempt.

Edited by GinRummy
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Brighton Jambo
1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I do agree there has to come a point where we just need to get on with it and stop pushing for another then another vote. Though I also think independence will happen at the next attempt.

I’m not so sure.  If BoJo is in number ten then I agree.  If not and depending on the outcome of Brexit I don’t think it’s cut and dried, especially if it was a labour government in Westminster.  
 

I still think despite recent polls it’s very much in the balance.  

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12 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Genuine question.  If there was a second referendum and the vote was No again, would you advocate pushing for a third referendum?

I'll always push for independence, the route is less important IMO

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Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

I’m not so sure.  If BoJo is in number ten then I agree.  If not and depending on the outcome of Brexit I don’t think it’s cut and dried, especially if it was a labour government in Westminster.  
 

I still think despite recent polls it’s very much in the balance.  

Yeah maybe, the actual vote for these types of things tends to swing towards the status quo in percentage terms but I think it’ll be a yes next time. 

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Brighton Jambo
Just now, Smithee said:

I'll always push for independence, the route is less important IMO

Which is fair enough.  I think what really worries people is that if there was a second referendum that went the way of No the next day the campaign for a third would start again.  And on and on we go.  
 

 

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Spitonastranger
57 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

You started the insults flag shagger. You got it wrong and now you're melting. Took you 5  ****ing minutes. 

Insults ha ha still no answering the 3500 

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jack D and coke
50 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Which is fair enough.  I think what really worries people is that if there was a second referendum that went the way of No the next day the campaign for a third would start again.  And on and on we go.  
 

 

Why does it worry you? You say you don’t want a second one that sounds like you didn’t want the first one and you just hope it’ll go away. That is why it won’t go away imo, the blatant and pig headed belief that nothing changed after the last one and to get over it and nonsense like that. A lot has changed and we have a right to decide what way we want to go. Also the claims about how many we have - we’ve had one in 313 years is that too many or something? Now we’re told it’s another 30-40 years until “we’re allowed” another one? Honestly that boils my water that kind of stuff. If an Independence Party put it in their election manifesto and win by a big margin then we shouid be able to have as many as we like and even to declare UDI, I wasn’t aware we were held under duress. By the same token I believe the same if a party wanted to re-enter the Union after we left and gained enough support then you’re not allowed to just say to people it’s not happening I’m not sure how anyone squares that argument at all. A sort of threatening do as your told and be quiet attitude, it gives the nationalist movement or any movement tbh everything it needs to build support yet no one seems to recognise this on the Union side. 
I voted Yes and likely would again but I wouldn’t lose my shit if it was No again either. I was quite happy to respect the No vote but saying that it was a once in a generation vote thing and lies like that only fuels the fires I can’t believe they don’t see what they’re doing. Either that or they’re incredibly stupid. The British government has no right saying you’ll not be doing this or that. We joined the Union freely I wasn’t aware it was an imprisonment that we have to ask for permission, again these things only empowers. If public opinion sways for us to leave the Union then they must get out of the way. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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46 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Which is fair enough.  I think what really worries people is that if there was a second referendum that went the way of No the next day the campaign for a third would start again.  And on and on we go.  

 

Yeah I get that, it must be frustrating as hell. The problem is that no matter how many Nos there are, the argument isn't going away. 

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Brighton Jambo
Just now, jack D and coke said:

Why does it worry you? You say you don’t want a second one that sounds like you didn’t want the first one and you just hope it’ll go away. That is why it won’t go away imo, the blatant and pig headed belief that nothing changed after the last one and to get over it and nonsense like that. A lot has changed and we have a right to decide what way we want to go. Also the claims about how many we have - we’ve had one in 313 years is that too many or something? Now we’re told it’s another 30-40 years until “we’re allowed” another one? Honestly that boils my water that kind of stuff. If an Independence Party put it in their election manifesto and win by a big margin then we shouid be able to have as many as we like and even to declare UDI I wasn’t aware we were held under duress. By the same town I believe the same if a party wanted to re-enter the Union after we left and gained enough support then you’re not allowed to just say to people it’s not happening I’m not sure how anyone squares that argument at all. A sort of threatening do as your told and be quiet attitude, it gives the nationalist movement or any movement tbh everything it needs to build support yet no one seems to recognise this on the Union side. 
I voted Yes and likely would again but I wouldn’t lose my shit if it was No again either. I was quite happy to respect the No vote but saying that it was a once in a generation vote thing and lies like that only fuels the fires I can’t believe they don’t see what they’re doing. Either that or they’re incredibly stupid. The British government has no right saying you’ll not be doing this or that. We joined the Union freely I wasn’t aware it was an imprisonment that we have to ask for permission, again these things only empowers. If public opinion sways for us to leave the Union then they must get out of the way. 

I said above that i think a second vote is democratically correct.

 

This going on and on does worry me as that’s not how referendums should work.  Just asking the same thing over and over again.  I accept that things have changed in regards to Brexit and so another referendum is justified.

 

However your view that if the first two return a no vote but we just keep going to me is worrying as this constitutional arguing divides the country so badly.  If the next one is no and assuming there is no massive change of circumstances again like Brexit (which seems unlikely) then that should be it.

 

 

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Brighton Jambo
3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Yeah I get that, it must be frustrating as hell. The problem is that no matter how many Nos there are, the argument isn't going away. 

Which makes the case for those not minded to grant another one stronger as it’s clear the outcome wouldn’t be respected and it wouldn’t actually settle anything.  

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jack D and coke
Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

I said above that i think a second vote is democratically correct.

 

This going on and on does worry me as that’s not how referendums should work.  Just asking the same thing over and over again.  I accept that things have changed in regards to Brexit and so another referendum is justified.

 

However your view that if the first two return a no vote but we just keep going to me is worrying as this constitutional arguing divides the country so badly.  If the next one is no and assuming there is no massive change of circumstances again like Brexit (which seems unlikely) then that should be it.

 

 

And tbh I think you’d find it would be in all

honesty. The argument would lose so much traction imo. 

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Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

I said above that i think a second vote is democratically correct.

 

This going on and on does worry me as that’s not how referendums should work.  Just asking the same thing over and over again.  I accept that things have changed in regards to Brexit and so another referendum is justified.

 

However your view that if the first two return a no vote but we just keep going to me is worrying as this constitutional arguing divides the country so badly.  If the next one is no and assuming there is no massive change of circumstances again like Brexit (which seems unlikely) then that should be it.

 

 

Who says its not how referendums should work?

It's democracy, there's an ongoing debate, things change, people change their mind.

Thats why we didn't just have one general election and stop.

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1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Which makes the case for those not minded to grant another one stronger as it’s clear the outcome wouldn’t be respected and it wouldn’t actually settle anything.  

Nonsense. The outcome of the last one was respected, we're still in the union.

If the next one says Leave, we leave and respect the outcome. 

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Brighton Jambo
Just now, Smithee said:

Who says its not how referendums should work?

It's democracy, there's an ongoing debate, things change, people change their mind.

Thats why we didn't just have one general election and stop.

There is no precedent I can think of anywhere where a constitutional question gets asked repeatedly by a referendum.  Take Canada, they had two votes on Quebec and then that was the end of that.  
 

I think where there are huge changes like Brexit then you can make the case but not for me every few years.

 

I don’t think the election thing is comparable.  You vote for a government knowing you can vote them out in five years.  You vote for independence then there’s no going back.  

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Brighton Jambo
3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Nonsense. The outcome of the last one was respected, we're still in the union.

If the next one says Leave, we leave and respect the outcome. 

What if the next one is no? 

Edited by Brighton Jambo
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Brighton Jambo
4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

And tbh I think you’d find it would be in all

honesty. The argument would lose so much traction imo. 

Agreed

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1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

There is no precedent I can think of anywhere where a constitutional question gets asked repeatedly by a referendum.  Take Canada, they had two votes on Quebec and then that was the end of that.  
 

I think where there are huge changes like Brexit then you can make the case but not for me every few years.

 

I don’t think the election thing is comparable.  You vote for a government knowing you can vote them out in five years.  You vote for independence then there’s no going back.  

If enough people wanted to go back then why not?

 

The subject isn't going away even if you can think of a million reasons it should.

 

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

What if the next one no? 

I don't know, I can't see into the future, I'll still want independence though.

Scotland's people should have the right to choose their government, and to change them when unhappy. Self determination is a basic right, we shouldn't be asking anyone's permission for anything.

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Brighton Jambo
8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

If enough people wanted to go back then why not?

 

The subject isn't going away even if you can think of a million reasons it should.

 

I don't know, I can't see into the future, I'll still want independence though.

Scotland's people should have the right to choose their government, and to change them when unhappy. Self determination is a basic right, we shouldn't be asking anyone's permission for anything.

Let’s agree to disagree, if there is a second referendum and the outcome is another no vote then I think it does go away in a meaningful way for many years.  I recognise there will be a hardcore who will never give it up but I think the case for having a third referendum would be so difficult to make viably assuming there’s no Brexit type constitutional change and I think the significant majority would want to move on without having the constitutional issues hanging over us indefinitely.  Even some ardent yes voters agree with that point as per Post above.  
 

 

Edited by Brighton Jambo
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1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Let’s agree to disagree, if there is a second referendum and the outcome is another no vote then I think it does go away in a meaningful way for many years.  I recognise there will be a hardcore who will never give it up but I think the case for having a third referendum would be so difficult to make viably assuming there’s no Brexit type constitutional change.   Even ardent yes voters agree with that point as per Post above.  

Fair enough, it's entirely academic anyway as the next referendum (if there is one) will be a Yes. 

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Brighton Jambo
5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Fair enough, it's entirely academic anyway as the next referendum (if there is one) will be a Yes. 

A debate for another day!  I am going to have a couple of Beers.  Enjoy your evening.  
 

p.s.  by going I mean to kitchen to drink with wife before anyone reports me! 

Edited by Brighton Jambo
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4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

A debate for another day!  I am going to have a couple of Beers.  Enjoy your evening.  
 

p.s.  by going I mean to kitchen to drink with wife before anyone reports me! 

👍

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manaliveits105

Latest yougov poll showing support for independence down 4 % to 51 % (6-10th Nov) - they’ve only gone and hibsed it big time 

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10 hours ago, Spitonastranger said:

Insults ha ha still no answering the 3500 

You didn't ask a question Tartan Tory boy. 

 

If a test and protect/trace system relies only on people answering their phone, emails or texts then its a not a system "working well" to quote your Deity. You send people out there and find the infected. 

 

If the govt. claims twice as many people are being contacted in 24 hours period than actually are being contacted, then the govt. has misled the people and the "error" excuse is laughable. Remember, the Nationalist party have been making political capital out of the Test and trace system in England for months, only to be caught fudging and failing on their own system. Its lamentable that the Scottish supremacist movement can't see through this, but you are the evidence that they can't.

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13 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Genuine question.  If there was a second referendum and the vote was No again, would you advocate pushing for a third referendum?

1 independence referendum in 313 years. The only reason the UK supporters would not want to go again is it'll be game over for them. 

 

 

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Roxy Hearts
13 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Latest yougov poll showing support for independence down 4 % to 51 % (6-10th Nov) - they’ve only gone and hibsed it big time 

As much as I want independence, I still don't think there's enough support for it. I'm only using my personal experience with family and friends. Some have moved to the independence camp and have been impressed with Nicola Sturgeon especially my wife and her friends but still get the feeling it's too loose.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

As much as I want independence, I still don't think there's enough support for it. I'm only using my personal experience with family and friends. Some have moved to the independence camp and have been impressed with Nicola Sturgeon especially my wife and her friends but still get the feeling it's too loose.

 

 

It would be interesting to see how the SNP would fare without Sturgeon.

 

As much as i can't stand her, she is an impressive orator. Watching John Swinney standing in for her in the daily briefing was painful. It's no wonder she barely let's anyone else do it. 

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Roxy Hearts
9 minutes ago, Fun Boaby said:

It would be interesting to see how the SNP would fare without Sturgeon.

 

As much as i can't stand her, she is an impressive orator. Watching John Swinney standing in for her in the daily briefing was painful. It's no wonder she barely let's anyone else do it. 

Don't really care who would take over as whomever it is would be superior to any unionist alternative.

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Governor Tarkin

 

We need more hate filled xenophobes imo.

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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13 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Don't really care who would take over as whomever it is would be superior to any unionist 

 If it meant support for independence wained, you wouldn't  care?

Edited by Fun Boaby
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Roxy Hearts
1 minute ago, Fun Boaby said:

 If support for independence wained, you wouldn't  care?

Don't care which person if not Sturgeon. I support independence regardless of personality.

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Governor Tarkin
Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Don't care which person if not Sturgeon. I support independence regardless of personality.

 

This attitude is worrying.

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Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

Don't care which person if not Sturgeon. I support independence regardless of personality.

And there will be  many like you,but what about those who are more fluid with their votes and may change to a unionist party? That would clearly hamper the Indy cause.

 

Of course, the opposite could be true too.

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Konrad von Carstein
Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

This attitude is worrying.

Why?

Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader.

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Roxy Hearts
4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Why?

Not looking for an argument, it's just his view is similar to mine in that I want independence and currently SNP are the only party supporting that so they get my vote regardless of leader.

Exactly. Unionists expect definitive answers for everything.

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Konrad von Carstein
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Exactly. Unionists expect definitive answers for everything.

 

 

We need less definitive answers imo 

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