The rise and fall of The SNP.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

I wouldn't say it is dead in the water..

 

Scottish Independence is closer now in the last 10-15 years than it has ever been in the last 314 years. That is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. 

 

All it takes is a Referendum to happen and more people to put a cross in the yes box than the no box. That might happen, it might not but I don't think you can ever suggest it is dead in the water while the SNP continue to win elections and polling over the last year has fluctuated quite evenly between yes and no.

 

It’ll be a no again . The country is in

a worse state that 2014 . The economy and current questions remain unanswered . Only thing which could possibly swing it would be the promise of rejoining Europe ! ( fantasy land really ) . It will be interesting about to see how it pans out . I’m a reluctant Yes but won’t be crying into me weetabix if it’s no , like the last time . It’s only silly lines on a map Ultimately and daft ideas about some groups of humans being somehow very much different from others . Kinda daft really  

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

It’ll be a no again . The country is in

a worse state that 2014 . The economy and current questions remain unanswered . Only thing which could possibly swing it would be the promise of rejoining Europe ! ( fantasy land really ) . It will be interesting about to see how it pans out . I’m a reluctant Yes but won’t be crying into me weetabix if it’s no , like the last time . It’s only silly lines on a map Ultimately and daft ideas about some groups of humans being somehow very much different from others . Kinda daft really  

Correct there should be less borders (we shouldnt have left the EU but we are where we are) not more borders - let people get on with their lives ffs .

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Correct there should be less borders (we shouldnt have left the EU but we are where we are) not more borders - let people get on with their lives ffs .

Leaving the EU has been a disaster in so many ways 

[Cruyff]

17 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’ll be a no again . The country is in

a worse state that 2014 . The economy and current questions remain unanswered . Only thing which could possibly swing it would be the promise of rejoining Europe ! ( fantasy land really ) . It will be interesting about to see how it pans out . I’m a reluctant Yes but won’t be crying into me weetabix if it’s no , like the last time . It’s only silly lines on a map Ultimately and daft ideas about some groups of humans being somehow very much different from others . Kinda daft really  

 

You're pro EU? and wish to re-join the EU for "freedom of movement" amongst other things I'd assume appeals to you because you don't believe in silly wee lines on a map. Yet, Scotland was forced to leave the EU because of the other country on the other side of the silly wee line on the map voted to leave the EU, due predominantly to cultural differences and values you don't believe exist. 

 

OK then. 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Cruyff

[Victorian]

26 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

decent amount of our money coming our way 👍

 

Portrayed as a grant as per usual.  

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Portrayed as a grant as per usual.  

Benevolent Tories handing crumbs to the peasants. 

[Cruyff]

45 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Decent amount coming our way. 

https://www.scotsman.com/business/budget-2021-live-rishi-sunak-delivers-budget-for-a-new-economy-focus-on-the-post-covid-era-inflation-was-31-in-september-3434396

 

Rishi Sunak said, through the Barnett formula, the UK Government’s decisions would increase Scottish Government funding “in each year by an average of £4.6 billion, Welsh Government funding by £2.5 billion, and £1.6 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive”.
The Chancellor told MPs: “This delivers, in real terms, the largest block grants for the devolved administrations since the devolution settlements of 1998.”

 

About time they started paying us reperations. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

You're pro EU? and wish to re-join the EU for "freedom of movement" amongst other things I'd assume appeals to you because you don't believe in silly wee lines on a map. Yet, Scotland was forced to leave the EU because of the other country on the other side of the silly wee line on the map voted to leave the EU, due predominantly to cultural differences and values you don't believe exist. 

 

OK then. 

 

We went into EU as the U.K. not Scotland so it was only right we left as the U.K. ? Surely . Besides there were a substantial amount of Scottish leave voters too . It was a referendum , tight call too but none the less we voted to leave . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Benevolent Tories handing crumbs to the peasants. 

True . People will fall for those bribes though . It’s almost a domestic abuse relationship . 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

About time they started paying us reperations. 

I make it a bit over 900 quid each. I'll have mine in Euros if everyone's cool with that

[Konrad von Carstein]

29 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Correct there should be less borders (we shouldnt have left the EU but we are where we are) not more borders - let people get on with their lives ffs .

By (re) joining the EU we will have less 27 less borders at a stroke.   Ecosse sans Frontiers! (except 1 )

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿☯️

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I make it a bit over 900 quid each. I'll have mine in Euros if everyone's cool with that

😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

By (re) joining the EU we will have less 27 less borders at a stroke.   Ecosse sans Frontiers! (except 1 )

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿☯️

Tres bien 

[Cruyff]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

We went into EU as the U.K. not Scotland so it was only right we left as the U.K. ? Surely . Besides there were a substantial amount of Scottish leave voters too . It was a referendum , tight call too but none the less we voted to leave . 

That's a cop out James and leaving the EU allowed them to ride roughshod and piss all over the devolution settlement, a settlement that exists because we are not one Country but 4 separate nations. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

That's a cop out James and leaving the EU allowed them to ride roughshod and piss all over the devolution settlement, a settlement that exists because we are not one Country but 4 separate nations. 

It’s a fact though . Like I said I wasn’t happy leaving the EU but what else could we do . It’s all the lomg standing Tory divisions which caused this . Only positive thing about it was it got shot of thatcher then major then Cameron . 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I think our first law should be renaming chips to Freedom Fries with a mandatory 5 year sentence for those who don't cheerfully comply. Plus, all businesses must fly a saltire, and only a saltire, and anyone who complains has to have one painted on their car and do border patrol for a week.

 

🤣

 

Is that to help stop folks from getting in or to stop them leaving?

[Japan Jambo]

45 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Aye yer arse, it's fair comment with that bag of Westminster shysters

 

hate to agree with you but the devil is almost always in the detail (that's for the entire shower of them mind, all shapes and colours)

[Cruyff]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

It’s a fact though . Like I said I wasn’t happy leaving the EU but what else could we do . It’s all the lomg standing Tory divisions which caused this . Only positive thing about it was it got shot of thatcher then major then Cameron . 

Can't you see James? That's the whole point in being an Independent Country, so we aren't forced to have a government we didn't vote for, a Bill to leave the EU that the MP's that we voted in, voted against and a Referendum on that bill that was rejected by 60 odd % of Scots. It's undemocratic is what it is. 

[pablo]

40 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

You're pro EU? and wish to re-join the EU for "freedom of movement" amongst other things I'd assume appeals to you because you don't believe in silly wee lines on a map. Yet, Scotland was forced to leave the EU because of the other country on the other side of the silly wee line on the map voted to leave the EU, due predominantly to cultural differences and values you don't believe exist. 

 

OK then. 

 

 

No, the UK joined as one and left as one. Other devolved regions of the UK such as London and Manchester also voted in favour of Remain and are no longer part of the EU either. It was a UK vote. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

Can't you see James? That's the whole point in being an Independent Country, so we aren't forced to have a government we didn't vote for, a Bill to leave the EU that the MP's that we voted in, voted against and a Referendum on that bill that was rejected by 60 odd % of Scots. It's undemocratic is what it is. 

Yes  I know all that . The Scottish people as a majority voted to stay but as a majority the U.K. didn’t . It’s unfair . Ofcourse it is . But that’s how it was . I don’t want a re join EU as a main policy for any new Indy campaign  . Yes it can be part of the SNP manifesto for it but it shouldn’t be a motivator for people to vote yes . The ref should be about independence and all the positives of that ( making amd owning our own decisions and policies) in fact I think it might be a vote loser as there is a substantial amount of anti EU SNP supporters so it’s important not to alienate them S the yes need as many votes as possible . A ref About re joining the EU is the only fair option . 

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

No, the UK joined as one and left as one. Other devolved regions of the UK such as London and Manchester also voted in favour of Remain and are no longer part of the EU either. It was a UK vote. 

🎣

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes  I know all that . The Scottish people as a majority voted to stay but as a majority the U.K. didn’t . It’s unfair . Ofcourse it is . But that’s how it was . I don’t want a re join EU as a main policy for any new Indy campaign  . Yes it can be part of the SNP manifesto for it but it shouldn’t be a motivator for people to vote yes . The ref should be about independence and all the positives of that ( making amd owning our own decisions and policies) in fact I think it might be a vote loser as there is a substantial amount of anti EU SNP supporters so it’s important not to alienate them S the yes need as many votes as possible . A ref About re joining the EU is the only fair option . 

I certainly agree with that. If Scotland ever becomes Independent, there should be a Referendum, if it is wanted, to re-join the EU. 

[pablo]

Just now, Cruyff said:

🎣

 

Not at all. Which bit of that isn't true? There's no democratic system that will deliver everyone within it, the government or result they vote for. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, pablo said:

 

Not at all. Which bit of that isn't true? There's no democratic system that will deliver everyone within it, the government or result they vote for. 

Definitely. Which bits not true? The bit where you try to suggest that Scotland is a region, much like Manchester and London. Don’t talk shite Pablo. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I certainly agree with that. If Scotland ever becomes Independent, there should be a Referendum, if it is wanted, to re-join the EU. 

Yep ! And ASAP really 

[Dazo]

3 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Are we clear of the pandemic yet?

Rhetorical question day ? 
 

Not sure it matters with the current snp hierarchy. They don’t want to or are unable to deliver it. 

[pablo]

Just now, Cruyff said:

Definitely. Which bits not true? The bit where you try to suggest that Scotland is a region, much like Manchester and London. Don’t talk shite Pablo. 

 

But the Scottish Government is a devolved local government within the UK, the same as Manchester and London. Of course Scotland itself is a country. 

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

I wouldn't say it is dead in the water..

 

Scottish Independence is closer now in the last 10-15 years than it has ever been in the last 314 years. That is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. 

 

All it takes is a Referendum to happen and more people to put a cross in the yes box than the no box. That might happen, it might not but I don't think you can ever suggest it is dead in the water while the SNP continue to win elections and polling over the last year has fluctuated quite evenly between yes and no.

 

Currently it is, imo of course because there is no sign of a referendum. So the all it takes isn’t even a thing yet never mind actually the yes vote coming out on top. I think the snp have missed the opportunity to be a great devolved government that would have swung it for pro independence. 

[Cruyff]

Just now, pablo said:

 

But the Scottish Government is a devolved local government within the UK, the same as Manchester and London. Of course Scotland itself is a country. 

Keep digging. 

[Cruyff]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Currently it is, imo of course because there is no sign of a referendum. So the all it takes isn’t even a thing yet never mind actually the yes vote coming out on top. I think the snp have missed the opportunity to be a great devolved government that would have swung it for pro independence. 

Ok, fair enough this parliament it does look like it would be a squeeze to set that in motion, which is probably due to covid-19 and yep, I agree that they haven't done themselves any favours in government when it comes to things like education. I personally don't think the Murrells support Independence and they have so much control of the party now that they can keep kicking the can down the road to stay in power. I think they know if Independence happened then the SNP are no longer required as a political party and they become irrelevant. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

16 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Rhetorical question day ? 
 

Not sure it matters with the current snp hierarchy. They don’t want to or are unable to deliver it. 

Not rhetorical at all... SNP have consistently said coming out of the pandemic is priority... Easy enough to understand surely?

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Ok, fair enough this parliament it does look like it would be a squeeze to set that in motion, which is probably due to covid-19 and yep, I agree that they haven't done themselves any favours in government when it comes to things like education. I personally don't think the Murrells support Independence and they have so much control of the party now that they can keep kicking the can down the road to stay in power. I think they know if Independence happened then the SNP are no longer required as a political party and they become irrelevant. 

Absolutely agree and was really my point when I first quoted you. They’ve blown and there is no one in the shadows strong enough to take them on. Personally I’m delighted. 😂

[Japan Jambo]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/mp-margaret-ferrier-in-court-accused-of-breaching-coronavirus-regulations-3434233

 

The law acts too slowly with this stuff - she should have ben hung from a lamp post there and then 'pour encourage les autres'... 

[Dazo]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Not rhetorical at all... SNP have consistently said coming out of the pandemic is priority... Easy enough to understand surely?

Best she ups her game and gets on with that then. 👍

[Don Dan]

Are these ferries we are struggling to build finished yet? 
New Ferry built in the Philippines arrive in the Canaries.  
https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/fred-olsen-new-trimaran-arrives

 

The ship, built by Austal in the Philippines, set sail for the Canary Islands on October 7th, and has crossed three seas and two oceans on its journey, a journey that has been followed in real-time through the company's website: https://www.fredolsen.es/es

[pablo]

20 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Keep digging. 

 

What? Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less true. 

[Roxy Hearts]

26 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

But the Scottish Government is a devolved local government within the UK, the same as Manchester and London. Of course Scotland itself is a country. 

What's England? A region too?

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Ok, fair enough this parliament it does look like it would be a squeeze to set that in motion, which is probably due to covid-19 and yep, I agree that they haven't done themselves any favours in government when it comes to things like education. I personally don't think the Murrells support Independence and they have so much control of the party now that they can keep kicking the can down the road to stay in power. I think they know if Independence happened then the SNP are no longer required as a political party and they become irrelevant. 

Agreed 

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Best she ups her game and gets on with that then. 👍

Yes let’s have another one ASAP settle it again and ensure that’s agreed that there is no ref again for a good few years . No Wooly language like “ once in a generation “ 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Decent amount coming our way. 

https://www.scotsman.com/business/budget-2021-live-rishi-sunak-delivers-budget-for-a-new-economy-focus-on-the-post-covid-era-inflation-was-31-in-september-3434396

 

Rishi Sunak said, through the Barnett formula, the UK Government’s decisions would increase Scottish Government funding “in each year by an average of £4.6 billion, Welsh Government funding by £2.5 billion, and £1.6 billion for the Northern Ireland Executive”.
The Chancellor told MPs: “This delivers, in real terms, the largest block grants for the devolved administrations since the devolution settlements of 1998.”

 

Oh goody, more of our own money. 

[Japan Jambo]

24 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Oh goody, more of our own money. 

 

the reality is England effectively subsidizes the other three home nations...

 

this short article explains it succinctly;

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/fiscal-position-four-nations

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Japan Jambo

[Cruyff]

25 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

What? Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less true. 

Aye OK, Scotland is just a region of England, like Manchester. Very good. 

[manaliveits105]

15 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

the reality is England effectively subsidizes the other three home nations...

 

this short article explains it succinctly;

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/fiscal-position-four-nations

 

 

Careful - they dont deal in reality in Brigadoon 

[pablo]

23 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Aye OK, Scotland is just a region of England, like Manchester. Very good. 

 

The SG is a devolved administration of the UK. So is Greater Manchester and other areas. New powers and responsibilities were devolved from Westminster to the devolved administrations.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland isn't a country or that it's a region of England. 

[Pans Jambo]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I think our first law should be renaming chips to Freedom Fries with a mandatory 5 year sentence for those who don't cheerfully comply. Plus, all businesses must fly a saltire, and only a saltire, and anyone who complains has to have one painted on their car and do border patrol for a week.

Make it so...

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

the reality is England effectively subsidizes the other three home nations...

 

this short article explains it succinctly;

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/fiscal-position-four-nations

 

 

Ok. Can you show me Englands equivalent to GERS please? Oh wait there isn’t one…how’s that?
16% of the UK Population is responsible for 80% of the deficit apparently…

We wanted out the Eu to save £350m a week yet they send that here for our ungrateful arses and prop us up? 
None of that makes you think no? 
The defence secretary said yesterday that Scotland would not get use of the army in future for economic decisions  so England can use the army whenever but we’ll be getting told to bolt in future?!? This is after the nonsense that no country in this union of equals could lock down either until England had to. This is equal? We get what we’re given and we’ll do what we’re told it seems. 
 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

the reality is England effectively subsidizes the other three home nations...

 

this short article explains it succinctly;

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/fiscal-position-four-nations

 

 

Not sure about that! Is this one of those "independent" financial bodies that Westminster wheel out or Westminster itself? How on earth can England subsidise anyone with its 2 trillion debt? Who subsidizes it and why do Westminster fight so hard to keep Scotland shackled to it?

[Cruyff]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

The SG is a devolved administration of the UK. So is Greater Manchester and other areas. New powers and responsibilities were devolved from Westminster to the devolved administrations.

 

I'm not saying that Scotland isn't a country or that it's a region of England. 

You tried to suggest the London and Manchester voting against leaving the EU is the same as Scotland because it has some devolved powers. I know you were being facetious and looking for bites because if you weren't, you wouldn't have even posted it because you know fine and well that it isn't the same thing. 

[pablo]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

You tried to suggest the London and Manchester voting against leaving the EU is the same as Scotland because it has some devolved powers. I know you were being facetious and looking for bites because if you weren't, you wouldn't have even posted it because you know fine and well that it isn't the same thing. 

 

You're absolutely wrong so that probably explains why it's only you who has "bitten"

 

My original point was that it was not a Scottish vote, it was a UK one about a UK matter and that Scotland was not the only part of the UK to vote Remain. We joined as one county and left as one county. 

 

 

[Cruyff]

Just now, pablo said:

 

You're absolutely wrong so that probably explains why it's only you who has "bitten"

 

My original point was that it was not a Scottish vote, it was a UK one about a UK matter and that Scotland was not the only part of the UK to vote Remain. We joined as one county and left as one county. 

 

 

Why did you not just post that then?

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, XB52 said:

Exactly. No matter how many times the SG repeat that the independence campaign will only start for real once the pandemic is fully under control, the unionists and Alba refuse to listen. 

Also the unionists say that, as well as not pushing for independence, the SG never stop going on about it. They can't have it both ways

Maybe because most of what comes out of the SG is either lies or complete and utter pish.