The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, henryheart said:

 

I'm not into playing games, I'm just stating a fact. Some people are happy to be part of the UK and accept the decisions of the party voted in by the majority of UK voters, whether they agree with the party in power or not because they are happy to be considered British. Others like you do not, which is fair enough as you are perfectly entitled to your view.  

👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 minutes ago, Boab said:

That's democracy right there !

It's a fluid thing though. There should be another vote on Indy. If it is rejected again, then we carry on. Whether people believe politicians' promises is another thing of course. Voting the last time, there was a promise we would stay in the EU. Look how that turned out. 

Probably explains why the Nats are still strong. 

That is factually incorrect.  Nobody PROMISED we would stay in the EU. We were told we would be out the EU if we voted Leave but we all knew a Brexit referendum was going to be pledged in the Tory manifesto of 2015.

[jack D and coke]

35 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

....and others will be comfortable with the British electorate, which includes every voter in Scotland, making decisions.

So you’re a Tory brexiteer? 
Nothing wrong with that but it’s fair game for others to have a pop at it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That is factually incorrect.  Nobody PROMISED we would stay in the EU. We were told we would be out the EU if we voted Leave but we all knew a Brexit referendum was going to be pledged in the Tory manifesto of 2015.

Correct . And the 2014 was about independence for Scotland . It was not mean to be get side lined by the EU issue . But it did . 

[scott herbertson]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=323521898313669

 

 

[Unknown user]

58 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

....and others will be comfortable with the British electorate, which includes every voter in Scotland, making decisions.

 

It does include every voter in Scotland, but what they want doesn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Impotence, not for me thanks

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Exports to England, Wales and Northern Ireland rose £2.5 billion, to £52 billion, in 2019. Meanwhile, trade with the EU also grew but at a slower pace, increasing by just £420 million to £16.4 billion.

 

I think I know which Union I would prefer to be in. 

[Unknown user]

You have to be wary talking about The People and what they want, but Scotland doesn't want a Tory government.

We've said it time and time again, literally for decades. 

 

And here we are.

[Boab]

31 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That is factually incorrect.  Nobody PROMISED we would stay in the EU. We were told we would be out the EU if we voted Leave but we all knew a Brexit referendum was going to be pledged in the Tory manifesto of 2015.

I'm talking pre-Indy Ref in 2014, Enzo.

The Better Together campaign made a big song and dance about Scotland's place in the EU if a yes vote was returned. Simply, Scotland's place in the EU would be in jeopardy if we voted yes. A major factor in the way the vote went IMO.

The SNP's continued success at the polls is, again IMO, a direct result of people realising we were duped.

The voting in the Brexit Ref in Scotland backs that up also.

[Mars plastic]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

You have to be wary talking about The People and what they want, but Scotland doesn't want a Tory government.

We've said it time and time again, literally for decades. 

 

And here we are.

That's correct, it has an SNP government in the Shortbread Senate.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

That's correct, it has an SNP government in the Shortbread Senate.

 

Support independence to change it

[Mars plastic]

Anyways, when does the campaigning start for this referendum in 2023?

[Mars plastic]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Support independence to change it

I can't support independence as I'd rather have a few quid in my pocket as I move into the later stages of life.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

I can't support independence as I'd rather have a few quid in my pocket as I move into the later stages of life.

 

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Can you imagine Big Bird and the boy from 10 Rillington Place in charge of an independent Scotland?! 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Can you imagine Big Bird and the boy from 10 Rillington Place in charge of an independent Scotland?! 

 

Can you imagine tweedleboris in charge of the UK??

 

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Can you imagine tweedleboris in charge of the UK??

 

There's exponentially more incompetence in the SNP cabinet than their Tory counterparts. Middle management roles in the private sector at best awaits all of them after they leave government, although I suspect the Bute House rat will be coveting a job in Brussels. 

[Don Dan]

Just received this though the letter box. It will be interesting to see the results of the survey (if they dare do publish it) 

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

There's exponentially more incompetence in the SNP cabinet than their Tory counterparts. Middle management roles in the private sector at best awaits all of them after they leave government, although I suspect the Bute House rat will be coveting a job in Brussels. 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I'm certainly happy Scottish councils are going directly to WM for levelling up funding and infrastructure investment. It's the only way to get things done. Cuts out the ideoligical treacle that is the SNP

I read the article. There's lots of 'could' and 'set to'  and very little substance.

 

Lets see just how much of the £4.8bn levelling up fund (I don't believe that there is anything close to £4.8bn of new money on offer here) actually  makes it to Scottish Councils.

 

As for the 'only way to get things done' nonsense? I'm sure you actually believe that. I genuinely do. 

 

[Mars plastic]

16 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Just received this though the letter box. It will be interesting to see the results of the survey (if they dare do publish it) 

The answer box for Q1 is way too big just as the box for Q2 is way too small.

[Herbert.]

11 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Any nude pics?

 

 

Would you want to see them?

[manaliveits105]

4 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

The answer box for Q1 is way too big just as the box for Q2 is way too small.

They have been going out for months - how many trees have they gone through in the run up to COP 26 ? 

only the cult will respond of course 

[Mars plastic]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

They have been going out for months - how many trees have they gone through in the run up to COP 26 ? 

only the cult will respond of course 

WE GEE MARE TAE ENGLUND THAN WE GET BACK!!! GEE US OOR FREEEEEEEDUMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

[Boab]

35 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

There's exponentially more incompetence in the SNP cabinet than their Tory counterparts. Middle management roles in the private sector at best awaits all of them after they leave government, although I suspect the Bute House rat will be coveting a job in Brussels. 

I actually agree with this.

Of course, that's coming from an opinion that their Tory counterparts know exactly what they are are doing and are, essentially, crooks !

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

That's democracy right there !

It's a fluid thing though. There should be another vote on Indy. If it is rejected again, then we carry on. Whether people believe politicians' promises is another thing of course. Voting the last time, there was a promise we would stay in the EU. Look how that turned out. 

Probably explains why the Nats are still strong. 

 

Why should there be another referendum? How does winning an election for one parliament give a mandate for something another parliament has control over?

 

We could have local councils deciding to reintroduce the death penalty following that logic.

[The Mighty Thor]

Aye Aye. Full moon?

 

The boys are all out today and the old favourites are getting a good airing, The Krankies, Freedum, the shortbread senate.

 

Bantz.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Why should there be another referendum? How does winning an election for one parliament give a mandate for something another parliament has control over?

 

We could have local councils deciding to reintroduce the death penalty following that logic.

Because some of the stuff they used to win it they haven’t kept their word with. The carbon capture sites being just another example. 

Sir Ian Wood has heavily criticised the snubbing of that site. Just as well he’s already got his knighthood I guess. 

Ask yourself if the oil was coming in at Portsmouth and all the expertise and infrastructure was there they’d award the sites up here? Would it aw be running oot if it was down there?
This site was promised after 2014. The fact they didn’t even tell the Scottish leader it wasn’t happening is almost funny. 
But not really. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Why should there be another referendum? How does winning an election for one parliament give a mandate for something another parliament has control over?

 

We could have local councils deciding to reintroduce the death penalty following that logic.

 

Because the issue's not decided, a sizeable portion of people in this country want it.

 

The representation rules mean that it doesn't matter what Scotland thinks, but that's not an end of it, that's the start of it.

[pablo]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Because some of the stuff they used to win it they haven’t kept their word with. The carbon capture sites being just another example. 

Sir Ian Wood has heavily criticised the snubbing of that site. Just as well he’s already got his knighthood I guess. 

Ask yourself if the oil was coming in at Portsmouth and all the expertise and infrastructure was there they’d award the sites up here? Would it aw be running oot if it was down there?
This site was promised after 2014. The fact they didn’t even tell the Scottish leader it wasn’t happening is almost funny. 
But not really. 

 

Okay........

 

But why would winning a local government election give a mandate on the future of a sovereign state? It doesn't and never will. 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Because the issue's not decided, a sizeable portion of people in this country want it.

 

The representation rules mean that it doesn't matter what Scotland thinks, but that's not an end of it, that's the start of it.

 

The issue was decided in 2014. There will only be another referendum if our Westminster parliament grants one. When,  if ever that happens I wouldn't know. I'd have thought until the SNP could form a coalition government with Labour at Westminster, it's out of reach. 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Okay........

 

But why would winning a local government election give a mandate on the future of a sovereign state? It doesn't and never will. 

By that logic, there shouldn't have been a referendum in 2014. There was though because the mandate was there to have one. 

[OmiyaHearts]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The issue was decided in 2014. There will only be another referendum if our Westminster parliament grants one. When,  if ever that happens I wouldn't know. I'd have thought until the SNP could form a coalition government with Labour at Westminster, it's out of reach. 

Wasn't the issue decided in 1707, when the union was formed?
 

Why should the  Scots be given any opportunity to vote on leaving a union of equals?

[Unknown user]

Just now, pablo said:

 

The issue was decided in 2014. There will only be another referendum if our Westminster parliament grants one. When,  if ever that happens I wouldn't know. I'd have thought until the SNP could form a coalition government with Labour at Westminster, it's out of reach. 

 

We had a vote in 2014 certainly. That doesn't mean it's gone away though I'm afraid.

 

And harping on about how the rules don't allow it, only emphasise what shitty rules we live under.

 

Who would England ask for permission to have an independence referendum?

 

[Unknown user]

Just now, jonesy said:

So if ‘yes’ had won by 55/45 would you have suggested the issue hadn’t been decided? What margin of victory would indicate a clear and decisive vote?

 

I'd be perfectly happy keeping the conversation going after independence, the people are sovereign and should be heard

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Okay........

 

But why would winning a local government election give a mandate on the future of a sovereign state? It doesn't and never will. 

It’s called democracy surely. It’s a creeper over time. They know they can’t keep stopping democracy eventually getting this done. They have to hope by telling us we’re hopeless without them we’ll possibly pipe down. 
And tbh the biggest con trick they’ve ever pulled is the one when we now believe we need permission. 
If the numbers say (which possibly they don’t atm granted) then it can’t be stopped. It won’t look good. 
 

[pablo]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

We had a vote in 2014 certainly. That doesn't mean it's gone away though I'm afraid.

 

And harping on about how the rules don't allow it, only emphasise what shitty rules we live under.

 

Who would England ask for permission to have an independence referendum?

 

 

England or one of the other devolved governments like Manchester or London? That's what the Scottish government is, no different to any other devolved local government within the UK. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Wasn't the issue decided in 1707, when the union was formed?
 

Why should the  Scots be given any opportunity to vote on leaving a union of equals?

If we can join voluntarily then we can decide to leave again. It’s not till death do us part imo. 
I believe one day England will see a rise of their own parties. It’s already started in some parts. They hear all the people saying we’re skint and get more than we should.  It’s a matter of time imo. 
 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Just received this though the letter box. It will be interesting to see the results of the survey (if they dare do publish it) 

 

It's very loaded in its wording...but that's okay and hopefully it works.

[pablo]

10 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Wasn't the issue decided in 1707, when the union was formed?
 

Why should the  Scots be given any opportunity to vote on leaving a union of equals?

 

Yes I agree. The UK is sovereign. It is not a loose collection of four countries with an opt out clause.

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Yes I agree. The UK is sovereign. It is not a loose collection of four countries with an opt out clause.

What can I say…but it does. 

I do personally like the say No attitude of the British govt though. Appointing no marks as lords and into the Scottish office is also the fuel it all needs. 
The young ones only know a Scottish govt. it’s just a matter of time. 

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You dodge the question like a politician, Schmidt. What should be the required margin for a decisive vote?

 

I'd say the question you asked was that of a politician TBF.

 

I didn't say there wasn't a deciding result on the night, but the very fact that SNP are still getting voted in, that there's continued Tory governments doing things that the Scottish electorate don't want, that there have been such massive material changes since then, show that the issue hasn't been decided.

 

It isn't about a number in 2014, that's why I didn't answer.

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

England or one of the other devolved governments like Manchester or London? That's what the Scottish government is, no different to any other devolved local government within the UK. 

 

 

England.

You know that bit where they kick the

Scottish MPs out because they're governing England? Who do those guys ask?

[Boab]

26 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You dodge the question like a politician, Schmidt. What should be the required margin for a decisive vote?

If we can use the Brexit Ref as an example, any majority.

That was a lot tighter than the Indy Ref and we are now out of the EU.

I would trust that lot down south as far as I could throw them so no doubt they would change the rules !

[jack D and coke]

If I was an uncle tam I’d be glad to get indyref2 done and dusted fairly soon while there’s a good chance they win again. 
Leave it few years and the demographics keep going towards freeeeeedom and then as begbie said…the gemme was mine☺️

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Okay........

 

But why would winning a local government election give a mandate on the future of a sovereign state? It doesn't and never will. 

Local government election? Do you mean an election to Edinburgh City Council or an election to the Scottish Parliament?

 

If you mean the latter then you're displaying a staggering level of ignorance. 

[scott herbertson]

1 hour ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Wasn't the issue decided in 1707, when the union was formed?
 

Why should the  Scots be given any opportunity to vote on leaving a union of equals?

 

56 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Yes I agree. The UK is sovereign. It is not a loose collection of four countries with an opt out clause.

 

So that's the divorce laws repealed then?

 

A union of equals can be dissolved by either of the equals should they so wish. If one party to a union refuses to let the other one decide if it wants to leave it's not really a union of equals is it?

[XB52]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

So if ‘yes’ had won by 55/45 would you have suggested the issue hadn’t been decided? What margin of victory would indicate a clear and decisive vote?

Democracy says equal +1 wins. If yes had won by 55/45 it would have won independence. Any unhappy unionists would be quite within their rights to agitate for another referendum to rejoin. 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Oh ffs, not again.🤣🤣

Yes, yeah, sure, course it is.

 

Really impressive that magic, elastic money that we raise in Scotland. £66bn raised here stretches to a budget of £91bn and, apparently,  would you believe it, covers furlough, capital expenditure from the UK on upgrading arterial roads and other infrastructure projects.

It would have stretched even further had the Scot Gov not rejected YET MORE UK funding in freeports. 

Refusing the funding and calling them "Green"ports in a nod to their Marxist colleagues in Govt and their core vote in Kerrydale St.🤣🤣🤣

Westminster has a magic money tree right enough 🤣. Not sure what Kerrydale Street's got to do with it! I'm a Heart of Midlothian fan, what about you? Sevco? 

[XB52]

5 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Westminster has a magic money tree right enough 🤣. Not sure what Kerrydale Street's got to do with it! I'm a Heart of Midlothian fan, what about you? Sevco? 

It's so sad isn't it. Not got a clue so resort to childish name calling or the old tartan ira shite.