The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Coloured it in myself!

 

If you want to play dumb you can't complain when you get treated the same, it's basic astronomy.

If you voted for independence you voted to leave the EU. What bit of that presents a problem for you?

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Not enough folk in Scotland give a toss about being in Europe or not, hence why a third of the electorate didn’t bother to vote. 
 

independence is dead and the polls show it. Time to put the tartan Kleenex away and get on with getting on. 

 

Not enough did then, bet they do now.

 

[pablo]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

If you voted for independence you voted to leave the EU. What bit of that presents a problem for you?

 

It's a tricky one for some, but you're right. If Yes had won in 2014, Scotland would have been out of the EU before Britain was. 

[Mars plastic]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Not enough did then, bet they do now.

 

Judging by the age of the folk who attended the recent, ahem, independence rallies they’ll all be broon breed by the time Scotland was invited into the EU cabal, should we ever become independent. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Leaving the UK does not mean joining the EU; you have to be accepted in. Will Spain block it? Will we able to join when we cannot meet the financial conditions and will be at least 10 years post independence before we can?  For a thicko like me I'd appreciate some answers. 

 

I didn't say anything about joining the EU, I'm complaining about the democratic defecit in Scotland and being dragged about like an unwanted dog.

[Mars plastic]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

I didn't say anything about joining the EU, I'm complaining about the democratic defecit in Scotland and being dragged about like an unwanted dog.

Unfortunately for you, the majority want to be ‘dragged about like an unwanted dog’. Democracy eh?

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I'd imagine it's the logic part.

 

Bit snidey jonesy

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Unfortunately for you, the majority want to be ‘dragged about like an unwanted dog’. Democracy eh?

 

Or at least they did a few years ago

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

I didn't say anything about joining the EU, I'm complaining about the democratic defecit in Scotland and being dragged about like an unwanted dog.

 

The other view is there is no democratic deficit. You could argue we have a democratic surplus given we're over represented at Westminster and have two Governments. You'll never find a system where everyone wins, otherwise Shetland would have a Libdem government etc. Seeing everything through a them and us Nationalist lens is a minority view, albeit a noisy one which holds Scotland back.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

The other view is there is no democratic deficit. You could argue we have a democratic surplus given we're over represented at Westminster and have two Governments. You'll never find a system where everyone wins, otherwise Shetland would have a Libdem government etc. Seeing everything through a them and us Nationalist lens is a minority view, albeit a noisy one which holds Scotland back.

 

Yeah but that's nonsense

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Or at least they did a few years ago

Best you check the polls then, they still do. If a referendum was voted on tomorrow the margin for no would be bigger then it was in 2014.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

Best you check the polls then, they still do. If a referendum was voted on tomorrow the margin for no would be bigger then it was in 2014.

 

Let's do it

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

I appreciate that if you are a keen Nationalist and you loath the UK with a passion, which you clearly do, then you will not care. You are perfectly entitled to think this way. On the other hand, some of us are not impressed by Sturgeon and her crowd who make a  commitment, go back on it, and then spend the next decade or so committing so much hot air to this that ship that has sailed that they forget to run the economy, education and heath services.   

 

Can Scotland manage its own affairs? Yes, but even John Swinney has alluded to a very challenging decade or more should Scotland be independent. That is the crux of the matter. Some people want to walk around proclaiming themselves as proud Scots and/or as anti English/British and see an independent Scotland as a means to this. Whatever floats your boat. On the other hand there are Scots who are not so partisan and who quietly want the opportunity to be able to live a life free of austerity forced on them simply for the sake of being able to say that Scotland is independent of England.   

 

    

I should have said l loathe UK politics with a passion. I like the UK and its people, I don't want to be governed by Westminster. 

 

Being a keen nationalist just means I believe in the Scottish nation. You're also one(Britnat) but you believe more in the British nation and nothing wrong with that. 

 

Being independent from England isn't the reason I want independence. It's to govern ourselves and not blame anyone,  especially the English people and to get the governments we vote for.

[Mars plastic]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Let's do it

See you at the booth in the morning. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

I should have said l loathe UK politics with a passion. I like the UK and its people, I don't want to be governed by Westminster. 

 

Being a keen nationalist just means I believe in the Scottish nation. You're also one(Britnat) but you believe more in the British nation and nothing wrong with that. 

 

Being independent from England isn't the reason I want independence. It's to govern ourselves and not blame anyone,  especially the English people and to get the governments we vote for.

 

Exactly, I only talk about England because it's their electorate that are able to decide our future and it shouldn't be like that

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Mars plastic said:

Nurse, nurse!!!

Why you calling for a nurse? Something wrong with you?

[Roxy Hearts]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Exactly, I only talk about England because it's their electorate that are able to decide our future and it shouldn't be like that

👍

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I should have said l loathe UK politics with a passion. I like the UK and its people, I don't want to be governed by Westminster. 

 

Being a keen nationalist just means I believe in the Scottish nation. You're also one(Britnat) but you believe more in the British nation and nothing wrong with that. 

 

Being independent from England isn't the reason I want independence. It's to govern ourselves and not blame anyone,  especially the English people and to get the governments we vote for.

Had Sturgeon and co. made a better fist of being in government since 2007 they’d have had many more of the electorate on their side, thus increasing the chance of being independent.
 

As it’s turned out, everything they touch turns to utter shite and as a consequence the majority of people wouldn't trust them to run their local Spar, let alone an independent Scotland.  

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Mars plastic said:

Had Sturgeon and co. made a better fist of being in government since 2007 they’d have had many more of the electorate on their side, thus increasing the chance of being independent.
 

As it’s turned out, everything they touch turns to utter shite and as a consequence the majority of people wouldn't trust them to run their local Spar, let alone an independent Scotland.  

 

Yeah I wouldn't vote for her in an independent Scotland

[henryheart]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I didn't say anything about joining the EU, I'm complaining about the democratic defecit in Scotland and being dragged about like an unwanted dog.

 

Thanks for clarifying. It appears that I've totally misunderstood the 'Brexit has changed everything' argument. I thought it meant that one reason Scotland voted No was to ensure that by remaining in the UK membership of the EU was guaranteed, but having now left the EU this reason for voting No has now gone so it is time for another vote. Maybe if there is another referendum the Yes campaign should make it clear that voting Yes does not necessarily mean joining the EU? 

[Roxy Hearts]

7 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Had Sturgeon and co. made a better fist of being in government since 2007 they’d have had many more of the electorate on their side, thus increasing the chance of being independent.
 

As it’s turned out, everything they touch turns to utter shite and as a consequence the majority of people wouldn't trust them to run their local Spar, let alone an independent Scotland.  

Get independence and get them out! Still get my vote at the moment as nothing better.

[Mars plastic]

5 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. It appears that I've totally misunderstood the 'Brexit has changed everything' argument. I thought it meant that one reason Scotland voted No was to ensure that by remaining in the UK membership of the EU was guaranteed, but having now left the EU this reason for voting No has now gone so it is time for another vote. Maybe if there is another referendum the Yes campaign should make it clear that voting Yes does not necessarily mean joining the EU? 

Correct. Turkey have been waiting for 34 years to get in after all. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. It appears that I've totally misunderstood the 'Brexit has changed everything' argument. I thought it meant that one reason Scotland voted No was to ensure that by remaining in the UK membership of the EU was guaranteed, but having now left the EU this reason for voting No has now gone so it is time for another vote. Maybe if there is another referendum the Yes campaign should make it clear that voting Yes does not necessarily mean joining the EU? 

 

I'm sure it'll be made abundantly clear

[XB52]

Personally I'd rather not rejoin the EU but go for EFTA like Norway I believe. However it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide the path we head on after independence

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

I appreciate that if you are a keen Nationalist and you loath the UK with a passion, which you clearly do, then you will not care. You are perfectly entitled to think this way. On the other hand, some of us are not impressed by Sturgeon and her crowd who make a  commitment, go back on it, and then spend the next decade or so committing so much hot air to this that ship that has sailed that they forget to run the economy, education and heath services.   

 

Can Scotland manage its own affairs? Yes, but even John Swinney has alluded to a very challenging decade or more should Scotland be independent. That is the crux of the matter. Some people want to walk around proclaiming themselves as proud Scots and/or as anti English/British and see an independent Scotland as a means to this. Whatever floats your boat. On the other hand there are Scots who are not so partisan and who quietly want the opportunity to be able to live a life free of austerity forced on them simply for the sake of being able to say that Scotland is independent of England.   

 

    

Good posting 

48 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Leaving the UK does not mean joining the EU; you have to be accepted in. Will Spain block it? Will we able to join when we cannot meet the financial conditions and will be at least 10 years post independence before we can?  For a thicko like me I'd appreciate some answers. 

No we wouldn’t be back in the eu fir a long time if we got Indy . Also it’s a economic disaster to even consider a hard border between England and Scotland ! 

31 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Best you check the polls then, they still do. If a referendum was voted on tomorrow the margin for no would be bigger then it was in 2014.

That’s actually true . 

19 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Had Sturgeon and co. made a better fist of being in government since 2007 they’d have had many more of the electorate on their side, thus increasing the chance of being independent.
 

As it’s turned out, everything they touch turns to utter shite and as a consequence the majority of people wouldn't trust them to run their local Spar, let alone an independent Scotland.  

Very true 

12 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. It appears that I've totally misunderstood the 'Brexit has changed everything' argument. I thought it meant that one reason Scotland voted No was to ensure that by remaining in the UK membership of the EU was guaranteed, but having now left the EU this reason for voting No has now gone so it is time for another vote. Maybe if there is another referendum the Yes campaign should make it clear that voting Yes does not necessarily mean joining the EU? 

The next campaign should not be based on us re entering the EU . It could actually back fire as there are a sizeable amount of brexit supporting Indy supporters 

[XB52]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

I think it was Billy C who said that yer average Weegie punter has more in common with their counterparts in Manchester or Liverpool than half the folk in Scotland.

 

Let's look at what unites us  

Is that the same Billy C who now supports independence?? 

[Taffin]

50+1 is fine. The alternative can have the outcome being against the majorities wishes which is problematic when we still pretend to be a democratic society.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I think it was Billy C who said that yer average Weegie punter has more in common with their counterparts in Manchester or Liverpool than half the folk in Scotland.

 

Let's look at what unites us  

Yes  I always view the English as cousins . I don’t feel I’m in a foreign country when I’m down there or wales or Northern Ireland actually . We are very similar , apart from the fact that English people have a greater life expectancy than Scots ! 

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Is that the same Billy C who now supports independence?? 

 

Due to how much things have changed wasn't it?

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

No idea of his affiliations. He does look like he is on his last legs now, though, which is a shame - seeing someone of his vitality in that condition really reminds us all to get on with things and not waste too much time worrying about which set of charlatans pretend to tell us what to do.

Yes I don’t Scottish independence is high on his daily thoughts now . He’s been very dignified and accepting of his decreasing health . Lovely guy really . Great comedienne too . I think Pamela Stephenson has been the love of his life as he had such a dour , emotional less childhood and in fact I think he was also abused . 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Not enough did then, bet they do now.

 

Why? How has being out of Europe affected, let's say a family in a Lochee tenement that couldn't be arsed voting in the EU referendum??

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I should have said l loathe UK politics with a passion. I like the UK and its people, I don't want to be governed by Westminster. 

 

Being a keen nationalist just means I believe in the Scottish nation. You're also one(Britnat) but you believe more in the British nation and nothing wrong with that. 

 

Being independent from England isn't the reason I want independence. It's to govern ourselves and not blame anyone,  especially the English people and to get the governments we vote for.

The U.K. and all it’s people are great. Let’s not get away from that. 
Like most on these threads now I try wind people up but whatever the people want is fine with me. 
Leaving tynie arms now😉

[Roxy Hearts]

41 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The U.K. and all it’s people are great. Let’s not get away from that. 
Like most on these threads now I try wind people up but whatever the people want is fine with me. 
Leaving tynie arms now😉

👍come on Hearts!

[JudyJudyJudy]

Dearie me 

[manaliveits105]

[ColinSmith1255]

I am Scottish, my wife is a Geordie, we both vote SNP. I can’t see labour winning in England so I hope for a vote for an independent Scotland and a chance for a progressive government.

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, ColinSmith1255 said:

I am Scottish, my wife is a Geordie, we both vote SNP. I can’t see labour winning in England so I hope for a vote for an independent Scotland and a chance for a progressive government.

Tax the wealthiest more basically? 

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Tax the wealthiest more basically? 

As opposed to hitting the poor with that particular fiscal sledgehammer? 🤔

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Des Lynam said:

Tax the wealthiest more basically? 

Making sure everyone paid the tax they are correctly due would be a wonderful starting point. 

Individuals and businesses. No secret deals with HMRC. 

It'll never happen. It's one of the real reasons behind Brexit, get out the EU before they adopted their new offshore tax haven/ tax avoidance laws. 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

As opposed to hitting the poor with that particular fiscal sledgehammer? 🤔

 

The point was made about progressives who believe in taxing the rich more severely as one of their main ideas. The top 1% pay a third of income tax. It would be dangerous in my opinion for a newly formed independent country to start with that is a tax plan. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Making sure everyone paid the tax they are correctly due would be a wonderful starting point. 

Individuals and businesses. No secret deals with HMRC. 

It'll never happen. It's one of the real reasons behind Brexit, get out the EU before they adopted their new offshore tax haven/ tax avoidance laws. 

That’s not entirely correct as the EU tax avoidance directive is superseded by the OCED who are globally tackling tax avoidance.  The new EU directive isn’t targeting individuals but corporations who move profits to preferential rules or lower tax EU or non EU countries. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

8 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

The point was made about progressives who believe in taxing the rich more severely as one of their main ideas. The top 1% pay a third of income tax. It would be dangerous in my opinion for a newly formed independent country to start with that is a tax plan.

That doesn't sound very progressive to me... If the UK or iScotland was to review the tax regime pragmatically and with a will to make it fairer, simpler and harder to avoid/evade your obligations then I very much doubt the status quo would survive.

 

NB: its early,  I had a crap sleep and am knackered and I'm as far from an expert in tax as its possible to be...

[JudyJudyJudy]

Shes got more faces than a town clock.

 

 

Cop26: Nicola Sturgeon calls for an end to oil and gas exploration | Scotland | The Times

[Des Lynam]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Shes got more faces than a town clock.

 

 

Cop26: Nicola Sturgeon calls for an end to oil and gas exploration | Scotland | The Times

She is a hindrance to the independence cause now. Drunk with power and all over the place. The SNP are now just the Murrell organisation in all but name. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

She is a hindrance to the independence cause now. Drunk with power and all over the place. The SNP are now just the Murrell organisation in all but name. 

Yep . Well passed her sell by date. 

[Japan Jambo]

On 22/10/2021 at 12:50, Boy Daniel said:

Just received this though the letter box. It will be interesting to see the results of the survey (if they dare do publish it) 

 

Is it financed by the SNP or taxpayer funded?

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is it financed by the SNP or taxpayer funded?

 

Scrabbling about to find something, the nick of you lot ffs

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Scrabbling about to find something, the nick of you lot ffs

The stories of glasgow being rat infested are pretty low as well tbh. The depths they’re prepared to go to are quite disturbing to denigrate this country. 

[Don Dan]

27 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Is it financed by the SNP or taxpayer funded?

Good question, I’ve no idea myself.

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Scrabbling about to find something, the nick of you lot ffs

 

It's a fair question, surely?

[Unknown user]

26 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

It's a fair question, surely?

 

Have you ever asked it before of any other party mailouts?

Edited October 26, 2021 by Smithee