The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Konrad von Carstein]

10 hours ago, Candy said:

No need for personal insults.

 

Boris is  - iMO - ripping the pish out of Blackford et al. Not what I would do, but certainly  in the same sphere as calling

Conservatives TOARIES. Its just using a descriptive word that has harsher connotations.

 

Its like recently when sturgeon wouldn't say Great Britain, she stuttered then said the island of Scotland,  England and Wales. Language seems to be very important to these types

 Insults? 

 

Toaries, Tories, Torys different spellings of the word used by broadcasters when talking about the Conservative & Unionist party - so no, not "harsher"  that claim is just you being, well, you.

 

What would she have against "Great Britain" or to give it it's full name Greater Britain" ? UK? I can see why there would be a reluctance to use the term.

[Justin Z]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Smithee, it seems to me you have considered your pov cos you seem so determined, but perhaps you ought to develop the skill of having the ability to see things from different points of view.  People see things differently. Accepting that other people see things differently is a helpful thing.

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 Insults? 

 

Toaries, Tories, Torys different spellings of the word used by broadcasters when talking about the Conservative & Unionist party - so no, not "harsher"  that claim is just you being, well, you.

 

What would she have against "Great Britain" or to give it it's full name Greater Britain" ? UK? I can see why there would be a reluctance to use the term.

1. Explain what "you guffy" means if not an insult

 

2. Largely the same logic applies to National/nationalist. Whats in a name? It only recently that nationalists seem to have been touchy about the term.

 

3. You'd need to ask her. She rarely uses the term. Probabaly because it has "great" in it.

[Konrad von Carstein]

9 minutes ago, Candy said:

1. Explain what "you guffy" means if not an insult

 

2. Largely the same logic applies to National/nationalist. Whats in a name? It only recently that nationalists seem to have been touchy about the term.

 

3. You'd need to ask her. She rarely uses the term. Probabaly because it has "great" in it.

1. Jeezo! Guffy, daftie, nugget - all gentle banterisms (is that a word?) in used liberally in my circle of acquaintances & friends.

 

2. Bojo knows the connotations of the word Nationalist when he uses it!

 

3. You're just being silly.

 

It's Saturday morning bud, the sun is out  and I have a trip to B&Q in the offing   hopefully Hearts ensure that that is the low point of my day! Enjoy yours.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

1. Jeezo! Guffy, daftie, nugget - all gentle banterisms (is that a word?) in used liberally in my circle of acquaintances & friends.

 

2. Bojo knows the connotations of the word Nationalist when he uses it!

 

3. You're just being silly.

 

It's Saturday morning bud, the sun is out  and I have a trip to B&Q in the offing   hopefully Hearts ensure that that is the low point of my day! Enjoy yours.

😇 Peace brother.

 

Gorgie rules.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Sometimes when someone has a really daft pop I like to just leave it dangling in the wind for all to see.

 

But seeing as I'm in the mood now, I completely accept that others see things differently to the extent that I don't even bother trying to convince staunch unionists. They think differently to me. I accept that.

 

I also accept that in life those that are ideologically opposed generally aren't evil, or wrong, or deluded, or stupid. It's all about perspective, we all see ourselves as the good guy, but we all have different perspectives on what exactly that entails, who we think needs protecting and from what.

 

There's a poster on here, a unionist, I've had cause to speak with him off site. His life is full of relative certainty, he has investments and lives of the income, doesn't have to work. He doesn't want change because change, volatility and the unknown represent a threat to the comfortable set up he's worked hard to create for his family. 

Me, I'm in a council house with a 2008 Corsa and net assets of close to nowt. I don't have anything, so I don't have anything to lose by comparison - of course our views are different, how could they not be? 

But although we have directly opposing views he's on my list of good guys because he is a good guy and I get it.

 

It would be utterly pointless for either of us to try and convince the other though, we just have different lives. It would be like a cow trying to convince a tiger that grass is the food of kings.

 

So yeah, he's wrong of course.

[Mikey1874]

11 hours ago, JackLadd said:

The cybernat abuse of Cherry is reminiscent of the vile campaign against Charles Kennedy. Just an odious cult.

 

(Some good debate on here just now.)

 

This is curious. I would say a very good subject for investigative journalism.

 

What is going on with the campaign against Joanna Cherry. Add to that the choice (where SNP changed rules to effectively exclude Cherry) of Angus Robertson for Edinburgh Central. Something to look very closely at. 

 

Without knowing everything I would say that if you wanted a strong, inclusive party or movement you would want Joanna Cherry to be part of it. 

 

If you can't do that you will struggle to engage with patriotic No voters to help build a strong, united Scotland whether independent or not. 

[WoolfordsHearts]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Sometimes when someone has a really daft pop I like to just leave it dangling in the wind for all to see.

 

But seeing as I'm in the mood now, I completely accept that others see things differently to the extent that I don't even bother trying to convince staunch unionists. They think differently to me. I accept that.

 

I also accept that in life those that are ideologically opposed generally aren't evil, or wrong, or deluded, or stupid. It's all about perspective, we all see ourselves as the good guy, but we all have different perspectives on what exactly that entails, who we think needs protecting and from what.

 

There's a poster on here, a unionist, I've had cause to speak with him off site. His life is full of relative certainty, he has investments and lives of the income, doesn't have to work. He doesn't want change because change, volatility and the unknown represent a threat to the comfortable set up he's worked hard to create for his family. 

Me, I'm in a council house with a 2008 Corsa and net assets of close to nowt. I don't have anything, so I don't have anything to lose by comparison - of course our views are different, how could they not be? 

But although we have directly opposing views he's on my list of good guys because he is a good guy and I get it.

 

It would be utterly pointless for either of us to try and convince the other though, we just have different lives. It would be like a cow trying to convince a tiger that grass is the food of kings.

 

So yeah, he's wrong of course.

Very good post.

My only point would be that normal hardworking Unionists are just as wary of change as people living off investments.

[Unknown user]

47 minutes ago, WoolfordsHearts said:

Very good post.

My only point would be that normal hardworking Unionists are just as wary of change as people living off investments.

Yeah of course, I don't mean to say that's the only reasonable excuse for me, it's just a simplified example of a guy that I've spoken with to illustrate the point.

There are loads of other reasons I have the perspective I do, we'll all be the same.

[ri Alban]

18 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Ignored? Are you for real? Westminster delivers an extra £10billion to Scotland to fight Covid and you see that as Scotland being ignored? That's some chip you have on your shoulder. 

So England got an extra £100b.

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

So proud you're content to continue to be an ignored, ridiculed and patronised "equal partner" by Westminster instead of us charting our own course and unilaterally making decisions that suit Scotland?

Why should we be an "equal" partner? We have a population share of MPs in Westminster.  What do you want ? A tartan veto? The 8% tail wagging the 92% dog? I hope you think we would be an "equal " partner in the EU. A piddly wee nonentitie, dominated, like everyone else, by France and Germany.  If the EU is still in existence of course. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Why should we be an "equal" partner? We have a population share of MPs in Westminster.  What do you want ? A tartan veto? The 8% tail wagging the 92% dog? I hope you think we would be an "equal " partner in the EU. A piddly wee nonentitie, dominated, like everyone else, by France and Germany.  If the EU is still in existence of course. 

So critical thinking is only valid when you say it is?

 

You've out-contraried yourself! 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein
spelling

[jamboy1982]

On 12/03/2021 at 18:16, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I don't think I'd class Edinburgh, Aberdeen, the Orkneys or Shetlands as strongholds of the SNP so another nonsensical post from you. 

It’s Shetland and Orkney. Not plural. Both traditionally Lib Dem’s but definitely moving towards snp 

[Enzo Chiefo]

55 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

So critical thinking is only valid when you say it is?

 

You've out-contraried yourself! 

No, no, I'm all for critical thinking and respect your opinion KVC.

[Konrad von Carstein]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, no, I'm all for critical thinking and respect your opinion KVC.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

52 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

That's most peoples reaction to the majority of the guff you post...

 

Now you have a lovely evening.  

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Why should we be an "equal" partner? We have a population share of MPs in Westminster.  What do you want ? A tartan veto? The 8% tail wagging the 92% dog? I hope you think we would be an "equal " partner in the EU. A piddly wee nonentitie, dominated, like everyone else, by France and Germany.  If the EU is still in existence of course. 

 

It is true if you are in a small country in the EU you are effectively in part a colony of Germany. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It is true if you are in a small country in the EU you are effectively in part a colony of Germany. 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

That's most peoples reaction to the majority of the guff you post...

 

Now you have a lovely evening.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

That's most peoples reaction to the majority of the guff you post...

 

Now you have a lovely evening.  

Oh, really?? Doesn't say much for the intellect of "most people" then. Have a good one fella👍

[Konrad von Carstein]

18 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Oh, really?? Doesn't say much for the intellect of "most people" then. Have a good one fella👍

 

 

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

Class in the United Kingdom is a big issue, how different classes see the world, understand it, can make use of it via society.

 

 

And therein lies the rub.

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

I am not able to understand what your point is. You quoted me, by splitting off my argument. 

And then you said 'And therein lies the rub'.

 

I could extrapolate, but I won't. 

I'd like to hear what you point is, if I haven't annoyed you too much. 

 

You've not annoyed me at all, bud, I just think that this part of your point is an incredibly important one.

 

Social/cultural class, and the perceptions thereof - both on an individual and collective basis - are fundamental to how folk will elect to interpret the independence debate. 

[Governor Tarkin]

33 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

For context, this is what I said.

I cannot agree with your statement. I agree that many people, that wish Scotland to be Independent are loudly anti-Conservative party.

 

But that alone does not address the question of how to discuss the issues of class withinin Scotland/UK/EU.

 

Acknowledging that it colours our subjectivity and clouds our objectivity would be a good start.

[Cade]

Sarwar to stand against Sturgeon in her own constituency.

A letter of resignation is a quicker way out, Anas.

 

 

[steve123]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Sarwar to stand against Sturgeon in her own constituency.

A letter of resignation is a quicker way out, Anas.

 

 

Just read that so if he loses he can't be party leader ? 

 

If so he is either sure he can win or has tried the leadership gig and had enough already 😂

[manaliveits105]

An Anas double fist pump when he wins would be a glorious 

[milky_26]

35 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Just read that so if he loses he can't be party leader ? 

 

If so he is either sure he can win or has tried the leadership gig and had enough already 😂

I have a feeling he can still be a list msp if he loses the seat vote. Someone with more knowledge should be able to confirm

[BudgeUp]

1 hour ago, milky_26 said:

I have a feeling he can still be a list msp if he loses the seat vote. Someone with more knowledge should be able to confirm

 

Aye. 

 

He'll be on the list as well if he isn't confident. 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Sarwar to stand against Sturgeon in her own constituency.

A letter of resignation is a quicker way out, Anas.

 

 

The corrupt, glakit twat has some ego on him. Almost as much neck as Jackie Ballie. 😄  

[SE16 3LN]

If I'm remembering correctly, the FM's constituency has an Unemployment rate more than twice the National average, among the poorest Health in Scotland, the Majority of Scotland's Pakistani Muslims and a large number of "other" minority ethnic residents. That being the case, its clear what Anas is trying to do.

 

Loss leader or not, that record on Unemployment and Health is indefensible and the Labour party clearly feel that the SNP could be damaged by forcing her to take responsibility for real issues for a change. After all, she's had a year of party in fighting with shagger Salmond, party political broadcasts around the virus and little Democratic accountability.

[manaliveits105]

Her teas oot 

[Gizmo]

The folk in her constituency ditched labour for a reason, and they ain't gonna vote tory. 

I thought he was a useless idiot before but it seems that was drastically over-estimating him.

[AlimOzturk]

This is more about dividing sturgeons attention more than actually winning the seat. She will now have to spend more time in her own constituency as a loss here would be humiliating and spell the end for her. Especially to the labour leader. Good strategy if you ask me. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

58 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

The folk in her constituency ditched labour for a reason, and they ain't gonna vote tory. 

I thought he was a useless idiot before but it seems that was drastically over-estimating him.

 

Perhaps they did who knows their reasons for voting for her. However if there is a very large Asian population within the constituency and he would more than like be atop the Labour list candidates then perhaps it's a win/win for him.  Rattles her cage on her own turf (so to speak), gets her on the back foot. I agree with you in regard to him but this might be a smart plan of attack from Labour. Obviously the Conservatives couldn't try this with Sturgeon but they can. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

51 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This is more about dividing sturgeons attention more than actually winning the seat. She will now have to spend more time in her own constituency as a loss here would be humiliating and spell the end for her. Especially to the labour leader. Good strategy if you ask me. 

 

Agreed. 

[AlimOzturk]

I don’t think this is going to be the walkover many SNP supporters feel it is going to be. Have spoken to a few (previous) die hard independence supporters who feel that the SNP need a real boot in the balls. Like me they feel the SNP have become arrogant and need a right good scare. For me independence can GTF for the time being until the Covid shit ****s off and a period of stability and normality. 

[BudgeUp]

2 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I don’t think this is going to be the walkover many SNP supporters feel it is going to be. Have spoken to a few (previous) die hard independence supporters who feel that the SNP need a real boot in the balls. Like me they feel the SNP have become arrogant and need a right good scare. For me independence can GTF for the time being until the Covid shit ****s off and a period of stability and normality. 

I've never been a SNP fan. I'm more naturally Conservative, so I've always felt uneasy voting SNP.

 

I'll probably not vote this election as I can't vote Tory* or SNP.

 

Greens, Labour or Lib Dem? Just... Nah.

 

* there is a difference between centre right conservatism and what we have in the Tories.

 

I guess until independence I'm always going to have that choice, vote for self determination at the cost of policies I agree with; or vote for policies I agree with at the cost of voting for self determination.

 

That's why I laugh at this thread, Scottish politics are far more nuanced than the binary view of "britnat" vs "scotnat".

 

Edit: I'm also not inclined to vote SNP this time round as they worked better as a single issue cause, instead of pandering to the masses with wishy washy policies.

Edited March 16, 2021 by BudgeUp

[JackLadd]

I am voting Sarwar although any party that opposes selective Ms Sturgeon is fine with me.

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, BudgeUp said:

I've never been a SNP fan. I'm more naturally Conservative, so I've always felt uneasy voting SNP.

 

I'll probably not vote this election as I can't vote Tory* or SNP.

 

Greens, Labour or Lib Dem? Just... Nah.

 

* there is a difference between centre right conservatism and what we have in the Tories.

 

I guess until independence I'm always going to have that choice, vote for self determination at the cost of policies I agree with; or vote for policies I agree with at the cost of voting for self determination.

 

That's why I laugh at this thread, Scottish politics are far more nuanced than the binary view of "britnat" vs "scotnat".

 

Edit: I'm also not inclined to vote SNP this time round as they worked better as a single issue cause, instead of pandering to the masses with wishy washy policies.

If you're a centre-right Tory , you're a centre-right Tory. Independence will never appeal to you. SNP will never offer you centre-right Tory policies , so why would you ever consider voting for them under any circumstances ? 

 

As an anglo Scot I am genuinely amazed at the state of Scotland : it effectively rejects  English political parties (ergo, English rule ?) but isn't convinced it actually doesn't want to be ruled by England any longer. At the same time, Scotland (or large parts of it) rejects the SNP  (but not the idea of independence ?)

What does Scotland actually want ? 

[BudgeUp]

16 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

If you're a centre-right Tory , you're a centre-right Tory. Independence will never appeal to you. SNP will never offer you centre-right Tory policies , so why would you ever consider voting for them under any circumstances ? 

 

 

The pertinent part was "vote for self determination at the cost of policies I agree with; or vote for policies I agree with at the cost of voting for self determination."

 

As is inferred neither party fully appeals to me bit both offer policies of varying importance to me.

[BudgeUp]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

As I write this, it is 2021.

What year is it from where you are from?

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. 

[BudgeUp]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

I feel like writing 'don't engage' 33 times is actually you engaging. So you might need to address that. 

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. 

[BudgeUp]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

32 again, 64 'Don't engage' in a row, as you continually engage. 

 

Nobody is making you engage.

 

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. 

[BudgeUp]

Just now, Zlatanable said:

Nicola?

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. 

[BudgeUp]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

You won't be able to copy and paste 'Don't engage' 32 times every time I post something in this website. 

 

(it certainly adds credibility to your argument though)

Goodnight. Xx

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I don’t think this is going to be the walkover many SNP supporters feel it is going to be. Have spoken to a few (previous) die hard independence supporters who feel that the SNP need a real boot in the balls. Like me they feel the SNP have become arrogant and need a right good scare. For me independence can GTF for the time being until the Covid shit ****s off and a period of stability and normality. 

I think your reading of the mood is probably about right but I don't see much in the way of realistic alternative for most SNP voters, labour and the libdems are so weak.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I don’t think this is going to be the walkover many SNP supporters feel it is going to be. Have spoken to a few (previous) die hard independence supporters who feel that the SNP need a real boot in the balls. Like me they feel the SNP have become arrogant and need a right good scare. For me independence can GTF for the time being until the Covid shit ****s off and a period of stability and normality. 

Similar to me . It’s hard to believe the SNP are discussing the need for an Indy ref when we aren’t out the woods yet with covid and won’t be for sone time . The country needs to take time and heal 

[luckydug]

7 hours ago, BudgeUp said:

Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. Don't engage. 

Is the correct answer to that pest. 

Ignore function easier though.