The rise and fall of The SNP.

[jack D and coke]

5 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

Have another election all you want. The result will be the same, even more convincing this time imo.

The concept of independence is actually quite interesting but anyone with knowledge on simple economics would know that Scotland would go to shit. 
 

Scotland needs Labour to get their finger out as Tory rule up here is almost unheard of, although they have been gaining ground over the last couple of years.

 

The SNP, in the majority been nothing but a failure over the last 14 years, although I do admit a few of their policies are really good - free tuition fees, free prescriptions to name a couple (list is not very big). 
 

With the Brexit vote I can also see some sort of mandate for a referendum  but really it should be once in generation, and that happened, and they lost. Where do you draw the line?

 

If they put as much money and effort into campaigning for independence then Scotland might actually solve its drug and obesity problem, failing healthcare and education system and crumbling infrastructure. 

 

The sooner the SNP and the greens are out the better. Labour / Tory coalition would have to monumentally **** up to be worse. That hate speech bill passed yesterday sums it up. Complete and utter embarrassment. 

Give us your knowledge on simple economics then please and why we’d go down the toilet? We’re surrounded by countries of similar size who do better than us with less so I’m quite interested. What exactly is it that makes us so incapable here? Genuinely btw. 

[Dazo]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Give us your knowledge on simple economics then please and why we’d go down the toilet? We’re surrounded by countries of similar size who do better than us with less so I’m quite interested. What exactly is it that makes us so incapable here? Genuinely btw. 

Before economics the Quality of politician to run the country would be my first concern. The state of some of our MSPs and the fear that runs through me at the thought of some local councillors having anything to do with decisions on a national level  😱 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Dazo

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Dazo said:

Quality of politician to run the country would be my first concern. The state of some of our MSPs and the fear that runs through me at the thought of some local councillors having anything to do with decisions on a national level  😱 

 some of them I won’t argue but by same token look at the nick of UK politicians.The country has just been robbed in broad daylight for a T&T app. The same amount Scotland gets for the block grant btw...for an APP  that doesn’t work. 

There’s hundreds of millions went elsewhere to equally as dodgy places in a proper scandal imo. Johnson? Patel? Shapps? Hancock? Raab? These are good? The other lot, Starmer? Has there been an emptier suit in opposition? Annalise Dodds? 
You could go on about this lot up here too I’m very aware but it’s not anything much worse imo. 
That’s kind of getting away from the fact anyway is that why are we so incapable here? What makes this place such a wasteland? Scotland has had drink and drug problems for ever this isn’t a new thing. How did Labour not fix in their 50 year reign when parts of Glasgow had shorter life expectancy than sub Saharan countries? With Scotlands resources pumping up the British economy yet parts of this place were in complete squalor? Who was in charge when Edinburgh was aids capital of Europe in the 80’s? When Dundee was heroin capital? 

Do you remember when they tried to bring in minimum pricing on alcohol so people could stop buying party bottles of cider for £2 and causing mayhem in their schemes? I seen people kicking up **** everywhere saying they should have the right to get melted out their tits! Scotland’s problems run deep and 14 years of anything won’t fix. 
The SNP wouldn’t neccesarily rule anyway. Vote Yes then elections. I do believe they should be made to stay around after the event though but the snp would splinter into different parties as they’d be done tbh. 
What is that makes Scotland, Wales and NI basket cases without English money? Seriously? Why doesn’t England get rid of us all? They’d take all out best people for starters and all the money and investment would up sticks and leave from all those parts? It would all be white people so massive win win all round surely? No coloured immigrants just funny accents. They be able to leave the wastelands around them. Do you believe that? 
 

[Kidd’s Boots]

I thought I might have a penny's worth regarding the referendum sub- topic.

 

There's an obligation for any party who runs a campaign and wins a legally constitueted election on a mandate to hold a referendum to carry through with that mandate, it is the will of the people.

 

The fact that this mandate can only be fulfilled when franchised from Westminster, is imo, a real block to democracy particularly when the House is coloured Blue. The legitimacy of any mandated referendum should be the only consideration and concern of Westminster, and not the subject matter of the mandate when the issuing of the franchise to hold the referendum is under review.

 

I've often wondered what the headlines would be if a Conservative run Westminster refused to grant the mandated franchise for a referendum on Workers Rights under a Labour controlled Holyrood, or Trans Gender rights under a Liberal Democrat controlled Holyrood.

 

The subject matter, to my mind is less important than the democratic process and will of the people.  If a mandated and legitimate referendum is carried out, then the outcome is binding, regardless of the subject matter and the will of the people has been carried out.  This sits at the heart of the argument for the creation of the Holyrood Parliament and the democratic right of this 'wee bit hill and glen'. 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Fear not the SG is giving Dundees V&A another £2m per year for next 3 years in addition to existing £1m per year it already gives them to create a national  innovation centre - thank goodness we wont need that money for anything else .

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Fear not the SG is giving Dundees V&A another £2m per year for next 3 years in addition to existing £1m per year it already gives them to create a national  innovation centre - thank goodness we wont need that money for anything else .

2m a year, yet not a peep about how much Hancock gave to his mate for nothing in return(To the people of England). 

 

 Fecking SNP giving oot 6m over 3 years to fecking Dundee so we can all enjoy the V&A. 

[manaliveits105]

They already plow £1m in - its not in danger - £6m into Dundee's drug problem or jobs  would be better spent 

[Mikey1874]

17 hours ago, pablo said:

Pro UK parties should stop talking about the constitution and a referendum. It's not happening,  there's no route to secession. The UK will not entertain it, especially now given SNP's recent governance of devolved democracy. 

 

Attack the SG on their appalling record on education and health. They are now synonymous with lies and secrecy, with a growing section of the electorate.

 

 

 

The opposition parties mention the Referendum because it highlights the SNP and Scottish Government put that above education, health etc. 

 

And they are holding an election putting lives at risk to prioritise another Referendum 

[jack D and coke]

30 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The opposition parties mention the Referendum because it highlights the SNP and Scottish Government put that above education, health etc. 

 

And they are holding an election putting lives at risk to prioritise another Referendum 

Oh cmon mate. Elections all over the world right in the middle of this. We’re actually starting to come out the other side now hopefully. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Oh cmon mate. Elections all over the world right in the middle of this. We’re actually starting to come out the other side now hopefully. 

 

Yes

 

But the ultra cautious Scottish Government has people working together indoors for 18 hours at the polling stations mixing with hundreds of other people. Touching papers. 

 

It goes against everything else.

 

But fair enough. If everything is planned to be open start of May. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

But the ultra cautious Scottish Government has people working together indoors for 18 hours at the polling stations mixing with hundreds of other people. Touching papers. 

 

It goes against everything else.

 

But fair enough. If everything is planned to be open start of May. 

Well we know it’s not and who knows with the way things are going not delaying the election could go actually against them. They’re clearly fighting fires on a few fronts atm. 
To say they’re risking lives when elections have went on all over the world including the worlds biggest democracy yet Scotland shouldn’t? I don’t know where to start sometimes. 

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Well we know it’s not and who knows with the way things are going not delaying the election could go actually against them. They’re clearly fighting fires on a few fronts atm. 
To say they’re risking lives when elections have went on all over the world including the worlds biggest democracy yet Scotland shouldn’t? I don’t know where to start sometimes. 

 

It also tends to be older people running the polling stations. Maybe they have to have been vaccinated.

 

Lots of things have been postponed.

 

But SNP need their 2nd Referendum.

 

Its actually one of the arguments against the current leadership from the Salmond/ Cherry camp. That the strategy is wrong. That they risk undermining the case. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Mikey1874

[jack D and coke]

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It also tends to be older people running the polling stations. Maybe they have to have been vaccinated.

 

Lots of things have been postponed.

 

But SNP need their 2nd Referendum.

 

Its actually one of the arguments against the current leadership from the Salmond/ Cherry camp. That the strategy is wrong. That they risk undermining the case. 

That’s their views I suppose who’s to say which one is right or wrong. 
Salmond doesn’t think they really want another indyref. That’s what he claims kicked this all off between him and the party with the harassment. 
Who to believe. 

[ri Alban]

All of England's, wales' and NI's elections are going ahead anaw. So please gie yersel peace. 

[Pans Jambo]

14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

All of England's, wales' and NI's elections are going ahead anaw. So please gie yersel peace. 

As usual its just Scotland who "cant" or "shouldn't be allowed" though. 

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

As usual its just Scotland who "cant" or "shouldn't be allowed" though. 

Some people have no self respect. It's quite sad reading the yellow livered posts on here.

Blair drummond will be busy, post independence. 

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Some people have no self respect. It's quite sad reading the yellow livered posts on here.

Blair drummond will be busy, post independence. 

 

 

You stirring up hatred? There's a law against that.

[manaliveits105]

18 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

You stirring up hatred? There's a law against that.

[Guest]

I see that the Scottish National Perverts have lost a by-election to the Conservatives in Melrose today.

[luckydug]

Why do so many Scottish people think so little of their country ? 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Candy said:

I see that the Scottish National Perverts have lost a by-election to the Conservatives in Melrose today.

Won a Livingston one with increased vote share. Borders folk tend to be Conservative.

[jack D and coke]

52 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Why do so many Scottish people think so little of their country ? Old video but this type of hun is everywhere. 

Seen loads of them last week actually hoping their antics had messed up scotland getting the euro matches....😕
What is the matter with these people?

Edited March 12, 2021 by jack D and coke

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Seen loads of them last week actually hoping their antics had messed up scotland getting the euro matches....😕
What is the matter with these people?

There is a few of them on here if the OF game thread is anything to go by. 

Imagine 'so called' Hearts fans siding with Newco. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Fear not the SG is giving Dundees V&A another £2m per year for next 3 years in addition to existing £1m per year it already gives them to create a national  innovation centre - thank goodness we wont need that money for anything else .

 

Dundee wouldn't be an SNP stronghold by any chance?

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Dundee wouldn't be an SNP stronghold by any chance?

Well it's in Scotland so pretty bloody good chance

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, luckydug said:

Why do so many Scottish people think so little of their country ? 

 

Unionists do not think "so little" of their country. We're proud Scots as well which I understand you SNP fanatics find impossible to reconcile but it's true. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Seymour M Hersh

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Well it's in Scotland so pretty bloody good chance

 

I don't think I'd class Edinburgh, Aberdeen, the Orkneys or Shetlands as strongholds of the SNP so another nonsensical post from you. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I don't think I'd class Edinburgh, Aberdeen, the Orkneys or Shetlands as strongholds of the SNP so another nonsensical post from you. 

Hmm, maybe that's why I said a pretty bloody good chance instead of definitely.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Hmm, maybe that's why I said a pretty bloody good chance instead of definitely.

 

Yeah, maybe. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Yeah, maybe. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

18 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Unionists do not think "so little" of their country. We're proud Scots as well which I understand you SNP fanatics find impossible to reconcile but it's true. 

 

So proud you're content to continue to be an ignored, ridiculed and patronised "equal partner" by Westminster instead of us charting our own course and unilaterally making decisions that suit Scotland?

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

James Tiberius Kirk would not agree with your stance. Poor choice, again. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

So proud you're content to continue to be an ignored, ridiculed and patronised "equal partner" by Westminster instead of us charting our own course and unilaterally making decisions that suit Scotland?

 

Ignored? Are you for real? Westminster delivers an extra £10billion to Scotland to fight Covid and you see that as Scotland being ignored? That's some chip you have on your shoulder. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

19 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Ignored? Are you for real? Westminster delivers an extra £10billion to Scotland to fight Covid and you see that as Scotland being ignored? That's some chip you have on your shoulder. 

 No chip.

Simply want Scotland to forge it's own path. So you accept that Scotland is ridiculed and patronised?  

You do realise that Covid payments aren't free handouts eh?  

Edited March 12, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein
User error :(

[Roxy Hearts]

18 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Ignored? Are you for real? Westminster delivers an extra £10billion to Scotland to fight Covid and you see that as Scotland being ignored? That's some chip you have on your shoulder. 

Extra 10 billion? How much does Scotland provide for Westminster, nobody knows as they won't tell us? They supposedly borrow money on our behalf. Answered my own question but I normally do to myself as trying to get the truth of how the UK operates is perplexing!

[jack D and coke]

58 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Extra 10 billion? How much does Scotland provide for Westminster, nobody knows as they won't tell us? They supposedly borrow money on our behalf. Answered my own question but I normally do to myself as trying to get the truth of how the UK operates is perplexing!

It’s the way it’s worded eh. Like it’s a gift. They’re you go ya skint *******s think yourselves lucky we’re here  

[Roxy Hearts]

49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s the way it’s worded eh. Like it’s a gift. They’re you go ya skint *******s think yourselves lucky we’re here  

Aye. I can't get over people meekly accepting Scotland’s status within the UK and the hypocritical way Westminster go about things. Why is it people accept, without question, what Westminster does and where they get money from?  They want answer after answer about Scotland. Why don't they ask Westminster why they want to keep Scotland and tell us our real finances.

[Unknown user]

https://www.nature.scot/landforms-and-geology/scotlands-rocks-landforms-and-soils/rocks-and-minerals/how-scotlands-geological-foundations-came-together/collision-england

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-geologists-reveal-ancient-england-france.html

I remember my dad saying something like this but I always assumed it was drunken bollocks.

 

Turns out he was right, Scotland and England literally came from different ancient continents, Laurentia and Avalonia, the meeting line being pretty damn close to the English border. Our very rock came from thousands of miles away from England's.

 

As I've said many times we face different challenges in Scotland, we have a massively different head of population per square mile to England, our logistics are more challenging with hard rock and difficult terrain over a large percentage of the country. If nothing else we need a government that focuses on our needs and can be changed when the people of Scotland demand it.

[Australis]

John Swinney has announced tonight MSP's can see the education report he has been hiding but they will not be allowed to comment on it or announce any details before the election?

 

What is Scotland turning into?

Why is it to be kept silent?

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Back in 2014 I couldn't understand how anyone could square the circle (including family and friends) of having voted no but still declaring themselves proud to be Scottish. It's taken almost seven years, but I think I can understand it better now. I don't think ardent yes voters do their cause any favours by describing Scotland as being 'ignored, ridiculed and patronised'. I simply don't think that's the case, and deep down, most yes voters probably know it. But they like to paint it like that to add weight to their argument. 

 

Well, we will, once more have to agree to disagree.....the "leader" of the UK cannot (will not) use the correct name of the majority parliamentary party that represents the voters of Scotland in the HoC ...ridiculing and patronising right there...

 

TL:DR?

 

Don't talk shite!

Edited March 12, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Well, we will, once more have to agree to disagree.....the "leader" of the UK cannot (will not) use the correct name of the majority parliamentary party that represents the voters of Scotland in the HoC ...ridiculing and patronising right there...

 

TL:DR?

 

Don't talk shite!

How often does sturgeon call the Conservatives by their correct name rather than TOARIES?

 

Politicians  in glass houses

[Konrad von Carstein]

Just now, Candy said:

How often does sturgeon call the Conservatives by their correct name rather than TOARIES?

 

Politicians  in glass houses

Ummmm...the Toaries is an accepted "name" for them...And if you are half as sentient as I think you are, you know exactly what Johnston is up to with the Nationalist pish you guffy!

[Guest]

Just now, Konrad von Carstein said:

Ummmm...the Toaries is an accepted "name" for them...And if you are half as sentient as I think you are, you know exactly what Johnston is up to with the Nationalist pish you guffy!

No need for personal insults.

 

Boris is  - iMO - ripping the pish out of Blackford et al. Not what I would do, but certainly  in the same sphere as calling

Conservatives TOARIES. Its just using a descriptive word that has harsher connotations.

 

Its like recently when sturgeon wouldn't say Great Britain, she stuttered then said the island of Scotland,  England and Wales. Language seems to be very important to these types

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

 

 

Quote

Happy to agree to disagree, but the pro-indy movement would benefit from acknowledging the concerns - without name calling and a sneering 'yer no as Scots as us' dismissiveness - of the no voters who are just as passionately Scottish as they are.

Sshhhh. They've not figured that out yet.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Candy

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You need a TL;DR for one sentence? 😜 

 

Johnson plays politics to garner support from his base, as does Sturgeon. It's dull as dishwater, but it's par for the course. It's playground level shite on all sides and it doesn't show any signs of improving as we near an election here and a possible referendum thereafter.

 

Happy to agree to disagree, but the pro-indy movement would benefit from acknowledging the concerns - without name calling and a sneering 'yer no as Scots as us' dismissiveness - of the no voters who are just as passionately Scottish as they are.

Would they? How though? Let's say I acknowledge their concerns, are they going to vote yes now?

The concerns of those in the middle though, of actual potential yes voters, of course. And many make an effort to remember and reasonably address them. But there's no point trying to convince the idealistically opposed, it's such a waste of time and effort, they're as interested in being convinced as I am in being convinced by unionism.

[JackLadd]

The cybernat abuse of Cherry is reminiscent of the vile campaign against Charles Kennedy. Just an odious cult.

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Speaking from personal experience - myself and a friend were very quick to dismiss another friend's concerns re the economic viability of an independent Scotland back in 2014. Put it this way, his arguments were a lot more credible than ours. But we ran roughshod over them, causing the odd awkward moment in the pub, probably caught up in the romance of what independence would mean.

 

I think we should all have a wee bit more perspective on things given we've been through 2014 and then the EU referendum. Common sense would suggest these shared experiences should give us all a little bit of empathy with 'the other side', but to be honest, it seems to be more divided, petty and entrenched now than ever. We're regressing. If that's what referendums cause, then I really don't want to see another one any time soon. 

I'd question the causality, are we divided because of referendums or are there referendums because we're divided?

I'd say they're an expression of democracy and a reflection of where we are rather than a cause.

[manaliveits105]

7 hours ago, Australis said:

John Swinney has announced tonight MSP's can see the education report he has been hiding but they will not be allowed to comment on it or announce any details before the election?

 

What is Scotland turning into?

Why is it to be kept silent?

Honest John hmmm ?

a disgrace of a party 

wheeesht for incompetence 

[Konrad von Carstein]

8 hours ago, jonesy said:

You need a TL;DR for one sentence? 😜 

 

Johnson plays politics to garner support from his base, as does Sturgeon. It's dull as dishwater, but it's par for the course. It's playground level shite on all sides and it doesn't show any signs of improving as we near an election here and a possible referendum thereafter.

 

Happy to agree to disagree, but the pro-indy movement would benefit from acknowledging the concerns - without name calling and a sneering 'yer no as Scots as us' dismissiveness - of the no voters who are just as passionately Scottish as they are.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Konrad von Carstein

[pablo]

9 hours ago, Australis said:

John Swinney has announced tonight MSP's can see the education report he has been hiding but they will not be allowed to comment on it or announce any details before the election?

 

What is Scotland turning into?

Why is it to be kept silent?

 

I don't think anyone will be surprised at this, given the recent events in Holyrood.

 

People will be able to draw their own conclusions on why the SG are attempting to hide a report on education standards. But, they'll not be sitting on good news.