Jump to content

The rise and fall of The SNP.


Zlatanable

Recommended Posts

Indeed.

Why would the SNP replicate the mess of Brexit and attempt to handle the Independence Settlement themselves?

I'm sure they'd convene a cross-party convention so everybody agrees on what we want and where we want to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 5.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Space Mackerel

    575

  • jack D and coke

    311

  • ri Alban

    257

  • Smithee

    252

Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.


The whole point is that Scotland would rejoin the EU and be stronger by association. The EU wasn’t all that expensive, Westminster have spent more leaving the thing, than the entire amount they paid in whilst a member.

Link to post
Share on other sites
jambos are go!

Watched the Scottish News this evening shocking graphic showing the shocking increase in missed waiting times targets in the N H S under this incompetent SN P administration. Also the staggering increase in drug deaths. Add to that the broken promises o n education there is no way this catastrophic Administration deserves re-election.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Have you got a link to this withering critique?

Last Saturday’s Times Scotland. Sorry, don’t have an online link.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


The whole point is that Scotland would rejoin the EU and be stronger by association. The EU wasn’t all that expensive, Westminster have spent more leaving the thing, than the entire amount they paid in whilst a member.

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

 

True.  The Nationalists are overlooking the fact that >60% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK compared to 18% EU and 22% the rest of the world.

 

In what reality can leaving your biggest trading partner and joining the EU be considered "stronger by association"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.

Malta and Luxembourg are wee. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

True.  The Nationalists are overlooking the fact that >60% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK compared to 18% EU and 22% the rest of the world.

 

In what reality can leaving your biggest trading partner and joining the EU be considered "stronger by association"?


We would still trade with the UK. Why would that suddenly stop?

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

That is a myth that has been debunked countless times.

They didn't veto Chezia or Slovakia after they both declared independence from each other in 1992.

They haven't tried to stop Montenegro joining after it's 2008 independence referendum.

Nor have they tried to stop North Macedonia joining after it's 1991 independence referendum.

Try again with a different myth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, coconut doug said:

 

Cheers but i cant get past the paywall.

That's what you'll be saying after independence trying to get south!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!.

Link to post
Share on other sites
jack D and coke
8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's what you'll be saying after independence trying to get south!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!.

:lol: Not enough of this light heatedness in these discussions. 
I keep saying I’m not going to comment on them anymore it’s utterly pointless, just people trying to wind each other up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jambos are go! said:

Watched the Scottish News this evening shocking graphic showing the shocking increase in missed waiting times targets in the N H S under this incompetent SN P administration. Also the staggering increase in drug deaths. Add to that the broken promises o n education there is no way this catastrophic Administration deserves re-election.  

 

Looked at the waiting time figures for all 4 countries across a range of parameters. Seems to me Labour in Wales and Unionists in NI are much worse than Scotland and England. Surely shocking and incompetent too. They don't deserve re-election either.  Scotland generally has more stringent standards than England but the direction of travel for waiting times is very similar in both countries. Hard to justify the Tories continuing if that's true. Add that to the 170,000 premature deaths from benefit cuts under the coalition and you can understand why life expectancy is no longer increasing in England. 

 

  Who should we get to replace them?

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cade said:

Every time they say "I want rid of the Ess Enn Pee" they have no thoughts on who will replace them.

No other party in Scotland is even remotely capable.

Scotland doesn't want Labour or Tory. 

 

But it isn't humiliated enough yet  to vote for independence. 

 

Or can't get independence at the right price. 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Cade said:

Every time they say "I want rid of the Ess Enn Pee" they have no thoughts on who will replace them.

No other party in Scotland is even remotely capable.

The SNP are not even remotely capable, 

 

But, because a lot of people, hiya @Cade, belive and act, as if The SNP=Scottish Independence, everybody that lives in Scotland has had to put up with The SNP as a Government for 13 years, through multiple failures, because democracy/standards/behaviour is less important than, Scottish Independence. 

 

What I believe will start to happen next, is that the 2011-2015? mainwave of the , lets be honest, losing, block vote of the 2nd Scottish Indyref, will shatter. 

 

It seems clear that Nicola Sturgeon's days as a politician in British/Scottish politics are numbered. It's up to SNP members wether they want Angus Robertson or Joanna Cherry or someone else , as their next leader. 

 

Whomever becomes the next leader of The SNP is, they have a huge number of things to deal with in Scotland. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Yes, not that it makes a difference. Here’s one from August 2019 though...

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17819791.busted-but-spain-veto-scottish-membership-eu-/

Do you not find it troublesome to predict the actions of countries , within the EU, into the future though? 

(especially through the prism of the Scot Nat)

Edited by Zlatanable
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zlatanable said:

Do you not find it troublesome to predict the actions of countries , within the EU, into the future though? 


Not really, I just go by what they say, and Spain has no intention of vetoing anything, because it has no real relevance to their own situation. I can no more predict the future than you can. There’s nothing to suggest they or any other country would veto us though, quite the opposite in fact.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Not really, I just go by what they say, and Spain has no intention of vetoing anything, because it has no real relevance to their own situation. I can no more predict the future than you can. There’s nothing to suggest they or any other country would veto us though, quite the opposite in fact.

Is that true though? 

I think the EU is against the member polities splitting further into more numerous polities. I think. 

 

I get the 'Hey, Scotland is European!' stuff, but it's more complicated than 'EVERYBODY THAT IS IN THE EU 100% ACCEPTS iSCOTLAND  INTO THE EU' though , I believe. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zlatanable said:

Is that true though? 

I think the EU is against the member polities splitting further into more numerous polities. I think. 

 

I get the 'Hey, Scotland is European!' stuff, but it's more complicated than 'EVERYBODY THAT IS IN THE EU 100% ACCEPTS iSCOTLAND  INTO THE EU' though , I believe. 


They cannot just come out and say it, because Scotland is currently a part of the UK, but they are making it really obvious that they want us as part of the EU. It would actually soften some of the blow from rUK leaving, because we are actually quite a wealthy little nation. Similar to why rUK don’t want us to leave, in fact. 
 

It’s good that we can have this discussion in a calm and polite manner like this. It’s easy to let emotions get in the way of that, and despite our differing opinions, I don’t really want to go down the insults route, especially after reading your contributions to the depression thread, where you come across as a really decent guy.

 

I get triggered too often on here, and I am never proud of myself when I am. Respect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Is that true though? 

I think the EU is against the member polities splitting further into more numerous polities. I think. 

 

I get the 'Hey, Scotland is European!' stuff, but it's more complicated than 'EVERYBODY THAT IS IN THE EU 100% ACCEPTS iSCOTLAND  INTO THE EU' though , I believe. 

You have a point Zlat. A wee query, why do you post mostly at nights? Count Zlat 😁. Hope you don't mind me having a wee joke? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


They cannot just come out and say it, because Scotland is currently a part of the UK, but they are making it really obvious that they want us as part of the EU. It would actually soften some of the blow from rUK leaving, because we are actually quite a wealthy little nation. Similar to why rUK don’t want us to leave, in fact. 
 

It’s good that we can have this discussion in a calm and polite manner like this. It’s easy to let emotions get in the way of that, and despite our differing opinions, I don’t really want to go down the insults route, especially after reading your contributions to the depression thread, where you come across as a really decent guy.

 

I get triggered too often on here, and I am never proud of myself when I am. Respect.

People are people. Thank you for your kind words.

(I hope you will allow me to point out that Scottish Indepence is built on the back of cruelty and the absence of kindness)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

People are people. Thank you for your kind words.

(I hope you will allow me to point out that Scottish Indepence is built on the back of cruelty and the absence of kindness)


Not sure I get what you mean. Do you mean when Scotland was established as a nation it was built on cruelty and the absence of kindness, or do you mean the modern independence movement is? Either way, I’ll need to know where you are coming from to comment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Not sure I get what you mean. Do you mean when Scotland was established as a nation it was built on cruelty and the absence of kindness, or do you mean the modern independence movement is? Either way, I’ll need to know where you are coming from to comment. 

I mean, from post 2011, Scottish Independence + SNP, is built upon cruelty (like what happened to Charles Kennedy) or the absence of kindness from people like yourself, perhaps. 

 

And we all know it.

 

Edit- and this is why we can all be happy knowing The SNP will never win 'Scotland'

 

Edited by Zlatanable
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zlatanable said:

I mean, from post 2011, Scottish Independence + SNP, is built upon cruelty (like what happened to Charles Kennedy) or the absence of kindness from people like yourself, perhaps. 

 

And we all know it.

 

 


I think there is a case to make for the Scottish independence movement being rooted in people wanting to break away from the cruelties of the UK system over the last ten years. Deaths through poverty and a culture of nastiness towards immigrants for example. I (perhaps naively) believe that people want independence for all the right reasons. Politicians always disappoint in the end, but for now, I see the independence movement as providing a glimmer of hope for a way to unshackle ourselves from a cruel rightwing system that exists only to make rich people richer, and those less fortunate die.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I think there is a case to make for the Scottish independence movement being rooted in people wanting to break away from the cruelties of the UK system over the last ten years. Deaths through poverty and a culture of nastiness towards immigrants for example. I (perhaps naively) believe that people want independence for all the right reasons. Politicians always disappoint in the end, but for now, I see the independence movement as providing a glimmer of hope for a way to unshackle ourselves from a cruel rightwing system that exists only to make rich people richer, and those less fortunate die.

Decent excuse. Would you accept cruelty in the furtherance of your cause? 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

Decent excuse. Would you accept cruelty in the furtherance of your cause? 

 

 


I see cruelty every day, it’s saturating. It’s not something I associate with Scottish independence nor the SNP though. Do you believe it is? I’m intrigued by your Kennedy comment earlier. Do you believe SI/SNP we’re responsible for his death?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Decent excuse. Would you accept cruelty in the furtherance of your cause? 

 

 

The British empire was built on cruelty. One of the most vile, corrupted and inhumane imperialists that ever existed. Ask the Indian people. Duke of Cumberland was wonderful! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:


I see cruelty every day, it’s saturating. It’s not something I associate with Scottish independence nor the SNP though. Do you believe it is? I’m intrigued by your Kennedy comment earlier. Do you believe SI/SNP we’re responsible for his death?

I believe Ian Blackford/Nicola Sturgeon/ The SNP are were a factor in his later days, and their influence was cruel, unkind, and deliberately painful. 

 

Do you believe they weren't?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Eh?......Whit?......has peace broken out on this thread🤣

Seriously, it makes  for much more informative debate.

Good with the bad, it was always thus. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

The British empire was built on cruelty. One of the most vile, corrupted and inhumane imperialists that ever existed. Ask the Indian people. Duke of Cumberland was wonderful! 

Hi @Roxy Hearts

 

Cruelty in the past doesn't deny cruelty in the present. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

I believe Ian Blackford/Nicola Sturgeon/ The SNP are were a factor in his later days, and their influence was cruel, unkind, and deliberately painful. 

 

Do you believe they weren't?

 


I have never really considered that really. Maybe I am missing something or my memory fails me. I don’t remember any particularly cruel actions towards him by the people you mention. If you can send me some links, I’ll read them and give you my honest opinion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Hi @Roxy Hearts

 

Cruelty in the past doesn't deny cruelty in the present. 

I'm not sure what you mean by cruelty in the present. I lived through Thatcher who was a vile human being as are some WM politicians now.

Edited by Roxy Hearts
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm not sure what you mean by cruelty in the present. I lived through Thatcher who was a vile human being as are some WM politicians now.

Seriously?

 

Well, wait and find out the result, OR, you are fine, and bear no responsibility whatsoever, (and the impending collapse of the SNP is MI5 or something?)

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Seriously?

 

Well, wait and find out the result, OR, you are fine, and bear no responsibility whatsoever, (and the impending collapse of the SNP is MI5 or something?)

I'll leave you with your thoughts. Night, night. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I have never really considered that really. Maybe I am missing something or my memory fails me. I don’t remember any particularly cruel actions towards him by the people you mention. If you can send me some links, I’ll read them and give you my honest opinion.

Certainly Ian Blackford had the finger pointed at him due to his, and or his team, treatment of Kennedy if I remember correctly. There may even be links about it on another thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Daily Express and its constant fake news.

 

Smoke screen to the fact that half of England is under water and BoJo the Coward is nowhere to be seen. 

 

Folks were warned he was useless in a crisis. First one on his watch... where is he? 

 

Even Corbyn managed to visit the places affected by the floods. 

Edited by jumpship
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Daily Express and its constant fake news.

 

Smoke screen to the fact that half of England is under water.........

I hope you can see the irony in your post?!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Daily Express and its constant fake news.

 

Smoke screen to the fact that half of England is under water and BoJo the Coward is nowhere to be seen. 

 

Folks were warned he was useless in a crisis. First one on his watch... where is he? 

 

Even Corbyn managed to visit the places affected by the floods. 

Question- Have you ever bought The National in the mistaken belief it is anything more than a stupid fan-sheet?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Question- Have you ever bought The National in the mistaken belief it is anything more than a stupid fan-sheet?

Don't read newspapers.

 

3 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

I hope you can see the irony in your post?!

Nope. I'm completely oblivious thanks. 👍

Link to post
Share on other sites
Spoiler

 

👏  Well done the Scottish parliament, where all parties have come together to provide sanitary products free for all females. 

Not all bad this wee parliament.

 

 

 

 

Accidentally inserted the spoiler thingy. I have no idea how to get rid of it. :facepalm:

Edited by ri Alban
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

I believe Ian Blackford/Nicola Sturgeon/ The SNP are were a factor in his later days, and their influence was cruel, unkind, and deliberately painful. 

 

Do you believe they weren't?

 

 

7 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Certainly Ian Blackford had the finger pointed at him due to his, and or his team, treatment of Kennedy if I remember correctly. There may even be links about it on another thread.


Reading up on the latter stages of Charles Kennedy’s life just leaves me feeling sad. The poor man was going through a terrible and chaotic period of his life, and I don’t think he should have been anywhere near the campaign trail. It was like watching Amy Winehouse slowly unravelling in the public eye. His alcoholism eventually killed him, and it’s something he had been battling for a long time before the election. 
 

The campaign trail itself doesn’t actually look particularly worse than others. I think Menzies Campbell’s comments about the SNP and Blackford’s presence in Kennedy’s life towards the end are ill advised and rather distasteful actually. He and Kennedy must have been pretty close, I suppose, because his words come across as those of a person who is grieving a lost friend. I think he was letting his emotions cloud his judgement. 
 

I don’t see any outright accusations of Blackford and the #wherescharlie thing being responsible for Kennedy's death, which is a saving grace, because that would be ridiculous. Kennedy’s addiction was the reason for his death. At the time of the campaign he was grieving his parents, trying to get access to his son and battling a terrible addiction. He should not have been anywhere near the grim realities of running for election.

 

Its a really sad story, but I don’t think the SNP or Blackford can take the blame for his death. Did they make his life a misery in his final few years? Well maybe to the extent that they were part of a world that Kennedy was struggling to survive in. The electoral trail can damage healthy people with fairly stable lives, and it is no place for someone who is going through the sort of personal traumas and challenges that Kennedy was. There were personal attacks on all sides, as you would expect in modern politics. 

 

Just an extremely sad tale really. 

 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy
Link to post
Share on other sites
jack D and coke

The SNP or Yes movement or any political party are no better or worse than what we’ve seen in the past. The labour parties hounding of John Major when he was going for re-election is among the worst I’ve seen anywhere too. It’s was personal and vile. Was on the back of the poll tax (English rioted over it despite us being the guinea pigs for it) and Tory sleaze allegations, and people have this bitter obsession about the snp. People have short memories or are too young to know. 
Have a gaze across the pond too for nasty campaigns. 
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The SNP or Yes movement or any political party are no better or worse than what we’ve seen in the past. The labour parties hounding of John Major when he was going for re-election is among the worst I’ve seen anywhere too. It’s was personal and vile. Was on the back of the poll tax (English rioted over it despite us being the guinea pigs for it) and Tory sleaze allegations, and people have this bitter obsession about the snp. People have short memories or are too young to know. 
Have a gaze across the pond too for nasty campaigns. 
 

The people who vote for Ian Blackford are aware of whatever happened with Charles Kennedy, whom I liked, so I'm sure if there was any issues he wouldn't be voted in. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...