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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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Nucky Thompson

Independence aside, the SNP are absolutely shit at running the country.

People will vote for them in a GE to have a voice in Westminster, but surely people will wake up when it comes to the Holyrood elections.

 

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6 hours ago, jambogaza said:

 

I'm not sure it is completely reliable. They're estimates at best. VAT returns are not submitted separately in Scotland, for example. So there is no factual way of knowing what Scotland raises. There also aren't border checks in Carlisle so who knows what the extent of our exports are? 

 

A fiscally independent scotland could make different economic choices that boost the economy, for example a friendlier immigration policy which most businesses in Scotland are saying is needed. 

 

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/what-gers-can-and-cannot-tell-us.html

 

Have a wee read of that and then come back and see if you still think GERS tells us nothing about Scotland

 

Indy Scotland can do things differently for sure, so what would they do differently and how much would it cost to do so? We know the starting point, explain how we make up the loss of £12bn to start with once we're out of the UK. 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Independence aside, the SNP are absolutely shit at running the country.

People will vote for them in a GE to have a voice in Westminster, but surely people will wake up when it comes to the Holyrood elections.

 

Or......perhaps not

Scottish Labour are falling off sharply, LibDems are falling a bit slower.  

Most of these voters are going to the SNP, with a few of them going Tory.

There is no viable opposition in Scotland.

The Scottish Tories have re-branded themselves as a single issue party of protest with "Independence Never!" being their one and only policy.

LgYji9v.pngaL3BhBG.png

 

Edited by Cade
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1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/what-gers-can-and-cannot-tell-us.html

 

Have a wee read of that and then come back and see if you still think GERS tells us nothing about Scotland

 

Indy Scotland can do things differently for sure, so what would they do differently and how much would it cost to do so? We know the starting point, explain how we make up the loss of £12bn to start with once we're out of the UK. 

 

 

£12bn to start with and then  paying tariffs to export to the UK, no EU membership, no trade agreements

Many  would not stay. Many would keep their UK pounds, their standard of living, their UK passport and with a heavy heart leave the place they love and leave the "FREEDOM" fighters to enter their unknown rather scary future. And it's likely to be the ones that are on the higher rates taxes that will leave. 

If anyone thinks BREXIT is complicated........ you ain't seen nothing yet.

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jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, H2 said:

£12bn to start with and then  paying tariffs to export to the UK, no EU membership, no trade agreements

Many  would not stay. Many would keep their UK pounds, their standard of living, their UK passport and with a heavy heart leave the place they love and leave the "FREEDOM" fighters to enter their unknown rather scary future. And it's likely to be the ones that are on the higher rates taxes that will leave. 

If anyone thinks BREXIT is complicated........ you ain't seen nothing yet.

So Britain thinks leaving the eu will see no tariffs anywhere or believe there shouldn’t be any and is blaming big bad EU if it won’t play ball....but they’ll punish us?  That how it’s gonna go? We are just not allowed to take back any powers or else but it’s all great for the uk? 

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jambos are go!

A first term 29 year old is appointed FInance Minister ahead of the lobby fodder S NP  MSPs . It tells us a lot and it won't end well.

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2 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/what-gers-can-and-cannot-tell-us.html

 

Have a wee read of that and then come back and see if you still think GERS tells us nothing about Scotland

 

Indy Scotland can do things differently for sure, so what would they do differently and how much would it cost to do so? We know the starting point, explain how we make up the loss of £12bn to start with once we're out of the UK. 

 

 

 

Maybe if you could tell us the components of the £12bn loss we could explain yet again in even more detail how an independent Scotland might deal with it.

How accurate is this figure? Are large amounts of data used not based on surveys?

How much of this figure is made up of UK debt owed to Bof E?

How much is lost in payments to PFI exploiters?

How much is spent on things we don't want or need?

How much money could be saved if Scotland carries out governmental functions itself rather than having London salaries and costs attributed to us.

 

Maybe you could tell us why London and the SE are the only regions of the UK to show a significant surplus. 

Maybe you could consider the finances of the rest of the UK and explain to us why there is such a huge disparity between London and the South East, and the rest of the country.

Are you aware that despite all these arbitrary costs being attributed to Scotland we remain amongst the best performing areas of the UK.

Is it not true that Scotland is the only constituent country of the UK that exports more than it imports?

 

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31 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

So Britain thinks leaving the eu will see no tariffs anywhere or believe there shouldn’t be any and is blaming big bad EU if it won’t play ball....but they’ll punish us?  That how it’s gonna go? We are just not allowed to take back any powers or else but it’s all great for the uk? 

If Sturgeon had an ounce of common sense she would work with Boris Johnson to get a good deal for the UK when it comes to EU. Work WITH being the key  as opposed to gurning, grimacing and griping all the time. Not sure if the penny has dropped yet but the UK deal with the EU will also be the terms Scotland will be trading on with rUK if they were "independent " in Europe. The inverted commas are there to highlighy the fact that if you can't control your borders or fiscal policy you sure as hell aren't independent 

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manaliveits105

Brass neck Jimmy Krankie saying she will lead her party into next years elections - be surprised if she is still there 

Beware the ides of March Jimmy 

yer shoogly peg is hingin hen

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57 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Maybe if you could tell us the components of the £12bn loss we could explain yet again in even more detail how an independent Scotland might deal with it.

How accurate is this figure? Are large amounts of data used not based on surveys?

How much of this figure is made up of UK debt owed to Bof E?

How much is lost in payments to PFI exploiters?

How much is spent on things we don't want or need?

How much money could be saved if Scotland carries out governmental functions itself rather than having London salaries and costs attributed to us.

 

Maybe you could tell us why London and the SE are the only regions of the UK to show a significant surplus. 

Maybe you could consider the finances of the rest of the UK and explain to us why there is such a huge disparity between London and the South East, and the rest of the country.

Are you aware that despite all these arbitrary costs being attributed to Scotland we remain amongst the best performing areas of the UK.

Is it not true that Scotland is the only constituent country of the UK that exports more than it imports?

 

 

Check out the following page for all the answers you're looking for in the upper part of your response

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2020/02/deficits-deficit-gaps-and-fiscal.html touches on the surpluses around the UK. It isn't an issue that London/SE are the main contributors to the UK finances as we are all part of the UK and so all benefit from this. Scotland only has a problem if no longer in the UK. I'm fully aware that Scotland is one of the best performing areas of the UK, despite the constant whining from the SNP. Just imagine if they focused on something other than independence and made us even better. We've had unfettered freedom of movement for many years yet Scotland's population has stayed static and the England's increased drastically. Why didn't they manage to attract lots of people to Scotland when it was easy to come here?

 

 

So Scotland exports more than it imports? Great, which country do they export the most to? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Who's going to take over from the SNP as Scotland's dominant party ? 

 

Labour ? 🤭

LIB Dems ? 😁😁

Tories.? 😄😁🤣🤗🤭

 

Usual right wing suspects giving their minds a treat. 

All over discussions like this but when it comes to a vote, demoralised as usual. 

Other parties will only have a chance of governing Scotland when Independence is finally delivered. 

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46 minutes ago, Cade said:

but but but ah hate thum

so ivribuddy hates thum

how are they no feenished yit

ah dinnae underston

 


In a nutshell.

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Space Mackerel
4 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Independence aside, the SNP are absolutely shit at running the country.

People will vote for them in a GE to have a voice in Westminster, but surely people will wake up when it comes to the Holyrood elections.

 


Here we have it readers, a poster who thinks George W Bush knows how to administer Iraq 😁😁😁

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Nucky Thompson
13 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:


Here we have it readers, a poster who thinks George W Bush knows how to administer Iraq 😁😁😁

 :wtfvlad:

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Nucky Thompson
1 hour ago, luckydug said:

Who's going to take over from the SNP as Scotland's dominant party ? 

 

Labour ? 🤭

LIB Dems ? 😁😁

Tories.? 😄😁🤣🤗🤭

 

Usual right wing suspects giving their minds a treat. 

All over discussions like this but when it comes to a vote, demoralised as usual. 

Other parties will only have a chance of governing Scotland when Independence is finally delivered. 

Forget independence for a minute.

Do you think they are doing a good job of running the country? 

 

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Trapper John McIntyre
11 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

Those that claim that the SNP are "shit at running a country" have never lived a day outside of Scotland in their puff.

 

I take it you still won't be applying for one of  the new blue passports?

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2 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

Check out the following page for all the answers you're looking for in the upper part of your response

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2020/02/deficits-deficit-gaps-and-fiscal.html touches on the surpluses around the UK. It isn't an issue that London/SE are the main contributors to the UK finances as we are all part of the UK and so all benefit from this. Scotland only has a problem if no longer in the UK. I'm fully aware that Scotland is one of the best performing areas of the UK, despite the constant whining from the SNP. Just imagine if they focused on something other than independence and made us even better. We've had unfettered freedom of movement for many years yet Scotland's population has stayed static and the England's increased drastically. Why didn't they manage to attract lots of people to Scotland when it was easy to come here?

 

 

So Scotland exports more than it imports? Great, which country do they export the most to? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of particular interest in all of that is we raise x amount .

They keep x amount 

Then give us some more.

 

Is it not about time we said nah yer alright what money we make we will keep and decide for ourselves how to do it.

Why go through a middle man ffs.

 

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2 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

Check out the following page for all the answers you're looking for in the upper part of your response

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2020/02/deficits-deficit-gaps-and-fiscal.html touches on the surpluses around the UK. It isn't an issue that London/SE are the main contributors to the UK finances as we are all part of the UK and so all benefit from this. Scotland only has a problem if no longer in the UK. I'm fully aware that Scotland is one of the best performing areas of the UK, despite the constant whining from the SNP. Just imagine if they focused on something other than independence and made us even better. We've had unfettered freedom of movement for many years yet Scotland's population has stayed static and the England's increased drastically. Why didn't they manage to attract lots of people to Scotland when it was easy to come here?

 

 

So Scotland exports more than it imports? Great, which country do they export the most to? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a massive issue all across the UK. Regional inequality has blighted lives, living standards and communities all over the UK. Our economy is seriously unbalanced and vulnerable to small changes in Financial regulation. We don't know what effects leaving the EU will have on our London based, biggest fiscal earner but it's unlikely to be good. The economic and social damage to most of our country has been justified because of the earnings from Financial services. Government policy has supported that sector to the detriment of others employing currency strategies designed to support property prices in London but has also resulted in the closure and relocation of industry elsewhere. Thousands made big money in the city and spin offs but tens of millions have had to endure austerity and falling living standards. Has Chokkabloc factored in the costs of bailing out these unscrupulous banks and finance houses? Is he able to explain how the decision to bail them out impacts on the rest of the country. For many the effects are not so bad because they have reasonable pensions and residual wealth. For the young things are generally much more difficult.

 

The costs attributed to Scotland and every other region of the UK are disproportionate because we are allocated costs at London rates which are only partially offset by a "fiscal transfer" as a result of higher tax revenues. This makes Gers a poor reflection of reality. A much better measure might be balance of payments figures which show internationally that Scotland exports far more than it imports. Even if 60% of our trade is with RUK we run at a profit by that measure and the UK does not. This link by business for Scotland gives the figures and a further link to the Financial Times supporting their view. https://www.businessforscotland.com/independent-scotland-will-be-an-international-exporting-powerhouse/

 

  In all seriousness why do you think the rich and powerful are so desperate for Scotland to remain part of the UK when according to you we take £12 billion off them every year? If you really believed that £12bn figure to be true why would you actively support the politicians and political system that brought it about? I cant see why any self respecting Scot would not want to seriously consider constitutional change and living in a country that lives within it's means and irons out the the extremes of wealth and poverty, perhaps in a way similar to Norway.

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about immigrants. How do rates of immigration for Scotland compare to other peripheral areas of the UK?

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6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

So Britain thinks leaving the eu will see no tariffs anywhere or believe there shouldn’t be any and is blaming big bad EU if it won’t play ball....but they’ll punish us?  That how it’s gonna go? We are just not allowed to take back any powers or else but it’s all great for the uk? 

??.   You like tangents?

An indy Scotland will  have all the Scottish powers it wants, but the rest of the UK ain't going todo Scotland any favours, Think of it like a divorce, the only winners are the lawyers

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2 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

Those that claim that the SNP are "shit at running a country" have never lived a day outside of Scotland in their puff.

You can not be serious.

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1 minute ago, JustinT said:

Only in the minds of the hard left and nationalists. The rest of us sane people forget about it as much as we can and fervently hope for the mad and bad to disappear back into the wilderness where they belong. 

Did you read the link.

 

The first world war stopped it.

What's interesting is the way it was abandoned after the war.

It makes no sense to be governed by those whose loyalty lies elsewhere.

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5 minutes ago, jake said:

Did you read the link.

 

The first world war stopped it.

What's interesting is the way it was abandoned after the war.

It makes no sense to be governed by those whose loyalty lies elsewhere.

I couldn't give a flying fig what nationalist propagandists say. We're far far better within the Better Together UK. No doubt about it. 

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11 minutes ago, JustinT said:

I couldn't give a flying fig what nationalist propagandists say. We're far far better within the Better Together UK. No doubt about it. 

Ok.

 

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7 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

It is a massive issue all across the UK. Regional inequality has blighted lives, living standards and communities all over the UK. Our economy is seriously unbalanced and vulnerable to small changes in Financial regulation. We don't know what effects leaving the EU will have on our London based, biggest fiscal earner but it's unlikely to be good. The economic and social damage to most of our country has been justified because of the earnings from Financial services. Government policy has supported that sector to the detriment of others employing currency strategies designed to support property prices in London but has also resulted in the closure and relocation of industry elsewhere. Thousands made big money in the city and spin offs but tens of millions have had to endure austerity and falling living standards. Has Chokkabloc factored in the costs of bailing out these unscrupulous banks and finance houses? Is he able to explain how the decision to bail them out impacts on the rest of the country. For many the effects are not so bad because they have reasonable pensions and residual wealth. For the young things are generally much more difficult.

 

The costs attributed to Scotland and every other region of the UK are disproportionate because we are allocated costs at London rates which are only partially offset by a "fiscal transfer" as a result of higher tax revenues. This makes Gers a poor reflection of reality. A much better measure might be balance of payments figures which show internationally that Scotland exports far more than it imports. Even if 60% of our trade is with RUK we run at a profit by that measure and the UK does not. This link by business for Scotland gives the figures and a further link to the Financial Times supporting their view. https://www.businessforscotland.com/independent-scotland-will-be-an-international-exporting-powerhouse/

 

  In all seriousness why do you think the rich and powerful are so desperate for Scotland to remain part of the UK when according to you we take £12 billion off them every year? If you really believed that £12bn figure to be true why would you actively support the politicians and political system that brought it about? I cant see why any self respecting Scot would not want to seriously consider constitutional change and living in a country that lives within it's means and irons out the the extremes of wealth and poverty, perhaps in a way similar to Norway.

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about immigrants. How do rates of immigration for Scotland compare to other peripheral areas of the UK?


Fully agree with not knowing what the impacts of Brexit will be and for that reason we should be waiting for the dust to settle there before making any rash decisions. 
 

At least with Brexit, we are keeping our currency and as a net contributor to the EU we are in a good starting position. 
 

Going independent will lose us our UK dividend, lead to capital flight and mean that we have to spend a fortune duplicating existing departments that we have in the UK. We haven’t even been able to sort out a few benefits so far, requiring the hated, cruel UK government to keep running things for a few more years. Surely if things were so bad that would be prioritised and implemented as soon as possible?
 

If things do go bad In a few years time as a result of Brexit, I may well change my mind on Indy but it is daft to try and introduce another constitutional change at this time when the countries of the UK should be uniting and aiming to become the best we can be. 


There can’t keep being a new vote in Indy every few years. If they go for one soon and lose it, they won’t get another any time soon. Sturgeon is right to wait for 60% plus in the polls. Would be a very bad move to win Indy on 50.0001% vote and the country would suffer as a result. 

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A wishful thinking OP.

 

Most posts thereafter are people arguing their stance on independence.

 

Most people are not going to change their opinions after reading other people’s on this thread.

 

Throw in a few insults and some manipulated figures.

 

Small pinch of angry rants.

 

Same old pie as last time. Doesn’t matter how you slice it, it still tastes the same. :lol: 

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10 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

A wishful thinking OP.

 

Most posts thereafter are people arguing their stance on independence.

 

Most people are not going to change their opinions after reading other people’s on this thread.

 

Throw in a few insults and some manipulated figures.

 

Small pinch of angry rants.

 

Same old pie as last time. Doesn’t matter how you slice it, it still tastes the same. :lol: 

Cut it into 4 bits, I cannae eat 8.

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2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Cut it into 4 bits, I cannae eat 8.


I like to buy all the ingredients myself, bake the pie, then give it to the baker. He then sells it back to me. I always feel more confident about the quality of the pie if I buy it from a proper baker.

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17 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I like to buy all the ingredients myself, bake the pie, then give it to the baker. He then sells it back to me. I always feel more confident about the quality of the pie if I buy it from a proper baker.

 

:lol: This is a great analogy.

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28 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I like to buy all the ingredients myself, bake the pie, then give it to the baker. He then sells it back to me. I always feel more confident about the quality of the pie if I buy it from a proper baker.

You better no post that.

 

Too late!!! :D

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15 hours ago, indianajones said:

Voted in again by the people of Scotland in December but finished in Febuary. 

 

Weird. 


It’s wishful thinking.

Desperate thinking actually.

Enjoyable.

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14 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

Check out the following page for all the answers you're looking for in the upper part of your response

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2019/12/how-much-of-scotlands-tax-revenue-does.html

 

https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/2020/02/deficits-deficit-gaps-and-fiscal.html touches on the surpluses around the UK. It isn't an issue that London/SE are the main contributors to the UK finances as we are all part of the UK and so all benefit from this. Scotland only has a problem if no longer in the UK. I'm fully aware that Scotland is one of the best performing areas of the UK, despite the constant whining from the SNP. Just imagine if they focused on something other than independence and made us even better. We've had unfettered freedom of movement for many years yet Scotland's population has stayed static and the England's increased drastically. Why didn't they manage to attract lots of people to Scotland when it was easy to come here?

 

 

So Scotland exports more than it imports? Great, which country do they export the most to? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do people imagine there would be no trade between Scotland and England post independence ? Does Ireland still trade with England?

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On 22/02/2020 at 10:41, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Honestly mate, shut the **** up. There are Hearts supporters out there who don't buy into the SNP or their mantra. That doesn't make them Rangers supporters and, frankly, you're a ****ing moon howler for suggesting it.


Well said Phil. 
 

The argument that you’re not a true Scot unless you want independence is spouted by arseholes. 

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32 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Why do people imagine there would be no trade between Scotland and England post independence ? Does Ireland still trade with England?

You know the tariffs that would apply to UK goods if we leave the EU without a deal?? The ones that Sturgeon has tilting her wee napper and twisting her wee face about for 4 years now. The ones she claims will be so devastating for Scotland and the 16% of trade we conduct with them. You remember? Ok, well those will be the same tariffs, exactly the same deal, that will apply to a separate Scotland and the 64% of trade that we undertake with rUK. Add in the concomitant border issues at Berwick and the loss of the Barnett Formula and it really doesn't make any sense does it? If you are simply reliving silly wee skirmishes from several centuries ago, then fair enough but blinkered ideology doesn't pay the bills.

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jack D and coke
3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You know the tariffs that would apply to UK goods if we leave the EU without a deal?? The ones that Sturgeon has tilting her wee napper and twisting her wee face about for 4 years now. The ones she claims will be so devastating for Scotland and the 16% of trade we conduct with them. You remember? Ok, well those will be the same tariffs, exactly the same deal, that will apply to a separate Scotland and the 64% of trade that we undertake with rUK. Add in the concomitant border issues at Berwick and the loss of the Barnett Formula and it really doesn't make any sense does it? If you are simply reliving silly wee skirmishes from several centuries ago, then fair enough but blinkered ideology doesn't pay the bills.

Doom doom doom doom. 
Do you really think it would be that bad? Why would England suddenly not want to trade with us? We have things they want or need and likewise. It makes sense to sort it out no? Or just they **** us over at every turn? These are our friends? Our allies? 

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Nucky Thompson
10 hours ago, H2 said:

You can not be serious.

:D Maybe he thinks that if you've lived in somewhere like Beirut, you'd think the SNP were doing a good job at running the country 

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19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Doom doom doom doom. 
Do you really think it would be that bad? Why would England suddenly not want to trade with us? We have things they want or need and likewise. It makes sense to sort it out no? Or just they **** us over at every turn? These are our friends? Our allies? 

Again, just fantasy and hoooooppppe. Substitute the word England for Europe and your entire post could have been written by Sturgeon. Can you confirm that you disagree with her on Brexit? 

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jack D and coke
9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Again, just fantasy and hoooooppppe. Substitute the word England for Europe and your entire post could have been written by Sturgeon. Can you confirm that you disagree with her on Brexit? 

Yeah it could be. But why is Britain trying to make out its big bad EU and yet you think they’re going to screw us over at every turn should we decide we want to run our own affairs. You think it’s a one way street? It’s really not you know. 
Disagree with her on Brexit? Meaning what? I didn’t vote for brexit if that’s what you mean. I actually ended up not voting as I didn’t think I understood it enough. I’d probably be remain now however. 

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45 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You know the tariffs that would apply to UK goods if we leave the EU without a deal?? The ones that Sturgeon has tilting her wee napper and twisting her wee face about for 4 years now. The ones she claims will be so devastating for Scotland and the 16% of trade we conduct with them. You remember? Ok, well those will be the same tariffs, exactly the same deal, that will apply to a separate Scotland and the 64% of trade that we undertake with rUK. Add in the concomitant border issues at Berwick and the loss of the Barnett Formula and it really doesn't make any sense does it? If you are simply reliving silly wee skirmishes from several centuries ago, then fair enough but blinkered ideology doesn't pay the bills.

So there will be no trade between Brexitland and the rest of Europe ? Scotland would be capable of great savings eg no nuclear weapons  replacement,  no crazy illegal wars in the middle East to pay for. 

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7 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

So there will be no trade between Brexitland and the rest of Europe ? Scotland would be capable of great savings eg no nuclear weapons  replacement,  no crazy illegal wars in the middle East to pay for. 

Oh the simplicity. If only!

 

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