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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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manaliveits105

In every country in the world the elderly are respected by the younger population except in Krankieland where they want them to die off 

bizarre behaviour 

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15 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

In every country in the world the elderly are respected by the younger population except in Krankieland where they want them to die off 

bizarre behaviour 


The SNP want to keep a lower retirement age, and raise the state pension to 63% of pre-retirement earning, so that it is line with other western countries, and not the pittance that Westminster plan to toss at the elderly when they turn 75. Currently in the UK a pensioner can expect 29% of what they earned before retiring. 
 

That’s

 

63% when you turn 66

 

instead of
 

29% when you turn 75

 

🤔

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9 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

No one is arguing that the opposition parties at Holyrood aren't a shambles.  This is actually bad for democracy as the SNP get to piss around at Holyrood without being held to account.  Their supporters don't care how bad they are performing, as policies on anything other than independence don't seem to be an important to them, and they would elect a trained chimp with an SNP rosette.


There are people posting reasons why they vote SNP on this very thread. The SNP have policies that appeal to people and this is reflected in the number of people who vote for them. Do you honestly think people vote for them purely because they want independence? 

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11 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


There are people posting reasons why they vote SNP on this very thread. The SNP have policies that appeal to people and this is reflected in the number of people who vote for them. Do you honestly think people vote for them purely because they want independence? 

Yes! They may have policies which appeal to voters but their failure to implement them successfully exposes their unsuitability for power. A cult that once it splits will create Continuity SNP, Real SNP etc.

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16 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Yes! They may have policies which appeal to voters but their failure to implement them successfully exposes their unsuitability for power. A cult that once it splits will create Continuity SNP, Real SNP etc.

 

They have been in power for almost a decade with a majority. If people felt that their policies weren't being delivered properly, they would stop voting for them. They don't though, because they are happy with their policies.

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10 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Yes! They may have policies which appeal to voters but their failure to implement them successfully exposes their unsuitability for power. A cult that once it splits will create Continuity SNP, Real SNP etc.

 

Yet, as you point out, the policies are appealing.  Unlike those on offer from the Unionist parties, notably the Tories.  As long as the likes of Johnson and Patel exist in power, many will see the SNP as a safer option.

 

But I do think that the SNP do get a lot of support due to independence.  To those that want it, it is probably the primary goal.  Similarly, those that don't want independence seem to have coalesced around the Tory party.  Eek!

 

It's been said before that, for example, the NHS in Scotland is performing better than in England.  The counter to this is that it is still rubbish.  Fair enough, but given the opposition, especially the Tories, would no doubt emulate the English model, wouldn't that make it even worse?

 

Solution:  Have an indy ref!  If independence is gained then let's recalibrate the Scottish political landscape.

 

Personally, I'd probably vote Labour (or maybe Green), which I have done at recent Holyrood elections.  

 

Conflating independence with the SNP is not hard to do, but it's not really subtle.  Things are a wee bit more nuanced, imo.

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1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

They have been in power for almost a decade with a majority. If people felt that their policies weren't being delivered properly, they would stop voting for them. They don't though, because they are happy with their policies.

Unionists can attack the SNP all they like, but the uncomfortable truth for them is until there's a credible alternative they're wasting their breath.

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9 hours ago, pablo said:

 

The same reason as why a better case for independence hasn't either? 

 

The polls have barely moved in six years. 

 

Maybe this will be it forever? 

 

Oh, I don't know.  Johnson, Cummings, Patel et al seem to be doing a decent job of it!

 

 

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It's not even a choice for me tbh. I want independence, definitely, but their policies are better than those of the other parties too.

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12 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

My daughter has had a great education under the SNP and is at Uni because of them, studying to be a teacher, ironically. My grandkids love school so I don't know where all this pish about poor education is coming from apart from the usual propaganda outlets. Some person will go on about pisa or whatever that no parent gives a monkeys about. 

 

The argument from the unionists appears to be:

 

'Okay, they are better, but they should be even betterer'.

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jack D and coke

The cult talk is pretty tragic and explains why the uk parties will never make any inroads in Scotland anymore. 
The unionist mantra seems to be keep battering people over the head how shit everything is in this country and how messed we’d be without WM shoving money up our arse and start voting for the tories again or something. 
It’s laughable stuff. 

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22 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

SNP fiscal policies for an independent Scotland are laughable. 

 

Then you should probably vote for another party after Independence.

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1 hour ago, Stuart Lyon said:

SNP fiscal policies for an independent Scotland are laughable. 

 

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

 But wiv goat ile 

 

My memory may be a little hazy here, so apologies if so. Wasn't the SNP Growth Commission compiled minus any oil revenue?

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7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Then you should probably vote for another party after Independence.


I don’t vote SNP and never voted for them at the last ref. Many will be in the same boat. It’s the parties that will have to alter their stance when it comes, not the people.

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8 minutes ago, Boab said:


I don’t vote SNP and never voted for them at the last ref. Many will be in the same boat. It’s the parties that will have to alter their stance when it comes, not the people.

None of the current parties bar the greens could exist in an Indy Scotland. It would have to be New Parties. So agree with the last bit there. 

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Just now, Cruyff said:

None of the current parties bar the greens could exist in an Indy Scotland. It would have to be New Parties. So agree with the last bit there. 


That’s why I said that, mate.

Labour could easily re-invent themselves as a Scottish Labour movement. The Tories would be up shit creek....so here’s hoping !

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4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

None of the current parties bar the greens could exist in an Indy Scotland. It would have to be New Parties. So agree with the last bit there. 

 

In an independent Scotland, I would be voting for the party that promises to:

 

Keep the NHS free at the point of contact

Keep higher education free for Scottish students

Keep the the pension age down

Increase the state pension paid out

 

So basically whatever party the SNP become, would be my preference. Unless Labour or whoever decide to copy these policies.

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2 minutes ago, Boab said:


That’s why I said that, mate.

Labour could easily re-invent themselves as a Scottish Labour movement. The Tories would be up shit creek....so here’s hoping !

Yep, defo. Labours ideology is probably closest to the majority of Scots, if it changed its policy on Indy tomorrow and punted Dick Leonard, they'd win the next election. 

 

There'd have to be a right of centre, pro free market party but there's a lot of SNP folk that are right of centre too. 

 

The current tories are Unionists so perhaps you'd have two, DUP type right wing one with Carlaw and co, then a right of centre low tax, free market type one. 

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Ainsley Harriott
2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Then you should probably vote for another party after Independence.

Why whens independence happening? Still waiting on Sturgeon to tell us when this year indy ref 2 is taking place 

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1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

In an independent Scotland, I would be voting for the party that promises to:

 

Keep the NHS free at the point of contact

Keep higher education free for Scottish students

Keep the the pension age down

Increase the state pension paid out

 

So basically whatever party the SNP become, would be my preference. Unless Labour or whoever decide to copy these policies.

I think the Greens, SNP, Labour and the LibDems would all probably agree with that tbh mate. 

 

I'd vote Greens. In fact if Scotland was Independent they would probably have a big number of seats but at the moment they are a waste of a vote in the sense that if you favour Indy, you vote SNP 1&2. 

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12 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

I think the Greens, SNP, Labour and the LibDems would all probably agree with that tbh mate. 

 

I'd vote Greens. In fact if Scotland was Independent they would probably have a big number of seats but at the moment they are a waste of a vote in the sense that if you favour Indy, you vote SNP 1&2. 

 

You would hope so. I'd have to give serious consideration to voting for the Greens, if Scotland becomes independent.

 

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7 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

The argument from the unionists appears to be:

 

'Okay, they are better, but they should be even betterer'.

Sums it up! Do they ever question WM's huge debt and deficit which directly affects us all and the pressure on budgets etc?

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4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Sums it up! Do they ever question WM's huge debt and deficit which directly affects us all and the pressure on budgets etc?

Scotland is held to different standards, I've never seen one of these guys turn the same critical faculties on Westminster. 

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4 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

SNP fiscal policies same as the Tories austerity for years before we reach Brigadoon!

 

Does that mean the Tory policies are "laughable" too?

 

The Brigadoon comment, what does it mean?

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If Independence is a financial risk and Brexit is a financial risk, surely it'd be better to take that risk on our own terms, with our own government having full powers to deal with the risks in ways tailor made for the needs of the people of Scotland?

The one-size-fits-all immigration, fiscal controls and foreign policy of the Westminster lot has never worked for the benefit of Scotland, only the shires of the south east of England.

 

I know that making succinct points on this thread is like pissing in the wind but hey ho.

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4 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

Why whens independence happening? Still waiting on Sturgeon to tell us when this year indy ref 2 is taking place 

 

It might never happen but my advice to the poster is if it does happen then don't vote vote for the single issue cult party afterwards. 

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7 minutes ago, Cade said:

If Independence is a financial risk and Brexit is a financial risk, surely it'd be better to take that risk on our own terms, with our own government having full powers to deal with the risks in ways tailor made for the needs of the people of Scotland?

The one-size-fits-all immigration, fiscal controls and foreign policy of the Westminster lot has never worked for the benefit of Scotland, only the shires of the south east of England.

 

I know that making succinct points on this thread is like pissing in the wind but hey ho.

 

Complete fantasist nonsense from a flawed premise that the SNP are competent to negotiate a separation from the UK and join the EU without wrecking our economy. 

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20 hours ago, weehammy said:

It’s coming from the decline over the last few years in higher passes in several subjects and the increase in students failing higher English. It’s coming in the consistent underachievement of Scottish students in maths and science compared to other countries, including England. Check out Professor Lindsay Paterson’s withering critique of the way Swinney snuck out the latest disappointing education information ( released at midnight the other day).
Using the examples of your own kids and grandkids ( mine also did well) doesn’t render current criticism invalid.

Some real Trumpian stuff in your post!

 

Have you got a link to this withering critique?

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Trapper John McIntyre
4 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

How many accounts have you had since that conversation took place Troller John?

 

You're welcome to your wee blue passport, and the inevitable travel limitations and long airport queues.

 

Still living in the land of delusion my leetle Belgian friend?

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

If Independence is a financial risk and Brexit is a financial risk, surely it'd be better to take that risk on our own terms, with our own government having full powers to deal with the risks in ways tailor made for the needs of the people of Scotland?

The one-size-fits-all immigration, fiscal controls and foreign policy of the Westminster lot has never worked for the benefit of Scotland, only the shires of the south east of England.

 

I know that making succinct points on this thread is like pissing in the wind but hey ho.

I know you wont appreciate this coming from me but absolutely spot on.

 

 

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1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Complete fantasist nonsense from a flawed premise that the SNP are competent to negotiate a separation from the UK and join the EU without wrecking our economy. 

 

After witnessing the brexit cluster**** I doubt there would be any appetite for a single party negotiating a deal.

 

Such a big thing would have to be cross party.

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Indeed.

Why would the SNP replicate the mess of Brexit and attempt to handle the Independence Settlement themselves?

I'm sure they'd convene a cross-party convention so everybody agrees on what we want and where we want to go.

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Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.

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42 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.


The whole point is that Scotland would rejoin the EU and be stronger by association. The EU wasn’t all that expensive, Westminster have spent more leaving the thing, than the entire amount they paid in whilst a member.

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jambos are go!

Watched the Scottish News this evening shocking graphic showing the shocking increase in missed waiting times targets in the N H S under this incompetent SN P administration. Also the staggering increase in drug deaths. Add to that the broken promises o n education there is no way this catastrophic Administration deserves re-election.  

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24 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


The whole point is that Scotland would rejoin the EU and be stronger by association. The EU wasn’t all that expensive, Westminster have spent more leaving the thing, than the entire amount they paid in whilst a member.

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

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1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

 

True.  The Nationalists are overlooking the fact that >60% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK compared to 18% EU and 22% the rest of the world.

 

In what reality can leaving your biggest trading partner and joining the EU be considered "stronger by association"?

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1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Brexit will be bad enough. Independence would be even worse. What the politicians in their greed for more powers forget is that the World is global now and the UK is small and Scotland is tiny...The EU is an expensive bureaucratic juggernaut...Even if a juggernaut may be difficult to turn it doesn't get smashed by a pothole...Scotland would.

Malta and Luxembourg are wee. 

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38 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

True.  The Nationalists are overlooking the fact that >60% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK compared to 18% EU and 22% the rest of the world.

 

In what reality can leaving your biggest trading partner and joining the EU be considered "stronger by association"?


We would still trade with the UK. Why would that suddenly stop?

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1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Last Saturday’s Times Scotland. Sorry, don’t have an online link.

 

Cheers but i cant get past the paywall.

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53 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Spain would veto our re-entry. That's a pipedream.

That is a myth that has been debunked countless times.

They didn't veto Chezia or Slovakia after they both declared independence from each other in 1992.

They haven't tried to stop Montenegro joining after it's 2008 independence referendum.

Nor have they tried to stop North Macedonia joining after it's 1991 independence referendum.

Try again with a different myth.

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Just now, coconut doug said:

 

Cheers but i cant get past the paywall.

That's what you'll be saying after independence trying to get south!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!.

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jack D and coke
8 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's what you'll be saying after independence trying to get south!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!.

:lol: Not enough of this light heatedness in these discussions. 
I keep saying I’m not going to comment on them anymore it’s utterly pointless, just people trying to wind each other up. 

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1 hour ago, jambos are go! said:

Watched the Scottish News this evening shocking graphic showing the shocking increase in missed waiting times targets in the N H S under this incompetent SN P administration. Also the staggering increase in drug deaths. Add to that the broken promises o n education there is no way this catastrophic Administration deserves re-election.  

 

Looked at the waiting time figures for all 4 countries across a range of parameters. Seems to me Labour in Wales and Unionists in NI are much worse than Scotland and England. Surely shocking and incompetent too. They don't deserve re-election either.  Scotland generally has more stringent standards than England but the direction of travel for waiting times is very similar in both countries. Hard to justify the Tories continuing if that's true. Add that to the 170,000 premature deaths from benefit cuts under the coalition and you can understand why life expectancy is no longer increasing in England. 

 

  Who should we get to replace them?

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