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The rise and fall of The SNP.


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6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah it could be. But why is Britain trying to make out its big bad EU and yet you think they’re going to screw us over at every turn should we decide we want to run our own affairs. You think it’s a one way street? It’s really not you know. 
Disagree with her on Brexit? Meaning what? I didn’t vote for brexit if that’s what you mean. I actually ended up not voting as I didn’t think I understood it enough. I’d probably be remain now however. 

It's not a case of them screwing us over. Scotland and rUK will have zero say on how we trade with each other. There wouldn't be any trade talks between us. Our trading terms wiould be those negotiated by the UK and the EU this year. Sturgeon has repeatedly warned how many job losses will be incurred in Scotland because of Brexit and the affect on our 16% of trade with them. I just wondered how separating from the UK and applying the same trade terms to another 64% of our imports and exports would play out??

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22 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

So there will be no trade between Brexitland and the rest of Europe ? Scotland would be capable of great savings eg no nuclear weapons  replacement,  no crazy illegal wars in the middle East to pay for. 

We could always arrange pillow fights with other like minded progressive nations and swap tea cosies bearing the national flags. What a lovely existence it would be.

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24 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

We could always arrange pillow fights with other like minded progressive nations and swap tea cosies bearing the national flags. What a lovely existence it would be.

Do you still think Britain is a world super power? We are a bit part player/plaything of the USA a separate nuclear "deterent" is the vanity project to end all vanity projects.  Not one country that has gained independence from the British Empire has ever asked to be taken back over by Westminster, I wonder why? 

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42 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It's not a case of them screwing us over. Scotland and rUK will have zero say on how we trade with each other. There wouldn't be any trade talks between us. Our trading terms wiould be those negotiated by the UK and the EU this year. Sturgeon has repeatedly warned how many job losses will be incurred in Scotland because of Brexit and the affect on our 16% of trade with them. I just wondered how separating from the UK and applying the same trade terms to another 64% of our imports and exports would play out??

 

How much does Scotland import from rUK?

 

Much is made of what we export to rUK, but the reverse never seems to get mentioned.  I'd love to know!

 

Regards exporting to rUK in the event of an Independent Scotland with EU membership, then Scotland would trade with rUK as the rEU would.  

 

Would this be bad?  Who knows.  Would being independent and part of the EU be better than remaining in the UK, but out of the EU? Could those exports that went to rUK, be exported elsewhere instead?  Could we import things that came from rUK cheaper from the EU?

 

It all just seems rather vague, on both sides of the argument.

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jack D and coke
23 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

How much does Scotland import from rUK?

 

Much is made of what we export to rUK, but the reverse never seems to get mentioned.  I'd love to know!

 

Regards exporting to rUK in the event of an Independent Scotland with EU membership, then Scotland would trade with rUK as the rEU would.  

 

Would this be bad?  Who knows.  Would being independent and part of the EU be better than remaining in the UK, but out of the EU? Could those exports that went to rUK, be exported elsewhere instead?  Could we import things that came from rUK cheaper from the EU?

 

It all just seems rather vague, on both sides of the argument.

Well it would seem not for rUK anyway. Leaving the EU isn’t bad and Scotland leaving won’t be bad either, but will be for us. 
The rUK will just crush everyone around them I think. Theyll just trade with themselves. Don’t need nothing or no one. Except big Donny T he’s gonna show how big a pal he is of ours. 

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12 hours ago, JustinT said:

Only in the minds of the hard left and nationalists. The rest of us sane people forget about it as much as we can and fervently hope for the mad and bad to disappear back into the wilderness where they belong. 

You forget about it so much that you sign up to JKB so you can post over and over again about how you don't care about it

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1 hour ago, XB52 said:

You forget about it so much that you sign up to JKB so you can post over and over again about how you don't care about it

 

:rofl:

 

Honestly. He has to be a parody account. Has to be. @Saxon Hearts Mark II.

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manaliveits105

Scottish employment up 37000 but but Krankie said brexit would lose Scotland 80000 jobs hmmmm sexual nuisance party get figures wrong again ?

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10 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish employment up 37000 but but Krankie said brexit would lose Scotland 80000 jobs hmmmm sexual nuisance party get figures wrong again ?

 

Brexit hasn't really happened yet...

 

 

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3 hours ago, Boris said:

 

How much does Scotland import from rUK?

 

Much is made of what we export to rUK, but the reverse never seems to get mentioned.  I'd love to know!

 

Regards exporting to rUK in the event of an Independent Scotland with EU membership, then Scotland would trade with rUK as the rEU would.  

 

Would this be bad?  Who knows.  Would being independent and part of the EU be better than remaining in the UK, but out of the EU? Could those exports that went to rUK, be exported elsewhere instead?  Could we import things that came from rUK cheaper from the EU?

 

It all just seems rather vague, on both sides of the argument.

All moot points Boris. I was just trying to highlight the absurd paradox at the heart of the SNP that sees them arguing vehemently to stay in the EU while also articulating the importance of leaving the UK  . As 80% of our trade is outiwith the EU it is, not only nonsense on stilts but makes them a laughing stock in the eyes of most people. 

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2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

All moot points Boris. I was just trying to highlight the absurd paradox at the heart of the SNP that sees them arguing vehemently to stay in the EU while also articulating the importance of leaving the UK  . As 80% of our trade is outiwith the EU it is, not only nonsense on stilts but makes them a laughing stock in the eyes of most people. 

Most people???? Most popular party by far for the last decade with support for independence now over 50%. Laughing stock in your unionist eyes but, thankfully, you are an ever decreasing minority

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Nucky Thompson
9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Brexit hasn't really happened yet...

 

 

But all the doom and gloomers predicted that the UK economy would collapse the day after a leave victory.

The same people who predicted the disaster if we didn't join the euro years ago

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1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

But all the doom and gloomers predicted that the UK economy would collapse the day after a leave victory.

The same people who predicted the disaster if we didn't join the euro years ago

 

What about the doom and gloomers who didn't want to join the euro?

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27 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scottish employment up 37000 but but Krankie said brexit would lose Scotland 80000 jobs hmmmm sexual nuisance party get figures wrong again ?


Christ... what a depressing post/poster.

 

Reminds me why I stopped posting in the shed tbh.

 

 

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1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Most people???? Most popular party by far for the last decade with support for independence now over 50%. Laughing stock in your unionist eyes but, thankfully, you are an ever decreasing minority

Most people in Scotland neither vote for the SNP nor support separation. The nationalists need to remember that they represent less than 50% of an 8% population share of the UK. They are over represented in Westminster due to the voting system

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8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Most people in Scotland neither vote for the SNP nor support separation. The nationalists need to remember that they represent less than 50% of an 8% population share of the UK. They are over represented in Westminster due to the voting system

Not unlike the current right wing government!

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Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Most people in Scotland neither vote for the SNP nor support separation. The nationalists need to remember that they represent less than 50% of an 8% population share of the UK. They are over represented in Westminster due to the voting system


C’mon, mate, everyone can use figures to support an opinion.

Most people in England never voted for the Tories  and they spanked it !

 

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24 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

All moot points Boris. I was just trying to highlight the absurd paradox at the heart of the SNP that sees them arguing vehemently to stay in the EU while also articulating the importance of leaving the UK  . As 80% of our trade is outiwith the EU it is, not only nonsense on stilts but makes them a laughing stock in the eyes of most people. 

Yet the same argument used by the current Westminster government for leaving the EU is denied Scotland.

 

Regards trade, Ruk levels are about 56%? So that leaves 44% EU & RoW. RoW could take a hit if we go WTO?

 

Regardless, would Scotland stop trading if it became independent? Of course it wouldn't.

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Space Mackerel
2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

:rofl:

 

Honestly. He has to be a parody account. Has to be. @Saxon Hearts Mark II.

 

Thats 2 visits from new users on the Indy threads in as many weeks.

 

Might be these 77th Brigade chaps and chapesse's :lol:

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I particularly like the posts where folk trot out tired and disproved cliches like:

 

’if you want independence, why do you want to be in the EU”. When Westminster has a lot more say in Scottish affairs than Holyrood and Brussels combined.

 

or

 

‘Why aren’t they doing more for Scottish people, instead of battering on about independence’... when free higher education alone is absolutely the most powerful social democratic policy of any party in the UK.

 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy
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12 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

 

‘Why aren’t they doing more for Scottish people, instead of battering on about independence’... when free higher education alone is absolutely the most powerful social democratic policy of any party in the UK.

 

 

 

Just too funny :qqb006:

There's a restriction on the number of places for Scottish students at Scottish universities. And it's because the tuition is free. I don't know if the SG is still funding students from the EU after Brexit, but you wouldn't put it past them.

 

I can only give you give you my word that my view isn't influenced by the constitutional question, but the SNP have been absolutely awful custodians of our Education system. Just her on Education? If only the electorate judged them on their record in Education.

 

Our Education system used to be the one thing that we were all proud of. What happened?

 

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13 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Just too funny :qqb006:

There's a restriction on the number of places for Scottish students at Scottish universities. And it's because the tuition is free. I don't know if the SG is still funding students from the EU after Brexit, but you wouldn't put it past them.

 

I can only give you give you my word that my view isn't influenced by the constitutional question, but the SNP have been absolutely awful custodians of our Education system. Just her on Education? If only the electorate judged them on their record in Education.

 

Our Education system used to be the one thing that we were all proud of. What happened?

 


I work for Edinburgh University. I can tell you for a fact, Scottish students from less wealthy backgrounds have and are enjoying the opportunity to study subjects such as medicine, that they would probably not have the opportunity to elsewhere in Britain. 
 

“so funny” though, eh? 🙄

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7 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I work for Edinburgh University. I can tell you for a fact, Scottish students from less wealthy backgrounds have and are enjoying the opportunity to study subjects such as medicine, that they would probably not have the opportunity to elsewhere in Britain. 
 

“so funny” though, eh? 🙄

 

Why is that? Students at university in the other parts of the UK, don't pay tuition fees as they go through the courses, only after they graduate.

 

So is it really helping close the attainment gap. If you were Scottish middle class and likely to send your kids to university anyway, then you're quids in. 

Not sure how that helps poorer students mind?

 

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22 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Why is that? Students at university in the other parts of the UK, don't pay tuition fees as they go through the courses, only after they graduate.

 

So is it really helping close the attainment gap. If you were Scottish middle class and likely to send your kids to university anyway, then you're quids in. 

Not sure how that helps poorer students mind?

 

Unis are being encouraged to enroll students from areas classed as having multiple deprivation.

Capping numbers, btw, isn't that bad a thing. Unis down south have no caps so take on loads, but don't invest in the infrastructure and staffing to support it.

Great value for the £30 off k debt you accumulate in fees.

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4 hours ago, Boris said:

Not unlike the current right wing government!

Not disagreeing with that Boris. Still, could have been worse....could you imagine Magic Grandpa in power??

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4 hours ago, Boab said:


C’mon, mate, everyone can use figures to support an opinion.

Most people in England never voted for the Tories  and they spanked it !

 

I agree Boab.

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jambos are go!

Pretty sure I heard Martin Lewis of MoneysavingdExpert opposing changes to the Student support regime in England because hardly any body would ever have to repay anything. Anyone else hear that.

 

Many folk also believed that the Graduate Endownment system introduced by Labour following the Cubie Report was a far superior system that did  . not have to be funded by huge cuts to college places.

 

Nicola Sturgeon when she was returned to power asked primarily to be judged on how her government tackled education. So let it be.

 

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1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I work for Edinburgh University. I can tell you for a fact, Scottish students from less wealthy backgrounds have and are enjoying the opportunity to study subjects such as medicine, that they would probably not have the opportunity to elsewhere in Britain. 
 

“so funny” though, eh? 🙄

My daughter has had a great education under the SNP and is at Uni because of them, studying to be a teacher, ironically. My grandkids love school so I don't know where all this pish about poor education is coming from apart from the usual propaganda outlets. Some person will go on about pisa or whatever that no parent gives a monkeys about. 

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32 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Not disagreeing with that Boris. Still, could have been worse....could you imagine Magic Grandpa in power??

Corbyn? Would prefer him to Johnson tbh.

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1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Why is that? Students at university in the other parts of the UK, don't pay tuition fees as they go through the courses, only after they graduate.

 

So is it really helping close the attainment gap. If you were Scottish middle class and likely to send your kids to university anyway, then you're quids in. 

Not sure how that helps poorer students mind?

 


More working class kids are going to university, and not worrying about how much it will cost them. I see it every year, and it makes me feel good that they are getting those opportunities. I’m really happy to be a part of that, and that’s what I want to see happen from here on in.

 

 

Edited by Special Officer Doofy
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28 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

My daughter has had a great education under the SNP and is at Uni because of them, studying to be a teacher, ironically. My grandkids love school so I don't know where all this pish about poor education is coming from apart from the usual propaganda outlets. Some person will go on about pisa or whatever that no parent gives a monkeys about. 


Really happy to hear that, mate. Genuinely. 👍

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10 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Really happy to hear that, mate. Genuinely. 👍

Cheers. All her friends loved school too and some at Uni. All very intelligent young women. My niece is also at Uni. 

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15 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


More working class kids are going to university, and not worrying about how much it will cost them. I see it every year, and it makes me feel good that they are getting those opportunities. I’m really happy to be a part of that, and that’s what I want to see happen from here on in.

 

 

 

Is there any evidence to support the attainment gap is closing as a result of the policy? One of your colleagues isn't so sure. She's only the director of Edinburgh University Research centre in to Educational Diversity and Inclusion. If she reports in to you, you can put her straight at work tomorrow. 

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3 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Cheers. All her friends loved school too and some at Uni. All very intelligent young women. My niece is also at Uni. 

 

And don't tell us, they all used to be horrible yoons, until they were shown the road to Damascus by a racist Grandad in the Corstorphine Inn one evening? 😆

Edited by pablo
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8 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Is there any evidence to support the attainment gap is closing as a result of the policy? One of your colleagues isn't so sure. She's only the director of Edinburgh University Research centre in to Educational Diversity and Inclusion. If she reports in to you, you can put her straight at work tomorrow. 


Happy for you to pass on her details to me by PM, or to give mine to her. 

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47 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

My daughter has had a great education under the SNP and is at Uni because of them, studying to be a teacher, ironically. My grandkids love school so I don't know where all this pish about poor education is coming from apart from the usual propaganda outlets. Some person will go on about pisa or whatever that no parent gives a monkeys about. 

It’s coming from the decline over the last few years in higher passes in several subjects and the increase in students failing higher English. It’s coming in the consistent underachievement of Scottish students in maths and science compared to other countries, including England. Check out Professor Lindsay Paterson’s withering critique of the way Swinney snuck out the latest disappointing education information ( released at midnight the other day).
Using the examples of your own kids and grandkids ( mine also did well) doesn’t render current criticism invalid.

Some real Trumpian stuff in your post!

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12 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

And don't tell us, they all used to be horrible yoons, until they were shown the road to Damascus by a racist Grandad in the Corstorphine Inn one evening? 😆

Not sure what you're on about. We are talking about education under our Scottish Government. 

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1 minute ago, weehammy said:

It’s coming from the decline over the last few years in higher passes in several subjects and the increase in students failing higher English. It’s coming in the consistent underachievement of Scottish students in maths and science compared to other countries, including England. Check out Professor Lindsay Paterson’s withering critique of the way Swinney snuck out the latest disappointing education information ( released at midnight the other day).
Using the examples of your own kids and grandkids ( mine also did well) doesn’t render current criticism invalid.

Some real Trumpian stuff in your post!

Trumpian. What are you on about? 

Edited by Roxy Hearts
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jack D and coke
55 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

My daughter has had a great education under the SNP and is at Uni because of them, studying to be a teacher, ironically. My grandkids love school so I don't know where all this pish about poor education is coming from apart from the usual propaganda outlets. Some person will go on about pisa or whatever that no parent gives a monkeys about. 

This education thing is shit imo an all. My daughter and all her friends are at uni and have highers coming out their ears. 
The education of the youth is more to do with the show they watch on tv and social media. 
Conor McGregors and Kim Kardashians are more to blame. 
 

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1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Trumpian. What are you on about? 

The suggestion that concerns about falling standards comes from the ‘usual propaganda outlets’. Your version of fake news?
And pouring scorn on a respected and evidence-based research survey because, ‘no parents give a monkeys about it’.

Straight out of the Donald’s play book.

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8 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Not sure what you're on about. We are talking about education under our Scottish Government. 

 

That's your usual shtick isn't it? When you're not embarrassing yourself labelling people Uncle Toms and non Scots.

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Just now, pablo said:

 

That's your usual shtick isn't it? When you're not embarrassing yourself labelling people Uncle Toms and non Scots.

Which non Scots? 

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4 minutes ago, weehammy said:

The suggestion that concerns about falling standards comes from the ‘usual propaganda outlets’. Your version of fake news?
And pouring scorn on a respected and evidence-based research survey because, ‘no parents give a monkeys about it’.

Straight out of the Donald’s play book.

There are falling standards but I'm only giving my personal experience. Are you saying there isn't propaganda? Do you vote SNP? 

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