We Are Going Down

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

Yes. A manager who has an almost identical record to the one who's "making a total arse of things", only with the benefit of having given loads of money to shape the squad over years as DoF and manager. 

 

The same types who called people "pant wetters" etc. for complaining about Levein's rotten record for his last twelve months here bigging themselves up about "calling" the new manager two weeks after walking into the shambles left by his predecessor. Utterly nauseating.

They seem to be happy it’s not worked out for Stendel yet, somehow it makes their support for Levein justified. Nobody was happy to be proved right about Levein because of where we were, if we ate relegated and Stendel leaves will they celebrate, strange behaviour.

[Ethan Hunt]

8 minutes ago, DC_92 said:

 

Yes. A manager who has an almost identical record to the one who's "making a total arse of things", only with the benefit of having given loads of money to shape the squad over years as DoF and manager. 

 

The same types who called people "pant wetters" etc. for complaining about Levein's rotten record for his last twelve months here bigging themselves up about "calling" the new manager two weeks after walking into the shambles left by his predecessor. Utterly nauseating.

For the benefit of those “calling” Stendel. Here’s what they previously supported in the words of possibly the most respected journalist in Scotland. @Mr Elwood P might want to remind himself of just how good we had it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50259862

Edited February 18, 2020 by Ethan Hunt

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

For the benefit of those “calling” Stendel. Here’s what they previously supported in the words of possibly the most respected journalist in Scotland. @Mr Elwood P might want to remind himself of just how good we had it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50259862

Wonder what Tom English thinks now? Budge sacked Levein at the exact wrong moment.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Not sure who we could attract to be our manager in the Championship? I think Budge would have to go if we are relegated . That would take us right back to square one, only with a new stand.

Cool. Meantime, we have 11 games to avoid that scenario so 99.9% of us will back Stendel till then.

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Wonder what Tom English thinks now? Budge sacked Levein at the exact wrong moment.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 You’re at it.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 You’re at it.

You’re certainly trying Mission Impossible Mr Hunt 😜

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

This is the lead up to the penalty.

 

Admittedly it all happened pretty quickly and you need to watch in real time but there is a 5 on 3 that I would expect all teams to practice in training and work it out and get into a decent position without a goalie lump (that we haven't been winning anyway)

 

However the change in keeper appears to have played on Souttar's mind a little and he never looks at any point to want the ball when if Pereira playing, he would probably expect it.  Zlamal surprises him by doing so although it should be recignused how short Zlamal is with the ball back.  Souttar goes mental at Zlamal for not launching the initial pass that came to Zlamal - which came from Hickey.

 

Stendel imo may do some minor tweaking, but this is tear hair out as a coach of professionals and that's long before Clare's stupid tackle.

 

 

Bobby just has to clear it. 

Wtf is Souttar going to do that pass. 

 

Poor decision making. 

[Mr Elwood P]

40 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Cool. Meantime, we have 11 games to avoid that scenario so 99.9% of us will back Stendel till then.

I doubt it will take us 11 games.

 

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Bobby just has to clear it. 

Wtf is Souttar going to do that pass. 

 

Poor decision making. 

Clare at fault for me. The Hamilton player is going nowhere. Pointless

challenge! 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I doubt it will take us 11 games.

 

Clare at fault for me. The Hamilton player is going nowhere. Pointless

challenge! 

Bollox Clare at fault , was a daft challenege but Zlamal cost us that goal. Allowing for Hickeys pass Zlamal still had time to get rid he hospital passed it to Souttar and that was that. 

[James1874f]

7 hours ago, Billybuffjaw said:

If Hamilton had beaten us maybe, I don't think even the incompetent Herr Stendel will take us down. I'll take pelters here but there's no way Levein would have us bottom this far in with everyone back fit. Anyway we'll beat St Mirren Friday night and get our usual result at the Girodome.

😂😂 we have won three games in the league all season 2 of them at home and you think we will win our next 2 away league games, hope you are a betting man because I’ll bet on that 

[Kiwidoug]

If we win our next 5 games, scoring lashings of goals, can we get the thread title changed.  It's depressing me. Personally, I think there's more chance of Boris asking Jeremy to have a crack at being PM  because he's become a bit bored with it.

 

11 games to go.  Time to panic if we are still in the bottom 2 with 3 or 4 games to go.  Won't happen.

[Mr Elwood P]

9 hours ago, sadj said:

Bollox Clare at fault , was a daft challenege but Zlamal cost us that goal. Allowing for Hickeys pass Zlamal still had time to get rid he hospital passed it to Souttar and that was that. 

The goal came from the penalty. Clare gave away the penalty. The Hamilton player wasn’t in a goal scoring position when he was fouled. Not sure how anyone other than Clare can be at fault? That’s coming from someone who thinks Clare is one of the best footballers at the club and has always supported and defended him.

[Mr Elwood P]

5 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

If we win our next 5 games, scoring lashings of goals, can we get the thread title changed.  It's depressing me. Personally, I think there's more chance of Boris asking Jeremy to have a crack at being PM  because he's become a bit bored with it.

 

11 games to go.  Time to panic if we are still in the bottom 2 with 3 or 4 games to go.  Won't happen.

If we win our next five games, I’ll fly over to New Zealand and buy you a pint ...

[Nicholas Brody]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

The goal came from the penalty. Clare gave away the penalty. The Hamilton player wasn’t in a goal scoring position when he was fouled. Not sure how anyone other than Clare can be at fault? That’s coming from someone who thinks Clare is one of the best footballers at the club and has always supported and defended him.

 

Yeah it was a stupid challenge that he didn't need to make. The ball should never have been where it was in the first place but a calmer head was needed. 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

The goal came from the penalty. Clare gave away the penalty. The Hamilton player wasn’t in a goal scoring position when he was fouled. Not sure how anyone other than Clare can be at fault? That’s coming from someone who thinks Clare is one of the best footballers at the club and has always supported and defended him.

 

 

Pretty much because many folk think the ball should have been launched by Bobby. 

 

Bobby created the whole situation by firing the ball at Souttar, Souttar lost the ball, Clare put in a silly tackle. 

 

All at fault but Bobby just had to clear his lines and all was avoided. 

[TheOak88]

11 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Blindly backing a manager, who is clearly

making a total arse of things, is totally embarrassing.

 

 

 

 

Your lack of self awareness is staggering. 

 

You really don’t have a clue, do you. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Pretty much because many folk think the ball should have been launched by Bobby. 

 

Bobby created the whole situation by firing the ball at Souttar, Souttar lost the ball, Clare put in a silly tackle. 

 

All at fault but Bobby just had to clear his lines and all was avoided. 

I think normally he would’ve. Has he been told to try play it out and as usual with Bobby he makes schoolboy errors? That was one time he should’ve went long. Clares tackle was reckless too though. A cluster**** of a goal tbh. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I think normally he would’ve. Has he been told to try play it out and as usual with Bobby he makes schoolboy errors? That was one time he should’ve went long. Clares tackle was reckless too though. A cluster**** of a goal tbh. 

 

 

Yip. 

 

Ridiculous. Just gifting a second goal. 

 

Decision making on when to mix it up still has to come down to the players. 

[indianajones]

10 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

when it becomes a mathematical certainty, yes, we are going down. 

until then...

 

This. 

 

I still think we're making it. 

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Pretty much because many folk think the ball should have been launched by Bobby. 

 

Bobby created the whole situation by firing the ball at Souttar, Souttar lost the ball, Clare put in a silly tackle. 

 

All at fault but Bobby just had to clear his lines and all was avoided. 

Was Bobby under instruction to launch the ball? Folk wanted to play football. Playing football creates lots of dangerous situations and lots of chances for the opposition players. 

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Your lack of self awareness is staggering. 

 

You really don’t have a clue, do you. 

Do you think an anonymous contributor, to an internet football forum, has the capacity for self awareness?

[TheOak88]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Do you think an anonymous contributor, to an internet football forum, has the capacity for self awareness?

 

Deflection as usual. 

 

I do not think of you as anonymous as I have seen you at games now and again. 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Was Bobby under instruction to launch the ball? Folk wanted to play football. Playing football creates lots of dangerous situations and lots of chances for the opposition players. 

 

Bobby needs to make a better decision on the pass, as does Clare in the tackle. 

 

You can play football and still clear your lines sometimes. 

 

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Deflection as usual. 

 

I do not think of you as anonymous as I have seen you at games now and again. 

Which part of the stadium was this? 

[TheOak88]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Which part of the stadium was this? 

 

On the concourse. Not sure what difference it makes. 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

On the concourse. Not sure what difference it makes. 

Just intrigued to know how you would identify me?

[TheOak88]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Just intrigued to know how you would identify me?

 

By the area of the stadium?

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, TheOak88 said:

 

By the area of the stadium?

If you correctly identified the area of the stadium, I would know if you were talking nonsense or not.

[Locky]

11 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

I don’t think you have ever given a straight answer to a single question I’ve asked? Blindly backing a manager, who is clearly

making a total arse of things, is totally embarrassing.

 

I get it. Everyone said Levein was the worst case scenario. 6th place was totally unacceptable. We couldn’t possibly get any worse.

 

Step forward Herr Stendel.
 

If Stendel had gone to Hibs and we’d got Jack Ross, we’d be killing ourselves laughing right now. Folk can’t see it yet but Stendel is complete disaster, which I called back in December. I also got grief

and abuse back then. Eagerly looking forward to contrition and apologies, when it all becomes clear to those that can’t see what is in front of you!

 

As much as I backed Levein almost until the bitter end, I don't know how you can make that comparison regarding 6th place. We weren't 6th when Stendel took over. We haven't got worse since Stendel took over, and that's a fact.

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, Locky said:

As much as I backed Levein almost until the bitter end, I don't know how you can make that comparison regarding 6th place. We weren't 6th when Stendel took over. We haven't got worse since Stendel took over, and that's a fact.

Folk said 6th place was unacceptable and we should be third as a minimum. Now we’re 12th. We’ve gone from 11th under Levein to 12th under Stendel, not sure which facts support that not being a worse position? 

[Locky]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Folk said 6th place was unacceptable and we should be third as a minimum. Now we’re 12th. We’ve gone from 11th under Levein to 12th under Stendel, not sure which facts support that not being a worse position? 

6th place was unacceptable 3 seasons in a row, but Levein was sacked for being 11th, not 6th. I never said we were in a worse position, I said we haven't got worse since Stendel came in. Anyone who watches us can surely see that. Results haven't improved yet, certainly not to a degree that we need them to. But I honestly can't fathom the finger pointing at a guy who's only been at the club for 2 months. Is hard as it is for me to criticise someone like Craig Levein, we were god awful in the first 11 games. I mean, truly awful. Too difficult to even watch. Under Stendel, we have far more of the ball, and create far more chances than earlier in the campaign. It's only a matter of time before that surely turns to results.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Locky said:

6th place was unacceptable 3 seasons in a row, but Levein was sacked for being 11th, not 6th. I never said we were in a worse position, I said we haven't got worse since Stendel came in. Anyone who watches us can surely see that. Results haven't improved yet, certainly not to a degree that we need them to. But I honestly can't fathom the finger pointing at a guy who's only been at the club for 2 months. Is hard as it is for me to criticise someone like Craig Levein, we were god awful in the first 11 games. I mean, truly awful. Too difficult to even watch. Under Stendel, we have far more of the ball, and create far more chances than earlier in the campaign. It's only a matter of time before that surely turns to results.

In those 11 Premiership games we drew 2-2 with Hamilton, lost 3-2 to both Aberdeen and Motherwell, won 1-2 at Easter Road and drew 1-1 with Rangers. A lot of goals being scored at both ends, very similar score lines to the current run. Finger pointing at Stendel is due to time running out and quickly. He started off playing Moore and Henderson ahead of Meshino and Walker. We need match winners on the park, not runners. I don’t think he’s making the correct decisions. The most likely outcome is that Stendel and most of the players will be away and we’ll be in the Championship. This will give us the opportunity to do a full re set!

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

In those 11 Premiership games we drew 2-2 with Hamilton, lost 3-2 to both Aberdeen and Motherwell, won 1-2 at Easter Road and drew 1-1 with Rangers. A lot of goals being scored at both ends, very similar score lines to the current run. Finger pointing at Stendel is due to time running out and quickly. He started off playing Moore and Henderson ahead of Meshino and Walker. We need match winners on the park, not runners. I don’t think he’s making the correct decisions. The most likely outcome is that Stendel and most of the players will be away and we’ll be in the Championship. This will give us the opportunity to do a full re set!

Your argument about Levein sometimes leans towards him achieving the same results as he had in the past. For me, this seemed unlikely, by the St Johnstone game the players looked like they had nothing left.

 

I agree with a small amount of your opinions on Stendel but realistically we're stuck with him and you're right, relegation and a summer clear out seems increasingly likely. 

[Locky]

7 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

In those 11 Premiership games we drew 2-2 with Hamilton, lost 3-2 to both Aberdeen and Motherwell, won 1-2 at Easter Road and drew 1-1 with Rangers. A lot of goals being scored at both ends, very similar score lines to the current run. Finger pointing at Stendel is due to time running out and quickly. He started off playing Moore and Henderson ahead of Meshino and Walker. We need match winners on the park, not runners. I don’t think he’s making the correct decisions. The most likely outcome is that Stendel and most of the players will be away and we’ll be in the Championship. This will give us the opportunity to do a full re set!

Sadly, we won't really know until the end of the season. I still think given time, Stendel will be the man for the job, but right now we need to just get through this shitty phase. I'm just really fed up of the infighting and finger pointing this season. We were shite under Levein and McPhee, slightly less shite IMO under Stendel, but there's only one outcome as far as I'm concerned, and that's safety. And then the onus has to be on a fresh start.

[Hackney Hearts]

26 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 Now we’re 12th. We’ve gone from 11th under Levein to 12th under Stendel, not sure which facts support that not being a worse position? 

 

 You were answering the claim: "We haven't got worse since Stendel took over"

 

Another way of looking at it, and a different set of facts, is to point out that DS took 0 points from his first 4 games (arguably the Levein/McPhee hangover) and has since averaged a point a game (7 from 7) - which would suggest we haven't got worse since Stendel took over. We may be in a worse league position than when he walked in the door, but the graph of results over time is showing a clear upward trend. 

 

Some teams get an instant (perhaps transient) new manager bounce - in other cases the effect is more like turning round an oil tanker, it takes a while, especially if there's a new footballing philosophy involved.

[sadj]

54 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Your argument about Levein sometimes leans towards him achieving the same results as he had in the past. For me, this seemed unlikely, by the St Johnstone game the players looked like they had nothing left.

 

I agree with a small amount of your opinions on Stendel but realistically we're stuck with him and you're right, relegation and a summer clear out seems increasingly likely. 

I’d rather no matter what , that we stick with Stendel and see what he can do with a summer window. 
 

I think he is having to tinker with his own philosophy to try and get results. A more experienced manager would have most likely done what Levein did , try to block up one end and hope to pick up points. Stendel hasn’t done that but his record suggests he can sort a defensive side of things whilst getting results.

 

I still think we will be ok but even if that goes tits up , I think he is the correct man to change our direction and integrate the philosophy of the younger teams and first team properly. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

I’d rather no matter what , that we stick with Stendel and see what he can do with a summer window. 
 

I think he is having to tinker with his own philosophy to try and get results. A more experienced manager would have most likely done what Levein did , try to block up one end and hope to pick up points. Stendel hasn’t done that but his record suggests he can sort a defensive side of things whilst getting results.

 

I still think we will be ok but even if that goes tits up , I think he is the correct man to change our direction and integrate the philosophy of the younger teams and first team properly. 

If it were up to me he'd get the summer and if we stay up he surely will. I'm fairly convinced we'll go down though and I'm not convinced wither Hearts or Stendel himself would want him to stay.

 

What I would say is these players have now played under the most defensive style and the most attacking style with similar results. The assumption by some that a coach with a style somewhere in the middle would've got better results than DS is not one i agree with. 

[Section Q]

Levein couldn't attack and Stendel can't defend and that about sums it up. 

 

[JimCornette]

1 hour ago, Section Q said:

Levein couldn't attack and Stendel can't defend and that about sums it up. 

 

That points to the players being gutless, talentless bleeps.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

Levein couldn't attack and Stendel can't defend and that about sums it up. 

 

 

He could, just not with McLean as his only fit experienced striker for months on end.

[Nicholas Brody]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He could, just not with McLean as his only fit experienced striker for months on end.

 

He probably should have invested in another striker then.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

6 minutes ago, Nicholas Brody said:

 

He probably should have invested in another striker then.

 

A better one than Vanacek certainly. This is an old debate though but the injuries did happen and he did lose Naismith and Uche at a very unfortunate time in terms of getting replacements and he did then lose Naismith (again), Walker and Washington at the start of the following season, again after the transfer window had closed.

 

The equivalent would be Stendel losing Naismith, Walker and Boyce now. Although he does have Uche and Washington so we're slightly better equipped to cope with injuries up front. Our back-ups to the likes of Naismith and Boyce though are always going to be of a significantly lesser quality. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[sadj]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

A better one than Vanacek certainly. This is an old debate though but the injuries did happen and he did lose Naismith and Uche at a very unfortunate time in terms of getting replacements and he did then lose Naismith (again), Walker and Washington at the start of the following season, again after the transfer window had closed.

 

The equivalent would be Stendel losing Naismith, Walker and Boyce now. Although he does have Uche and Washington so we're slightly better equipped to cope with injuries up front. Our back-ups to the likes of Naismith and Boyce though are always going to be of a significantly lesser quality. 

walker is an interesting one. Hes been poor most of the season. Was decent v Utd in the first league cup game thats about it. Since he came back into the team he’s been one of our better players , head up and looked to create , shoot or drive at defenders. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He could, just not with McLean as his only fit experienced striker for months on end.

Vanecek was a disaster

Edited February 18, 2020 by pettigrewsstylist

[Tokyo Drifter]

To return to the topic, I don't think we will go down. Even if we lose to St Midden, 11th place is still achievable as long as we more or less stay in touch with Accies. I think we may actually pick up points against the Sheep and the Flumps and I can't help thinking that we're going to perform better (or not perform any worse) away from home, post-split - as long as we don't have County away. The players get so edgy and nervous and brittle at Tynie, and getting booed off at half time can't help the morale much.

 

Another point: I've just watched the highlights from Saturday and we should have BURIED Accies. Could easily have been four or five goals to two, even with us giving them a brace as a starting gift.

 

Keep the faith people.

[Pasquale for King]

53 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

To return to the topic, I don't think we will go down. Even if we lose to St Midden, 11th place is still achievable as long as we more or less stay in touch with Accies. I think we may actually pick up points against the Sheep and the Flumps and I can't help thinking that we're going to perform better (or not perform any worse) away from home, post-split - as long as we don't have County away. The players get so edgy and nervous and brittle at Tynie, and getting booed off at half time can't help the morale much.

 

Another point: I've just watched the highlights from Saturday and we should have BURIED Accies. Could easily have been four or five goals to two, even with us giving them a brace as a starting gift.

 

Keep the faith people.

Spot on.

[Bazzas right boot]

55 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

To return to the topic, I don't think we will go down. Even if we lose to St Midden, 11th place is still achievable as long as we more or less stay in touch with Accies. I think we may actually pick up points against the Sheep and the Flumps and I can't help thinking that we're going to perform better (or not perform any worse) away from home, post-split - as long as we don't have County away. The players get so edgy and nervous and brittle at Tynie, and getting booed off at half time can't help the morale much.

 

Another point: I've just watched the highlights from Saturday and we should have BURIED Accies. Could easily have been four or five goals to two, even with us giving them a brace as a starting gift.

 

Keep the faith people.

 

Agreed. 

 

But it was concerning how much they Outplayed us in the first 20 minutes. 

Ridiculous. 

[Section Q]

5 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He could, just not with McLean as his only fit experienced striker for months on end.

He had Vanecek but he was insulted publicly by Levein by then.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 hour ago, Section Q said:

He had Vanecek but he was insulted publicly by Levein by then.

 

Yeah Vanacek's a whole other issue. I think he had McLean as the only fit striker for 3 mths before he arrived though. Very unlucky with not just the injuries but the timing.

 

If you look up our best players on www.transfermarkt.us for the last 2/3 of that season and the start of this, the amount of red indicating injured is incredible.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

To return to the topic, I don't think we will go down. Even if we lose to St Midden, 11th place is still achievable as long as we more or less stay in touch with Accies. I think we may actually pick up points against the Sheep and the Flumps and I can't help thinking that we're going to perform better (or not perform any worse) away from home, post-split - as long as we don't have County away. The players get so edgy and nervous and brittle at Tynie, and getting booed off at half time can't help the morale much.

 

Another point: I've just watched the highlights from Saturday and we should have BURIED Accies. Could easily have been four or five goals to two, even with us giving them a brace as a starting gift.

 

Keep the faith people.

Getting booed off at half time throws the players CL  recruited?  I thought the main criterion in recruitment  in the CL era was character? Well.no on the evidence I didn't think it was but I distinctly remember it being claimed by the CL regime.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Francis Albert