We Are Going Down

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

And there it is.

 

Well what do you think Levein's system would be with these players? 
 

He'd play something like this team looking at current availability and fitness:

 

Zlamal

Smith Halkett Souttar Hickey

Walker Irving/Damour Clare Meshino

Naismith Boyce

 

or

 

Zlamal

Smith Halkett Souttar Hickey

Clare Irving/Damour Walker 

Naismith Boyce Washington

 

He'd set up not to lose an early goal away and at home would take the game to the opposition more. And it's very possible we'd still have Boyce as he's always been big fan. 

 

Listen I wanted Levein gone by the end ( couldn't see how things could get worse but they have!) and I like Stendel and want him to turn things around but it's not widely controversial to believe we'd be picking up more points under him with all the players we now have back. It's all ifs and buts now anyhow.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Mort said:

By reserves I assume you refer to the poor squad that was assembled by CL? We have been in regulation form for nearly a calendar year. The rot was set long ago.

 

Yes, the reserves weren't up to it and he failed to motivate them and get them playing well. He didn't sign them to be first team regulars though if that's what you mean, just like Rangers didn't sign Kamberi to be a regular or Celtic with Jack Hendry.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Motherwell have ****ed us right up since late December.

 

It's grim.

Not won a game in 8 over two competitions, who have they got next who have a reputation for helping teams out when they need it most 🤔🙈.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Well what do you think Levein's system would be with these players? 
 

He'd play something like this team looking at current availability and fitness:

 

Zlamal

Smith Halkett Souttar Hickey

Walker Irving/Damour Clare Meshino

Naismith Boyce

 

or

 

Zlamal

Smith Halkett Souttar Hickey

Clare Irving/Damour Walker 

Naismith Boyce Washington

 

He'd set up not to lose an early goal away and at home would take the game to the opposition more. And it's very possible we'd still have Boyce as he's always been big fan. 

 

Listen I wanted Levein gone by the end ( couldn't see how things could get worse but they have!) and I like Stendel and want him to turn things around but it's not widely controversial to believe we'd be picking up more points under him with all the players we now have back. It's all ifs and buts now anyhow.

I doubt we would’ve got Boyce as we had to make space in the squad and the wage bill, who would he have got rid off to make space? The evidence of how he would play and the results are there in black and white over his last year in charge. There is no proof that Stendel will get us out of Leveins mess but we have to hope and support him.

[Pasquale for King]

30 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Well they didn’t suit Levein’s system either so whose system do you think they could maybe suit?

I don't think there is one, we defend deep with ten players and we lose goals and don’t score, we attack with 8 players and score goals and lose more. Three managers, every different system, same results. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I doubt we would’ve got Boyce as we had to make space in the squad and the wage bill, who would he have got rid off to make space? The evidence of how he would play and the results are there in black and white over his last year in charge. There is no proof that Stendel will get us out of Leveins mess but we have to hope and support him.

 

The evidence is how we played when he had his best players available. I absolutely support Stendel but the discussion was around systems and Levein would *probably* have a better chance of using the players we now have to get us out of this fix. And yes I know he got us into it, just like other Hearts managers who have had us down at the bottom but who have been able to pull us out.

 

My main beef with Levein right from when he got the manager job was he didn't seem to be motivated to be Hearts manager and that might have communicated itself to the players. He shouldn't have taken the job on on a permanent basis if he didn't really want to be Hearts manager. The start to season 18/19 with his rebuilt squad convinced me he still had it. But whatever motivational and tactical ability he used to have he seemed to completely lose it when the injuries hit. I thought Stendel seemed like a much better man manager and motivator which is what I thought we needed. It hasn't turned out that way so far unfortunately. Plenty time though. We should stay up.

Edited February 26, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[ArcticJambo]

2 hours ago, HardcoreJambo said:

Sickening. Honestly didn't see this happening at the start of the season.

Mods?

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yes, the reserves weren't up to it and he failed to motivate them and get them playing well. He didn't sign them to be first team regulars though if that's what you mean, just like Rangers didn't sign Kamberi to be a regular or Celtic with Jack Hendry.

Your so called superstars weren’t up to it either.  You must have thought we had really strong teams out first couple of league games against Aberdeen and Ross County.  Naismith, Souttar, Washington, Halkett and Walker all featuring in these games (4 of them in both games), yet we only got 1 lucky point from the 2 games (Ross County should have hammered us).  
 

That was on top of dismal performances against lower league opposition in the League Cup group stages (again with many of these so called star players playing), which in turn was on the back of a dreadful 6/7 final months the previous season.  The alarm bells should have already been ringing, yet the fact that we’re now bottom of the league is actually a surprise to some people, despite being the worst team in the league for around 16 months now.

[Shanks]

It should be near impossible for us to finish bottom with our resources and the amount we spend on wages.

 

The blame lies with Levein and Budge, eye watering levels of incompetence from them for the past few years.  Can't wait until we get them both to ****.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Who’s fault is it for Budge?

FoH

[Jambo 4 Ever]

On 15/02/2020 at 17:02, Finlay James said:

No we're not

😂

[Leveins Battalion]

We ain't getting out of this mess,that's for sure.

 

Now I hope whoever's is in control of HMFC thinks long and hard about where this club is going.

 

Budge has to go,she cannot stay on.Levein,Macphee,scouting department all need to follow.

 

Sadly Stendel is not the man for us either,we need to start from scratch,unforgivable mismanagement.

[1971fozzy]

Budge 😂😂

what a cows arse she’s made of this club now after all she’s done. To get it all wrong for backing her laddy too long.

tragic

 

and he is still on the payroll. Tell you what , if she keeps him on the she can forget about selling me a season ticket again. It’s an absolute disgrace he is still an employee

Edited February 26, 2020 by 1971fozzy

[Sarah O]

Been saying it for weeks and weeks and was convinced that when we were bottom at xmas that we were favourites to go down. Stats and history of other teams in this predicament don't lie.

 

People have been sleepwalking into this, complete with fingers in their ears singing away. Thinking we are too big, too good to go down. Stendel will save us! 

 

Again with the stats: He's been a disaster. We've been a disaster and the only way is doon.  I hope I'm wrong.

[Finlay James]

43 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

😂

 

😂😂 I do love when the wee team come on here.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

It wasn’t, I was asking which manager you felt had a system that would suit our players.  

 

CL has he finished 6th in both seasons. 

 

Stendel's style is at best un proven, at worse not working. 

 

Time will tell. 

 

 

[Section Q]

10 hours ago, Hairdryer said:

Stendel wrong man at anytime 

Hope not. But maybe we could have done with a manager with more experience considering our position. Also wonder if we should've brought in an experienced local assistant for Stendel. I know hindsight is easy but we've gone from being top heavy with coaches, to light on the ground.

[Italian Lambretta]

1 hour ago, Leveins Battalion said:

We ain't getting out of this mess,that's for sure.

 

Now I hope whoever's is in control of HMFC thinks long and hard about where this club is going.

 

Budge has to go,she cannot stay on.Levein,Macphee,scouting department all need to follow.

 

Sadly Stendel is not the man for us either,we need to start from scratch,unforgivable mismanagement.

I suspect they will now be drawing up plans for life in the Championship.

Stendel will go and John Robertson will become Manager.

As for anything else thats anyones guess. One thing for sure Its going to be ****ing a miserable season.

Might as well get rid of the Michelen star chef as well there will be no need for a fancy restaurant where we're playing.

 

[Nelly Terraces]

Stendel has to ditch his style & go for a simple match up formation wise with our remaining opposition & put faith in our players being better than theres man for man.  Do we have a better 1st 11 than St Murren,  Hamilton etc? Even after all their failures I believe so.

 

The situation is now desperate & we need to approach things in a different way.  

[David McCaig]

7 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Stendel has to ditch his style & go for a simple match up formation wise with our remaining opposition & put faith in our players being better than theres man for man.  Do we have a better 1st 11 than St Murren,  Hamilton etc? Even after all their failures I believe so.

 

The situation is now desperate & we need to approach things in a different way.  

100%

[Dayman]

9 hours ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Unfortunately, that is sadly not true. St Mirren have beaten Motherwell twice, Ross County just beat Aberdeen at Pitoddrie, St Johnstone have gone on a fine run, as have Kilmarnock. It seems to me to be between Accies and us.

 

As we seem incapable of beating anyone, with eleven games left would eleven draws keep us up??

I see what you're saying, but I think that says more about the quality of the rest of the league than anything. Outside Celtic, this is the worst level the SPL has been in a while i'd say. It is competitive though, which is good. 

[The Mighty Thor]

24 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Stendel has to ditch his style & go for a simple match up formation wise with our remaining opposition & put faith in our players being better than theres man for man.  Do we have a better 1st 11 than St Murren,  Hamilton etc? Even after all their failures I believe so.

 

The situation is now desperate & we need to approach things in a different way.  

I agree but it isn't going to happen. 

 

Stendel has plan A and plan A.

 

We're in the shit big time.

[jock _turd]

Too much negativity going down here! St Mirren win so we are going down... well if the team and manager think in the same way the dramatists on here do we are a cert to go down. We have still to play them twice FFS we are not cut adrift at the bottom yet! The table does not lie were are bottom BUT if you look at the results of the last five games played we have gained two points more than Hamilton and only one point less than St Mirren ... who are undeniably on a run. Football is a strange game you just cannot predict what will happen but if we can get a win at Easter road things change dramatically...as will the mood of the dramatists on here.

I repeat I hate where we are BUT if a team two wins above us in the table are not catch-able with 11 games left to play why the F do we even bother even trying!

[H2]

10 hours ago, GBJambo said:

Absolutely we are going down. There is no fight in this team. 

That statement is way off the mark, one thing the team doesn't lack is fight.

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree but it isn't going to happen. 

 

Stendel has plan A and plan A.

 

We're in the shit big time.

If he’s sticking with plan A then it needs to start working big time. We can’t afford to attempt to ride our luck defensively every game. 

[Rudy T]

10 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

Too much negativity going down here! St Mirren win so we are going down... well if the team and manager think in the same way the dramatists on here do we are a cert to go down. We have still to play them twice FFS we are not cut adrift at the bottom yet! The table does not lie were are bottom BUT if you look at the results of the last five games played we have gained two points more than Hamilton and only one point less than St Mirren ... who are undeniably on a run. Football is a strange game you just cannot predict what will happen but if we can get a win at Easter road things change dramatically...as will the mood of the dramatists on here.

I repeat I hate where we are BUT if a team two wins above us in the table are not catch-able with 11 games left to play why the F do we even bother even trying!

 

I think we have to face the reality of a play off place at best and anything else is a bonus... I've lost count now of all the must win games we've had in recent weeks and failed to do so. Hamilton are in our sights I'm not so sure anyone else is. Its hardly being dramatic suggesting a team with only 3 league wins in 27 (and thats just this season) might struggle to win many more of the remaining games. 

[jock _turd]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree but it isn't going to happen. 

 

Stendel has plan A and plan A.

 

We're in the shit big time.

 

So presumably you would revert to a Leveinesque style of play then ? You know they very style of play that actually got us to where we are now ! Lets be plain here the reason we are foot of the table is nothing at all to do with Stendel's methods but everything to do with the mess he left for any new manager taking over. Player's who were/are devoid of any confidence or passion to play a pass let alone an entire game. WE have lost two from our last 9 games two of which involved Rangers and Celtic games you would put your house on us losing. We have not won the big games but that is more down to the players than it is Stendel they , mainly defensively, have struggled to adapt to what he wants them to do. It is a work in progress under extreme pressure, which could easily have been avoided had Levein been, rightly, sacked immediately after the cup final.

[jock _turd]

Just now, Rudy T said:

 

I think we have to face the reality of a play off place at best and anything else is a bonus... I've lost count now of all the must win games we've had in recent weeks and failed to do so. Hamilton are in our sights I'm not so sure anyone else is. Its hardly being dramatic suggesting a team with only 3 league wins in 27 (and thats just this season) might struggle to win many more of the remaining games. 

The difference between winning and losing is very often down to player confidence... something that Levein drained from every player under him. WE have a few players who can on their day be match winners they have to recapture that spark. I am talking about players like Naismith,Walker, Souttar, Washington, Smith and Uche. As I said on a previous post if we cannot believe that catching a team two wins in front of us with 11 games to play is possible then we may as well give it up now. I am certainly not of that character... I sincerely hope the manager and players are not either.

[Rudy T]

22 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

The difference between winning and losing is very often down to player confidence... something that Levein drained from every player under him. WE have a few players who can on their day be match winners they have to recapture that spark. I am talking about players like Naismith,Walker, Souttar, Washington, Smith and Uche. As I said on a previous post if we cannot believe that catching a team two wins in front of us with 11 games to play is possible then we may as well give it up now. I am certainly not of that character... I sincerely hope the manager and players are not either.

 

I’m hoping they don’t either, and recent matches suggest we have at least got some fight about us. Unfortunately we still not brimming with confidence and we’re not getting results despite, as you rightly point out, having enough quality to beat every team in the league.

 

I love Stendels approach and philosophy but we don’t have the team to fully implement it. We don’t press as a unit we just run about at 100 miles an hour and play far to high a line to accommodate our unbalanced slow midfield. He needs to find the balance, without losing our goal threat, then we have a chance but if we keep giving away cheap goals we’re going to struggle.

[luckydug]

3 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

We ain't getting out of this mess,that's for sure.

 

Now I hope whoever's is in control of HMFC thinks long and hard about where this club is going.

 

Budge has to go,she cannot stay on.Levein,Macphee,scouting department all need to follow.

 

Sadly Stendel is not the man for us either,we need to start from scratch,unforgivable mismanagement.

Somebody will have to stay to decide who is to go. 

Who is stayinng to organise the clear out ? 

[Victorian]

The window of opportunity ( likely or reasonable chance of escape ) is narrowing... FAST.      We could soon face the same gap(s) we started with after the winter break.      

 

If we get back into that situation,    it is still possible to take further drastic action.     

 

Nothing against Stendel but I don't think he's going to do it.     Someone else could perform a Houdini act.

[jack D and coke]

12 hours ago, Bozi said:

Unfortunately I think we are going down, I don't blame stendel though.

 

The malaise about the club has gone on too long,  levein shouldn't have got another season, it shouldn't have taken 5 weeks to appoint a manager particularly when it threw him into a hectic run of games with no time to really work with the team. 

The gutless players all need to take a long hard look at themselves, spineless, primadonnas 

We are down, and we have none to blame but ourselves

Yeah it’s how I’m feeling too man😕

It feels like the club needs reset though. Levein and his shambles of a 5 year plan and we’re heading back to where we started. 
What a ****ing disgrace. 
 

[jambopilms]

We are going down. I actually think levein would have picked up more wins than DS. Pressing is good against teams who want to play football, which rules out 90% of Scottish teams. And since we advertised the fact we will press, every team turns up and presses themselves and actually do it better than us. Nobody gives away soft goals like us 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 hours ago, Finlay James said:

 

😂😂 I do love when the wee team come on here.

 

 

Umm what you on about?

[Bozi]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah it’s how I’m feeling too man😕

It feels like the club needs reset though. Levein and his shambles of a 5 year plan and we’re heading back to where we started. 
What a ****ing disgrace. 
 

That's it mate, I am an optimist usually and believe we can pull it round but it feels like we have sleep walked into this situation. It's not just 3 league wins all season it goes back to about January last year,  I think its terminal unfortunately. 

 

Stendel has worked hard at implementing a style but the players are do devoid of confidence going back over a year that they seem incapable of carrying out the instructions, are making basic,fatal decisions and don't seem to have the wherewithal to pull themselves up. I don't think it matters anymore who the manager is, levein has left the club in a palliative state 

[kila]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Wonder if Boyce has a relegation clause...😳😬

 

If most did:

 

 

                                   Doyle

 

Brandon     Dikamona      Halkett         White 

 

                    Cochrane        Irving

 

                Moore       Walker       Henderson

 

                                   Uche

 

 

 

[HKP]

3 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

We are going down. I actually think levein would have picked up more wins than DS. Pressing is good against teams who want to play football, which rules out 90% of Scottish teams. And since we advertised the fact we will press, every team turns up and presses themselves and actually do it better than us. Nobody gives away soft goals like us 

It's certainly looking more like it now. On your point of the pressing game, we don't play a high press only a high line as we don't actually press anybody. We seem to just position ourselves in the opposition half but don't close anybody down quick enough. Whether Stendel can change our fortunes with what he's got is looking slimmer by the week

[gowestjambo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree but it isn't going to happen. 

 

Stendel has plan A and plan A.

 

We're in the shit big time.

 

It would not be so bad if Plan A was working....

 

It is his job to get the maximum out of the resources available to him. He has not acheived this so far - it is time he did!!

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, Bozi said:

That's it mate, I am an optimist usually and believe we can pull it round but it feels like we have sleep walked into this situation. It's not just 3 league wins all season it goes back to about January last year,  I think its terminal unfortunately. 

 

Stendel has worked hard at implementing a style but the players are do devoid of confidence going back over a year that they seem incapable of carrying out the instructions, are making basic,fatal decisions and don't seem to have the wherewithal to pull themselves up. I don't think it matters anymore who the manager is, levein has left the club in a palliative state 

I think we have to realise we have a poor team with poor players in crucial positions. Goalkeepers are frankly a bad joke. Nobody scores any goals from our midfield which is as poor as I can remember. We have one or two players in Naismith (he’s not playing well though atm) Boyce, Walker when fit and that’s about it.

I said a while ago I’d have accepted 10th or even the play off when people kept saying we’ll start heading for top 6. I just hoped for survival. I’m starting to feel we might not even have enough to achieve that.  
It feels like a lot of people have started to see the reality here. I sincerely hope the players see it now too. What a pathetic squad of ****ing failures. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Hansel]

We should have gone for Stuart McCall imo. Knows the league and is good at motivating. Good record at Motherwell 

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

What happens if say we get a doing at Easter Road, does this mean that Stendel gets his marching orders?  Is it then down to Gary Locke to perform mission impossible?  See that statement I have just typed it sounds absolutely horrible and terrifies me but I am a the stage I am looking to see how this is going to pan out and I don't have a clue.  It's getting close to real panic for me.  Every ****ing result not involving us is just going against us.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

What happens if say we get a doing at Easter Road, does this mean that Stendel gets his marching orders?  Is it then down to Gary Locke to perform mission impossible?  See that statement I have just typed it sounds absolutely horrible and terrifies me but I am a the stage I am looking to see how this is going to pan out and I don't have a clue.  It's getting close to real panic for me.  Every ****ing result not involving us is just going against us.

I thoughts weeks and weeks ago it already panic stations. I couldn’t believe others weren't seeing it. We’ve been on the downward spiral for a year and a half. 
Some people think just emptying Stendel and getting JJ and Gary Locke or Robbo is going to save us. I’ve got news for them. 

[amadjambo]

Just about every team that’s been near the bottom this season has gone on a wee run that has dragged them safe, the latest being Ross County.

 

We are in an almighty scrap with Hamilton and St Mirren, two teams that know how to fight for their safety. 
 

Time for our big earners to step up, take responsibility, and drag us up the table. This is not a time for the chicken hearted.

 

Frankly couldn’t give a shit about Saturday now, despite shelling out £30 for a ticket. Hibs, Motherwell and St Mirren games will go a long way to deciding our future.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

So presumably you would revert to a Leveinesque style of play then ? You know they very style of play that actually got us to where we are now ! Lets be plain here the reason we are foot of the table is nothing at all to do with Stendel's methods but everything to do with the mess he left for any new manager taking over. Player's who were/are devoid of any confidence or passion to play a pass let alone an entire game. WE have lost two from our last 9 games two of which involved Rangers and Celtic games you would put your house on us losing. We have not won the big games but that is more down to the players than it is Stendel they , mainly defensively, have struggled to adapt to what he wants them to do. It is a work in progress under extreme pressure, which could easily have been avoided had Levein been, rightly, sacked immediately after the cup final.

Let's get the Levein bogeyman out the way right now. 

I'm talking about the current manager's ability to pick up more points than the teams round about us. 

That starts with us not being Hearts -2 before we kick a ball in a game. That's down to his formations and tactics, not Levein's. 

We need points. We need wins. I couldn't give a shiny shite how impressive the gegenpress is. If the players can't do it. Don't do it. His two priorities are

1. Points. 

2. Wins.

 

 

[Boris]

It'll be tight, but I think we will stay up.

[hmfc_liam06]

I've remained positive but last night was a huge blow. It is really looking bleak.

[jock _turd]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Let's get the Levein bogeyman out the way right now. 

I'm talking about the current manager's ability to pick up more points than the teams round about us. 

That starts with us not being Hearts -2 before we kick a ball in a game. That's down to his formations and tactics, not Levein's. 

We need points. We need wins. I couldn't give a shiny shite how impressive the gegenpress is. If the players can't do it. Don't do it. His two priorities are

1. Points. 

2. Wins.

 

 

 

Something disnae add up here "Mighty Thor" You are talking like a "big lassie" ! There are few managers if any who would have taken Levein's band of confidence sapped player and suddenly have started winning game's by magic. I will grant you he has not set the heather alight BUT This is more down to the players than the manager had the right thing been done and he started the season rather than being given a team at the bottom of the table I personally think things would have been very different... and definitely in the recruitment of players. As to the picking up of points we have over the last five games two more than Hamilton and one less than St Mirren. It is not going to be easy but we go forward We are the Hearts... a win against "Them" and yet again the dramatists on here will be reading from a different hymn sheet... we shall see.

edit

Regardless of the actual manager we ended up with AB yet again completely F'd up by taking an age to hire a new manager! This was yet another major mistake by her and it cost us points due to Mchapless being in charge for vital games. The woman may have saved us from extinction BUT has been found severely wanting when it has come to football matters and continues to allow the source of our original problems on site bizarre does not cover it!

Edited February 26, 2020 by jock _turd

[Jambo 4 Ever]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

It'll be tight, but I think we will stay up.

hope you are right but I just don't see it

[Horatio Caine]

Just now, Natural Orders said:

hope you are right but I just don't see it

Go to specsavers then.

[Pasquale for King]

10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

The evidence is how we played when he had his best players available. I absolutely support Stendel but the discussion was around systems and Levein would *probably* have a better chance of using the players we now have to get us out of this fix. And yes I know he got us into it, just like other Hearts managers who have had us down at the bottom but who have been able to pull us out.

 

My main beef with Levein right from when he got the manager job was he didn't seem to be motivated to be Hearts manager and that might have communicated itself to the players. He shouldn't have taken the job on on a permanent basis if he didn't really want to be Hearts manager. The start to season 18/19 with his rebuilt squad convinced me he still had it. But whatever motivational and tactical ability he used to have he seemed to completely lose it when the injuries hit. I thought Stendel seemed like a much better man manager and motivator which is what I thought we needed. It hasn't turned out that way so far unfortunately. Plenty time though. We should stay up.

He had all his best players available from January 2018 for a few weeks at least and we hardly won a league game. He signed injury prune players to rehabilitate them and send them to the promised land, something he didn’t achieve.He failed miserably.

It can’t be easy to foster belief in your methods when Levein is still around, on the touch line at reserve games, not part of his remit.

We can still stay up but we need action not anymore words.