We are not alone.... Maybe.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Nope.

The science suggests that the likelihood of alien life being close enough to find and reach earth, during the tiny window of both species' existence, is as close to zero to be dismissed.

Sceptics:-

“The science suggests that the likelihood of alien life being close enough to find and reach earth, during the tiny window of both species' existence, is as close to zero to be dismissed”.

 

Conclusion:- science is completely irrelevant. It is based on what we know, what we think we know but most importantly of all, totally disregards that which we don’t know - for obvious reasons.

 

But still, the sceptics keep banging that drum. 

[JFK-1]

That's a novel view, or is it? Who cares about science, what do they know aside from drivel like landing men on the moon and sending telescopes a million miles out into space. They know nothing.

There are countless internet wackos who know more about everything than these scientists know about anything. At least in an alternate reality that's the case.

Wonder if these internet guys believe in ghosts, bigfoot, leprechauns and demons. Because i'm pretty confident there have been more reports of such things than there have been aliens sticking probes up arses. Enough reports, it's a done deal, it's a ghost if that's what I want it to be. 

Pooh science and their stupid evidence, though I wouldn't be able to say that here if it hadn't built me this PC. Only good thing they ever did. The alien chasers and ghost hunters are far more productive members of society. 

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

Sceptics:-

“The science suggests that the likelihood of alien life being close enough to find and reach earth, during the tiny window of both species' existence, is as close to zero to be dismissed”.

 

Conclusion:- science is completely irrelevant. It is based on what we know, what we think we know but most importantly of all, totally disregards that which we don’t know - for obvious reasons.

 

But still, the sceptics keep banging that drum. 

 

"science is completely irrelevant"

 

Probability isn't.

[WorldChampions1902]

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

"science is completely irrelevant"

 

Probability isn't.

As long as people persist with the assertion, “science says xyz is impossible or highly unlikely” to reinforce their posit, science is indeed completely irrelevant In that context.

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

As long as people persist with the assertion, “science says xyz is impossible or highly unlikely” to reinforce their posit, science is indeed completely irrelevant In that context.

 

If you want to go for this stuff then you need to prove it, you can't, no one can. Science is in the business of proving reality, what's irrelevant is disproving every pile of shite out there. They say ghosts are impossible too despite more reports than you can shake an anal probe at. Presumably you think they're real because science can't disprove it.

Until such a thing as alien tourists sending postcards from Earth back home is proven to be even remotely likely, then that particular pile of shite is as irrelevant as ghost hunting and liable to the same kind of ridicule those who believe Elvis is still alive get.

Science can't disprove that either. Maybe Elvis was an alien. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by JFK-1

[WorldChampions1902]

44 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

That's a novel view, or is it? Who cares about science, what do they know aside from drivel like landing men on the moon and sending telescopes a million miles out into space. They know nothing.

There are countless internet wackos who know more about everything than these scientists know about anything. At least in an alternate reality that's the case.

Wonder if these internet guys believe in ghosts, bigfoot, leprechauns and demons. Because i'm pretty confident there have been more reports of such things than there have been aliens sticking probes up arses. Enough reports, it's a done deal, it's a ghost if that's what I want it to be. 

Pooh science and their stupid evidence, though I wouldn't be able to say that here if it hadn't built me this PC. Only good thing they ever did. The alien chasers and ghost hunters are far more productive members of society. 

Yet again, my point goes over the heads of some. 
 

To be clear, science is wonderful. It has given humankind incalculable benefits. My point YET AGAIN, is that to use science as a basis for arguing something cannot be true is total bollocks. Because such an argument assumes that humankind understands all that there is to know about science. It doesn’t. And until it does, one cannot argue against something as being impossible, using science to bolster one’s case.
 

If one phrases one’s argument as “based on what relatively little we understand about science, xyz is impossible”, then fair enough. But many sceptics use the science argument to discount any possibility.

Edited February 22, 2022 by WorldChampions1902

[Unknown user]

14 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

As long as people persist with the assertion, “science says xyz is impossible or highly unlikely” to reinforce their posit, science is indeed completely irrelevant In that context.

 

I'm talking about probability, likelihood.

 

The universe is 13.8 billion years old. 

It takes light 46 billion years to get from one end to the other.

 

But you reckon that, in the 70 or so year window of your existence, there's a realistic chance that a species is at just the right level of technology and evolution to find and reach us?

Edited February 22, 2022 by Smithee

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Yet again, my point goes over the heads of some. 
 

To be clear, science is wonderful. It has given humankind incalculable benefits. My point YET AGAIN, is that to use science as a basis for arguing something cannot be true is total bollocks. Because such an argument assumes that humankind understands all that there is to know about science. It doesn’t. And until it does, one cannot argue against something as being impossible.
 

If one phrases one’s argument as “based on what relatively little we understand about science, xyz is impossible”, then fair enough. But many sceptics use the science argument to discount any possibility.

 

You think your point's going over people's heads? 

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm talking about probability, likelihood.

 

The universe is 13.8 billion years old. 

It takes light 46 billion years to get from one end to the other.

 

But you reckon that, in the 70 or so year window of your existence, there's a realistic chance that a species is at just the right level of technology and evolution to find and reach us?

 

Wouldn't that also make it quite likely?

 

The universe is ancient and huge, therefore there's a big chance there's billions of life forms out there that could visit us. 

 

For me it's about why would they? If what I've said above is true (and seems to be the logic the believers use too) then why would you fly down into Earth's atmosphere, buzz about the place trying to avoid detection and then leave again? Spying, like a drone? Maybe, I guess but seems unlikely, surely if they had that sort of tech, they could just either entirely avoid detection or observe us from afar.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Yet again, my point goes over the heads of some. 
 

To be clear, science is wonderful. It has given humankind incalculable benefits. My point YET AGAIN, is that to use science as a basis for arguing something cannot be true is total bollocks. Because such an argument assumes that humankind understands all that there is to know about science. It doesn’t. And until it does, one cannot argue against something as being impossible, using science to bolster one’s case.
 

If one phrases one’s argument as “based on what relatively little we understand about science, xyz is impossible”, then fair enough. But many sceptics use the science argument to discount any possibility.

 

Okay, you could believe in anything science can't disprove, we get it. Somebody on the internet says alien's are real, many arses been probed, you  go for it because science can't disprove that or the fairies or living breathing Elvis. Message clear. 

I have a new one, I saw a guy post someplace that he doesn't believe all rainbows are caused by diffraction of light. He says some are caused by underground living leprechauns sticking their arse up through the surface and farting out rainbows.

He has a point, science can't disprove that. Thus it's not impossible. Leave the idiots to deny aliens visitations, living Elvis, and rainbow farting leprechauns in the same who knows box till science can disprove them.

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Wouldn't that also make it quite likely?

 

The universe is ancient and huge, therefore there's a big chance there's billions of life forms out there that could visit us. 

 

There's a big chance life forms have existed, currently exist, or will exist. But for how long?

 

Our species is 200,000 years old, we've been able to reach space for less than 100. How much longer have we really got?

Now think of the vastness of space, then a tiny flash of light. That was our entire existence compared to the 14 billion years stuff's been around.

 

I'm happy to accept the likelihood that there have been, will be, or even could currently be other flashes of light out there. But the chances of all these incredibly rare things coming together in the same blink of an eye?

[Unknown user]

Plus, this other species could be cats, or carrots

[JFK-1]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Wouldn't that also make it quite likely?

 

The universe is ancient and huge, therefore there's a big chance there's billions of life forms out there that could visit us. 

 

For me it's about why would they? If what I've said above is true (and seems to be the logic the believers use too) then why would you fly down into Earth's atmosphere, buzz about the place trying to avoid detection and then leave again? Spying, like a drone? Maybe, I guess but seems unlikely, surely if they had that sort of tech, they could just either entirely avoid detection or observe us from afar.

 

I believe the current estimated age of the universe may be derived from how far we can see, and apparently what we can see might be nothing approaching what's out there. Hopefully Webb may help with this. But let's say for example when we get Webb up running what we see is simply more of the same, again as far as we can see. Back to the drawing board in that case, how big is it.

The universe may even be infinite, meaning we could never see the beginning. And the further away we look the faster everything is moving away and getting faster. It may eventually reach a stage where it's impossible to travel to another galaxy because it's moving away so fast.

[spud]

19 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Sceptics:-

“The science suggests it is impossible (or almost impossible) for ET’s to reach, or have reached, planet Earth”.

 

The first convict transportations to Australia by sea took 8 months. Today we can fly from London to Sydney in less than 24 hours.

 

Conclusion:- science is completely irrelevant. It is based on what we know, what we think we know but most importantly of all, totally disregards that which we don’t know - for obvious reasons. As the above example illustrates, what was unthinkable in the 1770’s is today’s norm.

 

But still, the sceptics keep banging that drum. 

So science is irrelevant.

Who do you think charted the voyages to allow the ships to reach Australia? - Cartographers ie Scientists

Who disovered latitude to navigate the journeys? - Scientists

Who reduced the time to travel to Australia from 8 months to 24 hours? - Scientists

Who designed the planes that allow the journey to Australia? - Scientists

Whose working to improve the refining of jet fuel? - Scientists

Who designed the terminal where you land in Australia? - Scientists

Who is working on new plane designs to allow faster journey times? - Scientists

I could go on.

 

And as for the statement you underlined, no doubt to show its importance, science tries to find out what we don't know, that is its very nature. So I'll finish your last sentence for you "As the above example illustrates, what was unthinkable in the 1770’s is today’s norm" because of science and its discoveries over the last 250 years.

 

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There's a big chance life forms have existed, currently exist, or will exist. But for how long?

 

Our species is 200,000 years old, we've been able to reach space for less than 100. How much longer have we really got?

Now think of the vastness of space, then a tiny flash of light. That was our entire existence compared to the 14 billion years stuff's been around.

 

I'm happy to accept the likelihood that there have been, will be, or even could currently be other flashes of light out there. But the chances of all these incredibly rare things coming together in the same blink of an eye?

 

 

There's nearly 9 million species on earth, multiply that by even a tiny fraction of planets in the universe and the number would allow for so many to have taken a different path from us. Maybe evolved much faster, have different resources available to them etc etc. The unknown unknowns are just unfathomable. It's exactly the vastness and age that makes me think we know so little from our flash of light.

 

I don't believe that we're special, or unique. Imagine species have existed on just 3 billion planets and have done for 1 million years vs our 200,000 what they may have achieved.

 

 

Dreamer nonsense maybe. I don't believe we've been visited by UFOs but if the government turn around tomorrow and said it happened I wouldn't be shocked.

 

 

 

 

[Tazio]

31 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Plus, this other species could be cats, or carrots

I'm hoping for a cat/carrot hybrid. That would make me indescribably happy.

[Unknown user]

37 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

There's nearly 9 million species on earth, multiply that by even a tiny fraction of planets in the universe and the number would allow for so many to have taken a different path from us. Maybe evolved much faster, have different resources available to them etc etc. The unknown unknowns are just unfathomable. It's exactly the vastness and age that makes me think we know so little from our flash of light.

 

I don't believe that we're special, or unique. Imagine species have existed on just 3 billion planets and have done for 1 million years vs our 200,000 what they may have achieved.

 

 

Dreamer nonsense maybe. I don't believe we've been visited by UFOs but if the government turn around tomorrow and said it happened I wouldn't be shocked.

 

 

There could be incredible wonders out there, but it's so unlikely that we'll ever know about them that the government would be, to me anyway, obviously lying.

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I'm hoping for a cat/carrot hybrid. That would make me indescribably happy.

I look forward to hybrid plant pot litter tray spaceships flying about

[Jambo_jim2001]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Plus, this other species could be cats, or carrots

Bet your glad it's not rabbits and carrots 🧐😃

[Boab]

I think the point missed by the UFO gadgies is they are solid craft, right ?

So, they must be constrained by the very laws of physics that exist to allow movement, no ?

Believe in ET all you want and dismiss our scientific boundaries as they stand right now but surely if they were around it wouldn't be in shiny saucer-shaped craft ? 

It would be in dimensions we can't see, hear or even contemplate.

So to summarise, UFOs are bunkum !

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, spud said:

So science is irrelevant.

Who do you think charted the voyages to allow the ships to reach Australia? - Cartographers ie Scientists

Who disovered latitude to navigate the journeys? - Scientists

Who reduced the time to travel to Australia from 8 months to 24 hours? - Scientists

Who designed the planes that allow the journey to Australia? - Scientists

Whose working to improve the refining of jet fuel? - Scientists

Who designed the terminal where you land in Australia? - Scientists

Who is working on new plane designs to allow faster journey times? - Scientists

I could go on.

 

And as for the statement you underlined, no doubt to show its importance, science tries to find out what we don't know, that is its very nature. So I'll finish your last sentence for you "As the above example illustrates, what was unthinkable in the 1770’s is today’s norm" because of science and its discoveries over the last 250 years.

 

See above.
 

To reiterate ONCE AGAIN, science is wonderful. It is irrelevant in the context of the arguments used against the ability of extraterrestrial life to visit planet earth. Because science doesn’t have all the answers, despite the tendency of some in that community to think otherwise.

 

[Maple Leaf]

For anyone who asserts that aliens have visited earth, or are currently visiting earth, Carl Sagan had a response:

 

The Sagan standard is the adage that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” (a concept abbreviated as ECREE). This signifies that the more unlikely a certain claim is, given existing evidence on the subject, the greater the standard of proof that is expected of it.

[Vlad Magic]

Why do they insist on sticking things up our bottoms?

 

If I was an alien visiting earth the last thing I would want to do would be to stick a probe up an earthlings bum?

 

Brain scan yes.

Tissue sample yes.

Anal probe?? Really??

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Yet again, my point goes over the heads of some. 
 

To be clear, science is wonderful. It has given humankind incalculable benefits. My point YET AGAIN, is that to use science as a basis for arguing something cannot be true is total bollocks. Because such an argument assumes that humankind understands all that there is to know about science. It doesn’t. And until it does, one cannot argue against something as being impossible, using science to bolster one’s case.
 

If one phrases one’s argument as “based on what relatively little we understand about science, xyz is impossible”, then fair enough. But many sceptics use the science argument to discount any possibility.

What you are really arguing is thus, if we take your point to its fundamental conclusion:

Absolutely anything is possible if you just assume science has not yet made the relevant discovery. 

Yet, we calculated the speed of light in 1676 (Roemer), Einstein proposed his Theory of General Relativity in 1916. 

That's a lot of time for our more advanced observational tools, particle accelerators and other developments to disprove both. We haven't. Indeed, we've proven them time and time again - one simple proof is the equation for adjusting GPS satellite time to sync with a ground-based observer. 

Science doesn't assume that it knows everything and is constantly trying to disprove existing models, though it hasn't succeeded yet. But there's a lot we do know that underpins where we go next to further enhance our understanding with better observational tools to gather more data. JWST will allow us to see earlier light from the earliest beginnings of the Universe, as one example.

But to go from "we don't know everything" to binning the fundamentals which we do know, trust and rely on for reliable predictions, measurements and forecasts simply because there is more to build upon, is a bad conclusion to reach imo. 


 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If you want to go for this stuff then you need to prove it, you can't, no one can. Science is in the business of proving reality, what's irrelevant is disproving every pile of shite out there. They say ghosts are impossible too despite more reports than you can shake an anal probe at. Presumably you think they're real because science can't disprove it.

Until such a thing as alien tourists sending postcards from Earth back home is proven to be even remotely likely, then that particular pile of shite is as irrelevant as ghost hunting and liable to the same kind of ridicule those who believe Elvis is still alive get.

Science can't disprove that either. Maybe Elvis was an alien. 

We use science and technology every day as part of our criminal investigations and one of those tools is the Polygraph, which supposedly has an 80%-90% success rate. There are plenty of highly credible witnesses to various UFO activity who agree to subject themselves to the lie detector tests who pass it with flying colours. They are then subjected to subsequent polygraph tests by the authorities in the hope that eventually, they will fail it. They don’t and the authorities give up, usually with the excuse that these tests are not 100% reliable (which is true).
 

The interesting thing is that despite the many and successive polygraph test passes by multiple witnesses, the fact that they are passes makes their results “invalid”, as far as the authorities are concerned. Only the “proven liar” Polygraph tests are worthy of credibility in their eyes.

 

So much for the science.

[Vlad Magic]

24 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

We use science and technology every day as part of our criminal investigations and one of those tools is the Polygraph, which supposedly has an 80%-90% success rate. There are plenty of highly credible witnesses to various UFO activity who agree to subject themselves to the lie detector tests who pass it with flying colours. They are then subjected to subsequent polygraph tests by the authorities in the hope that eventually, they will fail it. They don’t and the authorities give up, usually with the excuse that these tests are not 100% reliable (which is true).
 

The interesting thing is that despite the many and successive polygraph test passes by multiple witnesses, the fact that they are passes makes their results “invalid”, as far as the authorities are concerned. Only the “proven liar” Polygraph tests are worthy of credibility in their eyes.

 

So much for the science.

Interesting however possibly explained this way?

 

They believe they have witnessed a UFO. What they have actually witnessed looks like a UFO it’s just unfortunately it was something else. One of the many many “explained” sightings that happen regularly.

 

Optical illusions, irregular aircraft activity etc etc.

 

Said person will of course pass a polygraph test because they aren’t lying. They have seen what they 100% believe to be a UFO. Their brains are telling them that’s what they have seen so their bodies and brains react accordingly thus passing the polygraph test.

 

If you were to put me on a polygraph machine and ask me questions about a UFO I supposedly saw last year I would fail because I didn’t see a UFO last year.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Vlad Magic

[maroonlegions]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

That's a novel view, or is it? Who cares about science, what do they know aside from drivel like landing men on the moon and sending telescopes a million miles out into space. They know nothing.

There are countless internet wackos who know more about everything than these scientists know about anything. At least in an alternate reality that's the case.

Wonder if these internet guys believe in ghosts, bigfoot, leprechauns and demons. Because i'm pretty confident there have been more reports of such things than there have been aliens sticking probes up arses. Enough reports, it's a done deal, it's a ghost if that's what I want it to be. 

Pooh science and their stupid evidence, though I wouldn't be able to say that here if it hadn't built me this PC. Only good thing they ever did. The alien chasers and ghost hunters are far more productive members of society. 

Now thats what you call UNEDUCATED "SPLAFF".

 

Your post has nothing to offer but a rather pathetic drivel of "pseudoSkeptic"DENIAL" of UAP evidence. 

 

As you know  and i have provided  that outwith wee green anal probing aliens landing on the Whitehoose lawn there IS evidence that highly advanced teck has been witnessed , recorded and investigated by some of the scientific community over the years in various countries. The USA being the main one.

 

The reality of this is that YOU are willfully IGNORING or due to pre bias dismiss outright this kind of evidence.

 

That is a 100% given with you and others in your happy clappy boat of nothing to see here so move along gang.

 

I could list, include, provide links to such evidence but its a waste of time. 

 

Why?  Well i will leave that to you.

 

I am just glad that you and the others in this gang are nowhere near the huge responsibility in the decision making of protecting our countries restricted air spaces. I would also add that i am also glad that you have in no way been responsible for such  UAP investigations  carried out and the conclusions reached about them.

 

Because they "OFFICIALLY" paint a very different, credible and BELIEVABLE picture.

 

SOME UAP incursions into our restricted air space  over the years have  shown EVIDENCE of "INTELLIGENT" "flight characteristics".

 

100s of UAP cases  involving high teck "maneuverability"  were F16 fighter jets have been "ragged dolled "  and out flown and outmaneuvered by UAPs .

 

These are NOT the rantings of uneducated and non scientific loonies on u tube , these "credibility" investigated cases show EVIDENCE that the UK AIR force intelligences were highly concerned and bewildered at just what some of these UAPs were capable of  involving their "flight characteristics ".

 

You do know that there are many other forms  of evidence  rather than a wee green anal probing hillbilly landing on the whitehoose lawn or

clear photo of a UAP.   

 

 

That the UK airforce ,USAF  , French ,Chillian , Brazilian and other airforce intelligences all came to similar findings in their investigations proves beyond doubt that this is not a isolation problem to any one country. That in itself  adds yet more evidence that something IS showing up in countries air spaces , causing their airforced to scramble fighter jets to investigate and in some cases engage and fire on UAPs.

 

I will now waste my time in  trying to provide you some valuable "homework" that you clearly need in order for your all knowing and all seeing intelligence to be able to comprehend the scale, and magnitude, and impact,  that these UAPs have had on the minds of those that have officially investigated and witnessed such UAPs.         

 

"People are not stupid. They believe things for reasons. The last way for skeptics to get the attention of bright, curious, intelligent people is to belittle or condescend or to show arrogance toward their beliefs." 

 

The words of Carl Sagan..  Bet you that you are ignorant of him too.

 

Now the main theme of this homework is this , is there supporting EVIDENCE  for the existence of advanced aerial technology in our atmosphere which exhibits characteristics beyond those of which we humans (Military, Scientists, et al) were capable of at the time of the incidents' occurrence?.

 

Its a very big fat YES  that there IS such EVIDENCE.

 

 

So here is your homework, follow the link its all the evidence you crave off.

 

But i will say this, to go away unconvinced after looking at all the evidence is one thing, but to go away unconvinced after NOT looking at all available evidence is wrong and just not science or a scientific way.

 

Perpetual Denial of Evidence and Cognitive Dissonance

 

PseudoSkeptics are always saying, "There's no evidence for any paranormal or psychic phenomena" no matter how much evidence is shown to them. That's because this statement is a religion to them, not an objective statement. So no matter what evidence you give them, they will always deny it and raise the bar, simply because "there is no evidence" is a fixed belief to them.

 

 

 

A must-read paper: Estimating Flight Characteristics of UAP - entropy-21-00939-v2.pdf

    

 

 

Astronomers & UFOs / 1977.0400 Sturrock Astronomers Survey

To: [email protected]
 

During April 1977 results were released of a survey by Dr Peter Sturrock of professional and amateur astronomers of the American Astronomical Society (“AAS”) regarding UFOs. (Commonly referred to as “the Sturrock survey” or “the AAS survey”). The 2-part pdf file on this report from The Journal of Scientific Exploration is provided below.   http://www.nicap.org/papers/jse_08_1_sturrock.pdf http://www.nicap.org/papers/jse_08_2_sturrock.pdf http://www.nicap.org/papers/jse_08_3_sturrock.pdf     Michael Swords;   What Does A Half-Century of Intense UFO Display Mean? - Michael Swords (IUR Fall 2001)Science amp; the ETH in UFOlogy - Michael Swords (JUFOS, 1989) Project SIGN and the Estimate of the Situation - Michael Swords (JUFOS, 2000) Dominique Weinstein; A Catalog of Military, Airliner, and Private Pilots sightings from 1916 to 2000 (NARCAP)   Lots of homework links provided above.  Will look forward to any  of your OWN scientific rebuttals of any of the high strangeness UAP cases that were labeled so by after official investigation of them.    Which reminds me.... On the reality of "experience". "Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world. All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it." - Albert Einstein.

 

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by maroonlegions

[WorldChampions1902]

5 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Interesting however possibly explained this way?

 

They believe they have witnessed a UFO. What they have actually witnessed looks like a UFO it’s just unfortunately it was something else. One of the many many “explained” sightings that happen regularly.

 

Optical illusions, irregular aircraft activity etc etc.

 

Said person will of course pass a polygraph test because they aren’t lying. They have seen what they 100% believe to be a UFO. Their brains are telling them that’s what they have seen so their bodies and brains react accordingly thus passing the polygraph test.

 

If you were to put me on a polygraph machine and ask me questions about a UFO I supposedly saw last year I would fail because I didn’t see a UFO last year.

 

 

I see the point you are making.
 

So, what about the multiple witness polygraph tests that are consistent and emphatic and corroborate other witnesses accounts to the same incident? Whilst fewer in number, these cases exist.
 

Furthermore, there is a consistency of detail across different UFO incidents in terms of what alleged abductees declare they witnessed/experienced whilst onboard some of those crafts.

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

For anyone who asserts that aliens have visited earth, or are currently visiting earth, Carl Sagan had a response:

 

The Sagan standard is the adage that “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” (a concept abbreviated as ECREE). This signifies that the more unlikely a certain claim is, given existing evidence on the subject, the greater the standard of proof that is expected of it.

 

Would you agree that the following witness statements are extraordinary?

 

1. Senior career US military man heads up a UFO crash recovery team who declares he has recovered multiple craft and alien species, over decades?

2. Senior NASA photo analyst who declares she was responsible for airbrushing (presumably) ancient alien technology and structures from photos taken of the surface of the moon?

3. Senior career US military personnel who witnessed the hijacking of their nuclear missile silos by UFO’s to the extent that they were primed for launch? (The same happened in Russia allegedly)?

etc….  etc…..  etc…..

 

I’m sure you will agree that these are indeed “extraordinary claims”?
 

So when these individuals appear at a high-profile Press Conference, that the US TV Networks promised to televise and then don’t, these claims don’t receive the publicity they warrant. These people have varying degrees of US security clearance and after their short statements, they end with the request that they are given immunity against prosecution by the US authorities. They further declare that they want to go to the US Congress and be allowed to tell their stories under oath. But of course, such assurances and invitations never materialise.

 

These are not a handful of people, but hundreds. From NASA, to Air Traffic Control, to Military, to Security Agency personnel and more. They want to gamble their careers, their promotion prospects, their pensions and their reputations to tell their story. But to date, they haven’t received that invitation to Congress. We are left none the wiser.

 

So we will all be denied the opportunity to assess whether indeed those “extraordinary claims, constitute “extraordinary evidence”. The above clearly illustrates that potentially, “extraordinary evidence” is being suppressed.

 

 

 

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

We use science and technology every day as part of our criminal investigations and one of those tools is the Polygraph, which supposedly has an 80%-90% success rate. There are plenty of highly credible witnesses to various UFO activity who agree to subject themselves to the lie detector tests who pass it with flying colours. They are then subjected to subsequent polygraph tests by the authorities in the hope that eventually, they will fail it. They don’t and the authorities give up, usually with the excuse that these tests are not 100% reliable (which is true).
 

The interesting thing is that despite the many and successive polygraph test passes by multiple witnesses, the fact that they are passes makes their results “invalid”, as far as the authorities are concerned. Only the “proven liar” Polygraph tests are worthy of credibility in their eyes.

 

So much for the science.

Polygraphs are not in any way deemed reliable or scientific. There is, to quote "no unique physiological signs of deception" - http://fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ota/. This is why they were banned from courts in 1983 in the US.  

It's a terribly unconvincing attack on science to reference a tool that's little better thought of than an E-meter. 

[Maple Leaf]

29 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

Would you agree that the following witness statements are extraordinary?

 

1. Senior career US military man heads up a UFO crash recovery team who declares he has recovered multiple craft and alien species, over decades?

2. Senior NASA photo analyst who declares she was responsible for airbrushing (presumably) ancient alien technology and structures from photos taken of the surface of the moon?

3. Senior career US military personnel who witnessed the hijacking of their nuclear missile silos by UFO’s to the extent that they were primed for launch? (The same happened in Russia allegedly)?

etc….  etc…..  etc…..

 

I’m sure you will agree that these are indeed “extraordinary claims”?
 

So when these individuals appear at a high-profile Press Conference, that the US TV Networks promised to televise and then don’t, these claims don’t receive the publicity they warrant. These people have varying degrees of US security clearance and after their short statements, they end with the request that they are given immunity against prosecution by the US authorities. They further declare that they want to go to the US Congress and be allowed to tell their stories under oath. But of course, such assurances and invitations never materialise.

 

These are not a handful of people, but hundreds. From NASA, to Air Traffic Control, to Military, to Security Agency personnel and more. They want to gamble their careers, their promotion prospects, their pensions and their reputations to tell their story. But to date, they haven’t received that invitation to Congress. We are left none the wiser.

 

So we will all be denied the opportunity to assess whether indeed those “extraordinary claims, constitute “extraordinary evidence”. The above clearly illustrates that potentially, “extraordinary evidence” is being suppressed.

 

 

 

 

The three examples you quoted are extraordinary claims to be sure.  Without any evidence, however, they fall into the category of what I would describe as hearsay.

 

Where are the pieces of crashed alien ships and bodies, for example?  Can none of the three people you mentioned produce even a single piece of evidence to substantiate their story?

 

Believe me, I would love to be around when conclusive evidence of alien visits is provided.  It would be one of the most important events in the history of humankind, and I want it to happen in my lifetime.  But I've seen or read nothing at all that is even remotely convincing. BTW, if it's to happen in my lifetime, they'd better hurry up.  I'm running out of runway!

 

With regard to the suppression of witness testimony that you mention, that all happened in the USA.  Is evidence also being suppressed in the numerous other countries where alien encounters have been reported? The reason I ask is that no tangible evidence has been produced in any other country either.  

[Gizmo]

48 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

...1. Senior career US military man heads up a UFO crash recovery team who declares he has recovered multiple craft and alien species, over decades?

2. Senior NASA photo analyst who declares she was responsible for airbrushing (presumably) ancient alien technology and structures from photos taken of the surface of the moon?

3. Senior career US military personnel who witnessed the hijacking of their nuclear missile silos by UFO’s to the extent that they were primed for launch? (The same happened in Russia allegedly)?

etc….  etc…..  etc…..

 

So we will all be denied the opportunity to assess whether indeed those “extraordinary claims, constitute “extraordinary evidence”. The above clearly illustrates that potentially, “extraordinary evidence” is being suppressed.

 

 

 

These extraordinary claims do indeed require extraordinary evidence. But anecdotal claims are not evidence.

I'll put a different angle here, since you seem to want to be convinced. 

Let's assume all the above is true - then it follows that the planet is teeming with alien presence, with UFOs consistently seen in our atmosphere and having been recovered, on multiple occasions, from crash sites. 

Where is the good quality photographic evidence. Are we to believe that every single UFO crash was always found first by a law enforcement/intelligence agency. That no crashed UFOs have been stumbled upon by civilians first, or lie waiting for an intrepid explorer to discovery, vlog and share with us?

In 1950 I could accept this lack of evidence. In 2022 - when there are an estimated 45 BILLION cameras on the planet, not so much. Not just cameras, but cameras of increasing fidelity and capability, that can instantly share online, on social networks or in the crowd without further use intervnention. Fixed to buildings, installed in cars, in satellites in space which show real-time photography of the earth, installed on 6.46 billion smartphones covering 83% of the world population. 

So, where is this unequivocal stark evidence (not some blurry shadows or fast moving smudges etc)? 

[WorldChampions1902]

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The three examples you quoted are extraordinary claims to be sure.  Without any evidence, however, they fall into the category of what I would describe as hearsay.

 

Where are the pieces of crashed alien ships and bodies, for example?  Can none of the three people you mentioned produce even a single piece of evidence to substantiate their story?

 

Believe me, I would love to be around when conclusive evidence of alien visits is provided.  It would be one of the most important events in the history of humankind, and I want it to happen in my lifetime.  But I've seen or read nothing at all that is even remotely convincing. BTW, if it's to happen in my lifetime, they'd better hurry up.  I'm running out of runway!

 

With regard to the suppression of witness testimony that you mention, that all happened in the USA.  Is evidence also being suppressed in the numerous other countries where alien encounters have been reported? The reason I ask is that no tangible evidence has been produced in any other country either.  

I’m no spring chicken myself and I desperately want to still be around when the “great reveal” happens, whatever that may be! 😃

 

What I was trying to illustrate was that even on something as potentially profound as those three witness declarations (there are hundreds more, who also wanted to go to Congress), by their behaviours, the authorities do not want to facilitate such a scenario. Why? Because either very senior people in very important positions of our scientific and military establishments are complete lunatics, or they are telling the truth. If it’s the former, we should all be worried. If it’s the latter, then it is clear there is a cover-up. Why?

 

As regards crashed UFO’s and alien bodies, might I suggest you take a look at the look at a book by Lt. Col Philip Corso called “The Day After Roswell”. Once again, if what he has written is accurate, why hasn’t his story had wider publicity and acclaim?

 

The UFO phenomenon is global. What has been suggested by some commentators is that there is some sort of global alliance to suppress information on this topic, as governments take the view that to make the reality public, would be to risk destabilising our societies. Indeed, that US military guy who headed the UFO crash recovery team indicated that they would be deployed all over the world with the permission of foreign governments. Not saying he is telling the truth BTW. But we come back to the point, let’s hear what they have to say. Let them present their photographic and physical material. But it ain’t happening.

[Greedy Jambo]

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Some around here may already know my opinion of alien visitations, load of shyte. I wouldn't dispute life elsewhere in the universe, but it's never been here. But I do find some of the 'UFO' videos interesting.

My opinion of what we're seeing, at least in the videos the documentary i'm about to post illustrates which are the ones released by the US government, is that this is some sort of secret technology. Is there a chance it isn't? Yes but the chances of it being terrestrial rather than ET are infinitely greater.

I typically wouldn't post anything discussing alien visitations etc. because I have heard it all before and more often than not it's total cranks posting it. People who will believe you without a moments hesitation if you said an alien subjected you to an anal probe.

But this video is posted by 60 minutes Australia which is a reputable broadcaster. They have several experts in different fields looking at it and offering an opinion and their opinions don't all match. But one of them thinks as I do, that's it's secret technology.

 

 

 

Who's secret technology do you think it is? and i take it you're assuming that they came up with it themselves?

[Vlad Magic]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I see the point you are making.
 

So, what about the multiple witness polygraph tests that are consistent and emphatic and corroborate other witnesses accounts to the same incident? Whilst fewer in number, these cases exist.
 

Furthermore, there is a consistency of detail across different UFO incidents in terms of what alleged abductees declare they witnessed/experienced whilst onboard some of those crafts.

Ok think of it this way.

 

Take a magician doing a magic trick with 30 people in front of him.

 

Magician he takes a bottle of water out his pocket. The 30 people are invited to inspect the bottle of water. They open it drink it it’s a bottle of water. Magician then takes the bottle of water and shakes it. It turns to cola.

 

The audience inspect it, taste it it’s Coca Cola. Everyone’s amazed. It’s the trick of the year. Fantastic!!

 

Now you put those 30 people on a polygraph and ask them

 

What did you see?

 

They will all say they saw a guy turn a bottle of water into a bottle of cola.

 

They all saw it with their own eyes.

 

Ask them anything you like under polygraph conditions they will pass. They saw it. Their brains are convinced they saw it. The bottle went from water to cola.

 

Now 1 person out of the 30 knows how that trick is done. Stick him on the polygraph and he will fail. He can’t lie. 

 

Point I am making is when you see something that your brain tells you is correct it is correct even if it’s something like a magic trick.

 

The one guy out the 30 can’t have his brain tricked. He knows what’s gone on and he fails the polygraph through no fault of his own other than he knows the truth.

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

4 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Ok think of it this way.

 

Take a magician doing a magic trick with 30 people in front of him.

 

Magician he takes a bottle of water out his pocket. The 30 people are invited to inspect the bottle of water. They open it drink it it’s a bottle of water. Magician then takes the bottle of water and shakes it. It turns to cola.

 

The audience inspect it, taste it it’s Coca Cola. Everyone’s amazed. It’s the trick of the year. Fantastic!!

 

Now you put those 30 people on a polygraph and ask them

 

What did you see?

 

They will all say they saw a guy turn a bottle of water into a bottle of cola.

 

They all saw it with their own eyes.

 

Ask them anything you like under polygraph conditions they will pass. They saw it. Their brains are convinced they saw it. The bottle went from water to cola.

 

Now 1 person out of the 30 knows how that trick is done. Stick him on the polygraph and he will fail. He can’t lie. 

 

Point I am making is when you see something that your brain tells you is correct it is correct even if it’s something like a magic trick.

 

The one guy out the 30 can’t have his brain tricked. He knows what’s gone on and he fails the polygraph through no fault of his own other than he knows the truth.

 

 

I really hope the seven Police Authorities in England and Wales that use this technology withdraw it immediately. Unless of course, they get the test results that suit their case.

[Greedy Jambo]

Didn't Bob Lazar pass several Polygraph tests?

Imagine if he's been telling us the truth since the 80's. 

[WorldChampions1902]

20 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

Who's secret technology do you think it is? and i take it you're assuming that they came up with it themselves?

The “secret technology” argument!
 

This advanced, mind-blowing technology that our military supposedly test in broad daylight, above densely populated areas, performing manoeuvres and velocity that would immediately turn any pilot to mush is clearly best kept secret by such an approach. Not!

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

These extraordinary claims do indeed require extraordinary evidence. But anecdotal claims are not evidence.

I'll put a different angle here, since you seem to want to be convinced. 

Let's assume all the above is true - then it follows that the planet is teeming with alien presence, with UFOs consistently seen in our atmosphere and having been recovered, on multiple occasions, from crash sites. 

Where is the good quality photographic evidence. Are we to believe that every single UFO crash was always found first by a law enforcement/intelligence agency. That no crashed UFOs have been stumbled upon by civilians first, or lie waiting for an intrepid explorer to discovery, vlog and share with us?

In 1950 I could accept this lack of evidence. In 2022 - when there are an estimated 45 BILLION cameras on the planet, not so much. Not just cameras, but cameras of increasing fidelity and capability, that can instantly share online, on social networks or in the crowd without further use intervnention. Fixed to buildings, installed in cars, in satellites in space which show real-time photography of the earth, installed on 6.46 billion smartphones covering 83% of the world population. 

So, where is this unequivocal stark evidence (not some blurry shadows or fast moving smudges etc)? 

Where do I start?

 

”Teeming with UFO’s”? It depends on what you mean by that. My view is that multiple UFO’s are tracked globally daily.

 

”Crashed UFO’s”? Or shot down? Because I believe the latter is more prevalent. Please see the Pentyrch incident as a recent example. Or the video footage of the laser beam aimed at a UFO from ground and captured by cameras on the Space Station.

 

There is an abundance of images and film footage of UFO’s that goes back decades. The Foo-fighters that dogged our WW2 bombers during their bombing missions are probably among the first to be photographed. Of course, such is the sophistication of technology in the hands of a mischievous film maker/photographer, any and all ‘decent’ imagery is immediately discredited by the sceptics. So let’s be honest here, nobody is going to be convinced by any of todays imagery.

 

The most famous UFO incident was discovered by civilians at Roswell. Many of those witnesses were threatened - a common theme. Yet, this subject matter is supposedly nonsense.

[ri Alban]

Tip for passing a lie detector. Bite your lip.

[Tazio]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Tip for passing a lie detector. Bite your lip.

Pin in the shoe. 

[ri Alban]

Just now, Tazio said:

Pin in the shoe. 

I'll try it

[Jambo_jim2001]

6 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

Why do they insist on sticking things up our bottoms?

 

If I was an alien visiting earth the last thing I would want to do would be to stick a probe up an earthlings bum?

 

Brain scan yes.

Tissue sample yes.

Anal probe?? Really??

Anal probe might be their equivalent of a handshake,,like some intergalactic masonic greeting 🧐

Edited February 22, 2022 by Jambo_jim2001
Posted twice

[Greedy Jambo]

56 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Where do I start?

 

”Teeming with UFO’s”? It depends on what you mean by that. My view is that multiple UFO’s are tracked globally daily.

 

”Crashed UFO’s”? Or shot down? Because I believe the latter is more prevalent. Please see the Pentyrch incident as a recent example. Or the video footage of the laser beam aimed at a UFO from ground and captured by cameras on the Space Station.

 

There is an abundance of images and film footage of UFO’s that goes back decades. The Foo-fighters that dogged our WW2 bombers during their bombing missions are probably among the first to be photographed. Of course, such is the sophistication of technology in the hands of a mischievous film maker/photographer, any and all ‘decent’ imagery is immediately discredited by the sceptics. So let’s be honest here, nobody is going to be convinced by any of todays imagery.

 

The most famous UFO incident was discovered by civilians at Roswell. Many of those witnesses were threatened - a common theme. Yet, this subject matter is supposedly nonsense.

 

Apparently there was 2 different crashes at Roswell, they were brought down in a lightning storm (also heard it could have been our radar interfering with their ships systems) who knows, most of the witnesses are dead now. 

[Vlad Magic]

11 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Anal probe might be their equivalent of a handshake,,like some intergalactic masonic greeting 🧐

I wouldn’t fancy bumping into one in the lift!!

[Jambo_jim2001]

1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said:

I wouldn’t fancy bumping into one in the lift!!

Going down or up🤔😳😳

[Gards]

15 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Anal probe might be their equivalent of a handshake,,like some intergalactic masonic greeting 🧐

Marvyn Bartley an alien?

[Greedy Jambo]

The comedians are back in town. 

 

 

[Greedy Jambo]

If an alien was going to research you, i'm pretty sure sticking something up your arse wouldn't get the same comedic response, to them, it's probably just a way in. 

[WorldChampions1902]

15 minutes ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

Anal probe might be their equivalent of a handshake,,like some intergalactic masonic greeting 🧐

To think that one of the richest men on the planet, Laurence Rockefeller funded Pulitzer Prize-winning, Harvard psychologist John Mack’s research into alien abductions for many years.  Makes you wonder why?
 

I suppose we’ll never find out now that Mack was killed by a drunk driver in London.