Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[ri Alban]

Tier 4 from Friday. It really should be immediate, but the saviours have our backs, so Friday it is. 

[PapaShango]

Pinocchio SNP and Sturgeon strike again. Absolutely clueless all the way through this pandemic and need to be removed from Government. I never usually agree with a tory but Boris was bang on the money, Devolution has been a disaster. SNP have fudged everything, taxes, Education, Healthcare. They are basically a cult of uneducated elected members of a diddy Parliament telling people what to do. Sooner everyone wakes up and vote them out next May the better. 

 

Sturgeon is revelling in the headlines over this, her daily PPB needs stopped as well.  

[Auldbenches]

1 minute ago, steve123 said:

So are children allowed to travel from say Edinburgh Council to Fife Council for sports classes ?

 

To give it a bit of context we live in South Queensferry and the wee one does gymnastics 5 minutes over the bridge but wondering if taking her would now make me a criminal ...

I think you'll be alright.  She could get up to five years though. 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Until the 11th of December.

👍

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

I think you'll be alright.  She could get up to five years though. 

 

Cheers mate, not bothered about her will be a good education will mean she will never want to go back just aslong as I am not locked up 😂

[Bongo 1874]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/science/coronavirus-new-face-mask-kills-23023269.amp&ved=2ahUKEwi4mcG7hortAhUFYcAKHQGrAcIQ0PADegQIChA8&usg=AOvVaw1CBhcCmG4uUK-9EYQZv_2J

[coconut doug]

43 minutes ago, weehammy said:

* That was an official broadcast on behalf of the Scottish National Party.

 

 

Is there any inaccuracy in the post?

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Pinocchio SNP and Sturgeon strike again. Absolutely clueless all the way through this pandemic and need to be removed from Government. I never usually agree with a tory but Boris was bang on the money, Devolution has been a disaster. SNP have fudged everything, taxes, Education, Healthcare. They are basically a cult of uneducated elected members of a diddy Parliament telling people what to do. Sooner everyone wakes up and vote them out next May the better. 

 

Sturgeon is revelling in the headlines over this, her daily PPB needs stopped as well.  

[Bongo 1874]

Moderna win approval 👍. 

 

Dear oh dear Mr Johnson and Handcock 🙈. 

 

Partly funded by Dolly Parton 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Bongo 1874

[Governor Tarkin]

16 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You've made a tit of yourself with your ridiculous claims that there was no way Sturgeon would put Glasgow in a higher tier than Edinburgh.

It's ok to admit it.

 

I think the gripe was that she wouldn't move Edinburgh to a lower tier - thereby granting us greater freedoms - than Glasgow, whilst keeping Glasgow where it was.

 

It's a subtle difference but one that's absolutely crucial to the point. 👍 

[coconut doug]

5 minutes ago, weehammy said:

All posts in here that you disagree with are I inaccurate according to you. It seems all we have to do is endure the daily political grandstand and all will be clear.

is your real name Murrell?

 

Missed the point again. You have criticised my post so i am asking you where the inaccuracies are. Not much of an argument to mock my post because it sounds like government propaganda to you, but then find yourself unable to tell us what is inaccurate.

[Malinga the Swinga]

18 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You've made a tit of yourself with your ridiculous claims that there was no way Sturgeon would put Glasgow in a higher tier than Edinburgh.

It's ok to admit it.

Great, different tiers was what I wanted and expected. Well done Nicola. Now, can she clarify what took her so long to do it, when everything and everyone, except the usual suspects, knew it was required. Weeks of delay before being forced to finally act is something you and your pals delight in criticising BJ and UK government for. 

 

[redjambo]

A wee chart showing councils ordered by today's 7-day per-100,000 case level, colour coded by the upcoming tier levels. Significant jumps in the rate for Clackmannanshire, Renfrewshire and Stirling.

 

Council Area	Tier	7-day per-100,000
		Today	Yesterday	Change
Glasgow City	4	278	266	12
Renfrewshire	4	264	233	31
North Lanarkshire	4	251	238	13
South Lanarkshire	4	241	222	19
East Dunbartonshire	4	222	216	6
Stirling	4	214	190	24
East Renfrewshire	4	198	190	8
West Lothian	4	181	169	12
West Dunbartonshire	4	179	180	-1
South Ayrshire	4	165	161	4
Clackmannanshire	3	163	128	35
East Ayrshire	4	153	154	-1
Dundee City	3	150	142	8
Fife	3	146	139	7
North Ayrshire	3	116	125	-9
Perth and Kinross	3	101	87	14
Falkirk	3	98	96	2
Inverclyde	3	96	95	1
Angus	3	90	84	6
Edinburgh City	3	89	87	2
Midlothian	2	71	66	5
Scottish Borders	2	71	72	-1
Aberdeen City	2	61	56	5
Aberdeenshire	2	61	54	7
East Lothian	2	58	59	-1
Dumfries and Galloway	2	48	48	0
Argyll and Bute	2	36	31	5
Moray	1	27	30	-3
Highland	1	22	24	-2
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	19	19	0
Orkney Islands	1	4	4	0
Shetland Islands	1	4	4	0

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I think the gripe was that she wouldn't move Edinburgh to a lower tier - thereby granting us greater freedoms - than Glasgow, whilst keeping Glasgow where it was.

 

It's a subtle difference but one that's absolutely crucial to the point. 👍 

It was point, and you and most others knew that. No excuse or reason for delay. It could have cost life's or at least cases of infection. 

[coconut doug]

34 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It was never about being harsher, it was about doing right thing quickly and fairly. Stop deflecting. 

 

What should have been done then? 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

A wee chart showing councils ordered by today's 7-day per-100,000 case level, colour coded by the upcoming tier levels. Significant jumps in the rate for Clackmannanshire, Renfrewshire and Stirling.

 

Council Area	Tier	7-day per-100,000
		Today	Yesterday	Change
Glasgow City	4	278	266	12
Renfrewshire	4	264	233	31
North Lanarkshire	4	251	238	13
South Lanarkshire	4	241	222	19
East Dunbartonshire	4	222	216	6
Stirling	4	214	190	24
East Renfrewshire	4	198	190	8
West Lothian	4	181	169	12
West Dunbartonshire	4	179	180	-1
South Ayrshire	4	165	161	4
Clackmannanshire	3	163	128	35
East Ayrshire	4	153	154	-1
Dundee City	3	150	142	8
Fife	3	146	139	7
North Ayrshire	3	116	125	-9
Perth and Kinross	3	101	87	14
Falkirk	3	98	96	2
Inverclyde	3	96	95	1
Angus	3	90	84	6
Edinburgh City	3	89	87	2
Midlothian	2	71	66	5
Scottish Borders	2	71	72	-1
Aberdeen City	2	61	56	5
Aberdeenshire	2	61	54	7
East Lothian	2	58	59	-1
Dumfries and Galloway	2	48	48	0
Argyll and Bute	2	36	31	5
Moray	1	27	30	-3
Highland	1	22	24	-2
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	19	19	0
Orkney Islands	1	4	4	0
Shetland Islands	1	4	4	0

Appreciate the statistics you post.

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

A wee chart showing councils ordered by today's 7-day per-100,000 case level, colour coded by the upcoming tier levels. Significant jumps in the rate for Clackmannanshire, Renfrewshire and Stirling.

 

Council Area	Tier	7-day per-100,000
		Today	Yesterday	Change
Glasgow City	4	278	266	12
Renfrewshire	4	264	233	31
North Lanarkshire	4	251	238	13
South Lanarkshire	4	241	222	19
East Dunbartonshire	4	222	216	6
Stirling	4	214	190	24
East Renfrewshire	4	198	190	8
West Lothian	4	181	169	12
West Dunbartonshire	4	179	180	-1
South Ayrshire	4	165	161	4
Clackmannanshire	3	163	128	35
East Ayrshire	4	153	154	-1
Dundee City	3	150	142	8
Fife	3	146	139	7
North Ayrshire	3	116	125	-9
Perth and Kinross	3	101	87	14
Falkirk	3	98	96	2
Inverclyde	3	96	95	1
Angus	3	90	84	6
Edinburgh City	3	89	87	2
Midlothian	2	71	66	5
Scottish Borders	2	71	72	-1
Aberdeen City	2	61	56	5
Aberdeenshire	2	61	54	7
East Lothian	2	58	59	-1
Dumfries and Galloway	2	48	48	0
Argyll and Bute	2	36	31	5
Moray	1	27	30	-3
Highland	1	22	24	-2
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	19	19	0
Orkney Islands	1	4	4	0
Shetland Islands	1	4	4	0

 

Surely this table demonstrates beyond all doubt that the decision making is data driven.

[GinRummy]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

Surely this table demonstrates beyond all doubt that the decision making is data driven.

Surely the question is - when did it start being data driven? If the data your talking about is the data in Red’s post it seems to have started today. 

[steve123]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

A wee chart showing councils ordered by today's 7-day per-100,000 case level, colour coded by the upcoming tier levels. Significant jumps in the rate for Clackmannanshire, Renfrewshire and Stirling.

 

Council Area	Tier	7-day per-100,000
		Today	Yesterday	Change
Glasgow City	4	278	266	12
Renfrewshire	4	264	233	31
North Lanarkshire	4	251	238	13
South Lanarkshire	4	241	222	19
East Dunbartonshire	4	222	216	6
Stirling	4	214	190	24
East Renfrewshire	4	198	190	8
West Lothian	4	181	169	12
West Dunbartonshire	4	179	180	-1
South Ayrshire	4	165	161	4
Clackmannanshire	3	163	128	35
East Ayrshire	4	153	154	-1
Dundee City	3	150	142	8
Fife	3	146	139	7
North Ayrshire	3	116	125	-9
Perth and Kinross	3	101	87	14
Falkirk	3	98	96	2
Inverclyde	3	96	95	1
Angus	3	90	84	6
Edinburgh City	3	89	87	2
Midlothian	2	71	66	5
Scottish Borders	2	71	72	-1
Aberdeen City	2	61	56	5
Aberdeenshire	2	61	54	7
East Lothian	2	58	59	-1
Dumfries and Galloway	2	48	48	0
Argyll and Bute	2	36	31	5
Moray	1	27	30	-3
Highland	1	22	24	-2
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	19	19	0
Orkney Islands	1	4	4	0
Shetland Islands	1	4	4	0

Kinda shows Edinburgh can't be far of level 2, although there was no way she could put the West into lockdown and start serving alcohol in Edinburgh on the same week.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Irufushi said:

Over 2 million a month to run allegedly. Sat empty for 8 months. 

Yep.....

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

Surely this table demonstrates beyond all doubt that the decision making is data driven.

 

There is of course other data that is taken into account, including the all-important hospital capacity, but it does appear to show that the 7-day case rate is a very important indicator and also that, going by that indicator alone, the decision-making does appear to be data driven. I would like to say "at last" because there have been significant anomalies in the past, noticeably in the previous reticence of the authorities to go to tier 4 for the Lanarkshires, most of Greater Glasgow, and possibly some of the Ayrshires.

 

I personally called it completely wrong because I didn't think that they would split up regions outwith perhaps only Grampian. They have done so, and correctly, imo. It will only work though if there is a proper clampdown on travel between areas with differing levels. This is obviously the way the Government is thinking given their making travel restrictions law on Friday. May be very difficult to enforce though...

[The Mighty Thor]

 

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 It will only work though if there is a proper clampdown on travel between areas with differing levels. This is obviously the way the Government is thinking given their making travel restrictions law on Friday. May be very difficult to enforce though...

The lack of any kind of enforcement and the softly softly approach is part of the reason we're in the state we're in. 

[Victorian]

23 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

It really is time for certain posters to take a step back from internet right now

 

I agree but it's probably a wider number of people than you had in mind.  

[Brighton Jambo]

43 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You've made a tit of yourself with your ridiculous claims that there was no way Sturgeon would put Glasgow in a higher tier than Edinburgh.

It's ok to admit it.

And you have made a tit of yourself coming on here trying to pretend this hasn’t been a total shambles for weeks.  An absolute total shambles that you continue to try and defend via all means necessary.

 

The Scottish government have got this absolutely wrong and people are suffering as a result.  It’s ok to admit it.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

10 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Kinda shows Edinburgh can't be far of level 2, although there was no way she could put the West into lockdown and start serving alcohol in Edinburgh on the same week.

Good to know I am not only one who believes that. As it stands, you can get bus to Musselburgh and have a pint, but not in Portobello. Seems ridiculous to me. Not sure what others think or believe. 

[steve123]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Good to know I am not only one who believes that. As it stands, you can get bus to Musselburgh and have a pint, but not in Portobello. Seems ridiculous to me. Not sure what others think or believe. 

Its crazy like, I mean been mentioned before and I am certainly not complaining but people from Edinburgh not being able to go to Ikea etc is pretty mental.

[Victorian]

Urgency of action and strict enforcement.  Two newish narratives espoused by people who now privately accept that the stuff they used to moan about was largely correct.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

21 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

What should have been done then? 

Lanarkshire and Greater Glasgow should have been tier 4 from start. It was so obvious but she dithered and delayed until she was forced into doing what had to be done. Imo, if stats had shown Lothians or Aberdeen to be that high, they would have been moved into tier 4 immediately. 

That is my opinion, it can't be proved correct and it can't be proved incorrect. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Urgency of action and strict enforcement.  Two newish narratives espoused by people who now privately accept that the stuff they used to moan about was largely correct.  

Deflection and excuse making. Two newish narratives espoused by people who now privately accept the stuff they used to moan about was largely correct. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Its crazy like, I mean been mentioned before and I am certainly not complaining but people from Edinburgh not being able to go to Ikea etc is pretty mental.

I can see Straiton from house and it takes approx 4 minutes to get there. It is nearer than Edinburgh shops and I pass less people going. Now apparently that isn't allowed. Madness, just madness. 

[steve123]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

They shouldn’t have been going when IKEA was in level 3. 

Nope but it was guidance and not against the law.

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Good to know I am not only one who believes that. As it stands, you can get bus to Musselburgh and have a pint, but not in Portobello. Seems ridiculous to me. Not sure what others think or believe. 

One of the issues for me is that people are, in general, not as afraid of Covid as they were during the first lockdown. I’ve not been a fan of splitting a tiny country into tiny bits and trying to almost micromanage the situation. I suppose the tier system has a chance of working if there is a high level of compliance but I am concerned economic damage is being done and we won’t see a significant fall in infection rates. 
 

As for the Musselburgh/Edinburgh situation, it’s obviously ridiculous. 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

I can see Straiton from house and it takes approx 4 minutes to get there. It is nearer than Edinburgh shops and I pass less people going. Now apparently that isn't allowed. Madness, just madness. 

Agree, it's mental.

 

They'll never be able to stop people going from Edinburgh to Straiton shops and to be honest, I don't think they'll even try to enforce it

[coconut doug]

58 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I think it's hospitals not hospitality she needs to sort out. Even before Covid we had the £1m a day cost of the new Sick Kids hospital that can't open. Not to mention the hospital in Glasgow spreading disease due to pigeons in the water tanks. Now, Covid infections increasingly spreading within hospitals. How that Jean Jeanie woman is still in position beggars belief.  I suppose it doesn't help her separation obsession if she has to sack ministers.

 

£1 million a day you say. Is this not another exhibit from your compendium of made up statistics? Unless of course you can show it to be true. 

  Is the new sick kids not at least partly open and hasn't it been for some time?

 

Didn't they have an enquiry and find that there was no evidence to prove that contamination caused avoidable deaths at QE hospital in Glasgow? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53041040

 

Are covid infections increasingly spreading in hospitals? How do you know this or are you just guessing because it was not that long ago when we had hardly any cases in Scotland?

 

Imagine if talented people in government were routinely sacked on the say so of ranting Sun readers using made up statistics and bogus information. Where would we be then?

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

They shouldn’t have been going when IKEA was in level 3. 

Then why was IKEA open? It’s absolutely obvious that people who go to IKEA are from Edinburgh. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, steve123 said:

Its crazy like, I mean been mentioned before and I am certainly not complaining but people from Edinburgh not being able to go to Ikea etc is pretty mental.

 

I take the boy to the family swimming sessions at Loanhead a couple of times a week. Keeps up his confidence in the water with hos swimming classes still cancelled, and gives the laddie something to do what with all the toddler clubs etc still shut or operating with so many restrictions it's no fun for anyone. 

The pool is 7 minutes in the car from my front door, but from Friday it'll be against the law to take him. It's a bit shit but hey ho. If we were given the carrot of a drop in tier to look forward to I'd be less inclined to feel a bit agrieved.

[coconut doug]

30 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Surely the question is - when did it start being data driven? If the data your talking about is the data in Red’s post it seems to have started today. 

 

No we've been in a tiered system for weeks where tiers have been allocated using at least 5 different criteria. In pointing out today's figures i am showing that for at least one criteria there is a clear relationship. Many on here don't know what the other criteria are and question the decision making because they think there is only one criterion. For the time being at least that argument is over. 

[theshed]

19 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Good to know I am not only one who believes that. As it stands, you can get bus to Musselburgh and have a pint, but not in Portobello. Seems ridiculous to me. Not sure what others think or believe. 

 

Im from Musselburgh and it’s madness 

Next week for example I will be working in Edinburgh and Glasgow. 

After work I can have a pint in the ravelston  in Musselburgh then walk 10 mins along to joppa/ portobello but can’t get a pint 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No we've been in a tiered system for weeks where tiers have been allocated using at least 5 different criteria. In pointing out today's figures i am showing that for at least one criteria there is a clear relationship. Many on here don't know what the other criteria are and question the decision making because they think there is only one criterion. For the time being at least that argument is over. 

So yes. By today’s figures the argument is over. It seems strange given the other factors, hospital admissions and capacity, proximity to high risk areas that suddenly all these other factors are almost perfectly aligned (when before different factors prevented lower infection rate areas being tiered accordingly) with infection rates. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No we've been in a tiered system for weeks where tiers have been allocated using at least 5 different criteria. In pointing out today's figures i am showing that for at least one criteria there is a clear relationship. Many on here don't know what the other criteria are and question the decision making because they think there is only one criterion. For the time being at least that argument is over. 

 

I've been asking you politely for about a fortnight if you would be so kind as to enlighten me in terms of the other criteria, but you've thus far neglected to do so.

Why, doug?

Why?

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Governor Tarkin

[Heartsmad1874]

 

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

It’s published every time the levels are announced, they did alter some of the terminology used, like instead of numbering the used very low, low up to very high etc. 

 

I wanted to hear it from doug.

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

It’s published every time the levels are announced, they did alter some of the terminology used, like instead of numbering the used very low, low up to very high etc. 

You’re a clued up guy on all the Covid 19 stuff. Surely you’re not happy with Scotland’s implementation of the tier system?

[JyTees]

2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

And make them pay for it

 

Like your style 👍🏻

[Weakened Offender]

16 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I wanted to hear it from doug.

 

Spewing 😁

[graygo]

3 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

The numbers show they really couldn't have got it more wrong. However, we are where we are now. There's nothing else that can be locked down (except schools), so surely the numbers have to reduce?

 

Couldn't have got it more wrong? What's the current situation at our nearest neighbours? 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Glasgow and Lanarkshire should have been in 4 from the start, Edinburgh probably should be 2 now. Although I’m not sure what difference 4/3 will really make. When the restrictions on visiting houses was first brought in then it needed compliance to work and I think certain areas have not cared one bit. 
 

Why there isn’t a schools closed or at least the blended learning model they were going to use in August. 
 

People are openly breaking guidelines, some are even proud of it, how a government can cope with that I don’t know. If the population at large don’t believe, or at least almost all of them, that their actions are causing people to die, then it’s hard to blame the government too much. 
 

I don’t really hold much for the my house is ten minutes from a different council area, 🤷‍♂️

All balanced and fair.

 

Coming from musselburgh I, probably unsurprisingly, do think adjacent areas in different tiers is asking for trouble. Suppose boundaries need to be made somewhere and somehow. 

[Victorian]

24 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Like a few others I’m far from convinced these measures will get the numbers down to where they want. I’m not sure where SG go then 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

I suppose the next stop is schools going to blended learning. 

 

Does feel like we are shutting things down more in hope than expectation right now. 

 

Two week, which was actually longer, reset/circuit break/firebreaker. Didn’t do the job. The tier system is a few weeks old and full lockdown ins activated within a significant portion of the country. Hasn’t seem to have done the job. I’m not convinced the closing of facilities such as gyms, hairdressers, non essential shops etc are hubs for COVID spread.

 

What was meant to happen hasn’t happened. 

 

There isn’t really all that much of life left to shut down. Maybe they call the school holidays early. On the schools I would have thought they would have fairly good data on the school subject. No of cases in schools, the impact when school holidays on on r number etc. 

 

Will also be interesting now see what happens to central belt as its has now been treated differently with regards to restrictions.

 

 

 

 

 

I think so.  I think everything is being done to keep schools closing off the agenda but I'm convinced they will close the schools if absolutely necessary.  There was an option to close them a few weeks ahead of the Christmas holidays and it now looks like the latest option is to close them for a few weeks after the holidays.  It's a last ditch option they're keeping under wraps until it's needed imo.   I think they'll close or partly close at some point.  Only a matter of time.

[Enzo Chiefo]

38 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

£1 million a day you say. Is this not another exhibit from your compendium of made up statistics? Unless of course you can show it to be true. 

  Is the new sick kids not at least partly open and hasn't it been for some time?

 

Didn't they have an enquiry and find that there was no evidence to prove that contamination caused avoidable deaths at QE hospital in Glasgow? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-53041040

 

Are covid infections increasingly spreading in hospitals? How do you know this or are you just guessing because it was not that long ago when we had hardly any cases in Scotland?

 

Imagine if talented people in government were routinely sacked on the say so of ranting Sun readers using made up statistics and bogus information. Where would we be then?

Your unswerving devotion to all things SNP is admirable but bereft of any credibility.  No, the Sick Kids is not open. Yet another revised opening date has been provided for January. Yes, my stat was tongue in cheek but it has cost millions to have it empty while maintaining the original hospital. Anybody defending the farcical project can only be doing so from an ideological standpoint.  There will now be 3 (THREE)  public inquiries into building and safety failures at new hospitals in Scotland. The inquiry you refer to , found that vulnerable patients were put at "unnecessary risk" due to safety and hygiene failures.

A spreadsheet error relating to the ventilation system at the new Sick Kids was not picked up in 7 years. That is beyond parody and a damning indictment about the SNP govt.  Yes, figures are available that confirm that infections are increasing within hospitals have been rising since September.  

Finally, have you any evidence that I am a Sun reader? I'm not. A fully paid up Times reader as it happens.  Please don't try to defend the indefensible. It aint a good look.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, PapaShango said:

Pinocchio SNP and Sturgeon strike again. Absolutely clueless all the way through this pandemic and need to be removed from Government. I never usually agree with a tory but Boris was bang on the money, Devolution has been a disaster. SNP have fudged everything, taxes, Education, Healthcare. They are basically a cult of uneducated elected members of a diddy Parliament telling people what to do. Sooner everyone wakes up and vote them out next May the better. 

 

Sturgeon is revelling in the headlines over this, her daily PPB needs stopped as well.