Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't think it is sensible to  name pubs but I was in Leith and there had been no attempt to protect their customers. However if you want to believe it's rumour and innuendo, that's up to you.

I can’t praise my local highly enough.
Staff and customers comply exemplary.

[lost in leith]

8 hours ago, redjambo said:

Here's the reasoning that was used to place the council areas in their original tiers (PDF file so if you work for the SPFL you may not be able to read it).

 

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2020/10/coronavirus-covid-19-allocation-of-levels-to-local-authorities/documents/allocation-of-levels-to-local-authorities/allocation-of-levels-to-local-authorities/govscot%3Adocument/Allocation%2Bof%2Blevels%2Bto%2Blocal%2Bauthorities%2B-%2Bcorrected%2B-%2B29%2BOctober%2B2020%2B2.pdf

 

First of all thanks for posting this link and for your regular updates on the data.  

 

For those who haven't seen this document, it sets out the indicators which help to determine which level should be allocated to a local authority.  

 

a) The number of cases per 100,000 people over the past seven days.

b) The percentage of tests that are positive over the past seven days.

c) Forecasts of the number of cases per 100,000 consisting of the weekly number of cases in two weeks’ time.

d) Current and projected future use of local hospital beds, compared with capacity.

e) Current and projected future use of intensive care beds, compared with capacity.

 

Annex A has a table which gives a score for each local authority for each indicator.  Annex A refers to an 'evidence paper'.  I'm pretty sure it is this paper, though it is called a 'modelling paper'. 

 

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2020/10/coronavirus-covid-19-allocation-of-levels-to-local-authorities/documents/modelling-paper/modelling-paper/govscot%3Adocument/Modelling%2B-%2BPaper%2B-%2BLocal%2Bauthority%2Blevels%2B28%2Boct.pdf

 

Annex A also gives the level allocated to each local authority and Annex B gives a rationale for the decision.

 

Some of the detailed rules for each level are set out in this document, in Annex 1 and Annex 2 (Hospitality). 

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/covid-19-scotlands-strategic-framework/

 

A few thoughts -

 

Levels -  Ministers have really hard decisions to make and that the data is not as robust as we would like it to be.  The combination of the data doesn't feed into an algorithm.  There are other factors (some are listed in para 19 of the document Redjambo provided a link to) and the SG have been open about the fact that some decisions are borderline.  However, some of the decisions are quite hard to follow.  North and South Lanarkshire score 4 in every category from a-e above.  The scores for Edinburgh are 2-3-0-0-0 but Edinburgh is in the same level as Lanarkshire.  The Borders are 1-1-0-0-0 but they are in Level 2.  Some eg Highland score 0 across the board but are in level 1.  

 

Travel - it is hard to avoid the conclusion that travel from higher risk areas to lower risk areas is one of the SG's main concerns.  My gut feel is that trying to enforce compliance here is similar to enforcing the rules on household gatherings - too hard to do properly.  Unfortunately I agree with those who believe that Edinburgh may well be stuck in a higher level than can be justified by the raw data until the position improves dramatically in the rest of the Central Belt.  

 

Level 0 - this is described as being close to normality.  From a quick read of the last document 'near normality' involves the likes of - 

 

Restricted numbers in stadia;

Groups meeting indoors restricted to 8 from no more than 3 households;

All customers in licensed premises to be seated at tables; and

Numbers at weddings, funerals and places of worship restricted to 50.

 

Vaccine - obviously today's news is excellent. However, we know that a programme to roll out the vaccine will be a huge logistical exercise which could easily run towards the end of 2021.  The current SG view is that level 0 is "the closest we can get to normality, without a vaccine or effective treatment in place".  My worry is that the SG will take the view that the virus is most likely to be spread by the under 50s, who will be at the end of the queue for the vaccine as they are at least risk of serious harm (unless they have an underlying health condition).  Therefore we can't move beyond level 0 until the programme is complete.

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

Thank feck the vaccine is on it's way. Hopefully get to the Cup final. 

     

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

Isolating and where the virus is being passed is not the same thing. My kids small primary school had two positive tests isolating 90 pupils and staff, only two classes have not had to isolate so far and yet not one transmission has happened in the school. 
 

I think there is a case for older kids years to be home learning. 
 

 

The number of pupils isolating trebled in one week. Trebled.

That kind of trend has seen everyone unable to visit parents and families and sectors of industry decimated. 

That kind of trend is why we're still up over 1000 new cases per day 6 weeks after restrictions were brought in. 

If SG are serious in wanting to tackle the spread of this virus, which they are clearly not, then the answer is as clear as day. 

[ri Alban]

38 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The number of pupils isolating trebled in one week. Trebled.

That kind of trend has seen everyone unable to visit parents and families and sectors of industry decimated. 

That kind of trend is why we're still up over 1000 new cases per day 6 weeks after restrictions were brought in. 

If SG are serious in wanting to tackle the spread of this virus, which they are clearly not, then the answer is as clear as day. 

High schools should be closed, but not Primary Schools. 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The number of pupils isolating trebled in one week. Trebled.

That kind of trend has seen everyone unable to visit parents and families and sectors of industry decimated. 

That kind of trend is why we're still up over 1000 new cases per day 6 weeks after restrictions were brought in. 

If SG are serious in wanting to tackle the spread of this virus, which they are clearly not, then the answer is as clear as day. 

 

Edit: Sorry, think I misunderstood what you posted.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by graygo

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

I don't think it is sensible to  name pubs but I was in Leith and there had been no attempt to protect their customers. However if you want to believe it's rumour and innuendo, that's up to you.

Not going to name any that were not compliant either. Been in 5 in and around Edinburgh. The Mitre Bar and The Amber Rose were fully compliant with all the rules, both shut along with all the premises that spent nothing to comply and ignored rules.

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Not going to name any that were not compliant either. Been in 5 in and around Edinburgh. The Mitre Bar and The Amber Rose were fully compliant with all the rules, both shut along with all the premises that spent nothing to comply and ignored rules.

Sad state of affairs.

[Ray Gin]

22 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Not going to name any that were not compliant either. Been in 5 in and around Edinburgh. The Mitre Bar and The Amber Rose were fully compliant with all the rules, both shut along with all the premises that spent nothing to comply and ignored rules.

 

Did they ensure different households were 2 metres apart from each other? I've not seen any pub successfully do this because it's near impossible. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

Did they ensure different households were 2 metres apart from each other? I've not seen any pub successfully do this because it's near impossible. 

Were the rules in pubs not changed to 1 metre? Maybe that was just a suggestion and never brought in but I remember readibg about it. In answer to your question, tables in both these premises were either blanked off or moved to ensure distancing was in place.

[jack D and coke]

11 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

What are people's thoughts then?, do they think we can go back to how things were. 

 

Can covid 19 be eradicated?. 

 

Do you have faith and trust in the governments?. 

Probably just a pessimistic morning view but no I don’t. Can you honestly see yourself in the next year or so at a packed tynecastle? A gig or festival? Even just really busy shops or bars. I just don’t tbh. 
 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Were the rules in pubs not changed to 1 metre? Maybe that was just a suggestion and never brought in but I remember readibg about it. In answer to your question, tables in both these premises were either blanked off or moved to ensure distancing was in place.

 

Yes 1m and I would think most people sitting across a table from each other would be at least 1m apart. Sitting side by side shouldn't have been happening.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Yes 1m and I would think most people sitting across a table from each other would be at least 1m apart. Sitting side by side shouldn't have been happening.

 

They'd have been more likely to be 1m+ apart in one of these settings than they would at home for a meal or even at work to be honest.

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Did they ensure different households were 2 metres apart from each other? I've not seen any pub successfully do this because it's near impossible. 

 

Ive been in the Grosvenor and they give you adjacent tables.  Not for 2m - 1m.

 

You can't have people in hospitality with 2 metre rules.

Edited November 10, 2020 by frankblack

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

High schools should be closed, but not Primary Schools. 

Terrible idea. Destroy childrens education and leave them, especially in poorer areas, to be stuck with no prospects of continuing to learn. 

 

Don't understand the rush to harm the youth of country. 

 

Government said that they would keep schools open and that is what they should do. 

[mutley]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Thank feck the vaccine is on it's way. Hopefully get to the Cup final. 

     

The cup final in 40 days time?

[frankblack]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

Terrible idea. Destroy childrens education and leave them, especially in poorer areas, to be stuck with no prospects of continuing to learn. 

 

Don't understand the rush to harm the youth of country. 

 

Government said that they would keep schools open and that is what they should do. 

 

Not when the kids won't stick to the rules with masks and social distancing and infections are spreading rapidly through schools.

 

They can't be trusted, I'm afraid.

[frankblack]

Just now, mutley said:

The cup final in 40 days time?

 

He can always stand around outside Hampden and cheer on Hearts I suppose...

[willie wallace]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Thank feck the vaccine is on it's way. Hopefully get to the Cup final. 

     

Over 65s including me will be there with our vaccine report cheering the boys on.

Probably have special pubs open for us as well.

Hope the young team are allowed to attend the victory parade though.😃👍

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, willie wallace said:

Over 65s including me will be there with our vaccine report cheering the boys on.

Probably have special pubs open for us as well.

Hope the young team are allowed to attend the victory parade though.😃👍

[Heartsmad1874]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Probably just a pessimistic morning view but no I don’t. Can you honestly see yourself in the next year or so at a packed tynecastle? A gig or festival? Even just really busy shops or bars. I just don’t tbh. 
 

It will certainly feel weird going back to sold out football matches, gigs and nightclubs plus other things that always involve being very close to strangers without the need for a mask or any distancing.

 

 

[frankblack]

29 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Probably just a pessimistic morning view but no I don’t. Can you honestly see yourself in the next year or so at a packed tynecastle? A gig or festival? Even just really busy shops or bars. I just don’t tbh. 
 

 

The ticket companies seem confident that the likes of TRANSMT will go ahead with some kind of testing "passes" required before and after for every person + quarantine.

 

I'll be passing on that as its ridiculous.

[jack D and coke]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

The ticket companies seem confident that the likes of TRANSMT will go ahead with some kind of testing "passes" required before and after for every person + quarantine.

 

I'll be passing on that as its ridiculous.

They just don’t want to refund anyone. You won’t be at a gig for a long time imo. 

[GinRummy]

16 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

It will certainly feel weird going back to sold out football matches, gigs and nightclubs plus other things that always involve being very close to strangers without the need for a mask or any distancing.

 

 

It definitely will. I wonder how long it will take for it to feel normal again.

[Ron Burgundy]

19 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Terrible idea. Destroy childrens education and leave them, especially in poorer areas, to be stuck with no prospects of continuing to learn. 

 

Don't understand the rush to harm the youth of country. 

 

Government said that they would keep schools open and that is what they should do. 

Agreed.

Destroy future generations for what exactly?  I would understand if this virus was killing indiscriminately but the average age of it's victims is higher than the national life expectancy.

Old people in particular are quite likely to die of minor illnesses that don't affect the young or healthy .

Sad as it seems life is not never ending. I say this as someone who has young kids and elderly relatives. 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It definitely will. I wonder how long it will take for it to feel normal again.

 

Less than 5 minutes I should imagine. 👍

[GinRummy]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Less than 5 minutes I should imagine. 👍

Hope so. Hadn't really thought about it until i read Heartsmad 1874 post. It's almost second nature to give people more space when you pass them or are in the same building as them.

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Less than 5 minutes I should imagine. 👍

For some yes but for many who have just been going to work and the shops for the last 7/8 months and will be over a year by the time they get to enjoy lifes joys of going to football, gigs etc it certainly will take them time to get used to the old normal again.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Agreed.

Destroy future generations for what exactly?  I would understand if this virus was killing indiscriminately but the average age of it's victims is higher than the national life expectancy.

Old people in particular are quite likely to die of minor illnesses that don't affect the young or healthy .

Sad as it seems life is not never ending. I say this as someone who has young kids and elderly relatives. 

 

So, just let the kids go about flouting the rules while they infect each other and kill off their grandparents and elderly relatives?

[Ray Gin]

 

43 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Were the rules in pubs not changed to 1 metre? Maybe that was just a suggestion and never brought in but I remember readibg about it. In answer to your question, tables in both these premises were either blanked off or moved to ensure distancing was in place.

 

But if a group of 4 friends turned up did they all sit at their own separate table (over 1 metre apart) or at the same table?

 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Heartsmad1874 said:

For some yes but for many who have just been going to work and the shops for the last 7/8 months and will be over a year by the time they get to enjoy lifes joys of going to football, gigs etc it certainly will take them time to get used to the old normal again.

 

I repectfully disagree, bud. The mind is a resiliant thing. Some will need help, sure, and there will be a novelty at first, obviously, but for the majority of folk the flip back to relative normality will be almost seamless. 

[Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So, just let the kids go about flouting the rules while they infect each other and kill off their grandparents and elderly relatives?

Are they? My kids are not flouting rules. 

Politicians are flouting rules.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

But if a group of 4 friends turned up did they all sit at their own separate table (over 1 metre apart) or at the same table?

 

How would i know, sorry. Not getting your point.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, GinRummy said:

How would i know, sorry. Not getting your point.

 

The point is that different households were meant to be socially distanced from each other but this wasn't happening. Group of mates were all sitting shoulder to shoulder at the same table. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The point is that different households were meant to be socially distanced from each other but this wasn't happening. Group of mates were all sitting shoulder to shoulder at the same table. 

Or on the same bus or train or car or plane or cafe or house or hotel or student halls or high school?

Edited November 10, 2020 by GinRummy

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

But if a group of 4 friends turned up did they all sit at their own separate table (over 1 metre apart) or at the same table?

 

 

Throughout all of this have you never strayed within 1m of anyone who wasn't from your bubble, Ray?

 

I was probably only in half a dozen pubs in the time they were open and there was only one that I felt uncomfortable in. This was 100% down to the other punters and not the staff - who were taking absolute pelters for trying to enforce the rules. 

[Heartsmad1874]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Throughout all of this have you never strayed within 1m of anyone who wasn't from your bubble, Ray?

 

I was probably only in half a dozen pubs in the time they were open and there was only one that I felt uncomfortable in. This was 100% down to the other punters and not the staff - who were taking absolute pelters for trying to enforce the rules. 

I work in Sainsburys and there's been plenty of time someone has been within one metre of me, masks are defo a false sense of security for a lot of people in supermarkets.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So, just let the kids go about flouting the rules while they infect each other and kill off their grandparents and elderly relatives?

I can never work out what it is you want Frank. You seem to want the place opened up yet the police steaming in? You seem to want the tier dropped in Edinburgh but kids obviously batoned to stop them flouting rules and killing their grandparents? 
I think we know it’s just giving the SG a dunt in the mooth you like doing. 

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I can never work out what it is you want Frank. You seem to want the place opened up yet the police steaming in? You seem to want the tier dropped in Edinburgh but kids obviously batoned to stop them flouting rules and killing their grandparents? 
I think we know it’s just giving the SG a dunt in the mooth you like doing. 

 

I want the SG to be honest and give transparent data on where the infections are spreading from.

 

The problem is of the SG's own making by making up 5 tiers and then keeping the majority of Scotland in two of them with vastly different rates of infections.

 

I think the SG can't say that other busineses must close to keep schools open if the data shows those busineses are not behind the rise in infections.

 

Why do you think the SG refuses to be transparent on the make-up of the track-and-trace data?  Perhaps it would undermine their political meddling in the decision making, don't you think?

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I want the SG to be honest and give transparent data on where the infections are spreading from.

 

The problem is of the SG's own making by making up 5 tiers and then keeping the majority of Scotland in two of them with vastly different rates of infections.

 

I think the SG can't say that other busineses must close to keep schools open if the data shows those busineses are not behind the rise in infections.

 

Why do you think the SG refuses to be transparent on the make-up of the track-and-trace data?  Perhaps it would undermine their political meddling in the decision making, don't you think?

I don’t think many governments anywhere are coming up trumps with this tbh mate. Everyone throwing wobblers and dicks on here and all social media with all the answers. The political stuff is really tiring. Personally I’d just like us all to get out of this and I’ll leave my political views at the door until we are. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t think many governments anywhere are coming up trumps with this tbh mate. Everyone throwing wobblers and dicks on here and all social media with all the answers. The political stuff is really tiring. Personally I’d just like us all to get out of this and I’ll leave my political views at the door until we are. 

Spot on.

[Taffin]

If we are pursuing (UK level) a policy of suppression, restrictions and lock downs, the schools should be closed. It undermines the rest of the efforts.

 

My preference would be schools to remain open however, along with pretty much everything else.

[Ray Gin]

55 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Throughout all of this have you never strayed within 1m of anyone who wasn't from your bubble, Ray?

 

I was probably only in half a dozen pubs in the time they were open and there was only one that I felt uncomfortable in. This was 100% down to the other punters and not the staff - who were taking absolute pelters for trying to enforce the rules. 

Yes I have, it's incredibly difficult to avoid, especially when drunk.

 

Like I say it's near impossible for pubs to enforce which is probably one of the key reasons they were first to close down.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ray Gin

[OmiyaHearts]

14 hours ago, SectionFJambo said:

Any stats to back up the industry that worked the hardest? a few plastic screens and packs of sanitiser is hardly ground breaking.

 

also stats going down since the measures were put in place - all a coincidence.

 

Hospitality just has the advantage it's much harder to track those cases back.

They were enforcing track and trace, cleaning all tables and equipment every 30 min, making sure customers stayed distanced, didn't move seats, wearing masks their whole shift, managing queues. That's just off the top of my head.

 

Loads of extra work, for the same money, then being made redundant because the Government closed them. I'm sure they appreciate the genuine empathy in your post.

[OmiyaHearts]

14 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I was in pubs where they didn't even ask your number so please stop posting shite. 

Maybe have a think about the shite pubs you drink in. 

[Ray Gin]

54 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Or on the same bus or train or car or plane or cafe or house or hotel or student halls or high school?

 

Public transport is essential for some, education has been deemed top priority. Sitting in a pub is not.

 

Cafés have the same problem but at least don't have drunk people to contend with.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Maybe have a think about the shite pubs you drink in. 

I have to say the ones around me were pretty strict. I feel for them tbh. 
And me😭

[Ray Gin]

A good webpage illustrating how  how coronavirus spreads through the air in various settings, including homes, bars and classrooms:

 

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ray Gin

[Weakened Offender]

6 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Maybe have a think about the shite pubs you drink in. 

 

I don't need to now because they're ALL closed. 😊

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Public transport is essential for some, education has been deemed top priority. Sitting in a pub is not.

 

Cafés have the same problem but at least don't have drunk people to contend with.

 

 

So risk is fine as long as you aren’t having a drink. Makes sense. 🙄