Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Surely we could put some kind of comprehensive support package in place for them? 

 

I'm still on furlough. I have zero confidence I'll have a job by the end of October as things stand, even with this new package. There's hundreds of thousands out there in the same boat. It's going to be utter carnage. 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not a decision I make willy-nilly. But at some point, a balance has to be reached. The removal of furlough, for me, has been that tipping point. 

 

This latest scheme is all about trying to instigate wholescale job sharing.   It's probably slightly misplaced and will be a much better idea during the recession yet to come.    It's also badly handicapped by the employer contribution element.    That's been chucked in to try to weed out supporting zombie jobs.    They're already looking at only supporting viable jobs.   Not people.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Poster boy? 

As one I suspect of your alleged "absolute bangers" what I have consistently said is that Sweden has done as a favour by adopting a different approach because it may provide some evidence of the merits of different approaches.  And I have also said consistently that it will be a long time maybe years before we can judge whether Sweden's alternative approach will prove to have been a success compared to others.

Yet you leap in on the basis of what you have read on Twitter,   to proclaim with apparent glee and a bit of gloating to rubbish  the Swedish approach just because short term lockdowns may be part of their approach.

Yip. You can evaluate it in a month, a year or a decade. The outcome will be the same. The Swedes will be no better off. 

Feel free to bookmark this. Sweden will go down the shitter. Soon.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The support measures are what they are and something like UBI could be introduced.   But even that represents a fraction of what many people need to earn to get by.    The unavoidable truth is that there are lots of people who have no choice but to keep working.    This could be 6 months and maybe more.   It's really not an option to fully support the whole income of so many people.    To do so would involve massively more red tape and a sort of health 'means testing' system to devise it.   Furlough was relatively simple to devise in comparison.

 

Fair challenge but is it better to just have a profession lottery where those who lose their jobs because their employer folds just get told "tough luck"?

 

The unavoidable truth is as you say, there are many people who have no choice to keep on working...except for vast, vast swathes it's not going to be an option they'll get to take up once their job goes, despite them not being at significant risk of illness from the disease, more than willing to work and desperate to keep a job they enjoy doing.

 

I'm in large hotel chain for work this week and overheard the barmaid telling someone that most of them will be getting made redundant next month. But they don't matter do they? Only those with Covid or the vulnerable matter? The very thing you're saying people have no choice but to keep doing is about to evaporate for huge numbers in the coming months, precisely because of the restrictions we are imposing.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Taffin

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Agree with you on the first two sentences, definitely. And as far as I can see, the wider strategy is no more nuanced than let's hope to hell it works!

 

I would suggest that those of working age, in good health and capable of going about their business have already shouldered their part of the burden.

 

Everyone needs to carry on shouldering the burden.    The more shouldering.. knocking off time comes around sooner.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Fair challenge but is it better to just have a profession lottery where those who lose their jobs because their employer folds just get told "tough luck"?

 

The unavoidable truth is as you say, there are many people who have no choice to keep on working...except for vast, vast swathes it's not going to be an option they'll get to take up once their job goes, despite them not being at significant risk of illness from the disease, more than willing to work and desperate to keep a job they enjoy doing.

 

I'm in large hotel chain for work this week and overheard the barmaid telling someone that most of them will be getting made redundant next month. But they don't matter do they? Only those with Covid or the vulnerable matter? The very thing you're saying people have no choice but to keep doing is about to evaporate for huge numbers in the coming months.

 

I agree.    Job losses are coming and a wide spectrum of people will be affected.    Those currently struggling on with health and financial concerns.   People of much better health and perhaps more comfortable wealth.    All sorts of different circumstances.    A hell of a lot of people will see themselves as having suffered disproportionately compared to others and some with justification.    

 

Job sharing is a very useful way ahead.   This scheme is the start of it under a different guise.    Expect a lot more mention of job sharing over the next few years.

[kila]

25 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Given the fact that we appear to be no further forward than we were in March, we may start to venture towards the conclusion that 'science' doesn't know a one-eyed trouser snake from a punched lasagna.

 

We're much further forward than in March!

 

Better understanding, some treatments starting to look proven, various vaccines entering human testing. We're locking down a little because cases are rising so quickly that it might only be a matter of time until some get it bad and are filling up hospitals again. But if the treatments end up being proven, or a vaccine is ready, then we can go back to normal quicker.

 

There are 20,000 in attendance as a test crowd at the UEFA Super Cup tonight. Some progress no?

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by kila

[Norm]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Fair challenge but is it better to just have a profession lottery where those who lose their jobs because their employer folds just get told "tough luck"?

 

The unavoidable truth is as you say, there are many people who have no choice to keep on working...except for vast, vast swathes it's not going to be an option they'll get to take up once their job goes, despite them not being at significant risk of illness from the disease, more than willing to work and desperate to keep a job they enjoy doing.

 

I'm in large hotel chain for work this week and overheard the barmaid telling someone that most of them will be getting made redundant next month. But they don't matter do they? Only those with Covid or the vulnerable matter? The very thing you're saying people have no choice but to keep doing is about to evaporate for huge numbers in the coming months, precisely because of the restrictions we are imposing.

Hospitality, tourism, travel - they're all going to be utterly ****ed. 500,000 people in Scotland all at huge risk of losing their jobs. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Normthebarman

[Nucky Thompson]

Why does Scotland need to have a different tracing app than the rest of the UK?

I have the Scottish one. but I travel to Northumberland every weekend. They are now saying we need the UK app to use their venues.

It won't let me have both Apps on my phone.

 

Sturgeon just wants to be different for the sake of it.

 

 Can't stand that Woman and her intolerance to England 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Yip. You can evaluate it in a month, a year or a decade. The outcome will be the same. The Swedes will be no better off. 

Feel free to bookmark this. Sweden will go down the shitter. Soon.

Good. Sounds I might not have to wait a decade.

Why do.people get so riled about Sweden?

[Victorian]

UBI is inevitable now.   The Tory neo-blue rinse brigade will be aghast but it's going to get traction.    If job sharing is high on the agenda then the two co-exist very neatly.    Would not surprise me at all if Sunak is already planning for UBI.

[Montgomery Brewster]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

UBI is inevitable now.   The Tory neo-blue rinse brigade will be aghast but it's going to get traction.    If job sharing is high on the agenda then the two co-exist very neatly.    Would not surprise me at all if Sunak is already planning for UBI.

Correct. Will be in Scotland even quicker.

[The Internet]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Why does Scotland need to have a different tracing app than the rest of the UK?

I have the Scottish one. but I travel to Northumberland every weekend. They are now saying we need the UK app to use their venues.

It won't let me have both Apps on my phone.

 

Sturgeon just wants to be different for the sake of it.

 

 Can't stand that Woman and her intolerance to England 

 

 

 

I've installed both apps, seems fine? 

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

I've installed both apps, seems fine? 

 

The answer might be in the order you install the apps. Perhaps the English one has an intolerance for the Scottish one?

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

I've installed both apps, seems fine? 

You can install both but they won't work simultaneously on one phone

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Over hundred people test positive at Napier 

Keep the yoonis open likesy

[manaliveits105]

jeez just watched that Kate Forbes the finance secretary on the Nine - is she on speed ? - another me me  me I would do this I would do that -cheap shots at Rishi and the UK gov but she doesnt have a scooby in reality - all bluster - leave the its all about me stuff to the FM 

[Nucky Thompson]

I've just googled it. You need to turn the Scottish one off when in England and vice versa. A bit nippy.

The app in England lets people scan the QR code in hospitality venues and businesses are legally required to display the codes

 

[The Mighty Thor]

31 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Good. Sounds I might not have to wait a decade.

Why do.people get so riled about Sweden?

No idea. You tell me. You replied to my post.

I could give zero ***** about what Sweden do. Its as relevant as what the Martians do.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

jeez just watched that Kate Forbes the finance secretary on the Nine - is she on speed ? - another me me  me I would do this I would do that -cheap shots at Rishi and the UK gov but she doesnt have a scooby in reality - all bluster - leave the its all about me stuff to the FM 

I was thinking the same when I saw her earlier.

Another big mouthed Scottish government blowhard 

[Gards]

34 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Why does Scotland need to have a different tracing app than the rest of the UK?

I have the Scottish one. but I travel to Northumberland every weekend. They are now saying we need the UK app to use their venues.

It won't let me have both Apps on my phone.

 

Sturgeon just wants to be different for the sake of it.

 

 Can't stand that Woman and her intolerance to England 

 

 

Northern Irleland has a different one from the rest of UK as well.  Theirs is based on the Irish one and the Scottish one is based on both.  Much better and more private than the disasterous one England first went for which would store all your info in a central database and was eventually scrapped for the Google/Apple version.

There's a feature (yet to be enabled) which allows you to connect to other tracing apps without having to download them.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

The answer lies in the shambles the UK gov made of the first attempt at an App, which was UK wide supported. 

The teething problems didn't seen to bother the other devolved nations. 

 

[The Internet]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I've just googled it. You need to turn the Scottish one off when in England and vice versa. A bit nippy.

The app in England lets people scan the QR code in hospitality venues and businesses are legally required to display the codes

 

 

Yeah I feel like that should be more of a focus in the press releases about these apps. Loads of folk just aren't going to do that  I managed to find a single quote in the itv article about it and a wee bit in the BBC article. It's the same for the Northern Ireland one apparently. 

[Gards]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The teething problems didn't seen to bother the other devolved nations. 

 

UK government initially went for a completely different type of app (built inhouse and not using the Apple/Google APIs).  Pissed a bunch of money against the wall on that one and eventually went for the same system Ireland, N. Ireland and Scotland went for.

[Nucky Thompson]

3 minutes ago, Gards said:

Northern Irleland has a different one from the rest of UK as well.  Theirs is based on the Irish one and the Scottish one is based on both.  Much better and more private than the disasterous one England first went for which would store all your info in a central database and was eventually scrapped for the Google/Apple version.

There's a feature (yet to be enabled) which allows you to connect to other tracing apps without having to download them.

I didn't realise NI had a different one. Makes sense to have the same one as the republic I suppose

[redjambo]

39 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Why does Scotland need to have a different tracing app than the rest of the UK?

I have the Scottish one. but I travel to Northumberland every weekend. They are now saying we need the UK app to use their venues.

It won't let me have both Apps on my phone.

 

Sturgeon just wants to be different for the sake of it.

 

 Can't stand that Woman and her intolerance to England 

 

The answer lies here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8718289/Protect-Scotland-contact-tracing-app-launched-Nicola-Sturgeon.html

 

The UK government went a long way down a dead-end street and were simply faffing around. Nicola looked at the NI app, thought "that's working well, we need an app that works that well asap, let's get it out there".

 

I know you hate Nicola, the SNP party, and the Scottish government, Nucky, but the UK government was at fault here big time. Experts were warning them time after time that their app wouldn't work well and had huge privacy concerns, and they just went blithely on ahead.

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The teething problems didn't seen to bother the other devolved nations. 

 

 

Northern Ireland launched their own app on 6th August.

[Don Dan]

Common sense should dictate all the nations of the UK should use the same app. Why we have all gone our different ways confounds me we really are backward at times. The idiots in Westminster even tried to develop their own, how stubbornly stupid were they. They could have an app up and running months ago. They quite possibly will have cost lives like they did when the were late with the initial lockdown. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Boy Daniel

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

 

It’s not the same app as Ireland, it’s built using the same technology. Technology used in several countries around the world but was ignored by UK initially who the U-turned. 

The UK government ignored it.

What a surprise. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by The Real Maroonblood

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Boy Daniel said:

Common sense should dictate all the nations of the UK should us the same app. Why we have all gone our different ways confounds me we really are backward at times. The idiots in Westminster even tried to develop their own, own stubbornly stupid were they. They could have an app up and running months ago. They quite possibly will have cost lives like they did when the were late with the initial lockdown. 

 

100% where the blame lies for this one. I'm glad that Northern Ireland and Scotland realised that was the case and went their own way - it was vital that an app was developed as soon as possible, and the UK government took their eye off the ball in the search for their "own thing".

[Weakened Offender]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Northern Ireland launched their own app on 6th August.

 

Facts like this are meaningless to Nutty. His whole Covid 19 thought process is an anti-SNP one. 

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

The answer lies here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8718289/Protect-Scotland-contact-tracing-app-launched-Nicola-Sturgeon.html

 

The UK government went a long way down a dead-end street and were simply faffing around. Nicola looked at the NI app, thought "that's working well, we need an app that works that well asap, let's get it out there".

 

I know you hate Nicola, the SNP party, and the Scottish government, Nucky, but the UK government was at fault here big time. Experts were warning them time after time that their app wouldn't work well and had huge privacy concerns, and they just went blithely on ahead.

I know Hancock and co were at fault originally, but they all could have come together to get it sorted. 

The Scottish one only launched a fortnight before the England/Wales one.

If they worked simultaneously it would be fine.

 

 

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

100% where the blame lies for this one. I'm glad that Northern Ireland and Scotland realised that was the case and went their own way - it was vital that an app was developed as soon as possible, and the UK government took their eye off the ball in the search for their "own thing".

The spivs had probably invested in it being a success, it’s what they do 😂

Hopefully they got their sticky greedy fingers burnt for once. 

[Victorian]

Wile E Coyote thwarted yet again in the quest to bash the SNP Roadrunner with the giant boulder levered off the cliff.

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Facts like this are meaningless to Nutty. His whole Covid 19 thought process is an anti-SNP one. 

The SNP decisions on Covid are the ones that effect me. At least I can laugh at the shambles Boris the clown is making of it.

You won't hear a bad word said about Nicola. 

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

That’s a handset/ software issue, again not Scottish Government fault. 

Which wouldn't be a problem if we all had the same app.

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The SNP decisions on Covid are the ones that effect me. At least I can laugh at the shambles Boris the clown is making of it.

You won't hear a bad word said about Nicola. 

 

You mean apart from all over the MSM? 

[Weakened Offender]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

Which wouldn't be a problem if we all had the same app.

 

I'm glad we don't, the English yin is shite. 😉

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I know Hancock and co were at fault originally, but they all could have come together to get it sorted. 

The Scottish one only launched a fortnight before the England/Wales one.

If they worked simultaneously it would be fine.

 

 

Would you trust the UK government after the original debacle? I certainly wouldn't. The Scottish government were well ahead with their app - were they just to ditch it and go with the English/Welsh one even though they didn't know when that one would be released?

 

In theory, I agree with you, we should really have one app for the whole UK, but I'm pretty sure that the Scottish Government weren't saying "Let's be different somehow". They had to take tough decisions when the UK government was wandering around in a circle, confused, and a working app was needed asap.

 

Personally, I would have done exactly the same as the Scottish government, except that I would have probably combined resources and development with Northern Ireland, and asked Wales if they wanted to come aboard too.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I'm glad we don't, the English yin is shite. 😉

Aye, it's all about being better than the English, not about coming together to beat the virus.

It's one big dick measuring contest. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 hours ago, Costanza said:

Sorry but can't see the logic or evidence for this assertion.  It's a term actually used within the Medical world to describe the long term impacts of Covid.

Watch this video or even better do some research. It's not a term described to scare people and to say it is, is disingenuous at best.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3489/rr-2

But, again, we are highlighting C**id.  There are plenty links for people who suffer from, disability,  ME, cancer, Parkinson's etc etc. The obsession with this virus, something that has and only ever will afflict a miniscule amount of the population,  is bizarre. Lots of people have bad reactions and long term health issues that are far worse than this respiratory virus.

[Taffin]

What are the apps called? I didn't even know there was ones, I thought they'd just abandoned it. It feels like such a long time since they were mooted.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, SectionFJambo said:

It's a no for me on some of this. The stats don't lie.

 

465 new cases,  124 folk at Glasgow Uni with it (not all necessarily today to be clear), along with outbreaks at other Unis. Sounds to me that a massive chunk of this is coming from the Uni's.  Surely solution might have been not to ram tens of thousands of folk who like the pubs and cross breeding into small spaces.

 

The death tolls at the moment are pretty low. If the death tolls go up massively in the next 7/10 days the new steps will have been justified. If it's not up after that period questions will have to be asked about the science of the new restrictions as ultimately If people can fight it off on the whole then we maybe need to accept the herd immunity route.

look out for the posters on this saying " no wait 4 to 6 weeks " 

[Weakened Offender]

13 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, it's all about being better than the English, not about coming together to beat the virus.

It's one big dick measuring contest. 

 

I think that's a conversation you need to be having with the English Nationalist Party that's currently in Government. They seem awfy keen on doing their own thing and disregarding the rest of the UK. 

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

What are the apps called? I didn't even know there was ones, I thought they'd just abandoned it. It feels like such a long time since they were mooted.

 

Links to download the Scottish one on here: https://protect.scot/

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, weehammy said:

So reassured the ‘progressive’ SNP has eliminated all traces of anti-English sentiment among its supporters.

 

There's a huge difference between disparaging a people and disparaging an app.

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, weehammy said:

So reassured the ‘progressive’ SNP has eliminated all traces of anti-English sentiment among its supporters.

 

Chin up, Snowflake. ❤️

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No idea. You tell me. You replied to my post.

I could give zero ***** about what Sweden do. Its as relevant as what the Martians do.

"Sweden will go down the shitter soon" is what you posted. What about the Martians?

The reason why people get so riled about Sweden since you ask is IMO the possibility that they will show that we have ****ed it up more than they have. At this stage who knows?

Edited September 24, 2020 by Francis Albert

[JudyJudyJudy]

Demonising a group of people is a dangerous step.  As someone else noted students should have been tested when they began their courses.  As others have said isnt it a good thing that its widely transmitted in their halls so they can all get over it without a day and a strict self isolation for the two weeks then get on with their studying and social lives. Its meant to be the time of their lives. Poor students. Don't forget a lot aren't wealthy relying on the bank of mum and dad and have to also have part time jobs to keep afloat so what about them ?   

[Robbofan99]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

"Sweden will go down the shitter soon" is what you posted. What about the Martians?

The reason why people get so riled about Sweden since you ask is IMO the possibility that they will show that we have ****ed it up less than they have. At this stage who knows?

Yes a lot of intellectual and scientific jealousy regarding Sweden's response so they are trying to undermine the country.  

[Robbofan99]

Can someone clear up something for me. I was out earlier and had an " arguments" with a mate regarding the " one households rule". I said that if a person lives on their own they can have another " Household" visit them and vice versa,.  The other " household" can consist of any amount of people from that said household ?