Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Walter Bishop]

4 minutes ago, viva hate said:

I haven't been on hiday for four months. I get your point but teachers are always having to buy things for their classes and it just adds to that list. Do you have to buy equipment to do your job? 

Yes. 

[The Internet]

7 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

You just had a fully paid 4 month holiday, surely you could stretch to buying a few washable masks for £2 or £3 that you can reuse? (Not that you`ll need them!)

 

Shite chat. 

[viva hate]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I'm not sure a mask would be considered PPE, imo anyway. That's a poor show about the hand sanitiser though, especially providing ineffective stuff instead. I doubt it's unique to teachers being short on stuff like that at work though. I was back at my part time job this week and there was no PPE provided beyond the usual to my knowledge, but I wasn't expecting there to be so didn't ask, maybe if I'd requested some they'd have provided it.

Staff were asked and they agreed via the union about what would be provided but it wasn't. 

Im not as worried about it as some staff as I'm relatively young but the disorganisation and contradiction since we went back is infuriating. 

[Taffin]

Just now, viva hate said:

Staff were asked and they agreed via the union about what would be provided but it wasn't. 

Im not as worried about it as some staff as I'm relatively young but the disorganisation and contradiction since we went back is infuriating. 

 

Yeh not doubting it's disorganised or incredibly frustrating. Just not sure beyond gloves/hand sanitizer what can actually be provided as PPE...beyond a respirator and hazmat suit! It's a hectic and chaotic time, it's not unique to the teaching profession.

 

+1 me for buying equipment to do my job... admittedly I don't have to but choose to so I suppose that's different.

[Beni]

21 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Spain has a population of 47 million....

 

The point made in the video I responded to is that there is no correlation between number of cases and the number of deaths. Recent rises in Spanish deaths appears to disprove that. I already posted that the numbers are low compared to March/April.

Do you have a point?

[Back to 2005]

7 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The point made in the video I responded to is that there is no correlation between number of cases and the number of deaths. Recent rises in Spanish deaths appears to disprove that. I already posted that the numbers are low compared to March/April.

Do you have a point?

Was more in response to the original post not your reply. Sorry! 

[AlphonseCapone]

22 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

 

 

 

Comparing any events 100 years a part given how different the world is on so many fronts is a bit folly, whether trying to argue one side or the other. 

[Back to 2005]

21 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Shite chat. 

Factual though.

[Back to 2005]

Teachers are approximately 5 times more likely to die of the flu than covid at the moment according to latest stats but I'm guessing nobody wore PPE in the flu outbreak 2 years ago? 

[viva hate]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh not doubting it's disorganised or incredibly frustrating. Just not sure beyond gloves/hand sanitizer what can actually be provided as PPE...beyond a respirator and hazmat suit! It's a hectic and chaotic time, it's not unique to the teaching profession.

 

+1 me for buying equipment to do my job... admittedly I don't have to but choose to so I suppose that's different.

It's not unique to teaching but thats the area I work and I'll still be making sure those people making decisions are on their toes.That's what I try to instill in the kids. 

[viva hate]

8 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Factual though.

What's factual? 

[doctor jambo]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Yeh not doubting it's disorganised or incredibly frustrating. Just not sure beyond gloves/hand sanitizer what can actually be provided as PPE...beyond a respirator and hazmat suit! It's a hectic and chaotic time, it's not unique to the teaching profession.

 

+1 me for buying equipment to do my job... admittedly I don't have to but choose to so I suppose that's different.

Me too with the +1.

Own petrol, mobile, car, insurance, indemnity, professional subscriptions, equipment and so on- sure they are tax deductable, but that still means I'm paying > half the costs, and when that runs into tens of thousands per annum, its not insubstantial.

So go buy some masks for the cost of a coffee and stop bitching

 

not aimed at Taffin

Edited August 21, 2020 by doctor jambo
error

[westbow]

Box of 50 disposable face masks work out at 40p each.

[graygo]

7 minutes ago, westbow said:

Box of 50 disposable face masks work out at 40p each.

 

B&M sell packs of 10 for £2.50.

[AlphonseCapone]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Edinburgh Council has apparently banned all extra curricular activities. These arseholes are desperate to ban anything they can. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if financial savings were a strong but unspoken factor. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

1 hour ago, Back to 2005 said:

Teachers are approximately 5 times more likely to die of the flu than covid at the moment according to latest stats but I'm guessing nobody wore PPE in the flu outbreak 2 years ago? 

 

What stats?

[westbow]

7 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

B&M sell packs of 10 for £2.50.

But you have to go into a B&M. It's the "so it has come to this" of retail experience.

[westbow]

1 minute ago, LMc said:

 

What stats?

Just the bloody latest that is all!

[Walter Bishop]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Comparing any events 100 years a part given how different the world is on so many fronts is a bit folly, whether trying to argue one side or the other. 

I would agree. Someone should tell New Zealand. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

5 minutes ago, westbow said:

Just the bloody latest that is all!

 

So you're talking shite?

Edited August 21, 2020 by LMc

[Cade]

Eviction ban in England extended to 20th September.

4 more weeks to pack your bags, then.

 

A weak piss in the ocean of homelessness that's coming.

[westbow]

2 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

So you're talking shite?

Usually. But it wasn't me chief.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just now, westbow said:

Usually. But it wasn't me chief.

 

Apologies  

[westbow]

Just now, LMc said:

 

Apologies  

Nae bother 👍

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Eviction ban in England extended to 20th September.

4 more weeks to pack your bags, then.

 

A weak piss in the ocean of homelessness that's coming.

 

It is only delaying the inevitable.

 

If someone is so far in arrears now that they are going to be evicted they probably still will be next month.

[Captain Canada]

3 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

That video hasn't aged well, he referenced the negligible number of people dying in Spain, but hospitalisations are up 700 in the last week, and deaths have gone from 12 to 131. 

From today's Guardian

 

 

Not having a pop at you at all, but that's the problem with such intense media scrutiny on headline figures. 

 

Next week the situation in Spain for example, could be looking so much better. 

 

There are also so many other factors that need to be looked at - again, usually not given any consideration by the mainstream media. 

 

What's the age of people infected?

What pre-existing conditions do they have?

Did they die with Covid or from it? 

Are all hospital admissions being tested like happened in the UK?

Are people contracting the virus in hospital? 

 

Is the PCR test, which according to its inventor, was never designed to be used as a diagnostic test for viruses, picking up active virus or dead fragments which can stay in the system for some time after infection? Or is it picking up traces of another coronavirus such as the common cold? 

 

From what I've read, the PCR test used to detect the virus cannot distinguish between the live virus and dead fragments being shed by a person's immune system. 

 

Opening up societies after a lockdown has of course meant more people all over the world have had exposure to the virus, but what nobody knows for sure is how many of these positive cases are still  infectious or simply highlighting people who've been infected. 

 

I certainly don't have all the answers but the huge reduction in deaths across Europe is a fact. My question would be "Why significantly increase testing now?" 

 

It's almost like they need another way to frighten people.

 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

14 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

Is the PCR test, which according to its inventor, was never designed to be used as a diagnostic test for viruses, picking up active virus or dead fragments which can stay in the system for some time after infection? Or is it picking up traces of another coronavirus such as the common cold? 

 

From what I've read, the PCR test used to detect the virus cannot distinguish between the live virus and dead fragments being shed by a person's immune system. 

 

Have you got a source for this part? I would be interested in reading this.

[Captain Canada]

@LMc

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/it-s-a-mistake-to-think-all-positive-covid-tests-mean-the-same/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

https://bpa-pathology.com/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/

 

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/

 

These are a few I had to hand but there are lots of others. 

 

I think there's a lot more to come out about the figures being inflated for cases, hospital admissions and deaths, and not just in the UK. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Captain Canada

[Weakened Offender]

3 hours ago, viva hate said:

I'm a teacher and if you were able to visit a school just now you'd be shocked. The government have bowed down to parent power and have been playing political games for some time now. Schools needed to go back but not like this, totally unsafe and truly shocking. 

The situation is infuriating me even more now that I'm back at work with no PPE, no cleaning, no real measures and the fact that I still have to wait in a one in one out queue to get milk on the way home. Don't get me started on not being able to see Hearts. 

 

 

My wife is a teacher and thinks her school have got it nailed on. 

[Alex]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Edinburgh Council has apparently banned all extra curricular activities. These arseholes are desperate to ban anything they can. 

 

Not doubting you, but where have you heard that from? My other half does PSA in the mornings (started back at the start of term) , then drumming in the afternoons and hasn't had any info/update on the afternoon sessions.

 

[Brighton Jambo]

23 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Retired now after close to 40 years in Education but am reassured to learn that teachers are still engaging in their favourite pastime...........................MOANING!
🤦🏻😠

It is my absolute number one frustration.  My wife was teacher for years and left the profession as the atmosphere was toxic - all they ever did was moan.   Both my in laws were teachers and the moaning and whining was unbearable.  
 

I recognise that standing in front of a class of kids isn’t easy but is not like national service no one is forced to do it, considering the money relative to the weeks of the year worked It drove me mad.

 

In relation to Covid I have to buy hand sanitizer for work and my own face masks, it doesn’t come to more than a tenner a month.  Just get on with teaching kids who so so desperately need that routine and environment after all this disruption and STOP moaning.  
 

I am not aiming this specifically at the poster above I am sure he/she is a good egg.  More that I am so so so sick of teachers complaining about absolutely everything all the time.

 

Sorry, rant over, and breath.  

[Beni]

48 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

 

Not having a pop at you at all, but that's the problem with such intense media scrutiny on headline figures. 

 

Next week the situation in Spain for example, could be looking so much better. 

 

There are also so many other factors that need to be looked at - again, usually not given any consideration by the mainstream media. 

 

What's the age of people infected?

What pre-existing conditions do they have?

Did they die with Covid or from it? 

Are all hospital admissions being tested like happened in the UK?

Are people contracting the virus in hospital? 

 

Is the PCR test, which according to its inventor, was never designed to be used as a diagnostic test for viruses, picking up active virus or dead fragments which can stay in the system for some time after infection? Or is it picking up traces of another coronavirus such as the common cold? 

 

From what I've read, the PCR test used to detect the virus cannot distinguish between the live virus and dead fragments being shed by a person's immune system. 

 

Opening up societies after a lockdown has of course meant more people all over the world have had exposure to the virus, but what nobody knows for sure is how many of these positive cases are still  infectious or simply highlighting people who've been infected. 

 

I certainly don't have all the answers but the huge reduction in deaths across Europe is a fact. My question would be "Why significantly increase testing now?" 

 

It's almost like they need another way to frighten people.

 

 

 

In the video Ivor Cummins says in Spain "the deaths are gone". There have been 113 deaths in the past week, that doesn't fit with his argument imo.

I'm not clued up on how accurate the PCR test is, but the inventor didn't say what you've attributed to him according to the link below, although it backs up what you've said about the test's limitations.

 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24420X

[Dennis Reynolds]

20 minutes ago, Captain Canada said:

@LMc

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/it-s-a-mistake-to-think-all-positive-covid-tests-mean-the-same/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

https://bpa-pathology.com/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/

 

These are a couple I had to hand but there are lots of others. 

 

I think there's a lot more to come out about the figures being inflated for cases, hospital admissions and deaths, and not just in the UK. 

 

 

Thanks Captain.

 

Enjoyedthe first link as it's an area I used to work in quite closely. Not as hands on anymore thankfully! Generally PCR testing is qualitative but I do know that qualitative testing is being rolled out. Hopefully the difference in viral load will be able to be a bit more looked into as I full believe it to have a big effect.

 

The second link, not so much. Painting PCR as a manufacturing tool rather than diagnostic is absurd. I then followed the link where it apparently talks about how Kary Mullis, the inventor of PCR, says it wasn't meant for viruses. It doesn't. Essentially it uses his views that HIV doesn't cause AIDS to mean, somehow, that PCR can't pick up viruses. Which again is pretty silly.

[Captain Sausage]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Eviction ban in England extended to 20th September.

4 more weeks to pack your bags, then.

 

A weak piss in the ocean of homelessness that's coming.

You criticised their inaction. 
 

You’re criticising the 4 week deferral. 
 

So what would your answer be?

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I have quite a few family members and acquittances who are teachers/educators. Whilst, it’s a lazy generalisation, they are incredibly adept at moaning, usually about stuff that everyone else has to put up with. 
 

Nothing triggers a teacher like telling them they don’t have the hardest job or anything close to in the world. 
 

I do think a large part of its down to the environment and they have never really been out an educational setting, in many cases.  
 

Those who can do those who can’t teach🙈

 

 

That in bold is bang on. They think corporate life is all laptops off at 5pm, fancy conferences and latte's. My parents were both teachers and they've literally no idea what other jobs are like. Fortunately they weren't moaners and recognised how good they had it and my mum especially was a total grafter who put everything into and I never once heard her moan about work...in return she did well out of the profession.

 

Almost everything teachers moan about (as you say a generalisation) is exactly the same, or worse for everyone else but everyone else just gets on with it. "Yeh but we don't finish when we are supposed to and we have to take work home with us at evenings and weekend"...welcome to nearly every job in the world.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Taffin

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Comparing any events 100 years a part given how different the world is on so many fronts is a bit folly, whether trying to argue one side or the other. 

 

Even 50 years ago and the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of the late '60's, the World has changed massively since then.

[Cade]

5 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

You criticised their inaction. 
 

You’re criticising the 4 week deferral. 
 

So what would your answer be?

A much longer extension and for a special body to be set up to deal with the avalanche of looming evictions, looking at them all on a case by case basis.

People being evicted because of government rules on not being at work? That can't be fair or just.

Nobody has put any thought into any of the fallout from lockdown.

 

Still no movement on the bailiffs ban that runs out on sunday.

 

And furlough runs out soon too.

 

People have no idea what's coming.

[Brighton Jambo]

22 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Glad you got it out of your system mate. I have no wish to disparage the many dedicated and valued colleagues I was fortunate to work with but, when out boozing with fellow teacher pals, we often had a good laugh at the EIS assertion that we all spent hours each night marking and weeks during summers ‘preparing‘.

I just read your reply to my wife and she laughed out loud as that was absolutely her view as well!  

[viva hate]

45 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

My wife is a teacher and thinks her school have got it nailed on. 

Must have a great headteacher and a huge amount of space then. 

[Captain Canada]

17 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

In the video Ivor Cummins says in Spain "the deaths are gone". There have been 113 deaths in the past week, that doesn't fit with his argument imo.

I'm not clued up on how accurate the PCR test is, but the inventor didn't say what you've attributed to him according to the link below, although it backs up what you've said about the test's limitations.

 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24420X

 

16 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

 

Thanks Captain.

 

Enjoyedthe first link as it's an area I used to work in quite closely. Not as hands on anymore thankfully! Generally PCR testing is qualitative but I do know that qualitative testing is being rolled out. Hopefully the difference in viral load will be able to be a bit more looked into as I full believe it to have a big effect.

 

The second link, not so much. Painting PCR as a manufacturing tool rather than diagnostic is absurd. I then followed the link where it apparently talks about how Kary Mullis, the inventor of PCR, says it wasn't meant for viruses. It doesn't. Essentially it uses his views that HIV doesn't cause AIDS to mean, somehow, that PCR can't pick up viruses. Which again is pretty silly.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's certainly not my area of expertise but I have read a lot in the past few months as I don't like being told what to do when there's next to no published evidence coming from governments and lots of confusing messages.

[Weakened Offender]

Just now, viva hate said:

Must have a great headteacher and a huge amount of space then. 

 

He's really good, by all accounts. It's also an old 3 storey building with loads of space and a very straightforward one-way system, according to the missus. 

[viva hate]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

He's really good, by all accounts. It's also an old 3 storey building with loads of space and a very straightforward one-way system, according to the missus. 

That makes sense, aot of schools are oversubscribed. My school was originally built for 850 but the current role is 1300. 

[Captain Canada]

22 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

In the video Ivor Cummins says in Spain "the deaths are gone". There have been 113 deaths in the past week, that doesn't fit with his argument imo.

I'm not clued up on how accurate the PCR test is, but the inventor didn't say what you've attributed to him according to the link below, although it backs up what you've said about the test's limitations.

 

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24420X

 

Cheers for replying. I've seen lots of sites attributing that information to the inventor and some 'fact checking' sites debunking it. I'm wary of fact checkers given the massive media organisations that own them. 

 

It's certainly not as easy as it should be to find out the truth online! 

 

It does seem to be a limited test for sure which is worrying in lots of respects given the world's reliance on them and increased numbers of them being carried out in recent weeks. 

[Captain Sausage]

Just now, Cade said:

A much longer extension and for a special body to be set up to deal with the avalanche of looming evictions, looking at them all on a case by case basis.

People being evicted because of government rules on not being at work? That can't be fair or just.

Nobody has put any thought into any of the fallout from lockdown.

 

Still no movement on the bailiffs ban that runs out on sunday.

 

And furlough runs out soon too.

 

People have no idea what's coming.

Im out of the country so had rented my house out. 
 

If I’m made redundant, sent home and my tenants are unable to pay any rent, I’d be stuck paying a mortgage (their rent covers about 60% of my mortgage payments) and a rent for my family - all without an income. 
 

Is that fair or just?

[Weakened Offender]

5 minutes ago, viva hate said:

That makes sense, aot of schools are oversubscribed. My school was originally built for 850 but the current role is 1300. 

 

That's not great. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, viva hate said:

I'm a teacher and if you were able to visit a school just now you'd be shocked. The government have bowed down to parent power and have been playing political games for some time now. Schools needed to go back but not like this, totally unsafe and truly shocking. 

The situation is infuriating me even more now that I'm back at work with no PPE, no cleaning, no real measures and the fact that I still have to wait in a one in one out queue to get milk on the way home. Don't get me started on not being able to see Hearts. 

 

Maybe you should be thinking of the bigger picture. I.e the pupils or " students" as they are called now.  Schools can be a " safe environment" for many kids whose home environment can be " chaotic" to say the least.  In my previous line of work , those poor children only had school as their " protective factor" to ensure their basic needs ( food) were being met and not just educational.  I have seen children thrive in education despite a horrendous family life ( alcohol , drugs . domestic abuse). I really felt for those kids during the lockdown who were stuck in this situation and were at risk emotionally and physically at times.  This is why schools being opened again is Vital.   Yes some staff can be whingers but most are decent apart from  some  Head teachers who can be real pains in the neck and run the schools like its their little empire :0 I dread to think if all schools were locked down again. 

[Cade]

14 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Im out of the country so had rented my house out. 
 

If I’m made redundant, sent home and my tenants are unable to pay any rent, I’d be stuck paying a mortgage (their rent covers about 60% of my mortgage payments) and a rent for my family - all without an income. 
 

Is that fair or just?

won't somebody think of the landlord's yield?

 

 

Landlords were already given a mortgage holiday during lockdown, which should also be extended until a sensible solution is found

Edited August 21, 2020 by Cade

[ri Alban]

29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Even 50 years ago and the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of the late '60's, the World has changed massively since then.

Too easy to travel now. 

[Taffin]

19 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Im out of the country so had rented my house out. 
 

If I’m made redundant, sent home and my tenants are unable to pay any rent, I’d be stuck paying a mortgage (their rent covers about 60% of my mortgage payments) and a rent for my family - all without an income. 
 

Is that fair or just?

 

Nobody else took the mortgage out but you, so it's your responsibility to pay it. So yes, I'd say it's fair and just. It's a tough situation but you're never guaranteed rent as a landlord and it's the gamble you take.

[viva hate]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Maybe you should be thinking of the bigger picture. I.e the pupils or " students" as they are called now.  Schools can be a " safe environment" for many kids whose home environment can be " chaotic" to say the least.  In my previous line of work , those poor children only had school as their " protective factor" to ensure their basic needs ( food) were being met and not just educational.  I have seen children thrive in education despite a horrendous family life ( alcohol , drugs . domestic abuse). I really felt for those kids during the lockdown who were stuck in this situation and were at risk emotionally and physically at times.  This is why schools being opened again is Vital.   Yes some staff can be whingers but most are decent apart from  some  Head teachers who can be real pains in the neck and run the schools like its their little empire :0 I dread to think if all schools were locked down again. 

 

15 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Maybe you should be thinking of the bigger picture. I.e the pupils or " students" as they are called now.  Schools can be a " safe environment" for many kids whose home environment can be " chaotic" to say the least.  In my previous line of work , those poor children only had school as their " protective factor" to ensure their basic needs ( food) were being met and not just educational.  I have seen children thrive in education despite a horrendous family life ( alcohol , drugs . domestic abuse). I really felt for those kids during the lockdown who were stuck in this situation and were at risk emotionally and physically at times.  This is why schools being opened again is Vital.   Yes some staff can be whingers but most are decent apart from  some  Head teachers who can be real pains in the neck and run the schools like its their little empire :0 I dread to think if all schools were locked down again. 

What makes you think I'm not thinking of the bigger picture. I wanted schools to go back because of the very reasons you state and I'm happy to be back helping the students. 

During lockdown we volunteered to deliver free school meals, jotters and laptops to students across our authority so schools did all they could. Every family also had a phone call once a week to see if they needed help or support. 

I'm certainly not work shy but I just expected most of the risk assessments to be carried out before my return. 

The kids are never the problem it's the bureaucracy