Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[jack D and coke]

Just now, jonesy said:

My thoughts exactly, but much more eloquently put!

I’m not known to be eloquent after 4 Henry Westons😂😋

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

If the government opens up things like restaurants and bars what have they done wrong though?
I agree the lockdown won’t come from the over 50’s but what are you getting at there? We all felt bullet proof when young. 
People need to get their head round the fact that this isn’t going away and if you don’t start getting on with it your life as you’ve known is completely over. Hiding behind the sofa hoping it will go away isn’t helping either. It’s simply waiting for us to come out again and it’s round in circles we go. 
Constant lockdowns are going to crush the country and people’s livelihoods. 
I fear that much more that a virus. 

You're right, this isn't going away any time soon and like you I'd really to keep working and earning a living, particularly after having 3 months on furlough. 

Going to the pub is fine. Going for food is fine. If you follow the rules on social distancing and supplying contact tracing details etc. So again the shit decision making of the less cerebral, you know the ones who can decide for themselves likesy, who ram the pubs whilst standing on top of each other, put my ability to continue to work and earn a living at risk, while I follow the rules.

So forgive me if I'm not very tolerant of arseholery. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

I think people need to realise that the two extremes cannot be allowed to occur.    We can't have a full,  long term lockdown.   We can't abandon the efforts to suppress the rates of infection.    It's going to have to be something,  somewhere in between.   It's never going to be easy to know what and where.

Mate I agree with you but this can’t go on. The amount of job losses after another few months of this will be catastrophic. I’ve no idea what age you are but I was a youth of the 80’s. We didn’t have internet and all that shite. Imagine trying to keep everyone in back then? This simply wouldn’t have happened. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're right, this isn't going away any time soon and like you I'd really to keep working and earning a living, particularly after having 3 months on furlough. 

Going to the pub is fine. Going for food is fine. If you follow the rules on social distancing and supplying contact tracing details etc. So again the shit decision making of the less cerebral, you know the ones who can decide for themselves likesy, who ram the pubs whilst standing on top of each other, put my ability to continue to work and earn a living at risk, while I follow the rules.

So forgive me if I'm not very tolerant of arseholery. 

You’d really like to keep working but clearly that industry is totally unaffected by lockdowns? That’s not a dig btw. This is verging on an extinction event for thousands of businesses. We must get back to normal as much as possible. 
Lockdowns are NOT going to work imo. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Some good points. I’m not going to argue with them for the sake of doing so. The moral right to make choices that I believe will have no negative impact on others (such as wearing or not wearing a mask and travelling more than five miles) is very important to me, and what I believe it takes to be part of a grown up society.
 

This decision making responsibility is increasingly being removed and replaced with a ‘we can’t trust some so we can’t trust any’ and ‘it’s for your own good’ approach. That sets the alarm bells ringing. 

 

I agree that there are certain things that provide such a low risk of consequence that they become irrelevant.    Of course.   People should be trusted to be able to discriminate to some extent.    Conversely,   there are things that people are told to observe that they probably should observe without protest.

 

The trouble will always be as to where to draw the line.   Some people will be very good at it.   Some seem determined to actively undermine the government's pleadings.    

 

"We can't trust some so we can't trust any".    Sadly this is a real concept.    Sometimes you are limited to playing to the lowest common denominator.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

 

Even the very fact that so much discourse and debate is published online is dangerous - as the hunting down of James’ previous posts on this thread proved the other day. It’s great that we have evidence of old opinions, but not when they are used to reject the idea that someone can change their stance.

 

 

Sorry for deleting the rest of your post but wanted to say that James wasn't "hunted" because of what he posted but he was (rightly) pulled up for calling some folk pantwetters just because they weren't at the same stage in their thinking as him. A wee bit humility considering where he was a short time ago would have been better placed.

[jack D and coke]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Sorry for deleting the rest of your post but wanted to say that James wasn't "hunted" because of what he posted but he was (rightly) pulled up for calling some folk pantwetters just because they weren't at the same stage in their thinking as him. A wee bit humility considering where he was a short time ago would have been better placed.

That’s fair👍🏼

[Dawnrazor]

45 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Lockdown in Preston  and now Lockdown in counties in Ireland. 

Blackburn, Preston, Leeds, it's getting closer to me every day.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

You’d really like to keep working but clearly that industry is totally unaffected by lockdowns? That’s not a dig btw. This is verging on an extinction event for thousands of businesses. We must get back to normal as much as possible. 
Lockdowns are NOT going to work imo. 

I'm not. I work in the supply chain to thr construction industry. Its very much affected by lockdown.

Lockdowns are avoidable by everyone playing along with the very simple and clear guidance. 

Where it falls down is generally with people with no skin in the game. The ones who live in their ma's back bedroom where a job loss has no impact on them so cramming 10 deep in the boozer is top bantz. 

Meanwhile poor ***** like you and I get laid off when we're inevitably locked down due to selfish attitudes. 

We get back to 'normal' by playing the game, suppressing the virus and keeping the fragile balance we just now. 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Mate I agree with you but this can’t go on. The amount of job losses after another few months of this will be catastrophic. I’ve no idea what age you are but I was a youth of the 80’s. We didn’t have internet and all that shite. Imagine trying to keep everyone in back then? This simply wouldn’t have happened. 

 

At the moment I think the governments are still trying to find their feet on this phase.    Still trying to see the right balance,  range,  mix of decisions.   It's a brand new problem to deal with.

 

There are particular businesses and jobs that are highly affected by lockdown measures.    I have a lot of sympathy for these people.   

[JudyJudyJudy]

👌

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2,288 new cases in France over the last 24 hrs, that's almost 700 up from the day before, wouldn't be shocked if France is the next country that Brits will need to quarantine for 14 days.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Perhaps the wrong choice of word (thank god I've never admitted that I teach and examine English!)  

 

I don’t like the way that people are simply mocked for past postings on social media. Not everyone did, to be fair, but some of the ‘you said this so now you cannot say this’ style of posts (as also seen when old Tweets and Facebook posts are dredged up without right to reply) are akin to lighting the old torches and grabbing your nearest pitchfork!

 

He made the choice to denounce the SG's Grampian lockdown as "sickening".   He made the choice to call people pant wetters,  drama queens,  etc".    He is not an innocent bystander.    He should take whatever responses he gets without bleating.     

 

Personally,   I think the guy's a bit snidey.   He's not immune to getting a bit of stick back.

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

At the moment I think the governments are still trying to find their feet on this phase.    Still trying to see the right balance,  range,  mix of decisions.   It's a brand new problem to deal with.

 

There are particular businesses and jobs that are highly affected by lockdown measures.    I have a lot of sympathy for these people.   

I don’t think they have a clue what they’re doing to be perfectly honest. Even the countries who think they have this under control. It’s out of control everywhere else. 
I feel for anyone who has a business in the hospitality sector. 
They’re screwed. 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

 

That is, unless they are under five, in which case they can do anything they like. 

And then only if they prefer to make the decisions for themselves. 😉

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t think they have a clue what they’re doing to be perfectly honest. Even the countries who think they have this under control. It’s out of control everywhere else. 
I feel for anyone who has a business in the hospitality sector. 
They’re screwed. 

 

 

I agree.   I think the nature of complexity and alteration of things is a real indicator of that.    They simply do not know what to do.   Yet.

[graygo]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Perhaps the wrong choice of word (thank god I've never admitted that I teach and examine English!)  

 

I don’t like the way that people are simply mocked for past postings on social media. Not everyone did, to be fair, but some of the ‘you said this so now you cannot say this’ style of posts (as also seen when old Tweets and Facebook posts are dredged up without right to reply) are akin to lighting the old torches and grabbing your nearest pitchfork!

 

I've no problem with him changing his views, they're actually more in line with mine now but I wouldn't have called him a "pantwetter" a few weeks/months ago.

 

@JamesM48 It's no big deal tbf.

[Irufushi]

With each passing day I care less and less about what’s going on, I’ll be honest I don’t even know what the rules are now, I have also barely followed what rules I did know about at the start. 
 

wrong attitude I know but that’s who I am. 
 

 

[Victorian]

A clear,  detailed,  well financed,  long term thinking plan for the hospitality sector would be a start.    Targeted support of businesses and employees.    A really clear,  careful,  regimented framework of rules of operation.    These businesses need to be protected.   But it's in this sector where the infection transmission will continue to present problems.     

 

A huge effort to form a good plan and stick rigidly to it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

38 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I've no problem with him changing his views, they're actually more in line with mine now but I wouldn't have called him a "pantwetter" a few weeks/months ago.

 

@JamesM48 It's no big deal tbf.

👍

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Sorry for deleting the rest of your post but wanted to say that James wasn't "hunted" because of what he posted but he was (rightly) pulled up for calling some folk pantwetters just because they weren't at the same stage in their thinking as him. A wee bit humility considering where he was a short time ago would have been better placed.

Exactly but he still wants to confront anyone who doesn't share his turnaround rather than seeing why they are still being cautious about the situation as it stands. 

[Irufushi]

23 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I remember reading your posts from before. Hope you’re doing okay. Do whatever you need to to look after your family. 

I’m doing fine pal👍

[jack D and coke]

57 minutes ago, Victorian said:

A clear,  detailed,  well financed,  long term thinking plan for the hospitality sector would be a start.    Targeted support of businesses and employees.    A really clear,  careful,  regimented framework of rules of operation.    These businesses need to be protected.   But it's in this sector where the infection transmission will continue to present problems.     

 

A huge effort to form a good plan and stick rigidly to it.

Agreed and all sounds great. 
Imagine trying to come up with the plan though? One that wouldn’t have tossers from one political persuasion or the other throwing shite at you the whole time too. 

[vegas-voss]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

2,288 new cases in France over the last 24 hrs, that's almost 700 up from the day before, wouldn't be shocked if France is the next country that Brits will need to quarantine for 14 days.

That's far more cases than Spain is it not ?

[vegas-voss]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Agreed and all sounds great. 
Imagine trying to come up with the plan though? One that wouldn’t have tossers from one political persuasion or the other throwing shite at you the whole time too. 

Dammed I tell you dammed they can't win this thread shows that.

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Dammed I tell you dammed they can't win this thread shows that.

It’s bubbling under the whole time innit. 
****ing pathetic mate. 

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

I remember reading your posts from before. Hope you’re doing okay. Do whatever you need to to look after your family. 

 

And to hell with everyone else's family?

 

 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Personally I think he’s doing it right but getting stick for it. He’s admitted he was a bit over anxious initially. All good imo Dave👍🏼

No Jack, he's not. He's like one of those ex smokers who tut tut or roll their eyes at smokers. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

No Jack, he's not. He's like one of those ex smokers who tut tut or roll their eyes at smokers. 

He’s cool aussieh. I like people who can change their mind after a bit of thought. Your post yesterday was out of order btw. 
He’s alright👍🏼

[ri Alban]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

He’s cool aussieh. I like people who can change their mind after a bit of thought. Your post yesterday was out of order btw. 
He’s alright👍🏼

He'll be back to bleaching and full body armer, soon enough. And I can change my mind anaw. I wanted it gone, now I want it back, with a vengeance. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, ri Alban said:

He'll be back to bleaching and full body armer, soon enough. And I can change my mind anaw. I wanted it gone, now I want it back, with a vengeance. 

You want it back??? Cmon son

[jack D and coke]

Enough cider Aussieh  

9 westons I think for me noo. Still in my working gear. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by jack D and coke

[JudyJudyJudy]

54 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

He’s cool aussieh. I like people who can change their mind after a bit of thought. Your post yesterday was out of order btw. 
He’s alright👍🏼

👍

[Jambo 4 Ever]

12 hours ago, Irufushi said:

With each passing day I care less and less about what’s going on, I’ll be honest I don’t even know what the rules are now, I have also barely followed what rules I did know about at the start. 
 

wrong attitude I know but that’s who I am. 
 

 

Not good mate 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Not good mate 

Who gets up at 8 in the morning to do a bit of trolling? The nick of you man!

[Irufushi]

17 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Not good mate 

Sorry mate 😂

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Irufushi said:

Sorry mate 😂

You twit!

[Irufushi]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

You twit!

Cut me deep there ☹️

[Francis Albert]

According to the Telegraph "Lockdown killed two people for every three who died of coronavirus by the beginning of May , government figures suggest". An estimated 16,000 people died through missed medical care by May 1st (including 6000 who did not attend A&E because of fear a of catching Covid 19 and perceptions brought about by the "Stay Home, Protect the NHS message")  while coronavirus killed 25,000 in the same period. A further 26,000 could die by next March because of restrictions on health care.

 

Two conclusions I draw are that simply counting Coronavirus deaths (even if counted accurately which they are not) is only part of the story, and the cure in the form of Lockdown is likely to be worse than the disease, even without taking account of the huge economic damage that Lockdown has done and the consequences of that . 

 

[graygo]

Scottish numbers: 8 August 2020

• 60 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.3% of newly tested individuals.
• 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive.
• 3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19.
• 261 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
• 14,637 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I hadn't realised CoVid deaths were worked out differently in Scotland compared to England. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, graygo said:

Scottish numbers: 8 August 2020

• 60 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 1.3% of newly tested individuals.
• 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive.
• 3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19.
• 261 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19.
• 14,637 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

 

From todays Telegraph.

 

This week’s NRS figures, for example, showed that there were in fact 34 Covid deaths in Scotland over the four weeks to August 2, compared to the three recorded under Sturgeon’s more commonly cited measure.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

What’s the differences?

 

From a DT article.

 

"However, unlike in England where anyone who has tested positive and subsequently dies is counted as a Covid-19 death, whatever the cause, in Scotland it is only counted if death came within 28 days of their first positive Covid test". 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/08/nicola-sturgeon-has-secretly-massaged-scotlands-coronavirus/

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Thanks. I can’t get past pay wall but assume the quote is pretty much what need. 
 

I’d actually think I heard it but it does make comparisons harder. I’m not particulary fan of using excess deaths because I think a large chunk of those are down to the Consequences of the long down strategy. Albeit, I suppose longer term it probably will point to whose strategy was best. 

 

I have to say the English system looks a bit stupid. Someone recovers from Covid, gets knocked down by a car is then counted as a COVID death. Doesn’t seem right to me, 

 

I completely agree with you last sentence. As for whose strategy, it's the same one that's come out of the daily cabinet office briefings (COBRA) as she's not deviated from them apart from the odd unsubtle name changes. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Seymour M Hersh

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

From todays Telegraph.

 

This week’s NRS figures, for example, showed that there were in fact 34 Covid deaths in Scotland over the four weeks to August 2, compared to the three recorded under Sturgeon’s more commonly cited measure.

 

Quite rightly in my opinion the Scottish government only count deaths where a positive result has been recorded.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

From a DT article.

 

"However, unlike in England where anyone who has tested positive and subsequently dies is counted as a Covid-19 death, whatever the cause, in Scotland it is only counted if death came within 28 days of their first positive Covid test". 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/08/nicola-sturgeon-has-secretly-massaged-scotlands-coronavirus/

 

 

Try the other way about. Scotland counts every death with covid is mentioned. 4100, 2500 is when they have tested positive. 

Tested positive deaths

42000 England 

2500 Scotland 

 

 

Mentioned on death certificate 

(The mibbe aye, mibbe Naw) 

60000+ England

4000+ Scotland

[DETTY29]

30 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Quite rightly in my opinion the Scottish government only count deaths where a positive result has been recorded.

Which is the WHO standard?

[Seymour M Hersh]

34 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Quite rightly in my opinion the Scottish government only count deaths where a positive result has been recorded.

 

Whether it was the cause of death or not? 

[ri Alban]

49 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Thanks. I can’t get past pay wall but assume the quote is pretty much what need. 
 

I’d actually think I heard it but it does make comparisons harder. I’m not particulary fan of using excess deaths because I think a large chunk of those are down to the Consequences of the long down strategy. Albeit, I suppose longer term it probably will point to whose strategy was best. 

 

I have to say the English system looks a bit stupid. Someone recovers from Covid, gets knocked down by a car is then counted as a COVID death. Doesn’t seem right to me, 

A bit like the drugs deaths in Scotland. Smoke a joint and then get hit with a bus on a zebra crossing. It's a drug death in Scotland, while in England it's road traffic accident. 

A bit weird. 

 

 

As for covid. If the consequences of have covid brings on a heart attack months later. It's a heart attack through having covid. I'd count it as covid related. 

[ri Alban]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Whether it was the cause of death or not? 

GPS seem to be taking the easy option on this, up and down this set of islands. Disgraceful!