Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Francis Albert]

16 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

If true, this is the type of stuff that should spark bloody revolution.

Or at least some serious prosecutions, dismissals and imprisonment.

 

If true and proven. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Francis Albert

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

£252m to Ayanda Capital, registered in Mauritius for tax purposes. PPE not delivered
£186m to Uniserve. PPE not delivered
£116m to P14 Medical Supplies, with assets of just £145. PPE not delivered
£108m to PestFix, with just 16 employees. PPE not delivered
£107m to Clandeboye Agencies, a sweet wholesaler. Yes, a sweet wholesaler. PPE not delivered.
£40m to Medicine Box Ltd, with assets of just £6000. PPE not delivered.
£48m to Initia Ventures Ltd, which registered itself as “dormant” in March. PPE not delivered.
£28m to Monarch Acoustics, which makes shop furniture. PPE not delivered
£25m to Luxe Lifestyle, which has no employees, no assets, and no turnover. PPE not delivered
£18m to Aventis Solutions, which has total assets of £332. Not a typo, £332. PPE not delivered
£10m to Medco Solutions, incorporated just 3 days after lockdown, with share capital of (not a typo) £2. PPE not delivered
In all, approx £1bn to inexplicable suppliers for PPE that hasn’t been delivered

 

All contracts awarded without any kind of tendering or legal process due to the emergency powers the government handed itself to deal with covid-19.

This is a shocking display of robbery.

Many of these companies are shells and owned by advisers to various government ministers.

Blatant theft of public funds.

 

Absolute scandal.

 

First one is not quite true though, they delivered part order of face masks which were rejected as not suitable for the NHS. Elastic instead of fabric fastenings.

 

ps.owner of Ayanda Capital is also an advisor to the government.

Edited August 7, 2020 by graygo

[Cade]

52 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

That is dynamite. Where are you getting it from?

Former Speaker of the House, John Bercow's social media.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

Former Speaker of the House, John Bercow's social media.

 

 

Mmmmm. Not exactly a truly disinterested source. 

 

The sums involved are small in the grand scheme of the Covi19 epidemic and the response to it.

 

It seems a wildly scatterbox and corrupt approach to the PPE shortage deserving of criminal prosecution and dismissals, including perhaps of the Government. But I'd just like see what successes if any there were in securing PPE.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Francis Albert

[GinRummy]

11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Mmmmm. Not exactly a truly disinterested source. 

 

The sums involved are small in the grand scheme of the Covi19 epidemic and the response to it.

 

It seems a wildly scatterbox and corrupt approach to the PPE shortage deserving of criminal prosecution and dismissals, including perhaps of the Government. But I'd just like see what successes if any there were in securing PPE.

The scale involved is relevant but surely things should be micromanaged efficiently down the line. It’s a lot of cash to spunk on nothing. 

[Walter Bishop]

Tide is definitely turning within the media...Sky`s Ed Conway having a sly dig at his employers here maybe?

 

 

 

[XB52]

6 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Apparently Joe Fitzpatrick said it would be fine.

Is that the Joe Fitzpatrick that told them to call the game off??

[Governor Tarkin]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Or at least some serious prosecutions, dismissals and imprisonment.

 

If true and proven. 

 

I know, I just love a bit of hyperbole on a Friday. 👍

[Governor Tarkin]

11 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

It’s a lot of cash to spunk on nothing. 

 

It would dig me out of a hole come the end of October, Gin.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

I get your point. 
 

However, much like the ‘lockdown’, there’s very little detail in terms of when these encroachments on people’s lives will stop. 

How long is a piece of string? They will come and go until a vaccine or other ways of treating the virus are found I suppose. We will just have to enjoy the freedoms we have as best we can and not do anything that risks catching or spreading the virus unknown to ourselves. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It would dig me out of a hole come the end of October, Gin.

You’re work coming to an end mate?

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Tide is definitely turning within the media...Sky`s Ed Conway having a sly dig at his employers here maybe?

 

 

 

I was actually just about to post a link of that article. Yet more positive data and ICU survival rates approaching the same rate as typical pneumonia. Thankfully, the majority of people are going about their normal business as much as possible and that can only be good for the economy.  I was in Costa earlier and there was a constant stream of customers both sit-in and take away. Other cafes, restaurants and pubs were busy too.

 

Those experts who make baseless apocalyptic predictions have to be accountable for their actions as they affect the economic health of the nation, people's livelihoods and, ultimately, the very sources that fund the NHS. New pronouncements from scientists have to be based on facts rather than the "if your auntie had baws" type modelling that they've been so wildly inaccurate with thus far. 

[OmiyaHearts]

Friend who works with scotrail has told me they're expecting the trains to be asked to stop early, as before. There was a meeting with scotgov and his bosses today. 

 

A few rumours on whatsapp that pubs will be closed again. Although all of this could just be BS.

 

Although ScotGov still doing all they can to make hospitality workers jobs as difficult as possible. Customers now need to give contact details even for a takeaway coffee now, as well queues being 'discouraged' , however that's supposed to work. Face shields also not enough either, proper masks need to we worn.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Come on, it is just to get us through this period. If anyone is so desperate to go to a pub then a bit of planning is all it takes and something to confirm your address isn't a big issue surely, identity card is something I didn't say anyway. We all love pubs and we wan't them to be places still open in the coming months, not if people go pub crawling and give false info they won't!

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

Edited August 7, 2020 by JamesM48

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

They’ll be taking our guns next...

 

i’m not a fan of identity cards or tracking people but as a temporary measure for public health reasons I’m ok with it. You can just imagIne you are back in wartime britain. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

Wow. Your posting is all over the place but that takes the biscuit. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Wow. Your posting is all over the place but that takes the biscuit. 

Aye whatever...so being against ID cards " is all over the place? seriously...

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

They’ll be taking our guns next...

 

i’m not a fan of identity cards or tracking people but as a temporary measure for public health reasons I’m ok with it. You can just imagIne you are back in wartime britain. 

 

In this day and age I find it pretty ludicrous that anybody would complain about ID cards etc. When most of them are walking around voluntarily and even addictively carrying a device that identifies and tracks them every step of the day.

Incidentally I don't. I'm a PC guy but I feel no compulsion to have a constant connection when I leave the house. I don't care who facebooked what or tweeted whatever.

When mobile phones first began appearing I got one long before most people had them and gave it up after 3 weeks. Haven't willingly carried one around since then.

It felt like exactly what you see here. People complaining about being tagged and monitored. Everywhere I went this damn thing was ringing. Mother, brother, sister, girlfriend, every Tom, Dick and drinking buddy.

F*%* that. When i'm out i'm out. You need to catch me at home to phone me.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Aye whatever...so being against ID cards " is all over the place? seriously...

I did not say ID cards just some form of conformation of someones true address to aid track and trace. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Apologies if this offends, but that’s pretty pathetic and cowardly thinking.
 

Not doing anything that risks catching or spreading the virus?

 

May as well top ourselves en masse. Humans are the vector here, and our lives depend on social interaction. Reducing and removing it will kill more people than any virus. 
 

Where does it end? Risk aversion on the scale we are witnessing is creating a psychologically messed up population. 

We all have beliefs in how to go about things and calling mine cowardly and pathetic is a bit low. No hard feelings on my part though! 

 

[Cade]

Test&trace would be hard to do unless you give out your contact details.

 

Just think a wee bit, eh?

 

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

29 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

ID cards are ‘fascist’?

Variations of ID cards are compulsory in most of the developed world. The UK is one of very few that doesn’t.

[GinRummy]

47 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

Which facist states started of by introducing ID cards?

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

PR China

 

While perhaps not strictly fascist, it is at the very least totalitarian. 

It was more the ‘facist state begins’ bit I was querying.

[Ibrahim Tall]

17 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Which facist states started of by introducing ID cards?

Probably one of those we’ll known fascist hell holes like Sweden, Belgium or the Netherlands.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[Robbofan99]

17 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

Seem to be a bit of a shift in the media the past few days. 

 

Reports from Switzerland that the fatality rate will be as low as 0.1% to a high of 0.5%, stats from Ireland showing this year to have lowest excess deaths for past 5 years. 4 times as many cancer deaths in June in the UK and Nightingale hospitals are being dismantled in secret despite a supposed 2nd wave! 

 

People are starting to wake up! 

 

 

 

Research on covid deaths from Loughborough and Sheffield Universities  https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/news/2020/july/new-approach-to-recording-covid-deaths/

 

 

 

Excellent news. The virus is fizzling out it seems judging by these figures. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Not sure how long they’ve had ID cards, but there are more and more daily transactions and interactions that are governed by your ID card and mobile phone in China. 
 

There are rumours that overseas Chinese that retain PRC passports will lose their ID cards and the rights that go with them. It’s a steady drip that is already culminating in vicious levels of state control over people’s movements, relationships and ideas. 

Very interesting, I wasn’t aware of the situation over there. Yeah ID cards can definitely be misused to control the population. 

[Cade]

Wait until people find out about Passports and Driving Licences.

All part of the plan of the deep state to erm something or other

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Sorry, I couldn’t find any better adjectives. Genuinely don’t want to offend, but the way I’ve seen everyone slip into passive acceptance (and in some cases, vitriolic, bullying defence) of decisions being made by governments who are simply making things up as they go along based on inconsistent modelling of something they don’t understand and with one eye on headlines, social media, elections and opinion polls means I’m getting increasingly despondent about how people respond to the risks inherent in everyday life.
 

A nanny state breeds an infantilised population. 
 

Apologies again for choice of words, and to be honest, I’m pretty cool with folk doing what they need to do survive - I just don’t want to be told that I have to take such extreme measures when I don’t see them as valid or necessary. 

No problem. I fully get your point about inconsistent messaging and that has lead to distrust of governments by many and is causing splits to develope which doesn't do anyone any good. A lot has been learned by science in the last few months though so I hope governments have now learned how to set the right balance required to take us forward with not too many unnecessary restrictions. Some are still important right now but hopefully short term only.

[Beni]

18 minutes ago, jonesy said:

PR China

 

While perhaps not strictly fascist, it is at the very least totalitarian. 

 

I'll admit I'm not a historian, but didn't totalitarianism begin in China with a people's army seizing control of the state, rather than the introduction of ID cards?

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Thats how a facist state begins ...little by little peoples civil rights eroded.

[davemclaren]

20 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Indeed. But the (mis)use of ID cards by authorities has led to restrictions on people’s lives. 

Restrictions in peoples lives happen without id cards, as you keep telling us. 😄

[GinRummy]

27 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Yeah, it’s really ramped up since I left in 2013. 
 

Shops, stalls, taxis, buses, even homeless folk no longer want cash. Not just prefer card, but you can, in many places, only pay by scanning QR codes. 
 

And then there’s a social score that you get, with employers, education providers and all government departments having access to how you ‘rate‘. 
 

In this age of data and information, governments are always playing catch up - it is logical, therefore, that they would use any means necessary to have greater levels of control (or at least data collection) over their population to close the gap.
 

Even the very fact that so much discourse and debate is published online is dangerous - as the hunting down of James’ previous posts on this thread proved the other day. It’s great that we have evidence of old opinions, but not when they are used to reject the idea that someone can change their stance.

 

The very words ‘Track and Trace’ give me the shivers, to be honest. Being able to anonymously go out and enjoy a beer or dinner without having to worry about getting a call (and the subsequent loss of income, stress and fear) because someone who you most likely didn’t come in contact with has a virus is not something I thought I’d ever have to worry about in the UK. 

Educational stuff. Thank you. Some life experience living over there I’d guess, in a good and bad way. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Some of this thread is mesmeric.

 

Handing over your contact details to contact tracing in an attempt to allow some kind of normality is akin to totalitarianism and fascism?

 

I think when folks were washing their tins with bleach they forgot to rinse it off. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Some of this thread is mesmeric.

 

Handing over your contact details to contact tracing in an attempt to allow some kind of normality is akin to totalitarianism and fascism?

 

I think when folks were washing their tins with bleach they forgot to rinse it off. 

 

 

Yeah I’ve moved on from that ! More enlightened now 

[davemclaren]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Yeah I’ve moved on from that ! More enlightened now 

You seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, if I may say so. 😄

[The Mighty Thor]

Lockdown in Preston  and now Lockdown in counties in Ireland. 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yeah I’ve moved on from that ! More enlightened now 

👍🏼

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, if I may say so. 😄

Yeah he has but imo he’s doing it correctly. Over anxious to begin with definitely but he’s now trying to get on with his life, surely that’s doing it right? I’m not sure why he’s getting stick tbh. 
 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Lockdown in Preston  and now Lockdown in counties in Ireland. 

Seen that on Twitter....this is crazy times we live in. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

👍🏼

Yeah he has but imo he’s doing it correctly. Over anxious to begin with definitely but he’s now trying to get on with his life, surely that’s doing it right? I’m not sure why he’s getting stick tbh. 
 

Only he knows if he thinks it’s doing it correctly for him. If you post an opinion you’re going to get a wide range of responses agreeing or disagreeing. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Only he knows if he thinks it’s doing it correctly for him. If you post an opinion you’re going to get a wide range of responses agreeing or disagreeing. 

Personally I think he’s doing it right but getting stick for it. He’s admitted he was a bit over anxious initially. All good imo Dave👍🏼

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I think the above range of posts shows that we all have different ways to approach the dangers that lurk in our short period of existence on the planet. 
 

The fact that others wish to dictate how we approach those same risks - and indeed demand that we do so in lockstep fashion - is grating for folk who prefer to make these decisions for themselves. 

The others, in this case, is the democratically elected government, whether you like them or not. There are a plethora of laws regulating everyones lives on all matters. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

 

The fact that others wish to dictate how we approach those same risks - and indeed demand that we do so in lockstep fashion - is grating for folk who prefer to make these decisions for themselves. 

The problem with public health emergencies is that those who prefer to make decisions for themselves rarely have the insight to make those decisions without impacting on the public health of the wider community.

As evidenced by the decision making of professional athletes in Aberdeen who probably thought whats the harm in a few pints and a bit of scran?

It appears to be the purvey of the younger generation who have been reared as being 'unique' or 'special' and as such feel that the rules and laws of the land are for others. 

The next lockdown in Scotland won't come from the over 50s. You can take that to the bank. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

You seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, if I may say so. 😄

What “ extreme “ ? I have never claimed the virus is a hoax etc or down played its lethal ness . I still recognise there is a risk  out with the home , but I’m more relaxed about this and like I’ve said making my own risk assessment . I wear a mask to shops etc and follow the COVID rules going to pubs etc . I am not a conspiracy theorist . I was in a few pubs last night , some had good COVID measures , “ 3 sisters “ “ Dickens “ “ Planet “ but “ the chanter “ was fairly lax . Bit hungover today 😨

Edited August 7, 2020 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Personally I think he’s doing it right but getting stick for it. He’s admitted he was a bit over anxious initially. All good imo Dave👍🏼

👍

[Victorian]

It's all very well to be determined to be independent of action and thought.    But when the personal choices and actions that arise from such a philosophy potentially stray into areas where there are consequences for other people,   does one have the moral right to make those choices?

 

Providing contact information?   Following other sorts of advice,  guidance,  rules designed to reduce infection?    Those are not zero consequence requests.   They're for the benefit of the wider public.

 

Opting out of participation in co-responsibility requests.   Great.   Well done for being a free thinker.   But when your co-responsibility opt out has a consequence for someone else... it becomes irresponsible.   

[vegas-voss]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I think the above range of posts shows that we all have different ways to approach the dangers that lurk in our short period of existence on the planet. 
 

The fact that others wish to dictate how we approach those same risks - and indeed demand that we do so in lockstep fashion - is grating for folk who prefer to make these decisions for themselves. 

I think it shows that none of us are experts and we all just have varying degrees of faith in what our governments are doing.We can read all we want but we are only basing it on others opinion.

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The problem with public health emergencies is that those who prefer to make decisions for themselves rarely have the insight to make those decisions without impacting on the public health of the wider community.

As evidenced by the decision making of professional athletes in Aberdeen who probably thought whats the harm in a few pints and a bit of scran?

It appears to be the purvey of the younger generation who have been reared as being 'unique' or 'special' and as such feel that the rules and laws of the land are for others. 

The next lockdown in Scotland won't come from the over 50s. You can take that to the bank. 

If the government opens up things like restaurants and bars what have they done wrong though?
I agree the lockdown won’t come from the over 50’s but what are you getting at there? We all felt bullet proof when young. 
People need to get their head round the fact that this isn’t going away and if you don’t start getting on with it your life as you’ve known it is completely over. Hiding behind the sofa hoping it will go away isn’t helping either. It’s simply waiting for us to come out again and it’s round in circles we go. 
Constant lockdowns are going to crush the country and people’s livelihoods. 
I fear that much more that a virus. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

If the government opens up things like restaurants and bars what have they done wrong though?
I agree the lockdown won’t come from the over 50’s but what are you getting at there? We all felt bullet proof when young. 
People need to get their head round the fact that this isn’t going away and if you don’t start getting on with it your life as you’ve known is completely over. Hiding behind the sofa hoping it will go away isn’t helping either. It’s simply waiting for us to come out again and it’s round in circles we go. 
Constant lockdowns are going to crush the country and people’s livelihoods. 
I fear that much more that a virus. 

 

I think people need to realise that the two extremes cannot be allowed to occur.    We can't have a full,  long term lockdown.   We can't abandon the efforts to suppress the rates of infection.    It's going to have to be something,  somewhere in between.   It's never going to be easy to know what and where.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Some good points. I’m not going to argue with them for the sake of doing so. The moral right to make choices that I believe will have no negative impact on others (such as wearing or not wearing a mask and travelling more than five miles) is very important to me, and what I believe it takes to be part of a grown up society.
 

This decision making responsibility is increasingly being removed and replaced with a ‘we can’t trust some so we can’t trust any’ and ‘it’s for your own good’ approach. That sets the alarm bells ringing. 

Good posting