Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[GinRummy]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

Germany has a population of 83 million compared to the UK's 68 million and yet so far has only a third of the number of deaths from the virus, and you don't consider that unusual?

No. They test and trace which follows WHO guidelines. Clearly a lot of people being diagnosed and kept isolated whereas people in this country were dismissing their symptoms as the cold and going about their daily business. Test, test, test was the WHO guideline. The uk done that initially, banged on about herd immunity for a couple of days, distanced themselves from that and the testing from then till now has been absolutely disgraceful. 

[vegas-voss]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Germany has a population of 83 million compared to the UK's 68 million and yet so far has only a third of the number of deaths from the virus, and you don't consider that unusual?

Is there ICU capacity not far greater than other countries in Europe ?

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

Do they not count the cause of death different ?

So they only call it a covid-19 death if they have no underlying conditions.

 

I very much doubt it, VV. Evidence of this suggestion required, methinks.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Is there ICU capacity not far greater than other countries in Europe ?

 

Yes.

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8

 

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I very much doubt it, VV. Evidence of this suggestion required, methinks.

I read that much stuff it might have been another country or it might have been shite mate that's why I put the question mark in.

[Victorian]

That was a hard hour viewing of C4 news.    Magnificent and comprehensive coverage but what a grim picture.     You don't get the true picture from the BBC.

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes.

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8

 

**** me look at how far the UK is down that list

[redjambo]

Just now, vegas-voss said:

I read that much stuff it might have been another country or it might have been shite mate that's why I put the question mark in.

 

No probs, VV.

 

An interesting article on the differences in reporting: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/31/counting-coronavirus-different-countries-calculating-death-tolls/

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

**** me look at how far the UK is down that list

 

I know. Sobering stuff.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

20th March: EasyJet pays out over £170million in dividends.

31st March: EasyJet begs for a government bailout.

 

*yes, I know that the dividend was announced at the AGM in february and was legally binding 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Link please.

 

 

Wonder if you've found a link for your claim about Easyjet begging the government for a bailout.

 

Got to admit I'm struggling to find one myself.

 

Plenty about Loganair being on the verge of asking the government for a bailout and lots of stories about Easyjet grounding their fleet, but nothing that I can see about Easyjet asking for a bailout.

 

Could you have got the wrong airline.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

I know. Sobering stuff.

Yep an absolute disgrace for a country of our wealth  

[Homme]

28 minutes ago, Victorian said:

That was a hard hour viewing of C4 news.    Magnificent and comprehensive coverage but what a grim picture.     You don't get the true picture from the BBC.

 

I'm going to start watching. Been mostly sky news for me up until now. 

 

What time is C4 news on at? 

[kingantti1874]

25 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yep an absolute disgrace for a country of our wealth  

in Scotland the figure was 5, in Wales 6 and in England 7 per 100k.. really bad  

 

we talk about quadrupling capacity, it’s nowhere near enough

[Dagger Is Back]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Just found out I’ve got a close and vulnerable family member displaying the symptoms of COVID-19.  Really not the day for that news to come through.

 

Im going to bow out of this site for a while as I’m not sure my being on here is going to do my mood much good.

 

To all of you, even those I have my regular run ins with, I hope you and yours stay safe and well and see you all on the other side.  
 

 

Sorry to hear that BJ. I really hope for a happy ending for you and your family

[Victorian]

12 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

I'm going to start watching. Been mostly sky news for me up until now. 

 

What time is C4 news on at? 

 

7pm.    

[Dagger Is Back]

39 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

 

Wonder if you've found a link for your claim about Easyjet begging the government for a bailout.

 

Got to admit I'm struggling to find one myself.

 

Plenty about Loganair being on the verge of asking the government for a bailout and lots of stories about Easyjet grounding their fleet, but nothing that I can see about Easyjet asking for a bailout.

 

Could you have got the wrong airline.

 

I found this but it refers to taxpayer backed bridging loans https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/12/airlines-call-johnson-bailouts/

[stirlo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

The surprising figure is the low number of folk that are dying compared to the number who are infected.

 

UK: 29,474 cases - 2,352 deaths

Germany: 76,544 cases - 858 deaths

 

That can't all be down to increased testing. When they're actually airlifting French patients in Alsace to German hospitals, you know they're doing something right.

 

But, as you say, let's wait and see,

But bear in mind that it's not just more testing - it's way more. The other issue is who is being tested as some groups (e.g. frontline staff) are more likely to test positive than others. Generally comparing the figures from one country to the other is like comparing apples and pears as there are many variables. Similarly comparing the trajectory of the spread on a daily basis from one country to another is very simplistic because the way the virus has spread geographically in different countries varies greatly.   

 

Unfortunately what we can say with a fair degree of certainty is that virtually every country in western Europe and North America is going to be badly hit to a greater or lesser extent. These really are grim times.  

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

See below;

 

A FIRM that stepped up to help build thousands of much-needed ventilators was turned down by the Government because it failed to meet its standards, the city’s MP has said.

Worcester-based Gtech, which answered an important Government call to help design and build some of the 30,000 required ventilators to deal with an expected flood of coronavirus patients, was told last week its services were no longer required by the government.

City MP Robin Walker said: “My understanding is that, having checked with the Department for Health, Gtech failed the specifications and didn’t quite meet what had been set which is why they weren’t asked to produce any more.”

Gtech owner Nick Grey said his team’s ventilators had not been “snubbed” and he was relieved the government was not forced to use his “rudimentary” designs because the coronavirus crisis was so bad.

He said it would need to be a “big shock” and “real emergency” if Gtech’s rudimentary ventilators were needed by the NHS at this stage.

 

“It’s good for everybody that they didn’t need the simple option because it would mean we were in a very desperate situation,” he said.

Dyson was from scratch. I'm pretty sure Gtech could have modified the problem, ASAP, just look at Mercedes F1. But hey, let's give a donor the contract and wait 6 weeks at least for the supply.

 

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

Worker in the Amazon plant in Fife tests positive.

Staff are already unhappy at the lack of any kind of PPE and blatant disregard of distancing guidelines.

It'll tear through that place like wildfire.

 

The warehouse is enormous, when I was there last month you would be hard pushed to see 2 staff within shouting distance of each other.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

I found this but it refers to taxpayer backed bridging loans https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/12/airlines-call-johnson-bailouts/

 

It's a different thing, that was calling for industry wide help, and it was before the government announced the 80% wages thing & it's dated 12 March.

The claim was that Easyjet begged for a bailout yesterday 31 March.

Which incidentally nobody seems to have reported anything about, might be a reason why nothing's been mentioned about it.

[vegas-voss]

6 week old baby in the US dies from Covid-19.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/newborn-in-connecticut-dies-of-coronavirus/2248709/%3famp

 

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by vegas-voss

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Dyson was from scratch. I'm pretty sure Gtech could have modified the problem, ASAP, just look at Mercedes F1. But hey, let's give a donor the contract and wait 6 weeks at least for the supply.

 

 

Would you not think if Gtech could have modified it, Nick Grey would have mentioned that, instead of calling his design the simple option.

[The White Cockade]

First Covid 19 death on Isle of Man today

Only 8 ventilators on the island so won’t cope if it escalates as per elsewhere 

about 60 positive tests so far here but tests sent to UK to be checked and now taking 14 days to get results back 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

6 week old baby in the US dies from Covid-19.

 

 

 

Tragic

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490654-connecticut-confirms-death-of-6-week-old-baby-linked-to-coronavirus

 

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Would you not think if Gtech could have modified it, Nick Grey would have mentioned that, instead of calling his design the simple option.

Lots of simple options to help save lives.The F1 one is a fairly simple ( but effective ) looking device.

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by vegas-voss

[Homme]

4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

6 week old baby in the US dies from Covid-19.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/newborn-in-connecticut-dies-of-coronavirus/2248709/%3famp

 

 

 

There are younger infected babies in Scotland at this moment in time. 

 

Very scary. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

Lots of simple options to help save lives.The F1 one is a fairly simple looking device.

 

 

Indeed, but my understanding is that the F1 one isn't a ventilator, it's a breathing aid and it's based upon those currently already in use in the NHS.

The F1 device is to try and help prevent people getting bad enough for them to have to go onto a ventilator.

[vegas-voss]

I seen on the news late this week where doctors/designers all over the world where developing simple solutions for ventilators.One guys words stood out he said the simple pen is used to get give air when there is nothing else,so yes these ventilators are great but are more simple quicker solution will save many more lives.I think this is what the Mercedes device is going to give.

Edited April 1, 2020 by vegas-voss

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, but my understanding is that the F1 one isn't a ventilator, it's a breathing aid and it's based upon those currently already in use in the NHS.

The F1 device is to try and help prevent people getting bad enough for them to have to go onto a ventilator.

Yes it is mate you are right.

Edited April 1, 2020 by vegas-voss

[Homme]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, but my understanding is that the F1 one isn't a ventilator, it's a breathing aid and it's based upon those currently already in use in the NHS.

The F1 device is to try and help prevent people getting bad enough for them to have to go onto a ventilator.

 

Your right. CPAP machines or similar. 

[kila]

Only downside to the F1 device is it needs changing after 20 laps

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

There are younger infected babies in Scotland at this moment in time. 

 

Very scary. 

 

That doesn't sound like good news.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Looking like another doctor has died, that'll be 5 in the UK now if true.

 

[ri Alban]

18 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Would you not think if Gtech could have modified it, Nick Grey would have mentioned that, instead of calling his design the simple option.

The simple option would have done for now, until upgrades were in place. Or is nothing better than something?

[milky_26]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The simple option would have done for now, until upgrades were in place. Or is nothing better than something?

wrong, before any could be used they needed approved. if you try and use something that is not approved or does not meet the required standard you could do more harm than good.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

wrong, before any could be used they needed approved. if you try and use something that is not approved or does not meet the required standard you could do more harm than good.

As I said, Mercedes did it in a week. I'm sure standards would be met, or why are Gtech even in business.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, anymore. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The simple option would have done for now, until upgrades were in place. Or is nothing better than something?

 

His design failed the specs required.

Just imagine the row if the government had went ahead with his rudamentary design and it failed to do the job, get fecking slaughtered they would, not just that, but surely you actually want something that works.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

As I said, Mercedes did it in a week. I'm sure standards would be met, or why are Gtech even in business.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, anymore. 

 

Because they took an existing design and improved it.

[ri Alban]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

His design failed the specs required.

Just imagine the row if the government had went ahead with his rudamentary design and it failed to do the job, get fecking slaughtered they would, not just that, but surely you actually want something that works.

Whatever. As long as Dyson gets his passed, everyone is happy. If their not all dead by then.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Because they took an existing design and improved it.

Exactly! Who's Gtech selling to, btw. The blun asylum?

[milky_26]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

As I said, Mercedes did it in a week. I'm sure standards would be met, or why are Gtech even in business.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, anymore. 

but those standards had not been met for the design they submitted. and it is a massive difference between making a vacuum cleaner and a medical device. if your vacuum cleaner fails you have a dirty house, if their ventilator fails it will most likely cost people their lives

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Whatever. As long as Dyson gets his passed, everyone is happy. If their not all dead by then.

so the fact jambo-jimbo isn't saying what you want to hear it is whatever. that is a dangerous attitude to take when it is people lives that are on the line. and their is no guarantee that the dyson one will get approval. 

 

 

[ri Alban]

Just now, milky_26 said:

but those standards had not been met for the design they submitted. and it is a massive difference between making a vacuum cleaner and a medical device. if your vacuum cleaner fails you have a dirty house, if their ventilator fails it will most likely cost people their lives

I'm sure Dyson will keep our lungs clear. and I'm sure working with the EU would have helped, but hey... Nothing is better than something, isn't it. Personally, I'd take a hose and foot bump if required.

[dobmisterdobster]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

That was a hard hour viewing of C4 news.    Magnificent and comprehensive coverage but what a grim picture.     You don't get the true picture from the BBC.

 

It was fun watching them doing damage control over President Trump's increasing approval rating.

Gotta protect the narrative at all costs.

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

so the fact jambo-jimbo isn't saying what you want to hear it is whatever. that is a dangerous attitude to take when it is people lives that are on the line. and their is no guarantee that the dyson one will get approval. 

 

 

Dyson? Has his plans not been approved before manufacturing? Surely he has a prototype, or has he been handed a blank cheque.

Edited April 1, 2020 by ri Alban

[Spellczech]

14 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Of course they are. Short of a miracle vaccine in record time it's probably the only realistic way out. They're just trying to spread out the pain as best they can.

We're already getting used to seeing the horrific death toll rolling in from here and other countries. It's becoming normalised. Strap yersels in, folks.

Only problem is that it is not known if people who have had it mildly are immune or not...A larger viral load or a mutated strain which comes about from allowing so many people to be infected could result in reinfection or worse variant. Herd immunity is callous and inhumane but it is also one hell of a gamble...

 

If the idiots had just tried to contain it when they could...We're an island, we had a better chance than any country with land borders but our Govt effed it up royally...

[Tazio]

Jesus. That recording on the BBC news of the old man in Belfast not able to go to his wife’s funeral as he’s in hospital with it as well was absolutely heartbreaking. 

[BlackJAC?]

Things could be getting interesting politically.  Both the Daily Mail and The Telegraph beginning to lay into Boris Johnston & Co with regards to the testing shambles. Thought I'd never see it tbh.

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, BlackJAC? said:

Things could be getting interesting politically.  Both the Daily Mail and The Telegraph beginning to lay into Boris Johnston & Co with regards to the testing shambles. Thought I'd never see it tbh.

A shock but maybe not so much when you think on it,  the vast majority of fatalities are impacting their core audience. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

Lots of simple options to help save lives.The F1 one is a fairly simple ( but effective ) looking device.

 

It is, I use one for my Sleep Apnoea. Not sure how many are kicking about already though.