Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Tragic really . Even worse those dicks who have it as a banner on their Facebook profile “ I’m double vaccinated “ ! Big deal ! 

 

 

I cringe at any sign of people advertising their virtue. Sadly, it is overload nowadays as people compete with one another.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I cringe at any sign of people advertising their virtue. Sadly, it is overload nowadays as people compete with one another.

Oh I know . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Interesting graph and yes I know that the vaccinated are going to be higher in all areas cause more people are vaccinated . Just before some smart arse says it . 

[Harry Potter]

Flu and booster done, taken 20 minutes early, superb service.

[Dennis Denuto]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Interesting graph and yes I know that the vaccinated are going to be higher in all areas cause more people are vaccinated . Just before some smart arse says it . 

The take from that graph is that 9% of over 12s are unvaccinated, but they make up nearly 30% of Hospitalisations and 15% of deaths. Even the cases shows how much more likely and unvaccinated person is to catch the virus than not - so even if you are young you really should get the jags and the boosters

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

The take from that graph is that 9% of over 12s are unvaccinated, but they make up nearly 30% of Hospitalisations and 15% of deaths. Even the cases shows how much more likely and unvaccinated person is to catch the virus than not - so even if you are young you really should get the jags and the boosters

 

How are you arriving at that part in bold? The hospitalisations and deaths could be stacked entirely in the older age groups of the unvaccinated, it could also not. I don't know, just interested in what you've seen to make that extrapolation. The attached graph is England admittedly but it still suggests the younger age groups have nothing to worry about in regards to death regardless of vaccination status as those lines were much the same for them pre-vaccination.

 

I'm actually surprised in the opposite direction looking at that graph. I'd have thought the split of positive tests would have been even more favourable for the vaccinated and 9% accounting for 15% of the deaths is far closer than I'd have expected.

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

The take from that graph is that 9% of over 12s are unvaccinated, but they make up nearly 30% of Hospitalisations and 15% of deaths. Even the cases shows how much more likely and unvaccinated person is to catch the virus than not - so even if you are young you really should get the jags and the boosters

Come on how many 12 years old have died of covid ? Actually how many under 40 ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

How are you arriving at that part in bold? The hospitalisations and deaths could be stacked entirely in the older age groups of the unvaccinated, it could also not. I don't know, just interested in what you've seen to make that extrapolation. The attached graph is England admittedly but it still suggests the younger age groups have nothing to worry about in regards to death regardless of vaccination status as those lines were much the same for them pre-vaccination.

 

I'm actually surprised in the opposite direction looking at that graph. I'd have thought the split of positive tests would have been even more favourable for the vaccinated and 9% accounting for 15% of the deaths is far closer than I'd have expected.

Exactly . It’s still the same age grouo in the vast majority of cases dying of covid . That’s been static since the very beginning . It’s bizarre to even suggest that over 12s are at risk unless your a Govt spokesperson. 

[Dennis Denuto]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

How are you arriving at that part in bold? The hospitalisations and deaths could be stacked entirely in the older age groups of the unvaccinated, it could also not. I don't know, just interested in what you've seen to make that extrapolation. The attached graph is England admittedly but it still suggests the younger age groups have nothing to worry about in regards to death regardless of vaccination status as those lines were much the same for them pre-vaccination.

 

I'm actually surprised in the opposite direction looking at that graph. I'd have thought the split of positive tests would have been even more favourable for the vaccinated and 9% accounting for 15% of the deaths is far closer than I'd have expected.

Because they are more likely to catch it and if you have it you can pass it on to someone else who is more likely to have a negative outcome.

 

The numbers all point at it being better to get vaccinated than not to.

 

If everyone was vaccinated then cases, hospitals and deaths would all be doing better.

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Because they are more likely to catch it and if you have it you can pass it on to someone else who is more likely to have a negative outcome.

 

The numbers all point at it being better to get vaccinated than not to.

 

If everyone was vaccinated then cases, hospitals and deaths would all be doing better.

 

I get you now; yes it would be nice of them if they did it for the benefit of others from an altruistic perspective. Maybe we should play that card a bit more than expecting it of them/covertly forcing it. 

 

Personally I'm still of the opinion that we should vaccinate the old and the vulnerable and focus on making sure we've done all those people globally before worrying too much about anyone else but I appreciate there's the risk of variants etc.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Because they are more likely to catch it and if you have it you can pass it on to someone else who is more likely to have a negative outcome.

 

The numbers all point at it being better to get vaccinated than not to.

 

If everyone was vaccinated then cases, hospitals and deaths would all be doing better.

Who’s more likely to catch ? Children ? But they can catch it if vaccinated as well and  still pass it on ! 

 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Does the main publication have narrower age splits? <65 is too broad to be insightful in anyway imo.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I get you now; yes it would be nice of them if they did it for the benefit of others from an altruistic perspective. 

 

Personally I'm still of the opinion that we should vaccinate the old and the vulnerable and focus on making sure we've done all those people globally before worrying too much about anyone else but I appreciate there's the risk of variants etc.

No children and healthy people do not need vaccinated . The very reason people get vaccinated is for their own health not for others health . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Does the main publication have narrower age splits? <65 is too broad to be insightful in anyway imo.

Well that’s the clever and sneaky bit isn’t it ? For all we know those under 65 could all be 64 ! 

[Dennis Denuto]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I get you now; yes it would be nice of them if they did it for the benefit of others from an altruistic perspective. 

 

Personally I'm still of the opinion that we should vaccinate the old and the vulnerable and focus on making sure we've done all those people globally before worrying too much about anyone else but I appreciate there's the risk of variants etc.

At this stage of the game there should be enough vaccines for everyone, everywhere to be offered them.

 

It is not just for the benefit for others, they could require hospital treatment or medical treatments, mental health help etc which is denied them due to the hospital rates of Covid. 

 

It helps everyone, individually and collectively if people get vaccinated.

[Taffin]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Well that’s the clever and sneaky bit isn’t it ? For all we know those under 65 could all be 64 ! 

 

It does make me suspicious I'll be honest, but equally if they didn't roll it up they'd probably have a lot of categories which would make the summary a bit messy.

 

I'd guess that 18 is spread something like:

 

18-30: 0

30-45: 2

45-60: 5

60-65: 11

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

At this stage of the game there should be enough vaccines for everyone, everywhere to be offered them.

 

It is not just for the benefit for others, they could require hospital treatment or medical treatments, mental health help etc which is denied them due to the hospital rates of Covid. 

 

It helps everyone, individually and collectively if people get vaccinated.

 

We're nearly 2 years into this now; the NHS pressure from this time last year should be drastically reduced from those who have been vaccinated and I'd assume we've greatly scaled up resources. Equally the resources for mental health are surely not from the same pool as the resources used to treat Covid, from both a facility and personnel perspective (?). Nobody should be denied treatments imo, but if they are shared resources, why is the inference that those with Covid should get priority in treatment?

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It does make me suspicious I'll be honest, but equally if they didn't roll it up they'd probably have a lot of categories which would make the summary a bit messy.

 

I'd guess that 18 is spread something like:

 

18-30: 0

30-45: 2

45-60: 5

60-65: 11

I’ve tried to get the breakdown of under 65 but it’s proving futile . Not surprising . 
 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It does make me suspicious I'll be honest, but equally if they didn't roll it up they'd probably have a lot of categories which would make the summary a bit messy.

 

I'd guess that 18 is spread something like:

 

18-30: 0

30-45: 2

45-60: 5

60-65: 11

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/deaths-involving-covid-19-week-47-22-28-november-2021

 

 

this also notes that deaths from cancer and  heart disease are up from their usual  rate too . It looks like covid is the only game in town really 

Edited December 7, 2021 by JamesM48

[Mysterion]

54 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Interesting graph and yes I know that the vaccinated are going to be higher in all areas cause more people are vaccinated . Just before some smart arse says it . 

 

Where is this from ? Looks like some dafty putting out raw data with no context to make a point on twitter hoping people fall for it ? 

 

It does look like it needs the data to be normalised to reflect the % of the population that is vaccinated/unvaccinated to give a true view of cases/hospitalisations etc. 

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/news/2021/deaths-involving-covid-19-week-47-22-28-november-2021

 

 

Cheers, still quite broad compared to my split but I wasn't far off with my guess.

 

15-44: 2

45-64: 16

[Costanza]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No children and healthy people do not need vaccinated . The very reason people get vaccinated is for their own health not for others health . 

I'm sure the number of healthy people who have developed long covid and had debilitating health since infection will be in complete agreement with your emphatic statement that they didn't need the vaccine.

Coronavirus: Young long Covid sufferers lead vaccine drive - BBC News

 

Also, the vaccine does help cut transmission so the second part of your statement isn't accurate.

Vaccines reduce Covid transmission by 40%: WHO (ibtimes.co.uk)

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I'm sure the number of healthy people who have developed long covid and had debilitating health since infection will be in complete agreement with your emphatic statement that they didn't need the vaccine.

Coronavirus: Young long Covid sufferers lead vaccine drive - BBC News

 

It's a fair challenge and we've maybe not heard so much about long Covid lately. What impact has the vaccine had at on it? 

 

I was surprised tbh that the chart earlier was as even a split in terms of catching it between vaccinated and unvaccinated (it's not even, but you hopefully get what I mean), of course slightly reducing the initial risk of catching it will help long Covid, but marginally so. It is however, clearly very effective at preventing hospitalisations and deaths but I've not seen it's effect on reducing long Covid quantified; that would potentially be a really compelling bit of messaging.

 

5 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Also, the vaccine does help cut transmission so the second part of your statement isn't accurate.

Vaccines reduce Covid transmission by 40%: WHO (ibtimes.co.uk)

 

[Dennis Denuto]

19 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

We're nearly 2 years into this now; the NHS pressure from this time last year should be drastically reduced from those who have been vaccinated and I'd assume we've greatly scaled up resources. Equally the resources for mental health are surely not from the same pool as the resources used to treat Covid, from both a facility and personnel perspective (?). Nobody should be denied treatments imo, but if they are shared resources, why is the inference that those with Covid should get priority in treatment?

Look I am not in disagreement with much of your position, James put up the graph, I just posted what that graph told me. It shows getting vaccinated is a far better outcome for everyone than not getting vaccinated. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Cheers, still quite broad compared to my split but I wasn't far off with my guess.

 

15-44: 2

45-64: 16

You weren’t well done . So basically older , over 45 ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I'm sure the number of healthy people who have developed long covid and had debilitating health since infection will be in complete agreement with your emphatic statement that they didn't need the vaccine.

Coronavirus: Young long Covid sufferers lead vaccine drive - BBC News

 

Also, the vaccine does help cut transmission so the second part of your statement isn't accurate.

Vaccines reduce Covid transmission by 40%: WHO (ibtimes.co.uk)

Yes I’m sure the vast majority of healthy young people who have not had any Long covid well agree with me . 

[Costanza]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It's a fair challenge and we've maybe not heard so much about long Covid lately. What impact has the vaccine had at on it? 

 

I was surprised tbh that the chart earlier was as even a split in terms of catching it between vaccinated and unvaccinated (it's not even, but you hopefully get what I mean), of course slightly reducing the initial risk of catching it will help long Covid, but marginally so. It is however, clearly very effective at preventing hospitalisations and deaths but I've not seen it's effect on reducing long Covid quantified; that would potentially be a really compelling bit of messaging.

 

 

Research indicates that it does reduce the risk of long term illness (up to half according to this):

"We found that the odds of having symptoms for 28 days or more after post-vaccination infection were approximately halved by having two vaccine doses. This result suggests that the risk of long COVID is reduced in individuals who have received double vaccination, when additionally considering the already documented reduced risk of infection overall"

 

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases

 

Personally I think the impact of long covid has been downplayed throughout this pandemic but that's another argument.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It's a fair challenge and we've maybe not heard so much about long Covid lately. What impact has the vaccine had at on it? 

 

I was surprised tbh that the chart earlier was as even a split in terms of catching it between vaccinated and unvaccinated (it's not even, but you hopefully get what I mean), of course slightly reducing the initial risk of catching it will help long Covid, but marginally so. It is however, clearly very effective at preventing hospitalisations and deaths but I've not seen it's effect on reducing long Covid quantified; that would potentially be a really compelling bit of messaging.

 

 

There’s no evidence to suggest vaccines help reduce long covid symptoms . The long covid issue is often brought out when other arguments fail really . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Costanza said:

Research indicates that it does reduce the risk of long term illness (up to half according to this):

"We found that the odds of having symptoms for 28 days or more after post-vaccination infection were approximately halved by having two vaccine doses. This result suggests that the risk of long COVID is reduced in individuals who have received double vaccination, when additionally considering the already documented reduced risk of infection overall"

 

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases

 

Personally I think the impact of long covid has been downplayed throughout this pandemic but that's another argument.

Anyone who has had a serious disease has residue issues regarding it for a length of time . It isn’t unique to covid . 

[Victorian]

It's quite remarkable (perhaps not so much) that people still cannot understand that vaccinating the absolute maximum amount of people possible contributes towards suppressing transmission,  which in direct consequence reduces the amount of virus finding the groups of people who are more likely to experience acute illness,  which in direct consequence reduces the strain on healthcare services and also diminishes the extent,  nature and duration of social and economic harms.  

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I'm sure the number of healthy people who have developed long covid and had debilitating health since infection will be in complete agreement with your emphatic statement that they didn't need the vaccine.

Coronavirus: Young long Covid sufferers lead vaccine drive - BBC News

 

Also, the vaccine does help cut transmission so the second part of your statement isn't accurate.

Vaccines reduce Covid transmission by 40%: WHO (ibtimes.co.uk)

“ less common in younger people “ 

 

 

[Costanza]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

There’s no evidence to suggest vaccines help reduce long covid symptoms . The long covid issue is often brought out when other arguments fail really . 

Apart from the link I just replied back to Taffin with.  

 

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Anyone who has had a serious disease has residue issues regarding it for a length of time . It isn’t unique to covid . 

Who said it was unique to Covid? That's a strawman argument that doesn't counter my point.

I get you have a stubborness on the vaccine for healthy people but your responses are just dogma really.

[Costanza]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

It's quite remarkable (perhaps not so much) that people still cannot understand that vaccinating the absolute maximum amount of people possible contributes towards suppressing transmission,  which in direct consequence reduces the amount of virus finding the groups of people who are more likely to experience acute illness,  which in direct consequence reduces the strain on healthcare services and also diminishes the extent,  nature and duration of social and economic harms.  

 

 

Well, quite.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's quite remarkable (perhaps not so much) that people still cannot understand that vaccinating the absolute maximum amount of people possible contributes towards suppressing transmission,  which in direct consequence reduces the amount of virus finding the groups of people who are more likely to experience acute illness,  which in direct consequence reduces the strain on healthcare services and also diminishes the extent,  nature and duration of social and economic harms.  

 

 

And it’s quite remarkable that healthy and young people would take a vaccine which has no discernible health benefits for them . In fact it’s ludicrous . We have still to see that mess that lockdown has made on mental and physical health of people. That avalanche will come . 

[Costanza]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

“ less common in younger people “ 

 

 

Of course it is less in younger people however thanks for posting a link that states "Although long covid is rarer in younger people, that does not mean it is absent"

 

 

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

And it’s quite remarkable that healthy and young people would take a vaccine which has no discernible health benefits for them . In fact it’s ludicrous . We have still to see that mess that lockdown has made on mental and physical health of people. That avalanche will come . 

And the only thing that got us out of lockdown is getting vaccinated, if everyone gets vaccinated we will not go back into any kind of lockdown, IMO, it is certainly far more unlikely.

 

So the mental health of people will not be further effected. When will we see this effect of lockdown do you think?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Awe naw he’s crawling out the wood work again to Spread doom and misery yet again . 
 

 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus-scotland-locations-likely-to-be-closed-due-to-the-omicron-variant-before-christmas-3484927?fbclid=IwAR10ZUbqbqGxOrEq2tdkyW6nnX8ZQDvAaT-bBw_Si9_b2gmT0BAeVBpTIWA

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

And the only thing that got us out of lockdown is getting vaccinated, if everyone gets vaccinated we will not go back into any kind of lockdown, IMO, it is certainly far more unlikely.

 

So the mental health of people will not be further effected. When will we see this effect of lockdown do you think?

Er lockdown was a choice made by Govts  you know . 

Edited December 7, 2021 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Of course it is less in younger people however thanks for posting a link that states "Although long covid is rarer in younger people, that does not mean it is absent"

 

 

Yes it’s rare ! 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

And it’s quite remarkable that healthy and young people would take a vaccine which has no discernible health benefits for them . In fact it’s ludicrous . We have still to see that mess that lockdown has made on mental and physical health of people. That avalanche will come . 

 

It does have a benefit though.  Both medically and in terms of avoiding the epidemic prolonging are more than it has to.  You've pointed out mental and physicsl health.  That only supports the case for reducing the duration of the epidemic by trying to suppress transmission of virus using the armamentarium of mitigating interventions.  The big gun being vaccines.

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

And it’s quite remarkable that healthy and young people would take a vaccine which has no discernible health benefits for them . In fact it’s ludicrous . We have still to see that mess that lockdown has made on mental and physical health of people. That avalanche will come . 

I’m (relatively) young and pretty healthy. I’m so grateful I was double-vaccinated when I caught Covid. I was very ill and that was with the antibodies there to help fight it. Without those I genuinely believe I would have been in hospital or worse. I would recommend anyone of any age to get vaccinated. 
👍🏻

Edited December 7, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[i8hibsh]

It is clear that the covid hysteria mob think they are better and smarter than those who see it all so so differently.  I pity every last one of them.

 

Tomorrow will be a fresh day for them to wake up, check the media to see the latest covid figures, frantically check to see if a new variant has been found then spend all day on a forum discussing every latest detail and eagerly awaiting their latest booster jab thinking they are saving the day.

 

Something highly suspect about their behaviour imo, to me it is bordering on derangement.  It strikes me that certain people on here will happily see out their days at the mercy of this bad flu.

 

The government, media, scientists, WHO, pharmaceutical companies and so called experts are holding every inch of their being to ransom.  Tragic behaviour, truly truly tragic and without doubt insanity in the extreme.

[JudyJudyJudy]

740,000 potential cancer cases missed as well as other major health concerns 

 

 

https://www.gbnews.uk/gb-views/patrick-christys-more-people-will-die-as-a-result-of-our-response-to-covid-than-from-covid-itself/174035?fbclid=IwAR1OOhFSEkEGIJop01G-HXunvJX187tVEi7-gEfxufYiCOlikBAoDjnMj1Y

[Taffin]

26 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Look I am not in disagreement with much of your position, James put up the graph, I just posted what that graph told me. It shows getting vaccinated is a far better outcome for everyone than not getting vaccinated. 

 

Agreed, sorry not meaning it to be an interrogation or argument. Being honest, I'm just enjoying debating something that's not work this morning to provide a bit of respite from a really busy few days👍

 

19 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Research indicates that it does reduce the risk of long term illness (up to half according to this):

"We found that the odds of having symptoms for 28 days or more after post-vaccination infection were approximately halved by having two vaccine doses. This result suggests that the risk of long COVID is reduced in individuals who have received double vaccination, when additionally considering the already documented reduced risk of infection overall"

 

Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study - The Lancet Infectious Diseases

 

Personally I think the impact of long covid has been downplayed throughout this pandemic but that's another argument.

 

Thanks for sharing that, I really think they should be talking more about that. Maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it in fairness.

 

18 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

There’s no evidence to suggest vaccines help reduce long covid symptoms . The long covid issue is often brought out when other arguments fail really . 

 

I remain a bit sceptical of long Covid as when you read some of the articles the symptoms could apply to how I have felt for periods of time long before Covid showed up but that's just circumstantial stuff so I shouldn't let it shape my thoughts too much. The stuff that Constanza has shared about is interesting and insightful imo.

[Costanza]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes it’s rare ! 

So there is a risk but you think that there is no discernible health benefit. Unless you know the risk of getting the vaccine is higher, then I struggle to understand the logic here.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’m (relatively) young and pretty healthy. I’m so grateful ai was double-vaccinated when I caught Covid. I was very ill and that was with the antibodies there to help fight it. Without those I genuinely believe I would have been in hospital or worse. I would recommend anyone of any age to get vaccinated. 

I’ve got a few family members similar age to you and gad covid and it had zero impact on them . Zero . So it affects everyone differently really . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Agreed, sorry not meaning it to be an interrogation or argument. Being honest, I'm just enjoying debating something that's not work this morning to provide a bit of respite from a really busy few days👍

 

 

Thanks for sharing that, I really think they should be talking more about that. Maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it in fairness.

 

 

I remain a bit sceptical of long Covid as when you read some of the articles the symptoms could apply to how I have felt for periods of time long before Covid showed up but that's just circumstantial stuff so I shouldn't let it shape my thoughts too much. The stuff that Constanza has shared about is interesting and insightful imo.

Yes I’ve read a few reports dissing long covid really .  So I’m quite sceptical of it and As I said any illness which affects the lungs can have some impact but I think it’s been exaggerated yet again . I’ll need to locate a good article I read about it stating that it wasn’t a significant concern . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Costanza said:

So there is a risk but you think that there is no discernible health benefit. Unless you know the risk of getting the vaccine is higher, then I struggle to understand the logic here.

 

Why take a vaccine if there is no discernible health benefit? It’s like me taking the pill 💊 ! Well as for the vaccine we still don’t know the Longer term side effects obviously . There are certainly various short them side effects noted almost every day . One being death . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

"...what works is giving people the right information at the right time.”

 

Aye, Jase. Like telling folk there was no evidence that masks make any difference and then doing a 180 after plenty had died so you could look like you had some kind of control over folk. Chancer.