Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Dennis Denuto]

47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

On your first para I think we will have some idea of the effect of restrictions because of the different rules on different countries. The UK has been described as the Sweden of today in relation to Omnicron because we have so far very light restrictions compared to most of Europe. There will be nothing conclusive just as there is no really conclusive evidence on the ultimate impact of Coronavirus of different levels of restrictions. 

 No doubt there will be deaths but the lack so far is surely encouraging especially given that the great majority of cases have been in places with poor medical facilities.

Except we are vaccinated......

[Taffin]

30 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59528615

 

Protect the old and vulnerable... but only if it's to do with covid.

 

'However, Dennis Reed, director of Silver Voices, a campaign group for older people, said NHS England's proposals were a "blatant case of age discrimination" that suggested "once you reach the age of 75 your health is of less importance than the rest of the population".'

 

Is this guy high? Has he just woken from a 20 month coma? Older people's health has been prioritised to the detriment of everyone else's over that time frame. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

'However, Dennis Reed, director of Silver Voices, a campaign group for older people, said NHS England's proposals were a "blatant case of age discrimination" that suggested "once you reach the age of 75 your health is of less importance than the rest of the population".'

 

Is this guy high? Has he just woken from a 20 month coma? Older people's health has been prioritised to the detriment of everyone else's over that time frame. 

 

spot on

[Francis Albert]

20 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Except we are vaccinated......

As are the countries I suggested outcomes  of different restrictions currently might be compared with. 

[Rocco_Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

'However, Dennis Reed, director of Silver Voices, a campaign group for older people, said NHS England's proposals were a "blatant case of age discrimination" that suggested "once you reach the age of 75 your health is of less importance than the rest of the population".'

 

Is this guy high? Has he just woken from a 20 month coma? Older people's health has been prioritised to the detriment of everyone else's over that time frame. 

 

 

I think his point is those aged below 75 will still be entitled to get their annual health check.

 

So if your in your 50's, 60's, 70's your GP will still have to do it if requested but 75 and over your routine health check is kicked in to the long grass.

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

As are the countries I suggested outcomes  of different restrictions currently might be compared with. 

I think he means Sweden followed that model when there was no vaccine and now we're following the Swedish model with the majority  vaccinated

[Taffin]

53 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

I think his point is those aged below 75 will still be entitled to get their annual health check.

 

So if your in your 50's, 60's, 70's your GP will still have to do it if requested but 75 and over your routine health check is kicked in to the long grass.

 

 

 

Boohoo, I guess; which seems to have been the answer to anyone who's been impacted in a negative way so far during the pandemic...unless they've caught Covid.

 

To say their health is of less importance after the approach taken throughout the pandemic is a complete brass neck imo.

 

Would he prefer we don't maximise the rollout of booster jags? 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Taffin

[Rocco_Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Boohoo, I guess; which seems to have been the answer to anyone who's been impacted in a negative way so far during the pandemic...unless they've caught Covid.

 

To say their health is of less importance after the approach taken throughout the pandemic is a complete brass neck imo.

 

Would he prefer we don't maximise the rollout of booster jags? 

 

He's entirely correct in the context of health checks. Why should a 44 year old, 54 year old 74 year old get one and not a 75 year old? Other than "because covid".

 

I think he would. I'd agree. Personally I don't see the benefit in create a backlog of health checks for those over 75 to give healthy under 40's a 3rd vaccination.

 

 

[Taffin]

Just now, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

He's entirely correct in the context of health checks. Why should a 44 year old, 54 year old 74 year old get one and not a 75 year old? Other than "because covid".

 

I think he would. I'd agree. Personally I don't see the benefit in create a backlog of health checks for those over 75 to give healthy under 40's a 3rd vaccination.

 

 

 

Because unfortunately we can't do everything all at once with the resources available to us. Maybe if we invested more in healthcare and didn't force a lot of the staff to leave due to Brexit we'd be able to. That's not the Tory modus operandi though...yet people vote for them and Brexit.

 

They're experiencing themselves (for once) exactly what they vote for. Personally if anyone has to lose out then I'm all for it being the demographic who votes in a fashion that facilitates it.

 

So yeh, boohoo from me.

 

 

[Rocco_Jambo]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Because unfortunately we can't do everything all at once with the resources available to us. Maybe if we invested more in healthcare and didn't force a lot of the staff to leave due to Brexit we'd be able to. That's not the Tory modus operandi though...yet people vote for them and Brexit.

 

They're experiencing themselves (for once) exactly what they vote for. Personally if anyone has to lose out then I'm all for it being the demographic who votes in a fashion that facilitates it.

 

So yeh, boohoo from me.

 

 

 

Brexit...Tories....the man on the moon.

 

There was me thinking you may actually be able to provide some credible argument for removing health services to the over 75's who we have spent the last 20 months protecting so that boosters can be provided to a lot of people who don't even need them.

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

Brexit...Tories....the man on the moon.

 

There was me thinking you may actually be able to provide some credible argument for removing health services to the over 75's who we have spent the last 20 months protecting so that boosters can be provided to a lot of people who don't even need them.

 

 

What's more credible than giving people what they vote for? 

 

What, it's only meant to be the poor and the young who get shafted? 

 

[Rocco_Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What's more credible than giving people what they vote for? 

 

What, it's only meant to be the poor and the young who get shafted? 

 

 

Maybe the over 75's could get some sort of digital certificate with what they voted for on it allowing them access to certain health services depending on what they voted for?

 

You would maybe have some sort of valid point trying to put this down to a specific political party if all the other major political parties in the UK were not at least, and in some cases more, as blinkered by covid as the tories.

[Captain Sausage]

14 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Because unfortunately we can't do everything all at once with the resources available to us. Maybe if we invested more in healthcare and didn't force a lot of the staff to leave due to Brexit we'd be able to. That's not the Tory modus operandi though...yet people vote for them and Brexit.

 

They're experiencing themselves (for once) exactly what they vote for. Personally if anyone has to lose out then I'm all for it being the demographic who votes in a fashion that facilitates it.

 

So yeh, boohoo from me.

 

 

Cheers for posting this - couple of pretty interesting takes for me from this:

 

1. There’s very little difference in votes for ‘other’ parties across the age range. The difference is almost exclusively Labour versus Tory. I’d have assumed younger people would be more likely to vote for other parties but that seems to be a mistaken assumption on my part. 
 

2. Almost diametrically opposite results for those with degrees and those with GCSE or lower (70/30) on the Brexit vote. Undoubtedly will come across as an elitist comment but I’m not surprised that those with a higher level of education were more likely to see through the horseshit presented pre-vote. 

[Captain Sausage]

13 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

Brexit...Tories....the man on the moon.

 

There was me thinking you may actually be able to provide some credible argument for removing health services to the over 75's who we have spent the last 20 months protecting so that boosters can be provided to a lot of people who don't even need them.

 

Over 75s have been protected to an unprecedented level over the last 20 months. The entire global economy ground to a halt to protect them. 
 

Complaining about your health check being delayed while thousands of younger people are going to die as a direct result of the policies in place to protect the elderly resulting in late screening and diagnosis appointments for otherwise treatable cancers and conditions. 
 

Brass neck was mentioned earlier. And it’s spot on. 

[Taffin]

11 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

Maybe the over 75's could get some sort of digital certificate with what they voted for on it allowing them access to certain health services depending on what they voted for?

 

You would maybe have some sort of valid point trying to put this down to a specific political party if all the other major political parties in the UK were not at least, and in some cases more, as blinkered by covid as the tories.

 

When it comes to the zero-sum game of healthcare provision in the UK, I'm not only okay with, but in favour of those who seek to shrink the pot being the ones who lose out.

 

Now that it happened, rather than saying "hmmm maybe we shouldn't be such pricks at the polls in future", we've got some mouthpiece spouting fallacies that the over 75s are being shafted despite the last 20 months of folk bending over backwards for them (and other of course but predominantly).

 

Your first point is of course a fair one, and I feel for them who didn't vote with their peers, but unfortunately it's a democracy and we've all got to suffer the consequences of what the majority vote for.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Because unfortunately we can't do everything all at once with the resources available to us. Maybe if we invested more in healthcare and didn't force a lot of the staff to leave due to Brexit we'd be able to. That's not the Tory modus operandi though...yet people vote for them and Brexit.

 

They're experiencing themselves (for once) exactly what they vote for. Personally if anyone has to lose out then I'm all for it being the demographic who votes in a fashion that facilitates it.

 

So yeh, boohoo from me.

 

 

Not at all surprised about older voting for Brexit 

8 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Over 75s have been protected to an unprecedented level over the last 20 months. The entire global economy ground to a halt to protect them. 
 

Complaining about your health check being delayed while thousands of younger people are going to die as a direct result of the policies in place to protect the elderly resulting in late screening and diagnosis appointments for otherwise treatable cancers and conditions. 
 

Brass neck was mentioned earlier. And it’s spot on. 

Spot on . 

[Rocco_Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Over 75s have been protected to an unprecedented level over the last 20 months. The entire global economy ground to a halt to protect them. 
 

Complaining about your health check being delayed while thousands of younger people are going to die as a direct result of the policies in place to protect the elderly resulting in late screening and diagnosis appointments for otherwise treatable cancers and conditions. 
 

Brass neck was mentioned earlier. And it’s spot on. 

 

It's not a competition to try and find out who has been shafted more by societies blinkered covid above all else attitude over the last 20 months.

 

I'd also disagree that these have been the people we have been protecting for the last 20 months. A health check is usually for people who don't have pre-existing health conditions.

 

Over 75's with no underlying conditions only make up about a couple of per cent of deaths.

 

It's madness if the whole global economy was ground to a halt to protect these people.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I think he means Sweden followed that model when there was no vaccine and now we're following the Swedish model with the majority  vaccinated

Ok. Apologies if I misunderstood. But it doesn't affect the point I was making as my reply made clear. I think.

[Nucky Thompson]

An issue with one of the labs today.

1257 positive cases out of 22,975 tests that produced results.

That's still only 5.9% positivity.

14 deaths, 605 in hospital with 50 in ICU

Edited December 4, 2021 by Nucky Thompson

[Boab]

4 hours ago, Victorian said:

Jair Bolsonaro has been saying that the vaccines have been giving people AIDS in the UK.  Helpful.

He's refused to get all vaccines also.

Hopefully an early Christmas present in the post for this twat !

[Jeff]

22 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

An issue with one of the labs today.

1257 positive cases out of 22,975 tests that produced results.

That's still only 5.9% positivity.

14 deaths, 605 in hospital with 50 in ICU

 

First time I've seen the numbers in a while. Looking very encouraging

[Footballfirst]

5 minutes ago, Steak said:

 

First time I've seen the numbers in a while. Looking very encouraging

Don't rely on today's case numbers due to Lab processing issues. They are probably around 1,000 out.

[Jeff]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Don't rely on today's case numbers due to Lab processing issues. They are probably around 1,000 out.

 

Hospital numbers are way down on a month ago. Can't imagine they're included in a processing issue

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Steak said:

 

First time I've seen the numbers in a while. Looking very encouraging

Yea you really notice the improvements when not focussing on the stats every day. It’s been really refreshing reading them and finding out the lower levels . 

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yea you really notice the improvements when not focussing on the stats every day. It’s been really refreshing reading them and finding out the lower levels . 

 

In other words red was an arsehole 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Steak said:

 

In other words red was an arsehole 

No not at all ! The daily stats had their use but some over analysed them every single day and I think we are able to see a clearer picture on weekly stats . There was not very noticeable movement each day to really make any realistic assessment as such I felt . 

Edited December 4, 2021 by JamesM48

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No not at all ! The daily stats had their use but some over analysed them every single day and I think we are able to see a clearer picture on weekly stats . There was not very noticeable movement each day to really make any realistic assessment as such I felt . 

 

Was just joking don't worry

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Steak said:

 

Was just joking don't worry

👍

[Jambo_jim2001]

Mate sent me this website..richplanet.net 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

Over 75s have been protected to an unprecedented level over the last 20 months. The entire global economy ground to a halt to protect them. 
 

Complaining about your health check being delayed while thousands of younger people are going to die as a direct result of the policies in place to protect the elderly resulting in late screening and diagnosis appointments for otherwise treatable cancers and conditions. 
 

Brass neck was mentioned earlier. And it’s spot on. 

I  am not sure the 20000 or so old people who died as a result of Covid patients being dumped into care homes were protected much. 

[Francis Albert]

To expand a bit the response to Covid was not all about protecting the old. Protecting the NHS was about protecting everyone against a collapse of the service. Some of that in retrospect meant sacrificing many old people. 

As an older person I think far too much resource is spent on prolonging life. The projections of future life expectancies are frightening. More priority should be given to younger  people and indeed to people in countries where life expectancy is half what it is in developed countries like ours. 

However the idea that the way people or age groups vote should be a factor in allocation of resources is obscene.

[Captain Sausage]

53 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I  am not sure the 20000 or so old people who died as a result of Covid patients being dumped into care homes were protected much. 

I think generally stating the reaction to the pandemic has been to protect the elderly is pretty fair. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Captain Sausage

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

I think generally stating the reaction to the pandemic has been to protect the elderly is pretty fair. 

Part of the reaction yes and at that level pretty fair statement.  But the post I replied to went further than that. My later point is that there is generally a disproportionate amount of resource devoted to keeping old people alive. But when every death of an 80 or 90 year old with serious underlying  health problems is reported as a tragedy and many prompt a long "Taken by the virus" type piece in the media what would you expect governments' and politicians generally to do? 

[Captain Sausage]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Part of the reaction yes and at that level pretty fair statement.  But the post I replied to went further than that. My later point is that there is generally a disproportionate amount of resource devoted to keeping old people alive. But when every death of an 80 or 90 year old with serious underlying  health problems is reported as a tragedy and many prompt a long "Taken by the virus" type piece in the media what would you expect governments' and politicians generally to do? 

Fully agreed. It’s a political hot potato - anyone who said a 99 year olds life is not worth the same as a 1 year old would be pilloried, but the reality is that a younger life is generally worth more than an older one. 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

18 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Fully agreed. It’s a political hot potato - anyone who said a 99 year olds life is not worth the same as a 1 year old would be pilloried, but the reality is that a younger life is generally worth more than an older one. 

Totally correct 

[The Real Maroonblood]

22 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Fully agreed. It’s a political hot potato - anyone who said a 99 year olds life is not worth the same as a 1 year old would be pilloried, but the reality is that a younger life is generally worth more than an older one. 

I’ll pass that on to my mother who is 94 just to cheer her up..

[Victorian]

That's actually a valid bit of societal and economic thought that has been considered for a long time.  Bit of a moral and emotive minefield.  One for the ethics committees and think tanks.

[joondalupjambo]

19 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I’ll pass that on to my mother who is 94 just to cheer her up..

It is funny how everyone is different in relation to this.  My mum is 93 and her view is that I have lived my life and would not want all the effort, resources and time spent saving it when young people with illnesses where NHS services can perhaps save them need to be addressed.  Her rationale is why keep me propped up for a year or two when a young person can perhaps be given decades more time.

Not saying all 90 year old's think like that, and certainly not putting you mother in that category but I wonder how many feel that way when asked?  We all assume we have the answers but do we? 

Obviously I want my mum to live forever.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

It is funny how everyone is different in relation to this.  My mum is 93 and her view is that I have lived my life and would not want all the effort, resources and time spent saving it when young people with illnesses where NHS services can perhaps save them need to be addressed.  Her rationale is why keep me propped up for a year or two when a young person can perhaps be given decades more time.

Not saying all 90 year old's think like that, and certainly not putting you mother in that category but I wonder how many feel that way when asked?  We all assume we have the answers but do we? 

Obviously I want my mum to live forever.

I often have wondered what the covid experience must be like for those who have elderly parents. I mean over 80 plus. It must have been an awful stress. 

 

[Don Dan]

Bloody nonsense. By all accounts the symptoms are mild. 
 

All international arrivals to the UK will again be required to take pre-departure COVID-19 tests to tackle the spread of the new Omicron variant, the health secretary has announced.

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Bloody nonsense. By all accounts the symptoms are mild. 
 

All international arrivals to the UK will again be required to take pre-departure COVID-19 tests to tackle the spread of the new Omicron variant, the health secretary has announced.

More racketeering !

Great !

 

[joondalupjambo]

27 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I often have wondered what the covid experience must be like for those who have elderly parents. I mean over 80 plus. It must have been an awful stress. 

 

Our problem is that my mum, my wife and myself are all way too pragmatic and have not really worried about it.  We live in the country, loved the lock downs and keep ourselves to ourselves in the main anyway.  We are lucky and have gardens so have that benefit as be well. Day to day life is fine. We are extremely lucky.  Now I think we will be way different from the majority with parents over 80.  Just a guess here but nobody can be as daft as us with our way of thinking😄

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Our problem is that my mum, my wife and myself are all way too pragmatic and have not really worried about it.  We live in the country, loved the lock downs and keep ourselves to ourselves in the main anyway.  We are lucky and have gardens so have that benefit as be well. Day to day life is fine. We are extremely lucky.  Now I think we will be way different from the majority with parents over 80.  Just a guess here but nobody can be as daft as us with our way of thinking😄

" loving the lockdowns? ? ah ok ..... However you seem to live a sedentary life so it clearly didn't have much of an impact on you as us younger party animals...

[joondalupjambo]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

" loving the lockdowns? ? ah ok ..... However you seem to live a sedentary life so it clearly didn't have much of an impact on you as us younger party animals...

No cars, peace and quiet, birds chirping, no planes in the sky, less pollution, all in all no bad at all😄

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

No cars, peace and quiet, birds chirping, no planes in the sky, less pollution, all in all no bad at all😄

I’m more of a city person . I like the countryside for a weekend now and then though . Sounds a lovely lifestyle you have . 

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

No cars, peace and quiet, birds chirping, no planes in the sky, less pollution, all in all no bad at all😄

You could always feck off to a desert island 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

No cars, peace and quiet, birds chirping, no planes in the sky, less pollution, all in all no bad at all😄

 

Go out for walks as many times as you liked as well (well I did) and often only seen a few people, sometimes met nobody at all.

[joondalupjambo]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

You could always feck off to a desert island 

Where do you think I am now!!!😄😄😄👍

Edited December 4, 2021 by joondalupjambo

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Bloody nonsense. By all accounts the symptoms are mild. 
 

All international arrivals to the UK will again be required to take pre-departure COVID-19 tests to tackle the spread of the new Omicron variant, the health secretary has announced.

As posted earlier there has not according to the World Health Organisation.been one reported death from Omicron. Anywhere.

 

You wonder if an as yet unacknowledged symptom of Covid is perhaps insanity, extending  to those who have not had it.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

Fully agreed. It’s a political hot potato - anyone who said a 99 year olds life is not worth the same as a 1 year old would be pilloried, but the reality is that a younger life is generally worth more than an older one. 

The irony is that in many decisions by government a value of life calculation is normal, and age is the biggest factor in the equation. But that can't be acknowledged publicly and certainly not publicised.