Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Beni]

55 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I once knew a teen who acted as a reservoir of sorts...

 

I hope I'm not infringing anyone's copyright with this gif, but..

 

[Victorian]

Just now, jonnothejambo said:

 

The trouble is that half these clowns couldn't control their own pish and the other half are even worse.

 

Stevie Wonder can see the narrative here. They must think we're all zipped up the back. 

 

Why are we at the top of the cases league whereas in Europe they are doing much better is a cause for concern? What are they doing there?

 

It has to be our behaviours.

 

 

It's also probably true that the UK is similarly replicating what happened in Israel.  Both countries were in the lead on the initial vaccine roll out.  There's undoubtedly been a diminishing immune protection that makes the boosters very important.  Mainland Europe will probably see the same effect.  

 

But yes,  behaviours and mandated measures must be part of it.  Scotland is doing quite a bit better per capita and one clear difference is the headline mandated measure that causes so much fuss.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

The trouble is that half these clowns couldn't control their own pish and the other half are even worse.

 

Stevie Wonder can see the narrative here. They must think we're all zipped up the back. 

 

Why are we at the top of the cases league whereas in Europe they are doing much better is a cause for concern? What are they doing there?

 

It has to be our behaviours.

 

And obesity ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

I hope I'm not infringing anyone's copyright with this gif, but..

 

I’ll waiver all rights ! 😂😂

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It's also probably true that the UK is similarly replicating what happened in Israel.  Both countries were in the lead on the initial vaccine roll out.  There's undoubtedly been a diminishing immune protection that makes the boosters very important.  Mainland Europe will probably see the same effect.  

 

But yes,  behaviours and mandated measures must be part of it.  Scotland is doing quite a bit better per capita and one clear difference is the headline mandated measure that causes so much fuss.  

Do you have the figures to suggest Scoatland is doing better? 

[Victorian]

Just now, The Maroon Pound said:

Do you have the figures to suggest Scoatland is doing better? 

 

Today.  2,700 cases in Scotland.  49,000 over the UK.

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Does anyone know how much they've scaled the NHS capacity up by since last year to deal with this winter? 

Ah the elephant in the room . The effectiveness of the NHS ! 

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Today.  2,700 cases in Scotland.  49,000 over the UK.

 

What do hospitalisations and deaths look like? I had a look on travelling tabby and getting the per capita hospitalisations by 'region' is alluding me. It looks as though more people are still dying in Scotland.

 

If the aim is preventing NHS pressure via hospitalisations, cases alone isn't a great metric. Or is it and I'm missing something?

 

Edit: more people per capita (regard the in bold)

Edited October 20, 2021 by Taffin

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Ah the elephant in the room . The effectiveness of the NHS ! 

 

I'm not bashing the NHS, or assuming the answer to my question. My only assumption is that when you have a squeeze on resource which you know will come around next year and you appear to have an open chequebook...you generally do something to increase capacity and not only use the limit demand lever. So I'm guessing we have a bigger 'bucket' this year before it's breached so to speak 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What do hospitalisations and deaths look like? I had a look on travelling tabby and getting the per capita hospitalisations by 'region' is alluding me. It looks as though more people are still dying in Scotland.

 

If the aim is preventing NHS pressure via hospitalisations, cases alone isn't a great metric. Or is it and I'm missing something?

 

Cases is always a good indicative metric.  There will always be a very close or almost identical correlation further down the line.

 

No political point is being offered.  I'm just pointing out those current infections.  2,700 vs 49,000.  Scotland is approx 8% of the population so the infections are approx 2/3rds of what a per capita share of 49,000 would be.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Victorian

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I'm not bashing the NHS, or assuming the answer to my question. My only assumption is that when you have a squeeze on resource which you know will come around next year and you appear to have an open chequebook...you generally do something to increase capacity and not only use the limit demand lever. So I'm guessing we have a bigger 'bucket' this year before it's breached so to speak 

Exactly . Bash the NHS if you want . It isn’t sacrosanct surely ! No institution funded by tax payers should be above scrutiny . 

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

Do you have the figures to suggest Scotland is doing better? 

Yes, at least in terms of cases.  For more than two thirds of the pandemic Scotland has reported a lower share of UK cases that its population share.

 

During September there were a few posters on here bemoaning the fact that Scotland's share of cases had increased above the UK rate.  However, that position reversed at the end of September with Scotland having reported less than the UK rate since then.  Over the last week Scotland has reported 5.6% of UK cases, despite having 8.15% of the population. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Best get the Advocaat and lemonade in, then.  

 

Dick? 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Cases is always a good indicative metric.  There will always be a very close or almost identical correlation further down the line.

 

No political point is being offered.  I'm just pointing out those current infections.  2,700 vs 49,000.  Scotland is approx 8% of the population so the infections are approx 2/3rds of what a per capita share of 49,000 would be.

 

I wasn't inferring you were making a political point, or at least not intentionally, sorry if it came over that way.

 

I was just meaning 'better' is dependent on what your trying to achieve. If the aim is reducing deaths and hospitalisations then currently England appears to be doing better on deaths, and it's somewhat opaque on hospitalisations. They are however doing worse on cases, but if England has a disproportionately small number of youngsters vaccinated there's no guarantee that will wash through to proportionately increased hospitalisations and deaths. Who your cases resides in is still a major driver of what their outcomes are (?). That's an open question to anyone, not aimed at you to answer for me 👍

[Footballfirst]

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What do hospitalisations and deaths look like? I had a look on travelling tabby and getting the per capita hospitalisations by 'region' is alluding me. It looks as though more people are still dying in Scotland.

 

If the aim is preventing NHS pressure via hospitalisations, cases alone isn't a great metric. Or is it and I'm missing something?

 

Edit: more people per capita (regard the in bold)

Scotland is currently averaging 19-20 deaths per day. It has plateaued at that level throughout October.  The UK daily average is now 136 per day, so Scotland currently accounts for 14% of the UK deaths, which is a fair bit higher than its population share.

 

Edit: over the duration of the pandemic Scotland has accounted for 6.5% of the deaths reported in the daily updates.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Taffin]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

Scotland is currently averaging 19-20 deaths per day. It has plateaued at that level throughout October.  The UK daily average is now 136 per day, so Scotland currently accounts for 14% of the UK deaths, which is a fair bit higher than its population share.

 

So when we talk about who's doing 'better' (which is daft as it's not a competition) why is better to have disproportionately low cases but disproportionately high deaths? Unless your aim is solely to have low case rates, which seems daft. If England has a reservoir of unvaccinated youngsters skewing their case rate, is that an issue given they will likely not result in pressure on the NHS via hospitalisation in the main? 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I wasn't inferring you were making a political point, or at least not intentionally, sorry if it came over that way.

 

I was just meaning 'better' is dependent on what your trying to achieve. If the aim is reducing deaths and hospitalisations then currently England appears to be doing better on deaths, and it's somewhat opaque on hospitalisations. They are however doing worse on cases, but if England has a disproportionately small number of youngsters vaccinated there's no guarantee that will wash through to proportionately increased hospitalisations and deaths. Who your cases resides in is still a major driver of what their outcomes are (?). That's an open question to anyone, not aimed at you to answer for me 👍

 

There's always the associated,  time lagging outcomes from infections.  If one area remained in a 'better' position on infections from the overall total,  it follows that outcomes will track at a similar rate.  

Edited October 20, 2021 by Victorian

[luckydug]

Seems the stricter regime up here has been proved right AGAIN. 

[Boab]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

I’m just glad I’m a half glass full type of person really . 

So the health experts saying there should be a reintroduction of basic restrictions are wrong ?

You would need to have been lobotomized with a knitting needle to fail to see the advantages of bringing in their Plan B now to release some of the pressure on the NHS.

To say, it's a virus, it's unavoidable, is idiotic.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Boab

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Not everyone who gets sick with covid will need a dose.

 

Scotland will get its fair share of doses too

Ah ken that,  never said otherwise. 

 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

There's always the associated,  time lagging outcomes from infections.  If one area remained in a 'better' position on infections from the overall total,  it follows that outcomes will track at a similar rate.  

 

That's surely only if you infections are evenly spread across the risk categories. By the sounds of it, covid is rife in England in the low risk demographics. In time of course, that may change, equally it may not because if England's cases are skewed more in a demographic where they don't general get serious illness on the back of it then it won't rise proportionately...so long as you keep immunity via boosters in those more at risk demographics.

 

Just now though, if the aim is to keep people alive, I'm not sure how Scotland can be described as doing better. 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

So when we talk about who's doing 'better' (which is daft as it's not a competition) why is better to have disproportionately low cases but disproportionately high deaths? Unless your aim is solely to have low case rates, which seems daft. If England has a reservoir of unvaccinated youngsters skewing their case rate, is that an issue given they will likely not result in pressure on the NHS via hospitalisation in the main? 

I can't explain Scotland's recent higher death rate. 

 

More cases will ultimately lead to more hospitalisations followed by ICU and death for some.  I would expect England's hospitalisation rate to increase over the next month due to the recent upsurge in cases.

 

Scotland's share of hospital bed occupancy is also currently higher than the rUK (890 out of 7891 or 11.3%).

ICU use is however lower than the rUK (51 out of 850 or 6%).

 

All swings and roundabouts. Choose a stat that suits your argument and you can go off on one.

 

The first line of your post correctly highlights the stupidity of many arguments on here. "So when we talk about who's doing 'better' (which is daft as it's not a competition)"

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

So the health experts saying there should be a reintroduction of basic restrictions are wrong ?

You would need to have been lobotomized with a knitting needle to fail to see the advantages of bringing in their Plan B now to release some of the pressure on the NHS.

To say, it's a virus, it's unavoidable, idiotic.

 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I can't explain Scotland's recent higher death rate. 

 

More cases will ultimately lead to more hospitalisations followed by ICU and death for some.  I would expect England's hospitalisation rate to increase over the next month due to the recent upsurge in cases.

 

Scotland's share of hospital bed occupancy is also currently higher than the rUK (890 out of 7891 or 11.3%).

ICU use is however lower than the rUK (51 out of 850 or 6%).

 

All swings and roundabouts. Choose a stat that suits your argument and you can go off on one.

 

The first line of your post correctly highlights the stupidity of many arguments on here. "So when we talk about who's doing 'better' (which is daft as it's not a competition)"

 

👍👍

 

I hope you've not considered this an argument. I can be an argumentative so and so, but I've tried to save that for the vaccine passport thread as I actually really enjoy what I'd prefer to level as 'discussion' on this thread.

 

One day, I'll drop arguing entirely...but that day hasn't yet come 😂

[XB52]

Scotland's death rate remains stubbornly high and I wonder if the fact our death rates were much better than rUK earlier is affecting this, i.e. more at risk people survived up here and so we now have proportionally more at risk people. No idea if that makes sense. 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's surely only if you infections are evenly spread across the risk categories. By the sounds of it, covid is rife in England in the low risk demographics. In time of course, that may change, equally it may not because if England's cases are skewed more in a demographic where they don't general get serious illness on the back of it then it won't rise proportionately...so long as you keep immunity via boosters in those more at risk demographics.

 

Just now though, if the aim is to keep people alive, I'm not sure how Scotland can be described as doing better. 

 

I think the current outcomes figures can be explained because Scottish infections were higher as a share for a short time.  The Scottish figures are 'better' at an approximate rate of 30 to 35% on current infections.  It should follow on to outcomes in the weeks to come.  Other variables like your examples may well have an effect as well.

[Seymour M Hersh]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You get as much dick in you as you can handle, Seymour. I’ll stick to the Warninks. 

 

The ex hun manager. 

[CJGJ]

There has to be another push to be vaccinated at all levels.

 

Second vaccinations, first vaccinations for the young, vaccinations for those who up to now have avoided taking any action despite the information available to all.

 

We then need the booster programme rolled out to help those deemed most at risk

 

Certain other things can be done such as mask wearing in shops and on public transport, in schools, colleges etc

 

I presume we will have information more readily available about the spread in relation to night clubs, clubs,pubs and this needs to be taken account of.

 

Lets face it government too often is looking after it's reputation and not the health of it's people.......we need to err on the side of caution not on the side of opening up until we are through winter 21/22.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Today.  2,700 cases in Scotland.  49,000 over the UK.

These cannot be true, What's the chances of both figures being in round numbers

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

The most vulnerable ie the vulnerable double vaccinated will Be near top of the list , just  below those who can’t get the vaccine due to variety of reasons . 

Just a few slides to push people into going for a booster. The death slide summed everything up, a fraction of those that occurred in the last wave.

Javid put the NHS Confederation in their place with their perpetual claims about being "overwhelmed ". There are a fifth of the patients in hospital, compared to Jan, despite higher cases ..and they managed to cope then.

Hopefully,  with people getting back to normal, immunity levels are building up against all viruses. 

Would anybody be surprised if flu doesn't make the much trailed re-apperance in anything like the "scary" form the scientific community and the media are shouting about??

 

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

There has to be another push to be vaccinated at all levels.

 

Second vaccinations, first vaccinations for the young, vaccinations for those who up to now have avoided taking any action despite the information available to all.

 

We then need the booster programme rolled out to help those deemed most at risk

 

Certain other things can be done such as mask wearing in shops and on public transport, in schools, colleges etc

 

I presume we will have information more readily available about the spread in relation to night clubs, clubs,pubs and this needs to be taken account of.

 

Lets face it government too often is looking after it's reputation and not the health of it's people.......we need to err on the side of caution not on the side of opening up until we are through winter 21/22.

 

The problem is the usual story of enforcement or lack of.

 

From my personal experience when I'm travelling on the bus or in shops there is a big increase in people not wearing masks, with no exemption lanyards either.  The problem seems to be the complacency added to by the ignorant.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Just a few slides to push people into going for a booster. The death slide summed everything up, a fraction of those that occurred in the last wave.

Javid put the NHS Confederation in their place with their perpetual claims about being "overwhelmed ". There are a fifth of the patients in hospital, compared to Jan, despite higher cases ..and they managed to cope then.

Hopefully,  with people getting back to normal, immunity levels are building up against all viruses. 

Would anybody be surprised if flu doesn't make the much trailed re-apperance in anything like the "scary" form the scientific community and the media are shouting about??

 

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the flu makes a comeback and “ overwhelms” the under whelming NHS . Yes Jabid certainly put them in their place .  A measured , realistic , non panicking and relatively positive statement . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The problem is the usual story of enforcement or lack of.

 

From my personal experience when I'm travelling on the bus or in shops there is a big increase in people not wearing masks, with no exemption lanyards either.  The problem seems to be the complacency added to by the ignorant.

You don’t need to Carry any exemptions landyards ! However maybe a triangle type badge of some sort may be more to some people’s taste . 

[scott herbertson]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

That's surely only if you infections are evenly spread across the risk categories. By the sounds of it, covid is rife in England in the low risk demographics. In time of course, that may change, equally it may not because if England's cases are skewed more in a demographic where they don't general get serious illness on the back of it then it won't rise proportionately...so long as you keep immunity via boosters in those more at risk demographics.

 

Just now though, if the aim is to keep people alive, I'm not sure how Scotland can be described as doing better. 

 

 

Over the course of the pandemic Scotland has had far fewer deaths per capita than England

 

It is slightly higher daily now, but scotland had a bulge in cases when schools went back and these were higher than in England . English schools went back later and they now have higher cases than scotland . It is likely Scotland will soon have fewer deaths per capita than England - it's worth looking at the Travelling Tabby to see the trends which make this clearer.

 

Over the course of the pandemic excess deaths and deaths per capita seem to be the best measure to me of how 'well' countries are doing in terms of health outcomes (they might bee doing differently on economic measures if they are less strict on health measures)

 

Re the new treatments it should be pointed out they haven't been approved for use yet so it is a bit of a premature announcement, but good news if they work, for the most vulnerable groups.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, jonesy said:

You get as much dick in you as you can handle, Seymour. I’ll stick to the Warninks. 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

 

 

I thought it had been a bit quiet from a few posters who had recently joined. Looks like they have been keeping busy though.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

37 minutes ago, The Maroon Pound said:

These cannot be true, What's the chances of both figures being in round numbers

Friends of my parents,  both in their 80s, went to Ingliston to get their flu/booster a couple of weeks back. 2 days later, the wife was getting cold like symptoms so both got tested and, boom, both tested positive. Neither was bed ridden so, the usual winter sniffles that passed in a couple of days.

Neither go out much and had avoided Covid for 18 months.

Yet, they get their jab combo and suddenly they test positive. Aye right!. Who really knows what the PCR tests are picking up in practice.

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

That's surely only if you infections are evenly spread across the risk categories. By the sounds of it, covid is rife in England in the low risk demographics. In time of course, that may change, equally it may not because if England's cases are skewed more in a demographic where they don't general get serious illness on the back of it then it won't rise proportionately...so long as you keep immunity via boosters in those more at risk demographics.

 

Just now though, if the aim is to keep people alive, I'm not sure how Scotland can be described as doing better. 

 

you are right mate - depends who’s got covid what happens next

 

if the entire of the nation was aged below 30 we could all have it and probably have lower hospitalisation / deaths than a normal real-world country

 

the more who have it the more probably end up getting tho so obviously other associated factors at play too

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by MoncurMacdonaldMercer

[Gizmo]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Friends of my parents,  both in their 80s, went to Ingliston to get their flu/booster a couple of weeks back. 2 days later, the wife was getting cold like symptoms so both got tested and, boom, both tested positive. Neither was bed ridden so, the usual winter sniffles that passed in a couple of days.

Neither go out much and had avoided Covid for 18 months.

Yet, they get their jab combo and suddenly they test positive. Aye right!. Who really knows what the PCR tests are picking up in practice.

 

 

 

Somebody used the wrong login...

[Nucky Thompson]

2 hours ago, luckydug said:

Seems the stricter regime up here has been proved right AGAIN. 

Stricter regime and more deaths since. Hmmmmmm OK then 

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

you are right mate - depends who’s got covid what happens next

 

if the entire of the nation was aged below 30 we could all have it and probably have lower hospitalisation / deaths than a normal real-world country

 

the more who have it the more probably end up getting tho so obviously other associated factors at play too

 

 

Absolutely it's far more complex than I can fathom, regards the bit in bold though, last year that would have been (was?) a massive problem with people passing it to the more vulnerable. With the vaccine though and it's effectiveness at preventing serious illness I remain unconvinced that it will cause too much mayhem. Fingers crossed anyway 👍

[Victorian]

19 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

 

I thought it had been a bit quiet from a few posters who had recently joined. Looks like they have been keeping busy though.

 

 

Tbh,  I see these people being on hospital grounds and staff having to spend time dealing with them instead of normal business as harrassment.  They should be dealt with exactly the same as any other type of harrassment.  Escorted off the scene and warned off.  ****ing parasites.

[Des Lynam]

40 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

 

I thought it had been a bit quiet from a few posters who had recently joined. Looks like they have been keeping busy though.

 

The pope 
 

 

[Beni]

42 minutes ago, LMc said:

 

 

I thought it had been a bit quiet from a few posters who had recently joined. Looks like they have been keeping busy though.

 

 

"The Pope is head of the businesses across the world, and he stripped your liability in 2013".

 

 

[Taffin]

I reckon these 'mentalists' are a form of false flag. Planted by government and big pharma to make the idea of questioning what's happening seem as though you're associated with these types so the masses will just ridicule and condemn you rather than listen to your concerns.

 

 

I don't believe that, but it would make a good conspiracy theory imo.

[Dennis Reynolds]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I reckon these 'mentalists' are a form of false flag. Planted by government and big pharma to make the idea of questioning what's happening seem as though you're associated with these types so the masses will just ridicule and condemn you rather than listen to your concerns.

 

 

I don't believe that, but it would make a good conspiracy theory imo.

 

 

[JimmyCant]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not bashing the NHS, or assuming the answer to my question. My only assumption is that when you have a squeeze on resource which you know will come around next year and you appear to have an open chequebook...you generally do something to increase capacity and not only use the limit demand lever. So I'm guessing we have a bigger 'bucket' this year before it's breached so to speak 

I’m not sure about resources in the wider NHS. Whether the bucket is bigger now than it was a year ago, I doubt it. What I can say is that there is a vaccinator crisis and they have less than half the number of vaccinators now than they had 6 months ago. In Lothian they have no mass facility for vaccination in Edinburgh city since EICC closed. All the mass venues are out of town and many people in their 80’s and 90’s have been sent miles away (40 miles in some cases)to Ingliston where the wait times have gone through the roof. Most of the minor venues in Edinburgh are open one day a week for flu and booster. The appointment system is at breaking point and isn’t fit for purpose. The housebound list is huge and people on that list face a wait of at least 6 weeks to get flu and booster, depending on their postcode.The rescheduling helpline is on its knees after a 25% natural staff wastage loss was not replaced. The same number of people in the vulnerable groups that took 4 months to get through completely for Covid 1st jabs, including housebound are expected by government to be done in 8 weeks. It’s operationally impossible at current staff and venue levels to do that and everyone at the top of the NHS knows it but hide under the bed hoping it goes away. In short, the rollout of Covid 1&2 was a comparative roaring success. Certification, Flu and Booster are a complete and utter shameful disaster.

[ri Alban]

AZ vaccine must be a pile of shite. Pfiser helluva/hell of a lot better.

Edited October 21, 2021 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

100, 000 daily cases of this fecking thing predicted by the middle/end of November.

[ri Alban]

And so it begins. Morocco the first of many to ban Brits from coming to their country.