Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[DB-14]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

57 deaths is awful high. 

The measurement is a joke. Anyone who’s tested positive in past 28 days.

 

History will laugh at this nonsense, you can have terminal cancer but you contract Covid in the ward and that’s how your death is registered.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said:

The measurement is a joke. Anyone who’s tested positive in past 28 days.

 

History will laugh at this nonsense, you can have terminal cancer but you contract Covid in the ward and that’s how your death is registered.

A fair call. My aunt died on Xmas Day. She was a big woman who had gone into hospital with heart failure and was dying. She contracted Covid in the coronary care unit in Antrim Area Hospital. Result: Covid death.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said:

The measurement is a joke. Anyone who’s tested positive in past 28 days.

 

History will laugh at this nonsense, you can have terminal cancer but you contract Covid in the ward and that’s how your death is registered.

Your right. I can imagine it being a history question in " Higher "  " Modern studies " or  history question,,

 

 

" What influences made the Scottish and British Govt pursue the policy of " lockdown" and why didn't they anticipate  or take into account  the effects  of this policy in the short term and long term might be for the population ?  15 points 

[GBJambo]

Just heard on the radio that sturgeon has said that restrictions could be in place over Christmas . Missed her lunchtime show anyone confirm ? 

[ArcticJambo]

Have you been stuck on an island off Japan for a bit?

 

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, GBJambo said:

Just heard on the radio that sturgeon has said that restrictions could be in place over Christmas . Missed her lunchtime show anyone confirm ? 

Restrictions will be in place until Boris says otherwise. At the end of the day, Sturgeon's hands will be tied

[Footballfirst]

@SteauaNeedarest and @Geoff Kilpatrick

 

The weekly NRS and ONS reports do record the difference between cases where Covid in mentioned on the death certificate and where Covid was the underlying cause of death, e.g.

 

NRS - all deaths in Scotland where Covid was mentioned, to the end of January 2021 - 8,604 

Deaths where Covid was deemed the underlying cause - 7,699

 

ONS - all deaths in England and Wales in 2021 where Covid was mentioned - 37,477

Deaths where Covid was deemed the underlying cause - 33,600

Edited February 18, 2021 by Footballfirst

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Restrictions will be in place until Boris says otherwise. At the end of the day, Sturgeon's hands will be tied

Yep.

[Gards]

2 hours ago, GBJambo said:

Just heard on the radio that sturgeon has said that restrictions could be in place over Christmas . Missed her lunchtime show anyone confirm ? 

Don't see or heard that being reported anywhere.  Provide the link or advise it's mistaken as I see others are already responding to that and in the world of fake news we don't need more.

[Gards]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Yep.

Nope - Scottish Government has full responsibility for health in Scotland....hence why she's been already been able to take difference stance in areas she has power over.

[Captain Slog]

10 minutes ago, Gards said:

Don't see or heard that being reported anywhere.  Provide the link or advise it's mistaken as I see others are already responding to that and in the world of fake news we don't need more.

Please provide the link, my house is currently in meltdown, never mind lockdown, if its true

 

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Gards said:

Nope - Scottish Government has full responsibility for health in Scotland....hence why she's been already been able to take difference stance in areas she has power over.

The SG may have the power, but they won't deviate too far from the situation down south.  The timing of easing restrictions, or numbers of people able to meet up will be the  the likeliest differences.

 

As an example, I cannot see any possibility of the SG being able to keep hospitality closed for anything more than two or three weeks after it has been opened up in England.  The same goes for international travel.  We are now in the run up to an election, so the SG won't be able to sustain a lock down while Westminster opens England up.

[Gards]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

The SG may have the power, but they won't deviate too far from the situation down south.  The timing of easing restrictions, or numbers of people able to meet up will be the  the likeliest differences.

 

As an example, I cannot see any possibility of the SG being able to keep hospitality closed for anything more than two or three weeks after it has been opened up in England.  The same goes for international travel.  We are now in the run up to an election, so the SG won't be able to sustain a lock down while Westminster opens England up.

Dont disagree but NI announced today lockdown until 1st April....don't see the seething on here about that?

 

And just for the record.  I'm not an SNP apologist, supporter or otherwise.  Just try to look at it from a neutral stance.

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Gards said:

Dont disagree but NI announced today lockdown until 1st April....don't see the seething on here about that?

 

While the rest of the UK remains in lock down there won't be too much grief.

 

However, when Boris outlines the direction of travel for England on Monday, you may well see some adaptation of positions among the devolved nations.

[Gards]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

While the rest of the UK remains in lock down there won't be too much grief.

 

However, when Boris outlines the direction of travel for England on Monday, you may well see some adaptation of positions among the devolved nations.

So trust Boris then.....no thanks! 🙂

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, Gards said:

So trust Boris then.....no thanks! 🙂

I'd trust Boris as much as I'd trust Donald Trump counting election votes.

 

However, the politics will drive what happens more than the science, despite what the politicians say.

[Gards]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I'd trust Boris as much as I'd trust Donald Trump counting election votes.

 

However, the politics will drive what happens more than the science, despite what the politicians say.

Unfortunately I completely agree with you.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Restrictions will be in place until Boris says otherwise. At the end of the day, Sturgeon's hands will be tied

Yep. And if she thinks she can drag this on while she obsesses about a "casedemic" then I've no doubt she will face the backlash from hell.  Fair enough, you can keep a track on the virus but certainly not at the expense of the population's health, lives and livelihoods.  Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated the justification for any restrictions will be no more than it would be during previous cold and flu seasons. Lockdown was a blunt instrument which, arguably, may have even helped in incubating the variants that we are seeing now. It's a not a new toy for politicians and scientists to use at their whim. 

[CJGJ]

Once we have vaccinated all those over 50 or at least over 65 with underlying conditions it will be time to make major steps forward re lockdown which was to help the NHS being overwhelmed which it no longer is

 

Decisions will now need to be made such as do we vaccinate all teachers and other groups and in which order.....dental treatment needs to be restarted for example

 

There will be a need or demand depending on your view for other options like pubs, cinemas, gymns and care must be taken so some restrictions would be expected initially but there will need to be some movement to open these facilities

 

However sorry to say experience shows some groups just will not listen and will take any step to 'freedom' and multiply it 10 fold....can we trust them ?...no,  so some restrictions need to stay in place for a few months afterwards

[Newton51]

8 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Once we have vaccinated all those over 50 or at least over 65 with underlying conditions it will be time to make major steps forward re lockdown which was to help the NHS being overwhelmed which it no longer is

 

Decisions will now need to be made such as do we vaccinate all teachers and other groups and in which order.....dental treatment needs to be restarted for example

 

There will be a need or demand depending on your view for other options like pubs, cinemas, gymns and care must be taken so some restrictions would be expected initially but there will need to be some movement to open these facilities

 

However sorry to say experience shows some groups just will not listen and will take any step to 'freedom' and multiply it 10 fold....can we trust them ?...no,  so some restrictions need to stay in place for a few months afterwards

The rumour is the jcvi will recommend going down the ages starting with 40-49. It’s a quicker process than trying to pick out key workers. Some dentists are working as vaccinators as well as emergency dental work

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Gards said:

Dont disagree but NI announced today lockdown until 1st April....don't see the seething on here about that?

 

And just for the record.  I'm not an SNP apologist, supporter or otherwise.  Just try to look at it from a neutral stance.

Just read that one of the reasons given was the risk of idiots getting together and getting smashed on St Paddy's Day.

[Shanks said no]

I'm not picking up any positive vibes from NS other than education. Her line of

 

“So, for now - and I really cannot emphasise this point strongly enough - please treat Monday’s important milestone as a return to education for children only, and not as a return to greater normality for the rest of us.”

 

really sent a chill through me. Its also being repeated in internal SG documents to other sectors. She may be forced to ease the lockdown by BJ but I expect everything to be delayed and done with a petted lip.

[Shanks said no]

2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

So in your view, NS can get forced to do things by Boris?

By proxy yes, she can delay and pontificate but she will eventually toe the line. If furlough is not available then NS will have no choice but to toe the UK line.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

Once we have vaccinated all those over 50 or at least over 65 with underlying conditions it will be time to make major steps forward re lockdown which was to help the NHS being overwhelmed which it no longer is

 

Decisions will now need to be made such as do we vaccinate all teachers and other groups and in which order.....dental treatment needs to be restarted for example

 

There will be a need or demand depending on your view for other options like pubs, cinemas, gymns and care must be taken so some restrictions would be expected initially but there will need to be some movement to open these facilities

 

However sorry to say experience shows some groups just will not listen and will take any step to 'freedom' and multiply it 10 fold....can we trust them ?...no,  so some restrictions need to stay in place for a few months afterwards

 

What about me and Mrs Saunders? Had to work all the way through the pandemic to make sure you can panic buy? Why the hell are key workers (not counting the NHS), not getting jabbed first? We're the ones making sure you can eat and wipe yer erse.

[Shanks said no]

1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

So do you think NS will be forced into a quicker route out of lockdown by Boris? is that what you are saying, 

 

Yes, NS is naturally cautious, often correctly and certainly much more caring and sensitive than the baffoon in WM. She will want to apply the brakes and slowly ease out of this. Boris on the other hand is much more cavalier and a typical Tory.

 

The mood music away from politics also appears to be changing. Couple of examples, my wife works in a hotel and they have been told to prepare the hotel some time in March for re-opening in April. Also Fringe by the Sea tickets are on sale for August. Business may just be taking a final punt but they appear to think the lockdown is ending. 

 

Just my opinion, probably out of utter desperation to return to some sort of normal life.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

Once we have vaccinated all those over 50 or at least over 65 with underlying conditions it will be time to make major steps forward re lockdown which was to help the NHS being overwhelmed which it no longer is

 

Decisions will now need to be made such as do we vaccinate all teachers and other groups and in which order.....dental treatment needs to be restarted for example

 

There will be a need or demand depending on your view for other options like pubs, cinemas, gymns and care must be taken so some restrictions would be expected initially but there will need to be some movement to open these facilities

 

However sorry to say experience shows some groups just will not listen and will take any step to 'freedom' and multiply it 10 fold....can we trust them ?...no,  so some restrictions need to stay in place for a few months afterwards

 

Did you miss my earlier question about both me and my Mrs being key workers? You seem to be be working on tosspot agenda for yourself.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

2 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Did you miss my earlier question about both me and my Mrs being key workers? You seem to be be working on tosspot agenda for yourself.

 

4 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Nicola Sturgeon should just be made President of the World, she is that good. No problems whatsoever.

Every decision in power has been perfect.

 

Rewrite all the history books, all the leadership books. In fact, start humanity from year zero. 

All your worlds belong to Nicola Sturgeon. 

 

No thanks. 

 

Certainly better than Boris

[Doctor FinnBarr]

2 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

 

Certainly better than Boris

Any sensible answers?

[1971fozzy]

Until all over 18’s are fully vaccinated I can’t see any pubs reopening. And football stadia until all are vaccinated. 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

5 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Not from you, blow hard.

 

Grow up mate

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Fnarr

 

5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Not from you, blow hard.

Pathetic. 

[ri Alban]

Another weekend going down in lockdown. Not that many to go til party time. 

.

 

 

Good news about 40-49 as well. And a big Well Done on the vaccines @ WM/Holyrood/The Senedd/Stormont and all the heroes in the NHS, Care homes, The armed forces, volunteers and the Guinea pigs helping with the research. And the public have done really well too, all things considered. 

👍

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by ri Alban

[steve123]

Talk of all over 40s had first dose by end of March.

 

JCVI recommending continuing on age rather than profession.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, steve123 said:

Talk of all over 40s had first dose by end of March.

 

JCVI recommending continuing on age rather than profession.

I know I'm probably wrong, but teachers should be vaxxed pronto. Imo. 

Seems right if government are looking for full time schooling. 

[ri Alban]

Have the police/Fire Brigade been vaccinated? If not, why not. 

[Costanza]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yep. And if she thinks she can drag this on while she obsesses about a "casedemic" then I've no doubt she will face the backlash from hell.  Fair enough, you can keep a track on the virus but certainly not at the expense of the population's health, lives and livelihoods.  Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated the justification for any restrictions will be no more than it would be during previous cold and flu seasons. Lockdown was a blunt instrument which, arguably, may have even helped in incubating the variants that we are seeing now. It's a not a new toy for politicians and scientists to use at their whim. 

Where's the evidence for this?

 

 

 

[steve123]

20 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I know I'm probably wrong, but teachers should be vaxxed pronto. Imo. 

Seems right if government are looking for full time schooling. 

Yea I have to agree, I suppose part of the thinking may be that they get the most vulnerable as they come down through the age groups but by no means all.

[Enzo Chiefo]

20 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Where's the evidence for this?

 

 

 

There is no evidence as we can't prove a negative.  As I say though, "arguably", and it has been argued by some scientists, locking down and suppressing the virus has caused it to mutate in other ways. Not locking down may have resulted in it eventually weakening through mutation. We will never know. Lockdown though was a "fag packet" decision that has had grave consequences too, in terms of missed GP appointments and diagnoses,  cancelled cancer treatments and operations, mental health issues and the economic carnage. Not to mention the plight of dementia payments whose early deaths have been caused by lack of stimulation through human visits, contact etc. The daily coronavirus stats should also have been contextualised rather than used to cause fear and panic. How many people in the country know, for example, that 12k die every week of every year in the UK?

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

He is now using words like casedemic so

probably best just ignored now. 

That's the spirit Brian, toe the official line or risk being "cancelled". All that's missing is the @scotgov tag.

[Costanza]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There is no evidence as we can't prove a negative.  As I say though, "arguably", and it has been argued by some scientists, locking down and suppressing the virus has caused it to mutate in other ways. Not locking down may have resulted in it eventually weakening through mutation. We will never know. Lockdown though was a "fag packet" decision that has had grave consequences too, in terms of missed GP appointments and diagnoses,  cancelled cancer treatments and operations, mental health issues and the economic carnage. Not to mention the plight of dementia payments whose early deaths have been caused by lack of stimulation through human visits, contact etc. The daily coronavirus stats should also have been contextualised rather than used to cause fear and panic. How many people in the country know, for example, that 12k die every week of every year in the UK?

What scientists? Surely you have some citations to back these statements up?

Nothing you are saying changes my view that we should have pursued an elimination strategy last year, rather than opening up too early and resulting in further lockdowns.

Repeated lockdowns are hugely damaging, no-one disagrees with that. The question is how we make this one the last one and avoid another rise in cases and another lockdown.

[ri Alban]

8 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Teachers aren’t as much risk as most people think, they are a one of the least effected key workers groups. Supermarket, food manufacturing, police, bus drivers and the like appear at much more at risk. 
 

I think one of the reasons they are continuing with age as it is the single biggest predictor of how you deal with this thing. 
 

I think it logistics and prioritisation of key workers outside the NHS is the issue. 
 

I have to admit I’m genuinely amazed how quickly this roll is occurring. I have been very critical of the govts handling but I find in near impossible to criticise them over the rollout.
 

 

They should vax everyone at school. Quick and easy. 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 hours ago, Gards said:

Nope - Scottish Government has full responsibility for health in Scotland....hence why she's been already been able to take difference stance in areas she has power over.

OK, what happens if the UK government stops furlough and ends restrictions?

 

She can only do her own thing to a certain point, her hands are tied

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

Yes, NS is naturally cautious, often correctly and certainly much more caring and sensitive than the baffoon in WM.

Pretty sure A Salmond would disagree. She is a politician not a Saint. 

 

[Victorian]

52 minutes ago, Costanza said:

What scientists? Surely you have some citations to back these statements up?

Nothing you are saying changes my view that we should have pursued an elimination strategy last year, rather than opening up too early and resulting in further lockdowns.

Repeated lockdowns are hugely damaging, no-one disagrees with that. The question is how we make this one the last one and avoid another rise in cases and another lockdown.

 

He's off his chump.  Often comes out with this anti-science,  Teletubbies mumbo jumbo.  Lockdown bad mutation booo,  nae lockdown friendly mutation yaaay.

 

It's pseudo-scientific misinformation tailored to suit an agenda and a particular audience.  The gullible are easily snared.

[Governor Tarkin]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

He's off his chump.  Often comes out with this anti-science,  Teletubbies mumbo jumbo.  Lockdown bad mutation booo,  nae lockdown friendly mutation yaaay.

 

It's pseudo-scientific misinformation tailored to suit an agenda and a particular audience.  The gullible are easily snared.

 

Or he's keeping himself amused.

[steve123]

Wales looking at some no essential shops opening mid March (including hairdressers_  and self contained accommodation for Easter, Not sure how their figures compare Scotland but quicker than I thought anywhere would move.

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I know I'm probably wrong, but teachers should be vaxxed pronto. Imo. 

Seems right if government are looking for full time schooling. 

 

But children have a very low risk of passing on the virus. More risk in supermarkets. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

I think it is a term that is not only an insult to the hundreds of thousands who have died during this pandemic, but also those who have been working tirelessly to care for those in who require hospital treatment, also the work of the brilliant people who have brought us vaccines to help combat this disease. Not to mention the counties individual sacrifices we have all been asked to make, including those who's health and lives have been damaged by the knock on effects of Covid.

 

Calling it a casedemic is canceling the millions/billions of negative outcomes this has seen all over the world, it is the terminology of a denier.

You've clearly misunderstood my point Brian. I referred to Sturgeon "dragging this out while obsessing about a casedemic". Just to clarify, I am referring to "cases" post-vaccination programme, not to the cases that have already caused so many tragic deaths.  When the top 9 groups are vaccinated, those who account for 99% of deaths and 80% of hospitalisations, there will be no need for daily bulletins,  updates and obsessing about a casedemic. Monitor it by all means but lockdowns should not be utilised again.

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, Barack said:

Good. My barnet is becoming somewhat unruly now.

 

Mine is like a burst couch if untamed.  Brylcreem is saving me a bit.

[The Real Maroonblood]

13 minutes ago, Barack said:

Good. My barnet is becoming somewhat unruly now.

It’s not fair.

You’ve got hair 

😭