redjambo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, JamesM48 said: Not good . Still can’t seem to find a site which publishes ages etc of those who have died John on Travelling Tabby sometimes publishes the info on his Twitter. Yesterday, for example, he posted that 1 was in the 45-64 age bracket, 1 was in the 65-74 bracket, and the other 2 were in the 75-84 bracket. 1 was in Argyll & Bute, 1 was in East Renfrewshire, 1 was in North Lanarkshire, and 1 was in West Lothian. You should contact John and ask him where he gets this information. There's a contact link at the foot of his page. Let me know if you find out - I would be interested too, James. Regarding today's figures, a quick look at the per-NHS board data shows that the vast majority of the cases are in Greater Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Lothian. Everywhere else doesn't appear to give any real cause for concern, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, redjambo said: John on Travelling Tabby sometimes publishes the info on his Twitter. Yesterday, for example, he posted that 1 was in the 45-64 age bracket, 1 was in the 65-74 bracket, and the other 2 were in the 75-84 bracket. 1 was in Argyll & Bute, 1 was in East Renfrewshire, 1 was in North Lanarkshire, and 1 was in West Lothian. You should contact John and ask him where he gets this information. There's a contact link at the foot of his page. Let me know if you find out - I would be interested too, James. Regarding today's figures, a quick look at the per-NHS board data shows that the vast majority of the cases are in Greater Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Lothian. Everywhere else doesn't appear to give any real cause for concern, imo. Thanks Red ill Do that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Not good . Still can’t seem to find a site which publishes ages etc of those who have died https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview You can find it using PHS dashboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Brian Dundas said: Agreed, that is why I said sliding scale. I think our doc might towards the cash end, based only what he posts on here, which of course doesn't mean a thing. We only have his word that he is a doctor. Anybody can be anything they want on here. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview You can find it using PHS dashboard. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, jonesy said: Statistics like those seem to support the case for targeted, age, location and health-based shielding while opening up all other aspects of our everyday lives. Yes that’s why I feel it’s vital we get this information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 31 minutes ago, redjambo said: Scottish numbers: 3 October 2020 Summary 764 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 12.1% of newly tested individuals 4 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive 23 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 191 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 22,144 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results Not good at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Once again, has anyone asked those consigned to being shielded if they're happy to face the binary choice of shielding or to continue their activities under a new policy of much less suppression? Has anyone asked the age & health vulnerable working people who can still currently get by while suppression measures exist? Shield & open up was not, is not and is most unlikely to be as simplistic as always portrayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 19 hours ago, JamesM48 said: No stopped washing them a few months ago ! Keep up 😂 The number of people I've seen not using the hand sanitizers before entering shops is a worry though. They might be using their own though I suppose but not noticed many doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: The number of people I've seen not using the hand sanitizers before entering shops is a worry though. They might be using their own though I suppose but not noticed many doing so. I think you're right that a lot of people use their own, I never use the "communal" ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, jonesy said: Indeed. Lock up yer grannies, Covid's in town. I’m talking from purely selfish grounds as it makes me less anxious when I see it’s mainly older dying from it ( least includes admitting that ) however it also supports my argument about voluntary shielding of the older / vulnerable if they so wish and the rest of the population get on with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: The number of people I've seen not using the hand sanitizers before entering shops is a worry though. They might be using their own though I suppose but not noticed many doing so. I can’t do Anything about that ! Like someone else said they maybe carry their own . Not surprisingly I carry my bottle when I go out ! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, graygo said: I think you're right that a lot of people use their own, I never use the "communal" ones. I use my own but will take advantage of shop one's too to save having to buy too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: I can’t do Anything about that ! Like someone else said they maybe carry their own . Not surprisingly I carry my bottle when I go out ! 😂 Don't be embarrassed about taking precautions. It's not going to do you any harm being over-careful. If it's any consolation, I used antibacterial wipes on all my shopping until a few weeks ago (peace of mind for both me and my elderly mother) so your washing of your groceries wasn't over the top either. You were just being careful. We're all learning from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, jonesy said: Are we still supposed to be wearing them? Thought they were a bit outdated now. 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, redjambo said: Don't be embarrassed about taking precautions. It's not going to do you any harm being over-careful. If it's any consolation, I used antibacterial wipes on all my shopping until a few weeks ago (peace of mind for both me and my elderly mother) so your washing of your groceries wasn't over the top either. You were just being careful. We're all learning from this. Cheers ! Yeah it helped me through an anxious period . Yes a see a few people out snd about at cafes / restaurants with their own bottles so I’m not the only one . You just don’t know when you get served a coffee who the server has just served or what precautions they take so once I get my coffee I just drink it without touching my phone etc then once I’ve drunk it use my sanitizer to Clean my hands . No big deal , do the same with food I eat in restaurants etc Edited October 3, 2020 by JamesM48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, graygo said: I think you're right that a lot of people use their own, I never use the "communal" ones. I find a lot of them leave your hands sticky, hence why I'll use my own which I know doesn't. I now tend to carry a bottle about with me, except when out for a walk and I know I won't be touching anything, like gates etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: I can’t do Anything about that ! Like someone else said they maybe carry their own . Not surprisingly I carry my bottle when I go out ! 😂 That is what I said. It is annoying how these things have jumped in price though. I buy one in Superdrug which has gone up by quite a bit in the last month, supply and demand I suppose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, redjambo said: Don't be embarrassed about taking precautions. It's not going to do you any harm being over-careful. If it's any consolation, I used antibacterial wipes on all my shopping until a few weeks ago (peace of mind for both me and my elderly mother) so your washing of your groceries wasn't over the top either. You were just being careful. We're all learning from this. I have used antibacterial wipes on the handles of my bins for over a year now, ever since I was bringing my bucket in and there was something sticky on the handle, obviously it must have been something on the binman's gloves. Thinking about it the binmen touch hundreds of bins and then they touch yours, goodness knows what germs are on their gloves, that's why I clean the handles nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, redjambo said: Don't be embarrassed about taking precautions. It's not going to do you any harm being over-careful. If it's any consolation, I used antibacterial wipes on all my shopping until a few weeks ago (peace of mind for both me and my elderly mother) so your washing of your groceries wasn't over the top either. You were just being careful. We're all learning from this. I still give tins and glass items a wipe with an antibacterial/ antiviral wipe before putting them away. It is a remote chance any virus is on the surface but what's the harm in doing so anyway, we use these things on work tops anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: That is what I said. It is annoying how these things have jumped in price though. I buy one in Superdrug which has gone up by quite a bit in the last month, supply and demand I suppose! Yeah best to bulk buy them just now ! Least it’s not bog rolls lol I bought 3 of the bottles from Tesco’s they were under £2 each but they also sell a larger bottle which is about £7 which u can top up the smaller bottles with . Some unscrupulous Places are selling “ sanitizer “ which isn’t the right stuff ( over 70% alcohol) like the Carex stuff Edited October 3, 2020 by JamesM48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 hour ago, luckydug said: We only have his word that he is a doctor. Anybody can be anything they want on here. 🤔 This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: This. Wouldn’t trust anyone claiming to be a doctor and not supporting all the rules and guidelines in place for public health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Yeah best to bulk buy them just now ! Least it’s not bog rolls lol I bought 3 of the bottles from Tesco’s they were under £2 each but they also sell a larger bottle which is about £7 which u can top up the smaller bottles with . Some unscrupulous Places are selling “ sanitizer “ which isn’t the right stuff ( over 70% alcohol) like the Carex stuff Yes, you have to watch out for the dodgy stuff. "Gel" isn't always the same thing. The advice is that sanitising gel needs to be greater than 60% alcohol by volume to be effective. https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/04/hand-hygiene-soap-and-sanitiser-gel-what-you-need-to-know/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Yeah best to bulk buy them just now ! Least it’s not big rolls lol I bought 3 of the bottles from Tesco’s they were under £2 each but they also sell a larger bottle which is about £7 which u can top up the smaller bottles with . Sond unscrupulous Places are selling “ sanitizer “ which isn’t the right stuff ( over 70% alcohol) like the Carex stuff It is the alcohol that kills non bacterial viruses such as covid, not things like Carex. People need to know that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said: Wouldn’t trust anyone claiming to be a doctor and not supporting all the rules and guidelines in place for public health True ! Doesn't bother me if he is pretenting to be a doctor as much as it bothers me if he is a doctor. 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: It is the alcohol that kills non bacterial viruses such as covid, not things like Carex. People need to know that! Yes that’s why I pointed that out . Some shops are chancers regarding this . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I clean my hands before and after I enter any shop of any kind, with my own hand sanitiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, ri Alban said: I clean my hands before and after I enter any shop of any kind, with my own hand sanitiser. Do you clean them once you've left too? If not, I'd recommend doing so. I tend to forget beforehand (I know, I know) but do try to do it once I've got back to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, Taffin said: Do you clean them once you've left too? If not, I'd recommend doing so. I tend to forget beforehand (I know, I know) but do try to do it once I've got back to the car. Sorry should have said use, not enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, jonesy said: Has anyone asked the kids whether they'd like their education messed around with? Has anyone asked the thousands of willing workers in the hospitality if they'd like their careers/jobs taken away by government decree? Has anyone asked the office workers if they'd like to be isolated at home instead of maintaining essential relationships F2F? Has anyone asked the next generation - as yet unborn - whether or not they would like to pay for the overblown 'tackling' of a virus which has proven to be far less deadly than was predicted by a handful of 'experts'? Has anyone asked the students whether or not they are happy to be vilified by the actions of a few of their peers? Has anyone asked people in the travel industry whether they'd like to see the sudden, government-sponsored collapse of their perfectly viable jobs? Has anyone asked the young couples who have had wedding plans postponed and/or cancelled whether they would like to put their lives on hold? So, no, nobody has asked the vulnerable whether or not they'd like to shield, but then again no one has asked the rest of the population whether they'd like to get screwed over by a simultaneously authoritarian and cowardly pair of governments. What exactly have you been screwed out of. Some folk have too high an opinion of their status in this world. The restrictions are for people like me, to be protected by idiots with the same attitude as you've just shown. Speed limits Drink drive Seat belts Abh Murder And every other law is to protect the innocent from the feck wits of society. DON'T BE A FECKWIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, jonesy said: Has anyone asked the kids whether they'd like their education messed around with? Has anyone asked the thousands of willing workers in the hospitality if they'd like their careers/jobs taken away by government decree? Has anyone asked the office workers if they'd like to be isolated at home instead of maintaining essential relationships F2F? Has anyone asked the next generation - as yet unborn - whether or not they would like to pay for the overblown 'tackling' of a virus which has proven to be far less deadly than was predicted by a handful of 'experts'? Has anyone asked the students whether or not they are happy to be vilified by the actions of a few of their peers? Has anyone asked people in the travel industry whether they'd like to see the sudden, government-sponsored collapse of their perfectly viable jobs? Has anyone asked the young couples who have had wedding plans postponed and/or cancelled whether they would like to put their lives on hold? So, no, nobody has asked the vulnerable whether or not they'd like to shield, but then again no one has asked the rest of the population whether they'd like to get screwed over by a simultaneously authoritarian and cowardly pair of governments. Well said exactly my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, ri Alban said: Sorry should have said use, not enter. I thought it was a bit thorough...though better safe than sorry I guess 😂😂 I need to up my game on the sanitising before entry tbf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8751389/Oxford-scientists-circuit-break-need-cycle-bad-data-bad-science.html Good article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Just now, Taffin said: I thought it was a bit thorough...though better safe than sorry I guess 😂😂 I need to up my game on the sanitising before entry tbf. 🤣 Sanitising ma hands both sides of the door. You could picture the shop workers given it. Is he daein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, jonesy said: I trust everyone using the antibacterial wipes etc to wipe everything down disposes of them in a manner that sees them being sent neither to landfill nor (despite the claims on the packets of them being flushable) into the sewer system. I mean, it would just be twit-esque to be saving yourself from Covid only to be killing the habitat in which we all have to live. But then again, given some of the sanctimonious shite on here about masks, I assume the board is populated by a bunch of freegan-vegan, zero waste, litter pickers who wouldn't dream of using a non-biodegradable product just for their own safety. You do what you like. Karma is usually a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, ri Alban said: 🤣 Sanitising ma hands both sides of the door. You could picture the shop workers given it. Is he daein. 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, jonesy said: Has anyone asked the kids whether they'd like their education messed around with? Has anyone asked the thousands of willing workers in the hospitality if they'd like their careers/jobs taken away by government decree? Has anyone asked the office workers if they'd like to be isolated at home instead of maintaining essential relationships F2F? Has anyone asked the next generation - as yet unborn - whether or not they would like to pay for the overblown 'tackling' of a virus which has proven to be far less deadly than was predicted by a handful of 'experts'? Has anyone asked the students whether or not they are happy to be vilified by the actions of a few of their peers? Has anyone asked people in the travel industry whether they'd like to see the sudden, government-sponsored collapse of their perfectly viable jobs? Has anyone asked the young couples who have had wedding plans postponed and/or cancelled whether they would like to put their lives on hold? So, no, nobody has asked the vulnerable whether or not they'd like to shield, but then again no one has asked the rest of the population whether they'd like to get screwed over by a simultaneously authoritarian and cowardly pair of governments. Exactly. Nobody has been asked as such about much. But it just seems a bit arbitrary to say to some people (not just pensioners as some seem to think) that they're now forced to make a decision about whether to shield or to continue with what they are able to do, but with much less virus suppression. I think suppression allows the maximum number of people to continue doing as much of their activities as is possible. The shield & open up theory pulls the rug out from under a hell of a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Victorian said: Once again, has anyone asked those consigned to being shielded if they're happy to face the binary choice of shielding or to continue their activities under a new policy of much less suppression? Has anyone asked the age & health vulnerable working people who can still currently get by while suppression measures exist? Shield & open up was not, is not and is most unlikely to be as simplistic as always portrayed. Shielding is only for those who want to. It's not case of "don't go out or Covid will get you". We did hear some real nonsensical advice given to shielders at the outset, " don't go into your garden but you CAN open your window". Really?😂. Despite the clear apocalyptic bias from the BBC and their regular ICU tours, I haven't yet heard the weather girl predict thal we will struck by a Covid wave coming in from the west. Anyone and everyone that sanitises, masks up and socially distances where possible, avoiding over crowded places will be at very little risk from.Covid, regardless of their age. Those who choose to shield are free to do that as some elderly people already do in winter, not going out in bad weather, avoiding icy pavements etc. The recorded cases since the outset still, after all this time, represent 0.5% of the Scottish population, mainly concentrated in institutional settings, care homes, food factories, hospitals, university campuses etc. We need a more nuanced approach , away from headline case figures, mostly asymptomatic of course and a more focussed approach of enforcing the existing rules and targetting the places in which it spreads. Lockdowns, circuit breaks etc are ridiculous and far more damaging to ithe nation's health and economic well being than Covid. Edited October 3, 2020 by Enzo Chiefo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, jonesy said: Yep. The Edinburgh Festival Fringe was a blast this year and I'm enjoying my new seat at Tynecastle this season. The kids' school trip back in April was so much fun they're doing another next week. And the rainbow-striped unicorns are interviewing everyone for new roles in their soon-to-be-opened magic fairy dust production centre starting Monday. Suppression of a virus means suppression of the vectors (i.e. us). It's cowardly and unfocused. Unless you are student...then it's focussed on you. Despite not being at serious risk from it 🤷🏻♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: It is the alcohol that kills non bacterial viruses such as covid, not things like Carex. People need to know that! People need to know that things like Carex are fine as long as the alcohol content is over 60%, which it is. From the article that @redjambo posted earlier Carex has one of the highest alcohol content. Edited October 3, 2020 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, jonesy said: Yep. The Edinburgh Festival Fringe was a blast this year and I'm enjoying my new seat at Tynecastle this season. The kids' school trip back in April was so much fun they're doing another next week. And the rainbow-striped unicorns are interviewing everyone for new roles in their soon-to-be-opened magic fairy dust production centre starting Monday. Suppression of a virus means suppression of the vectors (i.e. us). It's cowardly and unfocused. I'll ignore the hysterics. Suppression allows people to perform their daily activities like going to jobs. Using public transport, as many have to do. It allows older people at least some confidence to go out to supermarkets and other shops. There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people who work well into middle aged years or with health vulnerabilities. People in their 40s and 50s with health vulnerabilities who need to continue working to pay rent, mortgages and support families. A hell of a lot of people would be forced into a poor situation. We all know that lots of people have suffered terribly, in a variety of ways. I'm simply stating a case for a group of people who would be put in a poor dilemma if we moved to such a policy. I'm making an argument for these people while always aware that others have been badly affected. Shielding is not as simple as often portrayed. Saying it's an easy choice to shield is no better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 40 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Shielding is only for those who want to. It's not case of "don't go out or Covid will get you". We did hear some real nonsensical advice given to shielders at the outset, " don't go into your garden but you CAN open your window". Really?😂. Despite the clear apocalyptic bias from the BBC and their regular ICU tours, I haven't yet heard the weather girl predict thal we will struck by a Covid wave coming in from the west. Anyone and everyone that sanitises, masks up and socially distances where possible, avoiding over crowded places will be at very little risk from.Covid, regardless of their age. Those who choose to shield are free to do that as some elderly people already do in winter, not going out in bad weather, avoiding icy pavements etc. The recorded cases since the outset still, after all this time, represent 0.5% of the Scottish population, mainly concentrated in institutional settings, care homes, food factories, hospitals, university campuses etc. We need a more nuanced approach , away from headline case figures, mostly asymptomatic of course and a more focussed approach of enforcing the existing rules and targetting the places in which it spreads. Lockdowns, circuit breaks etc are ridiculous and far more damaging to ithe nation's health and economic well being than Covid. The point is that it is not an easy choice for a large swathe of society. There is much more complexity to it than an arbitrary offer to shield or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, graygo said: People need to know that things like Carex are fine as long as the alcohol content is over 60%, which it is. From the article that @redjambo posted earlier Carex has one of the highest alcohol content. Ah, hand gel I see. I was meaning those liquid soap things. Obviously I don't know my Carex from my elbow 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Victorian said: The point is that it is not an easy choice for a large swathe of society. There is much more complexity to it than an arbitrary offer to shield or not. I agree but my point is that vulnerable people don't need to be stuck in the house. Back in March, Covid was unknown, now we know that it is not as feared as it was. If everyone followed the rules, the virus would be eliminated but, unfortunately, they don't. Those who do follow the rules and take precautions will be at no more danger from Covid than from any other one of life's myriad risks. Thats all you can ask, we can't eliminate all risks conpletely so asking people to shield from Covid is not saving lives, it's preventing them from living. Govts need to start reining back on the fear factor and adopting a more targetted approach imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: I see where you are coming from, but feel like you're not seeing the bigger picture. Current measures are put in place because they can be easily measured, and are driven by fear. Optional shielding for those at risk, with socialist*-style support for those who need and opt-in, would be the most sensible approach. 'It’s better to die standing than to live on your knees.' EZ/VL *Only once Coconut and The Doc have an arm wrestle to decide the true nature of socialism. In an ideal world it could work. But just imagine the scale of the bureaucracy to deal with a system of benefits like that. Seems quite unweildy. Not dismissing it but think of the scale of the GP consultations to obtain a qualifying certificate of some kind. Then submissions of claims and supporting evidence, etc. But fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, jonesy said: So we get arbitrary lockdowns for everyone instead. If one of your kids catch a cold, do you make them all stay off school? Like I said, I am always aware of the effects of current policies. I'm just making an argument for the people who would be placed into difficulty by a shield and open up policy. It's an often suggested theory. I think it's right to point out that it would come with complexity that some people don't recognise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I agree but my point is that vulnerable people don't need to be stuck in the house. Back in March, Covid was unknown, now we know that it is not as feared as it was. If everyone followed the rules, the virus would be eliminated but, unfortunately, they don't. Those who do follow the rules and take precautions will be at no more danger from Covid than from any other one of life's myriad risks. Thats all you can ask, we can't eliminate all risks conpletely so asking people to shield from Covid is not saving lives, it's preventing them from living. Govts need to start reining back on the fear factor and adopting a more targetted approach imo There was a 70 yo guy interviewed on the news yesterday and he said he hadn't been out of his house since March 23rd ! Tragic. Those at risk can easily go out for walks surely? But I think the relentless fear mongering has done the trick it seems for this demograph. Still cant understand people wearing masks outside either. But that's their choice. I have now been asked to work in my office for a couple days next week. Im in two minds about it. Obviously concerned of safety risks but would be good to be back and have a change of scene and a sense of some normality. The problem is I shouldn't really need to go back in the office as I can most of my work easily from home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I agree but my point is that vulnerable people don't need to be stuck in the house. Back in March, Covid was unknown, now we know that it is not as feared as it was. If everyone followed the rules, the virus would be eliminated but, unfortunately, they don't. Those who do follow the rules and take precautions will be at no more danger from Covid than from any other one of life's myriad risks. Thats all you can ask, we can't eliminate all risks conpletely so asking people to shield from Covid is not saving lives, it's preventing them from living. Govts need to start reining back on the fear factor and adopting a more targetted approach imo Fair enough, but I can still think of several setting where potentially vulnerable people would face profoundly stressful and heightened risk with much less suppression. My argument is really that it's not an easy fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, redjambo said: Yes, you have to watch out for the dodgy stuff. "Gel" isn't always the same thing. The advice is that sanitising gel needs to be greater than 60% alcohol by volume to be effective. https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/04/hand-hygiene-soap-and-sanitiser-gel-what-you-need-to-know/ Yeah people just need to check the content on the bottles but there has definitely been some shops trying to flogg the normal Carex as usable for Covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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