General Election 2019

[151]

47 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Wont happen. Never does. "Dont trust a tory".

 

& its 29,000 nurses and then try to "convince" 21,000 to stay (which will be difficult as a fair whack of them will be foreigners...ironically).

 

Fair enough mate, missed that part.

[Whatever]

20 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I don't know enough about how it should work but, as long as Scotland stays staunchly SNP & away from Labour, Boris doesn't need to pay any attention to what the rebellious Scots have to say, does he?

 

As leader of the Unionist party, surely his brief is to keep the UK together and he's got the kind of majority that allows him to do that. Not that he's shown any concern of that nature over NI, but I don't see what he has to gain by cutting Scotland loose (if, indeed, that's what they choose). If Labour were strong, including in Scotland, I could get it; cut youse free and that's a big bag of Labour seats gone at the cost of only a handful of conservative ones. 

 

I don't understand why folk here are saying that indyref2 has become more likely.

Is it not the case that the Tories now have a clear mandate to deliver Brexit on the back of this election.

 

Yet the SNP received a bigger share of the vote in Scotland than the Tories did in the U.K.?

 

 

 

 

[jambos are go!]

The best way forward for Unionist supporters is another independence referendum to finally resolve the issue. The vote share last night broadly reflected the 55:45 result in the 2014 Referendum despite the S NP campaign for Unionist voters to LEND them their vote to reject Brexit.

 

We have nothing to fear from confronting seperatism. Better together will win the day.

 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Revelling in Swinson losing her seat

 

 

Caught???? SNP leader celebrating a great victory for one of her candidates and that's somehow wrong???? Take it you don't celebrate when Hearts score a goal

[XB52]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Lol surely no one takes it that seriously. 
It’s went pretty much how I expected it to tbh. 
Maybe slightly better for the SNP than I thought but generally no surprise.

More nationalists than unionists in NI is pretty big though. 
 

Your last sentence is really important. Looks like the UK is in it's death throes and it will soon be EW 

[Pans Jambo]

49 minutes ago, Boab said:

Brexit will scupper that.
If the SNP box clever, they’ll wait until 2021 because the extend of this madness will then be known and people will want the hell out of it up here.

 

Makes sense that.

[Ron Burgundy]

5 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Caught???? SNP leader celebrating a great victory for one of her candidates and that's somehow wrong???? Take it you don't celebrate when Hearts score a goal

I've forgotten what I do when Hearts score a goal.

[Boab]

Just now, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

Not really, i was just saying.

Me neither. Spin is all it is. 
Promising more police only brings it back to the level it was before they cut numbers.

You really can’t believe a word of what they say.

[Pans Jambo]

7 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

The best way forward for Unionist supporters is another independence referendum to finally resolve the issue. The vote share last night broadly reflected the 55:45 result in the 2014 Referendum despite the S NP campaign for Unionist voters to LEND them their vote to reject Brexit.

 

We have nothing to fear from confronting seperatism. Better together will win the day.

 

Jeezo. I may agree if the referendum was in the last few months or even next week but why do you think "better together" would in any way win that vote after Boris takes us out of Europe in a no deal Brexit and really tightens the screw on austerity etc.? 5 years of tories and Boris with zero opposition. They can now vote through ANY policy they want as any/all of the moderate tories have been cleaned out the party in favour for the far right and the ERG supporters.

 

Indy ref1 and 2 could NOT look more different!

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

They could focus on running the country for a change!

 

Forget indy ref 2. There is no clear mandate for it.

????did you hear the results???? A landslide for the party campaigning on indyref2 and there is no mandate???? Take it Brexit can now be cancelled as there is less of a mandate for that in england

[XB52]

4 hours ago, stevie said:

SNP share of the vote up 0.9% 

8% actually

[Boab]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Jeezo. I may agree if the referendum was in the last few months or even next week but why do you think "better together" would in any way win that vote after Boris takes us out of Europe in a no deal Brexit and really tightens the screw on austerity etc.? 5 years of tories and Boris with zero opposition. They can now vote through ANY policy they want as any/all of the moderate tories have been cleaned out the party in favour for the far right and the ERG supporters.

 

Indy ref1 and 2 could NOT look more different!

 
Big time, but as I already said, the unionists will use the Brexit shambles to try and convince people not to go down a messy route.

It could easily go that as well as, as you have already said, people thinking this mess will be done and dusted by Jan 31st are in for a rude awakening.

Cameron should be behind bars for allowing this to happen. Spineless ******* !

[XB52]

4 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

If Nicola Sturgeon had been honest from the start (the day after #indyref1 ) , something might mean something.

 

Now, the SNP are about the same, saying the same, with about the same number of voters. 

An increase of 8% is about the same in your eyes?? In fact, it's actually an increase of over 20%.  8.1 increase from 36.9.

[cosanostra]

2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

Indy ref1 and 2 could NOT look more different!

 

They'll look extremely similar to a lot Scots aged over 50 I'd say.

Older people are consistent voters and they were not convinced last time around. I guess they still remember the UK as a positive thing. 

They won't accept the Euro and we've still no real idea what the alternative currency is.

 

I just don't see the result being any different in a 2nd referendum if they have it soon. People just like a Scottish party at Westminster to look after Scottish interests. There's just too many who shit themselves when asked to take things forward to independence. I think it'll happen eventually when the Boomers and older are gone and Gen X and Millenials make up the bulk of the Scottish electorate. That'll be a while though obviously.

[XB52]

13 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I've forgotten what I do when Hearts score a goal.

Give you that one😁😁

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, cosanostra said:

 

They'll look extremely similar to a lot Scots aged over 50 I'd say.

Older people are consistent voters and they were not convinced last time around. I guess they still remember the UK as a positive thing. 

They won't accept the Euro and we've still no real idea what the alternative currency is.

 

I just don't see the result being any different in a 2nd referendum if they have it soon. People just like a Scottish party at Westminster to look after Scottish interests. There's just too many who shit themselves when asked to take things forward to independence. I think it'll happen eventually when the Boomers and older are gone and Gen X and Millenials make up the bulk of the Scottish electorate. That'll be a while though obviously.

Lets hope for an extremely cold winter then Cosa  

[Martin_T]

A Tory government is almost worth it for the utter meltdown it has caused a certain resident of 'Uruguay' on Twitter.

[Randy Marsh]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

The important stat, if we’re taking this as a potential mandate for IndyRef2

 

Looks like support for Independence is peaking at around 45%. 

What % of the vote in Scotland went to the Greens?  Minimal amount by they would probably vote Yes in indy2 and push it up a bit further.

[cosanostra]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Lets hope for an extremely cold winter then Cosa  

 

They all are in Scotland mate. 

 

Scotland has an ageing population. Change will happen slowly. The young are vastly outnumbered in numbers and wealth and Brexit and IndyRef have both seen older voters side against younger voters. Change will happen eventually i think.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Randy Marsh said:

What % of the vote in Scotland went to the Greens?  Minimal amount by they would probably vote Yes in indy2 and push it up a bit further.

The only percentage folk really need to focus on is 76%.

 

That is the SNP won 76% of the seats available in Scotland.

 

Let that sink in.

[Boab]

Just now, cosanostra said:

 

They'll look extremely similar to a lot Scots aged over 50 I'd say.

Older people are consistent voters and they were not convinced last time around. I guess they still remember the UK as a positive thing. 

They won't accept the Euro and we've still no real idea what the alternative currency is.

 

I just don't see the result being any different in a 2nd referendum if they have it soon. People just like a Scottish party at Westminster to look after Scottish interests. There's just too many who shit themselves when asked to take things forward to independence. I think it'll happen eventually when the Boomers and older are gone and Gen X and Millenials make up the bulk of the Scottish electorate. That'll be a while though obviously.

They shat themselves because they were told bare-faced lies.

Remember the “ oh, the oil’s running oot ! “

bullshit ?

After the NO vote, it miraculously re-appeared !

****ing chancers !

 

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, cosanostra said:

 

They all are in Scotland mate. 

 

Scotland has an ageing population. Change will happen slowly. The young are vastly outnumbered in numbers and wealth and Brexit and IndyRef have both seen older voters side against younger voters. Change will happen eventually i think.

Theres truth in that definitely.  My lass voted SNP in her first GE (shes 19) as did most of her pals (she says).

 

The other undeniable truth is that the tories will tighten the screw on the elderly (pensions, TV Licencing etc.) and a few of them might "wake-up".

 

We will see.

[CloustonHMFC]

Folk still saying the SNP have no mandate for another indyref are, in large, the same people saying Boris now has a mandate for Brexit when the SNP has a bigger vote share in Scotland than the Tories do in the UK. I wholeheartedly agree Johnson now has a mandate to ‘get Brexit done’ but it must also be acknowledged that the SNP have the mandate to give the Scottish people a choice. 

[John Gentleman]

27 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Can't help but suspect that the Tories and Farage orchestrated a carve up.     Farage admitted he got a result that he greatly preferred to a hung parliament.    Suddenly standing down all his candidates in the Tory held seats whilst conducting a targetted campaign for Labour leaver votes everywhere else all plays into a scheme to channel the leave vote to Tory where required and to chip off a chunk of Labour vote share in non-Tory seats where required.

 

The FPTP system is prey to this kind of collusion.    It allows the likes of Farage to act as a disrupting proxy.     To rub salt in,   he appeared to lament the FPTP system last night.   

We've got a 'preferential' system here in Oz, but one way or another the major parties (Labor [Labour] and Liberal [Tories]) always find a way to manipulate the vote. And like the UK/US the Tories always get a jump start from the Murdoch media.
I don't think it's possible to have a perfect system, but PR as practised in NZ and Scotland is as close as democracies can get. 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, DarioHMFC said:

Folk still saying the SNP have no mandate for another indyref are, in large, the same people saying Boris now has a mandate for Brexit when the SNP has a bigger vote share in Scotland than the Tories do in the UK. I wholeheartedly agree Johnson now has a mandate to ‘get Brexit done’ but it must also be acknowledged that the SNP have the mandate to give the Scottish people a choice. 

Truth.

Its undeniable regardless if you want Indy or not. 

[AlphonseCapone]

43 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

The best way forward for Unionist supporters is another independence referendum to finally resolve the issue. The vote share last night broadly reflected the 55:45 result in the 2014 Referendum despite the S NP campaign for Unionist voters to LEND them their vote to reject Brexit.

 

We have nothing to fear from confronting seperatism. Better together will win the day.

 

 

Quite a few unionists now moving to the "Bring it on" camp. Obviously accepted that a second referendum soon is inevitable. That's progress.

[FWJ]

 

 

 

Plus ça change

[Boab]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Quite a few unionists now moving to the "Bring it on" camp. Obviously accepted that a second referendum soon is inevitable. That's progress.

My advice to the Nats would be the old line...” do exactly the opposite of what your enemies want ! “

Wait !

It’s coming regardless.

[Victorian]

9 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

We've got a 'preferential' system here in Oz, but one way or another the major parties (Labor [Labour] and Liberal [Tories]) always find a way to manipulate the vote. And like the UK/US the Tories always get a jump start from the Murdoch media.
I don't think it's possible to have a perfect system, but PR as practised in NZ and Scotland is as close as democracies can get. 

 

True.    The Holyrood system is more representative to an extent,   yet is undemocratic in a way.     The Holyrood system makes it very difficult for even a really popular party to gain a majority and deliver a mandate provided by the type of vote share that would and has seen a Westminster party achieve a landslide.     

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Sarah O said:

Have a great day mate. 

Some result north of the border. Very encouraging.

[ri Alban]

I don't know if I've already mentioned, but...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

48-11 Easy!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Findlay]

26 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

A Tory government is almost worth it for the utter meltdown it has caused a certain resident of 'Uruguay' on Twitter.

Is that Uruguay the council estate on the edge of Norwich?

[AlphonseCapone]

7 minutes ago, Boab said:

My advice to the Nats would be the old line...” do exactly the opposite of what your enemies want ! “

Wait !

It’s coming regardless.

 

I think waiting would be the better strategy but she's too committed now.

[Darren]

3 hours ago, Boris said:

She lost a majority of around 3000!

 

It was more than 5,000.

 

36 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

They'll look extremely similar to a lot Scots aged over 50 I'd say.

Older people are consistent voters and they were not convinced last time around. I guess they still remember the UK as a positive thing. 

They won't accept the Euro and we've still no real idea what the alternative currency is.

 

I just don't see the result being any different in a 2nd referendum if they have it soon. People just like a Scottish party at Westminster to look after Scottish interests. There's just too many who shit themselves when asked to take things forward to independence. I think it'll happen eventually when the Boomers and older are gone and Gen X and Millenials make up the bulk of the Scottish electorate. That'll be a while though obviously.

 

Once in a generation makes sense.

[ri Alban]

Gove must have plenty on Boris, otherwise he'd take him out for the leadership betrayal when May was chosen.

[Lovecraft]

 

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

Is it not the case that the Tories now have a clear mandate to deliver Brexit on the back of this election.

 

Yet the SNP received a bigger share of the vote in Scotland than the Tories did in the U.K.?

 

 

 

 

Both true but the latter means diddly squat in terms of a Westminster government. It's 48 seats out of 650, barely a pimple on the arse of the conservative government. I'm still not getting why last night's results mean indyref2 is more likely.

[...a bit disco]

17 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Is that Uruguay the council estate on the edge of Norwich?

 

 

Word for word, what I was about to post!

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

14 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

It was more than 5,000.

 

 

Once in a generation makes sense.

 

Does it?

 

Seems pretty arbitrary and takes no account of the real world.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Jeezo. I may agree if the referendum was in the last few months or even next week but why do you think "better together" would in any way win that vote after Boris takes us out of Europe in a no deal Brexit and really tightens the screw on austerity etc.? 5 years of tories and Boris with zero opposition. They can now vote through ANY policy they want as any/all of the moderate tories have been cleaned out the party in favour for the far right and the ERG supporters.

 

Indy ref1 and 2 could NOT look more different!

I agree. SNP will have to make their case obviously but that case may well be helped by BJ in his EU negotiations.  He wont get it done in 2020 and the consequences of that remain to be seen.  BJ doesnt want go align in any real way with EU . SNP could simply sit back for a bit and watch what unfolds.

[Darren]

3 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Does it?

 

Seems pretty arbitrary and takes no account of the real world.

 

For exactly the reasons in the post I quoted.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

Both true but the latter means diddly squat in terms of a Westminster government. It's 48 seats out of 650, barely a pimple on the arse of the conservative government. I'm still not getting why last night's results mean indyref2 is more likely.

 

I think it will be interesting, for want of a word.

 

Johnson will deny the Section 30 order, thus stoking (again for want of a word) grievance.

 

Personally, I think if you held an indyref tomorrow, No would still win.

 

But by dismissing it, and therefor being seen as treating Scotland like a colony, it may well push people over to yes.  Add that to 5 years of a Johnson government, Brexit and how that may turn out, again could push no people to yes.

 

Timing is everything - perhaps hoping for an SNP/Green collapse at the next Holyrood elections?  Last night suggests the opposite, but things are fluid I suppose.

[Seymour M Hersh]

53 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

A Tory government is almost worth it for the utter meltdown it has caused a certain resident of 'Uruguay' on Twitter.

 

Is he banned again (self ban or otherwise) from here?

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I think it will be interesting, for want of a word.

 

Johnson will deny the Section 30 order, thus stoking (again for want of a word) grievance.

 

Personally, I think if you held an indyref tomorrow, No would still win.

 

But by dismissing it, and therefor being seen as treating Scotland like a colony, it may well push people over to yes.  Add that to 5 years of a Johnson government, Brexit and how that may turn out, again could push no people to yes.

 

Timing is everything - perhaps hoping for an SNP/Green collapse at the next Holyrood elections?  Last night suggests the opposite, but things are fluid I suppose.

Times seem to have changed...

Edited December 13, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I think it will be interesting, for want of a word.

 

Johnson will deny the Section 30 order, thus stoking (again for want of a word) grievance.

 

Personally, I think if you held an indyref tomorrow, No would still win.

 

But by dismissing it, and therefor being seen as treating Scotland like a colony, it may well push people over to yes.  Add that to 5 years of a Johnson government, Brexit and how that may turn out, again could push no people to yes.

 

Timing is everything - perhaps hoping for an SNP/Green collapse at the next Holyrood elections?  Last night suggests the opposite, but things are fluid I suppose.

 

Now there's a word synonymous with the SNP especially when prefixed by the politics of.

[John Gentleman]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

True.    The Holyrood system is more representative to an extent,   yet is undemocratic in a way.     The Holyrood system makes it very difficult for even a really popular party to gain a majority and deliver a mandate provided by the type of vote share that would and has seen a Westminster party achieve a landslide.     

It's a double-bind though, is it not? 'Landslides' are only achieved because of FPTP. It's an 'all-or-nothing' system. Even with the eminently imperfect preferential sytem here, 'landslides' are simply illlusions. Even (apparently) large majorities in parliament can be quickly reversed in subsequent elections. And with 3-year electoral cycles, the buggers are always are always on the edge of their seats.

 

[Boris]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Now there's a word synonymous with the SNP especially when prefixed by the politics of.

 

Ha!  I knew that using it would elicit a response like that!  You don't disappoint!

[AlimOzturk]

I agree with what some are saying above. We should wait a year or two before announcing going for an second referendum. By then the UK will be on its arse and the Tories will be so unpopular that I reckon we win it be a landslide victory. 

 

5 years of Boris and there might not be much left to save. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Very surreal down here. 

 

Pretty much all tories, couple of lib fems in the crowd. 

 

Reasons 

Lib dem- against brexit. 

Tory reasons where weird. 

 

-I want brexit done but hate the tories, brexit will be done, Johnson will ruin things, but corbyn will resign and labour will become electable and I vote for them next time. 

 

-I hate corbyn....why?

 

-Corbyn can't be trusted... But Boris can? 

 

-Labour will ruin the economy...... The national debt? 

 

-And ofc some true blues. 

 

 

At least things will get moving, if borris does what he says he will things will be OK, maybe? 

If not then the borrowed votes will Surley come back to bite them next time. 

 

Scotland.... No idea. 

 

We need to make our mind up. 

 

Imo a "all in" approach is needed to resolve the constitution. 

 

Scotland independent 

 

Or

 

Part of the uk, Scottish Parliament dissolved. 

 

No in-between. 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Ha!  I knew that using it would elicit a response like that!  You don't disappoint!

 

It would have been rude not to Boris. Congrats on the victory last night btw. Maybe a more up to dat photo for the avatar though.