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Levein’s time is up...


Heartsofgold

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Regular John

The problem is our squad is jam packed the the brim full of average and hopeless players. We must have one of the largest squads in the league, but we’re talking about needing more.

 

A clear out is needed, particularly with the number of ‘promising’ midfielders and forwards we have. If they aren’t good enough now, which most of them aren’t they need to leave to be replaced with quality.

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1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

I’ve not passed comment on Craig Levein as to wether he should stay or go but I have read many many posts and posts that are now becoming more and more aggressive about his tenure . I would never say a manager should be sacked on the basis of one game , that would be stupid beyond belief , however his history has to be looked at and as of now CL record of first team results simply isn’t good enough. 

The work he has done at the academy is the stuff of dreams given the youngsters coming thru and that’s where I now think he should be . 

I’m told his record is comparable to cathros and I can’t remember too many voices defending him ( been told not double checked) 

I’m reading on other posts Hearts fans squaring up to each other , that isn’t good to hear , the divisions in the support has now got to the point it’s sad . 

I don’t think any manager will ever get the backing of 100% of the support but for them to be a success I’d take a stab in the dark that he’d need to have around 70% of the fans behind him , I wouldn’t like to guess what he’s got backing him at the minute . 

Ive always said a team is a reflection of the manager and whilst CL has a very good sense of humour he does come across dour and cautious . 

I’ll also add the players have to step up and work hard , they represent the finest club in football and whilst I don’t expect victory every game I bloody well expect effort in everyone , they are not blameless in this situation 

Didn't mean this to be so long I’m just so bloody frustrated at the product on the pitch at present , especially when the off field product is so good . 

 

You lost me with your ‘I’m told’ comment. Do your own research. Too many listen to what people are supposedly ‘told’ Particularly politcians words. Do your own research and make your own mind up. 

Following on from that re Hearts, go to some u15/16/17 or younger games, watch the reserves, compare that with the current first team and start salivating about what’s coming if we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m all for him not being first team coach, as is he, but don’t even begin to think that he hasn’t got our club heading in the right direction and very quickly as well. 

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1 hour ago, amadjambo said:

No point in Levein going unless his backroom staff go to. Levein doesn’t take training and I suspect McPhee has quite a significant role to play in what tactics and team selection we adopt.

 

last season was terrible in the league, but the cup final performance bought the management some time. However, we really needed to hit the ground running this season or the fans would turn. We haven’t done so in the LC, so next weekend is huge. Another inept performance at Pittodrie and the discontent will rapidly grow.

When was our last good LC group/early rounds campaign? Can’t remember , it was so far in the past. League begins next week plus ko stage of league cup, that’s when it gets serious.  Let’s revisit in two to three months time. Certainly couldn’t countenance changing manager this week. 

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1 minute ago, jambopilms said:

Haven't got a bad squad, they are not performing.

Lots on here saying we have no midfielders and 6, yes 6 , crap strikers. So which is it? 

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1 hour ago, EarnockJambo said:

 

When Cathro was sacked, you wouldn't have thought that was possible,  but he's managed it!

Were we all on holiday for Cathro semi and final matches? 

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50 minutes ago, sadj said:

Little scenario - league form shit - Cup Final coming up - CL puts all other duties aside and takes proper charge of first team affairs. We compete despite not being at full strength. Cup Final ends go back to where we were before. Performances go back to how they were. Sums up Daly and Dix for me and the fact CL should only be DoF as its two big jobs to be Head Coach and DoF and shouldn’t be done by one person. 

Agree 100%. Is Robbie available? 

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5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

When was our last good LC group/early rounds campaign? Can’t remember , it was so far in the past. League begins next week plus ko stage of league cup, that’s when it gets serious.  Let’s revisit in two to three months time. Certainly couldn’t countenance changing manager this week. 

You might want to wait 2-3 months to revisit, but many, and I suspect a majority, won’t wait that long. If we don’t hit the ground running in the league the atmosphere in the stands will become toxic, and from there it’s hard to come back.

 

The LC group stages haven’t been going for long, and we’ve not been involved in them all either I don’t think. But just because we were crap in the group stage under Cathro or Levein last season doesn’t excuse our pathetic performances this season. At least last season we produced one decent performance when we thumped ICT.

Edited by amadjambo
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8 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

In truth we have morphed into a less malodorous version of Hibs over the last five years. All the stuff we used to mock them for - bumbling, incoherent, clueless managers, humiliating European exits, deflection of unacceptable results by talking about something else (new stand, healthy financial position), soiling the shorts in derbies and then pretending that the derby doesn’t really matter, acceptance of crushing mediocrity because we’re not “entitled” to be any better, production of flimsy excuses on an industrial scale - is now our property.

 

Sad times.

Still in transition after admin, just need a bit more patience. What have sevco done since liquidation? Have faith

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DuncansDoughnuts
7 minutes ago, jambopilms said:

Haven't got a bad squad, they are not performing.

If they are not performing they ARE a bad squad.

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49 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

There's something in this, particularly since coming out of admin - or the Budge/Levein era. I've been watching Hearts since 1983 and we have had some of the most embarrassing results in the last 5 years. Two cup losses to part time teams - Peterhead and East Fife (albeit on pens). I only remember one other in the previous 30 years, Montrose in 1986. A European defeat to Maltese minnows. I don't remember a single Euro defeat to such a small team ever before. Two cup defeats to Hibs. Almost unimaginable after 4-0, 5-1, 22 in a row, 17 in a row etc. 5-0 to Livingston. Defeats of that magnitude to smaller SPL teams only come about once a decade I.e. 6-1 v Motherwell, 6-2 v St Mirren. The club in an immensely strong financial position, thanks to benefactors both large and small. Why are we making excuses?

You were lucky, had you been around five to ten years earlier your standards re embarrassing would have been much lower. 

Re Hibs, 0-7, 6-2 and numerous other drubbings are all there. 

Nothing new in what is going on at the moment other than progress off the pitch at first team level. 

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6 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

In truth we have morphed into a less malodorous version of Hibs over the last five years. All the stuff we used to mock them for - bumbling, incoherent, clueless managers, humiliating European exits, deflection of unacceptable results by talking about something else (new stand, healthy financial position), soiling the shorts in derbies and then pretending that the derby doesn’t really matter, acceptance of crushing mediocrity because we’re not “entitled” to be any better, production of flimsy excuses on an industrial scale - is now our property.

 

Sad times.

Good analogy. I also forgot to mention it's the first time we've went three SPL seasons in a row without qualifying for Europe in my lifetime. Qualifying for Europe is a good barometer of success for Hearts in my opinion. However, there's many Hearts fans these days who don't want to qualify for Europe because we might be out before July is out. We weren't worried about losing those type of European ties once upon a time, because we never did.

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2 minutes ago, sac said:

Still in transition after admin, just need a bit more patience. What have sevco done since liquidation? Have faith

 

I hear what you’re saying. If we had a team that was achieving the kind of poor results we’ve had since November despite playing with drive, urgency, guts and determination, I’d probably feel better. In the days of Robbo, Mackay and Levein as player you would rarely, if ever, leave a match thinking the players cared less than the supporters. Now? I’m not so sure.

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5 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

You might want to wait 2-3 months to revisit, but many, and I suspect a majority, won’t wait that long. If we don’t hit the ground running in the league the atmosphere in the stands will become toxic, and from there it’s hard to come back.

 

The LC group stages haven’t been going for long, and we’ve not been involved in them all either I don’t think. But just because we were crap in the group stage under Cathro or Levein last season doesn’t excuse our pathetic performances this season. At least last season we produced one decent performance when we thumped ICT.

When did we last win the league cup? When were we last in the semis before last season? 

Last seasons lc group performances were just as bad as this season except ICT at home. Players are just not up for them, youngsters get games they shouldn’t, players avoiding injury because they know the league campaign is only one week away. Today was a perfect example

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5 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

Good analogy. I also forgot to mention it's the first time we've went three SPL seasons in a row without qualifying for Europe in my lifetime. Qualifying for Europe is a good barometer of success for Hearts in my opinion. However, there's many Hearts fans these days who don't want to qualify for Europe because we might be out before July is out. We weren't worried about losing those type of European ties once upon a time, because we never did.

We didn’t play those type of games years ago because there were far fewer teams in Europe. You typically got good teams in your first round. 

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3fingersreid
15 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You lost me with your ‘I’m told’ comment. Do your own research. Too many listen to what people are supposedly ‘told’ Particularly politcians words. Do your own research and make your own mind up. 

Following on from that re Hearts, go to some u15/16/17 or younger games, watch the reserves, compare that with the current first team and start salivating about what’s coming if we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I’m all for him not being first team coach, as is he, but don’t even begin to think that he hasn’t got our club heading in the right direction and very quickly as well. 

I’m not advocating CL  being relieved of his roll in the academy , quite the opposite if you care to check . I personally believe that the development of young players is CL strong point and should be concentrating on that now  . 

 

 

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merseyjambo

I actually feel sorry for Ann Budge. She needed a football man when she came to the club and employed CL thinking that he was a forward thinking coach. She took on his ideas about getting rid of the manager at the time and some of the playing staff.

 

Appointing RN seemed like a breath of fresh air and in the Championship winning season we played some real good free flowing quick attacking football.

 

He followed that up with a fantastic start in the SPL playing similar football, then we got scudded by Aberdeen and things changed. We went with a more cautious approach to games. Very typical of CL in his first spell as manager.

 

RN left and things have gone on a downward spiral from there.

 

The problem she has is that the person who she would run all footballing matters through is the one that is causing the problem at the club. For her to get rid of him is an admission to 5 years of failure, believing everything he told her, buying into the boot room progression, the football decisions made, the money spent on transfers and wages. Everything. If he goes, the whole cabal needs to go and she would need to start from scratch. For someone with her alleged stated knowing nothing about football background, would she even know where to start. 

 

To to this day, I still refuse to believe that when Cathro went, the best shortlist we could produce was 2 ex Hearts Players with average managerial records at best, an odious little turd and Daly. If AB was genuine about the wonderful calibre of candidates, how did any of those 4 get through the paper sift. Who put the shortlist together??? Perhaps the issue with some of the other candidates was that our DoF wouldn’t have wanted to be shown up for the footballing charlatan that he actually is. Great player and servant to the club but was an appointment viewed with scepticism by some. His stranglehold on the club is killing it. You can’t even criticise his coaching methods as it seems he barely coaches them.

 

If CL cared for the club in the way he claims to, he would step down and allow someone else to take over DoF role and allow them to appoint a manager who is not afraid to actually go out and play football, employ different tactics and play to our strengths and with tempo.

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6 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

I hear what you’re saying. If we had a team that was achieving the kind of poor results we’ve had since November despite playing with drive, urgency, guts and determination, I’d probably feel better. In the days of Robbo, Mackay and Levein as player you would rarely, if ever, leave a match thinking the players cared less than the supporters. Now? I’m not so sure.

You obviously weren’t around in 84/85 or your memories going but yes we finished 7th and yes your three stalwarts played about 130 games between them. I do remember having exactly those thoughts. First 10/12 games of following season was even worse. 

Edited by soonbe110
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2 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

I’m not advocating CL  being relieved of his roll in the academy , quite the opposite if you care to check . I personally believe that the development of young players is CL strong point and should be concentrating on that now  . 

 

 

Absolutely agree with you. 

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There are from my perspective, no obtainable candidates in Scotland who would be better than what we have to replace Levein.

 

It would be interesting to see who would apply if we invited CVs.

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3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

When did we last win the league cup? When were we last in the semis before last season? 

Last seasons lc group performances were just as bad as this season except ICT at home. Players are just not up for them, youngsters get games they shouldn’t, players avoiding injury because they know the league campaign is only one week away. Today was a perfect example

We’ve not won the LC in my lifetime.

We were in the final a few years ago when St Mirren beat us, and had a shocking semi final defeat to ICT around that time too.

 

How is any of that relevant to how we’ve performed this season though? It’s yet another excuse being trotted out to defend mediocrity.

 

On the flip side, how many times have Hibs won the LC, been in finals or semi finals in recent years? Are you saying we shouldn’t have the ambition to at the very least be able to match the achievements of our lesser neighbours in the same competition?

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2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You obviously weren’t around in 84/85 or your memories going but yes we finished 7th and yes your three stalwarts played about 130 games between them. I do remember having exactly those thoughts. First 10/12 games of following season was even worse. 

 

Fair enough. I spent that year in Aberdeen and didn’t make it to many matches.

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Just now, Martin_T said:

There are from my perspective, no obtainable candidates in Scotland who would be better than what we have to replace Levein.

 

It would be interesting to see who would apply if we invited CVs.

It would indeed. Csaba for one, Paolo for two. Pity we missed out on Killie’s  new messiah and just can’t persuade Tommy Wright to leave Perth.  Cove Rangers current manager is favoured by many on here as is Carlisle’s ex-manager. 

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Randy Marsh
1 hour ago, Flimsy said:

There's something in this, particularly since coming out of admin - or the Budge/Levein era. I've been watching Hearts since 1983 and we have had some of the most embarrassing results in the last 5 years. Two cup losses to part time teams - Peterhead and East Fife (albeit on pens). I only remember one other in the previous 30 years, Montrose in 1986. A European defeat to Maltese minnows. I don't remember a single Euro defeat to such a small team ever before. Two cup defeats to Hibs. Almost unimaginable after 4-0, 5-1, 22 in a row, 17 in a row etc. 5-0 to Livingston. Defeats of that magnitude to smaller SPL teams only come about once a decade I.e. 6-1 v Motherwell, 6-2 v St Mirren. The club in an immensely strong financial position, thanks to benefactors both large and small. Why are we making excuses?

Excellent post.  This sums up why I haven't renewed my ST for the first time in 22 years. Something is rotten at the club.

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

If Budge will not get rid....... Then she has to go herself..... Simple. 

 

 

Brilliant stuff. 

 

In a day that we qualified for the next round of the cup, fans want our manager and owner removed from the club. 

 

JKB at it's finest. 

The best thing about a poor result is the absolute volume of shite posted on here. 

 

Just waiting on someone to suggest we should knock down Tynecastle as well and we'll just start again. 

 

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Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Brilliant stuff. 

 

In a day that we qualified for the next round of the cup, fans want our manager and owner removed from the club. 

 

JKB at it's finest. 

The best thing about a poor result is the absolute volume of shite posted on here. 

 

Just waiting on someone to suggest we should knock down Tynecastle as well and we'll just start again. 

 

I think we should merge with Hibs, call us Edinburgh Capitals, then Hearts would never lose another game and loads on here would enjoy their Saturday nights. 

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Cruyff Turn
11 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

There are from my perspective, no obtainable candidates in Scotland who would be better than what we have to replace Levein.

 

It would be interesting to see who would apply if we invited CVs.

Agree with your first paragraph. I wouldn’t touch anyone in Scotland.

 

Disagree with your 2nd however. All we’ll get is a pile of shite out of work managers and has beens if we invite CVs. 

 

We should set out to be ambitious and bring in someone young with good experience, ambitious and has had success at maybe a lower level. Ultimately someone who must share the clubs vision of promoting youth and developing young players. 

 

For me, Danny and Nicky Cowley would be near the top of the list of possible candidates. 

Edited by Cruyff Turn
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Bazzas right boot
2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I think we should merge with Hibs, call us Edinburgh Capitals, then Hearts would never lose another game and loads on here would enjoy their Saturday nights. 

 

 

The place has been good fun tonight. 

 

 

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John mcCartney
9 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

There are from my perspective, no obtainable candidates in Scotland who would be better than what we have to replace Levein.

 

It would be interesting to see who would apply if we invited CVs.


checking out talksport recently on Brazil`s show,they were encouraging guest Ian Holloway back into football management.......

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The Internet
22 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

We organising a plane then

 

Does amaze me that Robbie Neilson got a plane and shan flyers and bedsheets stuck up all round Edinburgh calling for his head despite actually doing quite well and Levein gets some angry words on an internet forum and a few boos for taking us massively backwards. I'm not advocating it but there's no consistency, either on the park or amongst the crowds.

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Levein's time was up ****ing ages ago, everyone knows it whether they're a hearts fan or just a neutral observer, the guy is done and we're heading in to another season with the joker in charge. Struggling to motivate myself to even care anymore.

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DuncansDoughnuts
31 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You were lucky, had you been around five to ten years earlier your standards re embarrassing would have been much lower. 

Re Hibs, 0-7, 6-2 and numerous other drubbings are all there. 

Nothing new in what is going on at the moment other than progress off the pitch at first team level. 

Obviously never watched a Tony Ford game...

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12 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

We’ve not won the LC in my lifetime.

We were in the final a few years ago when St Mirren beat us, and had a shocking semi final defeat to ICT around that time too.

 

How is any of that relevant to how we’ve performed this season though? It’s yet another excuse being trotted out to defend mediocrity.

 

On the flip side, how many times have Hibs won the LC, been in finals or semi finals in recent years? Are you saying we shouldn’t have the ambition to at the very least be able to match the achievements of our lesser neighbours in the same competition?

Some fans have a weird comfort blanket of using past FAILINGS as a way to justify the current failings.  

 

Should we not aspire to match past successes? Use those as our yardstick and our motivation to help the club progress?  It’s f^^kin pathetic and alot of Hearts fans have this numpty attitude. 

 

In a time we are meant to be in our best financial situation we should have people running the club with a hunger that goes beyond hunger to see the TEAM succeed.

 

The club needs a big shake. Big shake on the football side.  

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tolcross lad
23 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

I’m not advocating CL  being relieved of his roll in the academy , quite the opposite if you care to check . I personally believe that the development of young players is CL strong point and should be concentrating on that now  . 

 

 

 

I have still to see real evidence that the academy is any more successful than in the past.I thought Arnott ran the academy?

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1 minute ago, Debut 4 said:

Some fans have a weird comfort blanket of using past FAILINGS as a way to justify the current failings.  

 

Should we not aspire to match past successes? Use those as our yardstick and our motivation to help the club progress?  It’s f^^kin pathetic and alot of Hearts fans have this numpty attitude. 

 

In a time we are meant to be in our best financial situation we should have people running the club with a hunger that goes beyond hunger to see the TEAM succeed.

 

The club needs a big shake. Big shake on the football side.  

 

Spot on. Nobody is actually surprised when results like today’s happen. We’re a soft touch.

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3fingersreid
1 minute ago, DuncansDoughnuts said:

Obviously never watched a Tony Ford game...

Horrific , I remember Hearts struggling at hampden v Queens Park  when he was in charge 

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3fingersreid
3 minutes ago, tolcross lad said:

 

I have still to see real evidence that the academy is any more successful than in the past.I thought Arnott ran the academy?

To be fair to Craig Levein he had to kick start the youngsters after years of neglect , so he’s due credit for what is a promising future 

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Guest ToqueJambo
4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Some fans have a weird comfort blanket of using past FAILINGS as a way to justify the current failings.  

 

Should we not aspire to match past successes? Use those as our yardstick and our motivation to help the club progress?  It’s f^^kin pathetic and alot of Hearts fans have this numpty attitude. 

 

In a time we are meant to be in our best financial situation we should have people running the club with a hunger that goes beyond hunger to see the TEAM succeed.

 

The club needs a big shake. Big shake on the football side.  

 

Not so much a comfort blanket as anyone who has watched Hearts for a long time has a certain perspective on things because we know that we often have very good seasons on the back of very mediocre ones ad vice versa. 

 

They also know we can have very poor early season showings but have a very good season - and vice versa. Many probably also, like me, keep our shit together when we have disappointing runs or results like now and save our fury for the really bad times - which the current situation doesn't even get close to. 

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16 minutes ago, John mcCartney said:


checking out talksport recently on Brazil`s show,they were encouraging guest Ian Holloway back into football management.......

He doesn’t do anything for £150k per annum, maybe £150k per week and we could get him. 

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6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'joker' ? 

 

That doesn't seem fair or accurate. 

 

He likes a joke, doesn't he?

 

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12 minutes ago, DuncansDoughnuts said:

Obviously never watched a Tony Ford game...

Oh I did, most of them in fact. Dire times. Much worse than current times. 

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Enzo Chiefo
28 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

There are from my perspective, no obtainable candidates in Scotland who would be better than what we have to replace Levein.

 

It would be interesting to see who would apply if we invited CVs.

Stephen Robinson has a great track record developing young players and identifying signings. He also had them punching above their weight in reaching 2 Cup Finals beating Rangers at Hampden on the way and , last season, when things didn't start well, he changed course and style of play, overseeing a great unbeaten run. Would be an ideal candidate in my opinion. 

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6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Not so much a comfort blanket as anyone who has watched Hearts for a long time has a certain perspective on things because we know that we often have very good seasons on the back of very mediocre ones ad vice versa. 

 

They also know we can have very poor early season showings but have a very good season - and vice versa. Many probably also, like me, keep our shit together when we have disappointing runs or results like now and save our fury for the really bad times - which the current situation doesn't even get close to. 

I’m old enough to have seen all you go on about. Doesn’t change my attitude of wanting Hearts to fight and break free from the cycle we tend to go in. I don’t accept it as the norm. Maybe it’ll take another 10, 15, 20 years, maybe less, but I hope we find a level that the club becomes accustomed to. 

 

Different types of of people come through the door , some successful and some not so, but it’s the fans who can drive the club on to keep fighting for better. We are the constant. Like it or not and call them deluded, but putting prejudices aside for a minute, the old firm never change. 

 

They may have the money but they’ll always have the attitude. Their fans demand demand demand, even when the team is toiling. Alot of Hearts fans just accept mediocrity season after season with a shrug.  

Edited by Debut 4
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Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Stephen Robinson has a great track record developing young players and identifying signings. He also had them punching above their weight in reaching 2 Cup Finals beating Rangers at Hampden on the way and , last season, when things didn't start well, he changed course and style of play, overseeing a great unbeaten run. Would be an ideal candidate in my opinion. 

Thank goodness your name isn’t Ann Budge. 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Thank goodness your name isn’t Ann Budge. 

What a stupid, ill thought out post.

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48 minutes ago, Flimsy said:

Good analogy. I also forgot to mention it's the first time we've went three SPL seasons in a row without qualifying for Europe in my lifetime. Qualifying for Europe is a good barometer of success for Hearts in my opinion. However, there's many Hearts fans these days who don't want to qualify for Europe because we might be out before July is out. We weren't worried about losing those type of European ties once upon a time, because we never did.

 

This made my head explode 

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Guest ToqueJambo
3 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I’m old enough to have seen all you go on about. Doesn’t change my attitude of wanting Hearts to fight and break free from the cycle we tend to go in. I don’t accept it as the norm. Maybe it’ll take another 10, 15, 20 years, maybe less, but I hope we find a level that the club becomes accustomed to. 

 

Different types of of people come through the door , some successful and some not so, but it’s the fans who can drive the club on to keep fighting for better. We are the constant. Like it or not and call them deluded, but putting prejudices aside for a minute, the old firm never change. 

 

They may have the money but they’ll always have the attitude. Their fans demand demand demand, even when the team is toiling. Alot of Hearts fans just accept mediocrity season after season with a shrug.  

 

Its not about accepting anything. It's just that we are as likely to have a good season this season as any season. Folk who have watched Hearts a long time know that, no matter who's in charge. So that's why I'll get worried later in the season if things don't change, instead of losing my shit in July.

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Guest ToqueJambo
7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Stephen Robinson has a great track record developing young players and identifying signings. He also had them punching above their weight in reaching 2 Cup Finals beating Rangers at Hampden on the way and , last season, when things didn't start well, he changed course and style of play, overseeing a great unbeaten run. Would be an ideal candidate in my opinion. 

 

I was wondering who this season's Tommy Wright or Alan Archibald would be 😂

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