Two supporters banned indefinitely ( updated )

[Dinger]

HEARTS AND THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA ARE IN COLLUSION TO DISTRACT YOU ALL FROM THE TRUTH,

THEY DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT THE UFO'S AND BIG PHARMA!!!

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!! 

 

[Iamborg]

48 minutes ago, Duchess said:

If the letter supposedly doesn't mention Racism / Sectarianism then let's see it. 

 

All i've seen is the conveniently highlighted section about twitter content (which personally I think they should've left off but that's just my opinion)

I agree , we had a poster earlier saying he had seen this letter so lets gets a copy poster here (minus personal details)

[FruitJuice]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

It is all building up to a toxic atmosphere on Saturday.

 

Cannot wait tbh

 

Maybe the timing of the bans is a smart tactic by the club.  Do you think that budge has played a blinder here i8..?

[Bridge of Djoum]

20 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Yeah very good...insert stupid emoji..

Better a stupid emoji in a post than just posting stupidity over and over and... 

[sadj]

7 minutes ago, Iamborg said:

I agree , we had a poster earlier saying he had seen this letter so lets gets a copy poster here (minus personal details)

 

I don’t think it matters either way , there is no chance they will be banned for saying Levein out. There’s obviously more to it. To try and claim its for saying Lehvein oot is just madness. On the back of whatever they have done thats been reported then corroborated with the cvtv cctv cvvvtcv or whatever they’ve then looked at these guys social media and seen things that are inappropriate and thats their fault not the clubs. One poster said one of them spent the hibs game doing a hand of ulster so all that suggests its a thought process for them not a one off. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by sadj

[Bridge of Djoum]

11 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

So if they were banned for being sectarian then why was this not outlined in the letter sent to them? 

So the Sun is now a reputable media outlet?! This is the paper that was more than happy to make up lies about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough.  

Look this is all a bit boring. I dont know these lads and if they are guilty of sectarianism or racism then fine ban them.

If its telling Levein in no uncertain terms hes not up to it then its a disgrace. 

So you agree it’s not a disgrace. 

[YouLetYourClubDie]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Mistakes are made even in the courts. Not sure what your point us. I assume thise bans were lifted in that case, if the allegations turned out to be false. 

It is up to Hearts to hand over their  evidence and report it to the Police now as the two guys in question are saying that their letters mention nothing about racism or sectarianism. 

[YouLetYourClubDie]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

 

 That was the Motherwell game. 

Looked a stick on ban as that wee gremlin, Robinson, the Well manager, was on in a rather apoplectic manner, saying he’d seen the evidence.

 

Then....nothing came of it !

 

Very strange.

A lot of people go out their way to be offended and mishear things so I really hope this is not the case again in this situation. If it is true then they deserve to be banned.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

21 minutes ago, YouLetYourClubDie said:

It is up to Hearts to hand over their  evidence and report it to the Police now as the two guys in question are saying that their letters mention nothing about racism or sectarianism. 

Its possible that Hearts dont want to involve the police. They may have enough evidence to bring them in but only if the two banned fans fight it.

May be better for them to take the ban with no police involvement. They'll know better than anyone if they're guilty. 

[Back to 2005]

33 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Better a stupid emoji in a post than just posting stupidity over and over and... 

Some can manage both...

[Stephen Muddie]

On 12/09/2019 at 17:19, Sagan said:

Banning folk for criticising the regime haha. 

That's like something Hitler would do. 

Aye but he also tried everything possible not to bomb British civilians, until Churchill set fire to most of Germany, so it was sort of warranted.

What I'm trying to say is there's two sides to every story. Sometimes in the middle there's a truth. Other times, ***** are pure lying out their teeth m8.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Stephen Muddie

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

12 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Its possible that Hearts dont want to involve the police. They may have enough evidence to bring them in but only if the two banned fans fight it.

May be better for them to take the ban with no police involvement. They'll know better than anyone if they're guilty. 

 

If they’re guilty of sectarianism then Hearts have a duty to involve the police. It’s not the club’s prerogative to decide.

[YouLetYourClubDie]

8 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Its possible that Hearts dont want to involve the police. They may have enough evidence to bring them in but only if the two banned fans fight it.

May be better for them to take the ban with no police involvement. They'll know better than anyone if they're guilty. 

The precedent for such incidents is to report it to the Police. If the fans in question are guilty then the way they are going about it suggests otherwise as creating a Twitter storm would surely make Hearts more likely to report them. 

 

Another fan has posted a part of hos banning letter which references comments against members of the club on Twitter and social media in general. Very strange.

[davemclaren]

37 minutes ago, YouLetYourClubDie said:

It is up to Hearts to hand over their  evidence and report it to the Police now as the two guys in question are saying that their letters mention nothing about racism or sectarianism. 

That’s not the same as denying it. I’m sure if Hearts think a crime has been committed they will have shared with the police. That doesn’t mean the police will think there is sufficient evidence for a criminal case. 

[Dunks]

3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Only club to ban fans ahead of any criminal case decision.

 

And first time any Hearts regime has done so as well.

 

Another couple of firsts under her regime.

 

Wrong on both counts.

 

Not a first for you.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, farin said:

 

Your totally missing the point here. It’s being reported as sectarian & racist behaviour at the game. If the club are openly using this type of wording then they do need cast iron proof of guilt to back this allegation up in case it’s challenged by the accused. Hearts have been caught out in the past by this allegation being false (2 fans at the Motherwell game). 

 

it’s obviously about something that happened at the game not about their online tweets as far as hearts are concerned. There’s a clear distinction here, If clubs banned fans just for social media posts however distasteful they are then the grounds would prob be half empty tbh judging by some of the the stuff I’ve read spouted by all kinds of fans online. 

 

 

I agree regarding social media and know what the ban is for  was for, that's why I said even if it was for the tweets. 

 

My point still stands, the club don't need evidence to refuse entry to a person, it's not a court of law, but ofc it is best with evidence if taking such actons but it's not needed and does not paint the club in a bad light at all. 

 

If it was reversed then there is no harm done other than a few games missed, it's not like you get 3 months in jail. 

 

We are differing in that you are using the law and courts as an example for refusing entry. 

 

We could refuse entry for a guy being an arsehole and for  allegations a and b and at court it could fall through and he could be found not guilty of allegations a and b, does not mean we still cannot ban that person just because in court it wasn't proven. 

 

Usually the two are connected, but banning someone from a commercial premises or refusing entry does not need to follow the law in regards to innocent until proven guilty. 

 

You do not need cast iron proof to refuse entry, although in a high profile case it would be recommended. 

 

You don't even need a reason to refuse entry in all honesty. 

 

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

If they’re guilty of sectarianism then Hearts have a duty to involve the police. It’s not the club’s prerogative to decide.

Do Hearts have a duty? I honestly dont know. The police refuse to get involved twice a week on a weekly basis for pretty much 40 weeks during Scotlands football season so why start now.

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

If they’re guilty of sectarianism then Hearts have a duty to involve the police. It’s not the club’s prerogative to decide.

 

 

Ofc it's a choice. 

The clubs or individuals abused choice, the individual may not want police involvement. 

 

For example, If you get assaulted, it's up to you to report it. 

You are not duty bound. 

 

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Do Hearts have a duty? I honestly dont know. The police refuse to get involved twice a week on a weekly basis for pretty much 40 weeks during Scotlands football season so why start now.

 

 

They don't. 

 

Folk just getting a organisation refusing entry for whatever reasons with criminal charges. 

 

When, in the pastI try to get served alcohol when I'm pissed but get refused, the police don't come barging in but in the past I've been arsed out and told not come back. 

 

I wasn't even reported to the police for trying to break the law then dancing on the table. 

 

Only be a duty if the person involved wanted to take it further, in this case the player I think. 

 

 

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

There’s something really ironic about the twitter hertz calling budge ‘Hitler’.

 

Not a brain amongst them.

[Stephen Muddie]

Just now, Sexton Hardcastle said:

There’s something really ironic about the twitter hertz calling budge ‘Hitler’.

 

Not a brain amongst them.

Total dingles IMO

[Johnny Sandiego]

1 hour ago, Back to 2005 said:

I suspect so unfortunately. There is no evidence of sectarianism or racism so where did it come from then?

 

If thats really the case then rather than the 2 lads taking to social media to moan about it, surely they would be better getting a lawyer and suing Hearts for both the price of their season ticket and the damage to reputation?

 

If they are certain they never broke any of the stadium rules around racist or sectarian behaviour, then that would be an easy case to take to a court. Hearts would have to defend themselves and their official statement to the national press. All the evidence would be investigated impartially and the truth would come out.

 

Now i suspect none of that will happen, and its more likely the 2 lads know what they said over stepped the mark. They probably dont want their employers knowing exactly what they said either. Its much easier to play the victim on social media and capitalise on the current unrest. 

[YouLetYourClubDie]

16 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That’s not the same as denying it. I’m sure if Hearts think a crime has been committed they will have shared with the police. That doesn’t mean the police will think there is sufficient evidence for a criminal case. 

Surely that is not up to Hearts to decide and they should have made clear in their quote to the Sun that they had passed the evidence on to the Police. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

8 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

They don't. 

 

Folk just getting a organisation refusing entry for whatever reasons with criminal charges. 

 

When, in the pastI try to get served alcohol when I'm pissed but get refused, the police don't come barging in but in the past I've been arsed out and told not come back. 

 

I wasn't even reported to the police for trying to break the law then dancing on the table. 

 

Only be a duty if the person involved wanted to take it further, in this case the player I think. 

 

 

 

 

Absolute bollocks.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, YouLetYourClubDie said:

Surely that is not up to Hearts to decide and they should have made clear in their quote to the Sun that they had passed the evidence on to the Police. 

It’s entirely up to Hearts and they might well have already taken police advice. 

[Beast Boy]

1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

A mutual friend of mine and one of the banned “supporters” just shared a pic of the guy happily smiling and posing with none other than... Craig Levein. Relatively recent picture by all accounts. 

 

Its s that kind of bravery I really admire. Heading to social media to abuse individuals whilst in person, you shite yourself because you know Craig would take you behind the Wheatfield and rag doll your skinny wee frame. 

 

Cowards. 

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

A mutual friend of mine and one of the banned “supporters” just shared a pic of the guy happily smiling and posing with none other than... Craig Levein. Relatively recent picture by all accounts. 

 

Its s that kind of bravery I really admire. Heading to social media to abuse individuals whilst in person, you shite yourself because you know Craig would take you behind the Wheatfield and rag doll your skinny wee frame. 

 

Cowards. 

 

Ooh lovely

 

Feel like sharing it?

[Rudy T]

If these two are so innocent why take to Twitter, the head of security calls you refute the claims and ask to see the evidence. I’m certain the club would happily accommodate them.

 

What they wouldn’t do is publicly announce why the bans were issued if they could be challenged. Why would they; it only serves to paint the club in a bad light again highlighting we have these people in our support. I’m sure all concerned would’ve been better served keeping this between them. 

 

The only reason the club has published this is because these two took to Twitter. 

 

What amazes me is they thought they could get away with it in the ground. Anyone travelling to away games knows this goes on and have heard it all but actually in Tynecastle.. wtf!!

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, farin said:

 

I know the access regs & right of refusal  at football grounds perfectly well. This isn’t about hearts not needing a reason to ban them. Hearts have given them a reason, my point is have they the proof to substantiate it. Because conflicting reports are coming out as to why they are getting banned. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yip and that's why it's  better just to ban with a more generalised theme.

 

Like, the guys was a complete arse on the last few trips so he's not allowed back in. suck it up.

 

The evidence seems to be the other testimonies of the other fans, ok for a ban but would be dodgy in a criminal court one would think.

 

 

[Rudy T]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Yip and that's why it's  better just to ban with a more generalised theme.

 

Like, the guys was a complete arse on the last few trips so he's not allowed back in. suck it up.

 

The evidence seems to be the other testimonies of the other fans, ok for a ban but would be dodgy in a criminal court one would think.

 

 

 

They have CCTV footage. I’d imagine it’s pretty conclusive.

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Absolute bollocks.

 

 

So if your brother or family member or even a good mate clocked you in a drunken fight you'd have them up in court for assault because it's your duty or would you shake hands and move on.

 

It's up to the organisation or in this case likely the players that were getting abuse to press charges. If they don't want to they shouldn't and can't be forced.

 

Hearts can still take action tho, in this case they banned them for the behaviour. 

 

You don't need to do both

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Rudy T said:

 

They have CCTV footage. I’d imagine it’s pretty conclusive.

 

I did say almost in every post it is best to have evidence, it just isn't needed.

[Bridge of Djoum]

9 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Ooh lovely

 

Feel like sharing it?

I’d be hesitant to even post screenshots from social media. This involves an image of someone. I’m not sure that’d be permitted here on KB. It is a pretty easy image to find, though. 

[sadj]

15 minutes ago, farin said:

 

I know the access regs & right of refusal  at football grounds perfectly well. This isn’t about hearts not needing a reason to ban them. Hearts have given them a reason, my point is have they the proof to substantiate it. Because conflicting reports are coming out as to why they are getting banned. 

 

 

 

 

The conflict though is we’ve banned them for x , no yu hav neee you banned us for not liking Levein. 

 

First thing you’d do is panic about your employment etc with it so you’d never admit it. The reports put into them must of been along similar lines and the cctv has to of seen something corroborating it or they wouldn’t of banned them indefinitely. 

[Bazzas right boot]

How deranged must you be to get that angry at a Hamilton game that you end up like that.

 

**** me.

 

I enjoy the football ( in general) , enjoy matchday. Some folk must just go just to release their pent up bile and hate that they have against everyone and society.

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Self policing and strict liability,  way to go 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

How deranged must you be to get that angry at a Hamilton game that you end up like that.

 

**** me.

 

I enjoy the football ( in general) , enjoy matchday. Some folk must just go just to release their pent up bile and hate that they have against everyone and society.

 

 

 

I know what you mean. If Hearts win I'm happy, if we lose I'm disappointed, either way I just go and get on with the rest of my life. I don't get why people end up foaming at the mouth over a result. 

[upgotheheads]

28 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

The conflict though is we’ve banned them for x , no yu hav neee you banned us for not liking Levein. 

 

First thing you’d do is panic about your employment etc with it so you’d never admit it. The reports put into them must of been along similar lines and the cctv has to of seen something corroborating it or they wouldn’t of banned them indefinitely. 

 

?

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

?

? What

[Sagan]

Can someone make a decent thread cos this is just boring now. 

[upgotheheads]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

? What

 

The **** did your post actually mean? How about a translation.

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, Sagan said:

Can someone make a decent thread cos this is just boring now. 

 

Don't you like bigots and racists being punted then ?

 

Makes good reading to me. 

[doctor jambo]

54 minutes ago, farin said:

 

I know the access regs & right of refusal  at football grounds perfectly well. This isn’t about hearts not needing a reason to ban them. Hearts have given them a reason, my point is have they the proof to substantiate it. Because conflicting reports are coming out as to why they are getting banned. 

 

 

 

Presumably called Levein a white , atheist 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

56 minutes ago, farin said:

 

I know the access regs & right of refusal  at football grounds perfectly well. This isn’t about hearts not needing a reason to ban them. Hearts have given them a reason, my point is have they the proof to substantiate it. Because conflicting reports are coming out as to why they are getting banned. 

 

 

 

 

What is "proof" to you? They obviously have enough proof or they wouldn't have banned them. Even if "all" they have is eye witness accounts that's still proof, especially if there are corroberating accounts from different people, maybe even with camera phone recordings. Even if not, eye witness testimony is used all the time. What do you do when you are in a car crash? You run round getting the details of everyone who saw it don't you? 

 

The police may need more than eye witness accounts to get some sort of conviction if it goes that far but Hearts are well within their rights to use them to enforce their own policies, which are very clear - https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/unacceptable-conduct-policy

[Sagan]

2 minutes ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

Don't you like bigots and racists being punted then ?

 

Makes good reading to me. 

 

They've been punted. The excitement is over. 

They're probably getting off on all the attention now. 

[sadj]

13 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

The **** did your post actually mean? How about a translation.

Lol sorry i was running when i wrote it.

 

the poster i replied to said there were conflicting reports.

 

hearts - sectarian and racist behaviour/language

 

two guys - cause we said levein out

 

if they have been racist or sectarian they won’t admit it as it would be scrutinised by workplaces etc. Lot of companies would suspend you then sack you for it. Would you admit it or deny it? 

 

The reports Hearts say they received have to have been similar or you’d not look too hard into it. From there the cctv evidence has to of corroborated the reports or they wouldn’t of banned them indefinitely. 

 

The people sticking up for them on twitter include quite a few who are banned from Tynecastle aswell. Which again will lend some strength to any suggestions they are guilty in some people’s minds.

 

I’m sure the security officer or club would take advice from the police on the matter before making a decision also. 

 

Edit: someone posted the guidelines and essentially how the acts punishment will be determined on a sliding scale and they will work with Police Scotland to determine this

Edited September 13, 2019 by sadj

[alwaysthereinspirit]

1 hour ago, Sexton Hardcastle said:

There’s something really ironic about the twitter hertz calling budge ‘Hitler’.

 

Not a brain amongst them.

A brain? A brain cell would be a start.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Has the player been named?

[Bull's-eye]

1 minute ago, Sagan said:

 

They've been punted. The excitement is over. 

They're probably getting off on all the attention now. 

 

The more that it's publicised the better as far as I'm concerned. Firstly, might put off some of the Neanderthals from attending in the 1st place and secondly, the  numbskulls now  know the rules, misbehave and goodbye.

 

This is a heart warming thread.

[Sagan]

10 minutes ago, sadj said:

Lol sorry i was running when i wrote it.

 

 

Got to pull you up on that one like lol

You were running and posting on here at the same time? 

WTF is that all about haha. 

Nut, don't believe you. 

 

Aww shit.... TREADMILL

That can be believed. 

 

I prefer youtube videos. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Sagan